Support NeoGAF

[JDSN]

Trying to spin this into a conversation about gang dynamics like some bullshit HBO documentary in the first page failed, so did talking about broken windows, so did bringing up the twisted ghost of MLK as a last resort.

But now im listening to Through The fire and flames, so I guess thats a cool new method of distraction that people can use in the future.

 

[bishoptl]

I understand my wrong, and understand that there will most likely be repercussions.

No, go enjoy your concert in peace. It's what MLK would have wanted.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

lol..

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Dragonforce

This place never ceases to surprise me.

they sound super awesome

 

[Gordon Shumway]

they sound super awesome

Yeah..exactly what I found when I looked them up. 👌

 

[danm999]

And all people will want to talk about is the mild property damage.

Shows you where some peoples priorities are. Pretty disgusting, isn't it.

Broken windows trump broken backs. Respectability politics. Comments on gang culture.

All while public bodies are fucking brazenly murdering people.

 

[jay23]

When people inside the movement discourage property damage, it's because they know the power-brokers in society would rather talk about the property damage than the violence and state oppression against blacks. They know that the politically-dominant part of the community uses discourse about vandalism in order to undermine the larger social movement, by undermining the ability for whites to empathize with blacks.

In no way are some smashed windows an equivalent concern to the issues that African-Americans have to deal with. But when people focus on that, they lose the ability to see the African-American struggle as a morally viable movement, because they get caught in stereotypes about blacks being violent or irrational. And deciding that the property damage in these incidents is an indefensible outcome of spending a lifetime living under injustice requires you to assume that the perpetrators are either naturally violent or irrational.

How would you not be dissatisfied with normative claims about private property and proper social behaviour if you lived a life where your parents had to tell you how not to get murdered by the police, where you were subject to extra scrutiny and prejudice, had extremely limited economic mobility and educational opportunity, and a government which continually acts against your own interests?

.

 

[roknin]

I'm actually starting to lose track of the stories at this point.

When people inside the movement discourage property damage, it's because they know the power-brokers in society would rather talk about the property damage than the violence and state oppression against blacks. They know that the politically-dominant part of the community uses discourse about vandalism in order to undermine the larger social movement, by undermining the ability for whites to empathize with blacks.

In no way are some smashed windows an equivalent concern to the issues that African-Americans have to deal with. But when people focus on that, they lose the ability to see the African-American struggle as a morally viable movement, because they get caught in stereotypes about blacks being violent or irrational. And deciding that the property damage in these incidents is an indefensible outcome of spending a lifetime living under injustice requires you to assume that the perpetrators are either naturally violent or irrational.

How would you not be dissatisfied with normative claims about private property and proper social behaviour if you lived a life where your parents had to tell you how not to get murdered by the police, where you were subject to extra scrutiny and prejudice, had extremely limited economic mobility and educational opportunity, and a government which continually acts against your own interests?

Perfectly stated. The first sentence in particular fucking nails it.

 

[JCizzle]

I did some thinking last night about the points a lot of people in this thread were making about the focus on destruction of property being victim blaming. I think that makes a lot of sense after reflecting on it. However, the focus on that also brought additional national attention to the issue. Is it ever a good thing?

 

[TTUVAPOR]

This is scary.

No matter what, the violence will go nowhere.

 

[ciridesu]

Pathetic censorship displayed in this thread, banning members such as Ryuelli for literally nothing.

Gray's death sounds sketchy as fuck based on the available evidence and I hope the perpetrators are charged, but it is completely ridiculous how a forum like this completely censors any criticism targeted at the way some people behaved in the protest. Furthermore, I support the protesting movement, but the goal is not to damage and scare people away but to instead attract more people into it and raise awareness, just like in Hong Kong, Ukraine and more. People shouldn't get a free pass in protests and they can be detrimental for the cause for which they are fighting, and no the skin colour doesn't matter in the way the protest is or should be judged. When you have videos like these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fd2Ibw7wrvs , of course you have the right to speak against behaviour like that. The minority of the protesters breaking property and doing stuff like that are criminals and should rightly be accused and frowned upon, to drive them away and instead attract the majority of the society in. At least in my opinion. Again, pathetic censorship.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Joe Giordano, a member of the press, was assaulted by police officers.

