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[Corporal.Hicks]

I'm not going to say I regret stepping in your defense when people there were calling you a clown in that Thread, Corporal.Hicks , as that wouldn't be very mature or true to who I am as a person, but I would be lying if I said I don’t now lean toward that opinion myself.

I am not surprised at all to see you completely omitted these from your reconstruction of the events.







As unmasking the situation for the obvious genuine attempt at discovering the truth wouldn't fit with the narrative you're attempting to fabricate.
Or the way you phrased this:



As if, yet that again, I wasn't simply reporting what was available online:



Or that my own framerate assessments on the game, in that same message, turned later on to be completely accurate:



Or that you bring up this chart:



From ResetERA, containing incorrect information such as the game in the mode we were referring to being machine leaning (PSSR) upscaled, or it being locked 60fps:

When other users, playing the game, were already telling you PSSR is not being used in such mode.


No, not at all. Most people would simply recognized this as a good faith mistake caused by incorrect sources:

Combined with analysis on the game screenshots not matching Interlacing issues, not producing Checkerboard artifacts, and not using PSSR.

It wouldn't be different than me calling you a liar for repeating what was contained in that ResetERA chart.

And, as it was told to you already, I was offended because you implied I did this on purpose, to prop up the PS5 Pro version with malicious intent intentionally, when these were my previous post in that same Thread waring people about the version when I, unknowingly, had a glitch that caused incorrect visuals:





Which is something you did again in this Thread when you implied I was harsh with my definition of how Path Tracing runs on PC while favoring the PS5 version, nothing more than a bold-faced lie given my only ever posts on said console version being:





You appear to have a serious issue when it comes to jumping to wrong conclusions, and being obnoxious when faced with it. And now, have done the same for a third time:


At this point I am confident many people would simply abandon their composure.


PS4 Version:

PC Max 4090:

As also obviously depicted in the image above the one you chose..

Every single one of the screenshots I posted, (nothing more than a sample of literal hundreds issues between missing shadows, reflections, shaders, VFX, particles etc.) is made in regards to the original 2016 PS4 version, not PS5 version.

And as for your bizarre persistence when it comes to your issues with Uncharted 4 lighting, there is not much more I could do other than once more exposing them as aimlessly ramblings, as those specific issues have nothing to with the Thread given the situation you described has been addressed by Threat Interactive in the video (time-stamped) in the very first post of this Thread:



And do not represent what rasterized solutions could be ultimately delivering, as already depicted in many other games.

Ultimately, your entire point on the 2016 software created to run on $399 2013 hardware is an absolutely