But of course, lets worry more about property

 

[PreFire]

Decades later they're still asking why Mookie smashed the window at Sal's instead of why they killed radio Raheem.

Exactly.

It's ridiculous

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Pathetic censorship displayed in this thread, banning members such as Ryuelli for literally nothing.

Gray's death sounds sketchy as fuck based on the available evidence and I hope the perpetrators are charged, but it is completely ridiculous how a forum like this completely censors any criticism targeted at the way some people behaved in the protest. Furthermore, I support the protesting movement, but the goal is not to damage and scare people away but to instead attract more people into it and raise awareness, just like in Hong Kong, Ukraine and more. People shouldn't get a free pass in protests and they can be detrimental for the cause for which they are fighting, and no the skin colour doesn't matter in the way the protest is or should be judged. When you have videos like these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fd2Ibw7wrvs , of course you have the right to speak against behaviour like that. The minority of the protesters breaking property and doing stuff like that are criminals and should rightly be accused and frowned upon, to drive them away and instead attract the majority of the society in. At least in my opinion. Again, pathetic censorship.

Right, because stuff like that isn't happening in Hong Kong. DEFINITELY not in Ukraine either.

Please.

 

[ciridesu]

Right, because stuff like that isn't happening in Hong Kong. DEFINITELY not in Ukraine either.

Please.

Both places succeeded in arranging peaceful protests that amounted to hundreds of thousands of people which further attracted both national and international support while adding political pressure on their respective states. Yeah, they didn't get the revolution they wanted by peaceful means. But getting the majority on your side, international support and adding political pressure to deter drastic behaviour are already big accomplishments achieving changes, and at least in my opinion the organizing members of both movements should be proud.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Both places succeeded in arranging peaceful protests that amounted to hundreds of thousands of people which further attracted both national and international support while adding political pressure on their respective states. Yeah, they didn't get the revolution they wanted by peaceful means. But getting the majority on your side, international support and adding political pressure to deter drastic behaviour are already big accomplishments achieving changes, and at least in my opinion the organizing members of both movements should be proud.

Ding ding ding!

So there's really nothing to talk about.

Americans aren't ready for something like Ukraine, nevermind Egypt.

 

[WickedCobra03]

This is scary.

No matter what, the violence will go nowhere.

oh jeez! Well hopefully it doesn't get too out of hand. It doesn't help the situation and like said before, it causes people and general media to focus on the violence and not at the blight at hand.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Pathetic censorship displayed in this thread, banning members such as Ryuelli for literally nothing.

Gray's death sounds sketchy as fuck based on the available evidence and I hope the perpetrators are charged, but it is completely ridiculous how a forum like this completely censors any criticism targeted at the way some people behaved in the protest. Furthermore, I support the protesting movement, but the goal is not to damage and scare people away but to instead attract more people into it and raise awareness, just like in Hong Kong, Ukraine and more. People shouldn't get a free pass in protests and they can be detrimental for the cause for which they are fighting, and no the skin colour doesn't matter in the way the protest is or should be judged. When you have videos like these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fd2Ibw7wrvs , of course you have the right to speak against behaviour like that. The minority of the protesters breaking property and doing stuff like that are criminals and should rightly be accused and frowned upon, to drive them away and instead attract the majority of the society in. At least in my opinion. Again, pathetic censorship.

You should really take your opinions to a mod, considering what you're doing is frowned on..if I'm not mistaken.

 

[qizah]

When the Bloods and Crips are united, there's something seriously wrong.

Also, lol at DragonForce.

SMH.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

When the Bloods and Crips are united, there's something seriously wrong.

Also, lol at DragonForce.

SMH.

And Kamelot!!

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I've wanted to see this band for nearly seven years, and is the first time I've ever seen anyone in concert. I have never had the opportunity to do so prior to this. Now I have the opportunity, but only if my friend and roommate drove me. I almost lost this from him cancelling on me, and only to rekindle that hope when he changed his mind on cancelling.

I apologize if I am apprehensive when my wish could be put to ruin so close.

I no less understand the rage, I no less understand the hatred, I no less understand the desire for justice, but at this present moment, is it so unnatural for me to have my own interests in mind?

This is the type of BS that the #firstworldproblems meme should be reserved for.

 

[justjohn]

This is not how you protest.. in a sense they are only fueling the fire. Their message would have come across better if it was peaceful. Now people will only look at the negatives with this protest and not actually look at what it was meant for. This is horrible all the way around. But for the victim mostly, his injuries and the injustice might go unresolved because of these troubled people

Troubled people?

 

[entremet]

Rioting and attacking others should not be tolerated.

It's a shame that some knuckleheads use protests to act like idiots.

 

[Saganator]

Angry people who feel like there is no hope for change tend to break to stuff. Not everyone resorts to that, but not everyone grows up in an ideal environment with ideal mental health. This will continue to happen until there is some real change, not just with the justice system, but change which brings thousands or millions out of poverty and into the middle class, where it is much more likely for families to flourish in a more ideal environment.

In a political system where money equals free speech, where a couple billionaires can shamelessly try to buy the presidency, people with out enough free speech will resort to breaking stuff and costing people a lot of free speech. Until free speech does not equal money, the system is fuc... actually, the system is working like a fine oiled machine, doing exactly what it's built to do. The people are fucked until we get a better system.

 

[Verelios]

It's about street cred. Gangs show up to show their hate toward the police. For example, here we had a nice family friendly boxing event, gang bangers showed up because it was others vs cops boxing. Being a gang banger isn't a crime in the US so they take every opportunity to hate on the police, regardless of their gang affiliations.

They didn't do anything bad at the event but there were plenty of annoyed coppers.

Edit: Fuck it, it's not worth it.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Edit: Fuck it, it's not worth it.

It really isn't..lol.

 

[Infinite]

It really isn't..lol.

Not gonna to lie I was on the bus home last night reading this thread and that post made burst out in laughter.

 

[starwarsfan541]

Has Martin O Malley spoken about this?

then again he's probably running for president so maybe not

He's not governor, why should he?

Hogan should get off his ass though (My dislike for the new governors policy is quite intense atm)

 

[Zornack]

Angry people who feel like there is no hope for change tend to break to stuff. Not everyone resorts to that, but not everyone grows up in an ideal environment with ideal mental health. This will continue to happen until there is some real change, not just with the justice system, but change which brings thousands or millions out of poverty and into the middle class, where it is much more likely for families to flourish in a more ideal environment.

In a political system where money equals free speech, where a couple billionaires can shamelessly try to buy the presidency, people with out enough free speech will resort to breaking stuff and costing people a lot of free speech. Until free speech does not equal money, the system is fuc... actually, the system is working like a fine oiled machine, doing exactly what it's built to do. The people are fucked until we get a better system.

No, angry people who see a mob of people that will cloak them from responsibility break stuff. I do not believe the people throwing trash cans, assaulting innocent people and destroying private property believe they are up against the ropes and fighting the good fight however they can. They are bad people who are taking advantage of good people and of a situation.

 

[Robot Pants]

k-dot is already dead.

Hahaha I laughed

 

[Bluekaveli]

Yeah, Bloods and Crips came together to protest.

Tupac was right on "Last Wordz'

 

[Infinite]

No, angry people who see a mob of people that will cloak them from responsibility break stuff. I do not believe the people throwing trash cans, assaulting innocent people and destroying private property believe they are up against the ropes and fighting the good fight however they can. They are bad people who are taking advantage of good people and of a situation.

There is no excuse for the actions of those individuals however rioting is a symptom of a much bigger issue as that post was trying to explain. Essentially as Dr King put it once, it's the unheard trying to be heard. It's a temper tantrum. Understanding that is key to finding solutions to this rioting you're so concerned about.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't view all "rioters" as being under the same banner. There are some people there who are indeed expressing hopelessness and anger. But there re also rioters who are there to capitalize, start trouble, loot, etc. There were multiple people coming to Ferguson with the sole purpose of stealing shit. Are they the minority? Hell no. But they do indeed deserve to be shat on/criticized.

 

[SeanR1221]

There is no excuse for the actions of those individuals however rioting is a symptom of a much bigger issue as that post was trying to explain. Essentially as Dr King put it once, it's the unheard trying to be heard. It's a temper tantrum. Understanding that is key to finding solutions to this rioting you're so concerned about.

That's a really odd analogy to make.

 

[IrishNinja]

Decades later they're still asking why Mookie smashed the window at Sal's instead of why they killed radio Raheem.

...i said goddamn

 

[Rembrandt]

Fuck, I hope this doesn't affect the concert I'm going to on monday night in one way or another.

lol, fuck your concert.

they sound super awesome

Wow. at a loss for words.

 

[Infinite]

lol, fuck your concert.

But Dragonforce dawg

 

[Zornack]

Wow. What constitutes a "bad person" versus a "good person"?

If only empathy was a common human trait...

Good person = peaceful protester, bad person = a person who takes advantage of the crowd of protesters to vandalize businesses and assault innocent people, all while devaluing the protest.

I do not have empathy for people who assault innocent people and destroy local businesses. I do have empathy for a racial minority that lives in fear of murder by police.

 

[Infinite]

Good person = peaceful protester, bad person = a person who takes advantage of the crowd of peaceful protesters to vandalize business and assault innocent people, all while devaluing the peaceful protest.

It's really not that black and white but yeah, it sucks that people are rioting. What are we going to do about it though other than wave our fingers?

 

[PopeReal]

Good person = peaceful protester, bad person = a person who takes advantage of the crowd of peaceful protesters to vandalize business and assault innocent people, all while devaluing the protest.

I do not have empathy for people who assault innocent people and destroying local businesses. I do have empathy for a racial minority that lives in fear of murder by police.

Ah, the protest concern and lecture post.

Example B of why shit is not going to change.

 

[JCizzle]

I don't view all "rioters" as being under the same banner. There are some people there who are indeed expressing hopelessness and anger. But there re also rioters who are there to capitalize, start trouble, loot, etc. There were multiple people coming to Ferguson with the sole purpose of stealing shit. Are they the minority? Hell no. But they do indeed deserve to be shat on/criticized.

Yeah, this is kind of my question. When do you get to question people who are just in it for trouble? Is it fair to do so despite their grievances? How do you recognize the bad apples without also calling the whole movement into question?

Obviously the state hasn't listened to the concerns of the minority. I just don't know if violent protest hurts or hinders the odds of getting change.

 

[sc0la]

And all people will want to talk about is the mild property damage.

Why are they even breaking windows? It's not like the state murdered another innocent man in the street during the course of maintaining the status quo of istitutionalized racism. Let's all relax here!

k-dot is already dead.

Heh. Literally just finished listening to that song before reading this thread.

 

[Zornack]

It's really not that black and white but yeah, it sucks that people are rioting. What are we going to do about it though other than wave our fingers?

I don't think anything needs to be done. Every protest is going to have its bad apples and every large group of people is going to attract more. People shouldn't stop protesting, anyone who waves off the protest because of the minority of rioters (and even that is a bad word, it's not a riot, just a handful of bad people doing bad things within a large group of people doing good things) shouldn't be taken seriously.

I just don't agree with the notion that the 1% of the crowd that does this terrible stuff should be seen as people doing all they can to fight against the system. They are bad people taking advantage of good people.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's really not that black and white but yeah, it sucks that people are rioting. What are we going to do about it though other than wave our fingers?

Actually show up and vote in local elections (like you know, for judges and sheriffs), take over school boards, support black businesses? There are a host of effective ways to respond to injustice by changing policies.

 

[Rembrandt]

Good person = peaceful protester, bad person = a person who takes advantage of the crowd of protesters to vandalize businesses and assault innocent people, all while devaluing the protest.

I do not have empathy for people who assault innocent people and destroy local businesses. I do have empathy for a racial minority that lives in fear of murder by police.

that's incredibly wrong, but okay. there's no point in trying to convince a person that truly believes any and everybody rioting during a time like this is a bad person. that train of thought is sickening and devalues the protest, too. anybody that sees a person rioting and then thinks badly about the entire protest isn't on our side to begin with. people cannot be peaceful forever and they shouldn't be.

Actually show up and vote in local elections (like you know, for judges and sheriffs), take over school boards, support black businesses? There are a host of more effective ways to respond to injustice.

Damn, I can't believe you're the first person to think of that. I wonder why nobody else has ever thought of that? What a radical, new idea.

 

[Zornack]

that's incredibly wrong, but okay. there's no point in trying to convince a person that truly believes any and everybody rioting during a time like this is a bad person. that train of thought is sickening and devalues the protest, too. anybody that sees a person rioting and then thinks badly about the entire protest isn't on our side to begin with. people cannot be peaceful forever and they shouldn't be.

What train of thought is this? When I see bad people do bad things I think badly of the people, not a group they might belong to. I don't think badly of Muslims because of states ruled by Sharia law, I don't think badly of my fellow Jews because of certain actions of Israel and I don't think badly of the protesters because the people commuting felonies. As I wrote above anyone who dismisses the protesters and their cause because of the violent actions of a minority of the crowd should not be taken seriously.

The too-quick-to-kill cops routinely make national news and public opinion is (slowly) changing in regards to America's racist police force. There is literally zero positive outcome from assaulting innocent civilians and destroying private property. There is no excuse for people who take advantage of these protests to commit felonies.

And, just for the record, I don't think of peaceful protesting as solely a group of people silently marching down a street. There are methods of protest that cause public disturbance and raises awareness which do not tread into felonious action.

 

[CSJ]

Ah, the protest concern and lecture post.

Example B of why shit is not going to change.

Oh I guess nobody is ever allowed to air their opinion on this flaw of some society ever again. Sure it's been said every single time, but lets imagine for a moment there's always going to be someone who's not aware of how it's almost a cliche.
Let them, I think it's awful we're just overlooking how some people's livelihood are being threatened but we can sit back on a forum and make fun of those stating the obvious - I mean if something happened to your property, business or person you wouldn't sing the same tune.

There's room for everything, the event that started it all, the actual protests and the effect of it.

 

[Rembrandt]

What train of thought is this? When I see bad people do bad things I think badly of the people, not a group they might belong to. I don't think badly of Muslims because of states ruled by Sharia law, I don't think badly of my fellow Jews because of certain actions of Israel and I don't think badly of the protesters because the people commuting felonies. As I wrote above anyone who dismisses the protesters and their cause because of the violent actions of a minority of the crowd should not be taken seriously.

The too-quick-to-kill cops routinely make national news and public opinion is (slowly) changing in regards to America's racist police force. There is literally zero positive outcome from assaulting innocent civilians and destroying private property. There is no excuse for people who take advantage of these protests to commit felonies.

And, just for the record, I don't think of peaceful protesting as solely a group of people silently marching down a street. There are methods of protest that cause public disturbance and raises awareness which do not tread into felonious action.

no, it's not.

 

[GK86]

Some more pictures, taken from Baltimore Sun. Sorry for the ton of pictures.

 

[Eidan]

no, it's not.

Is there actually polling on this?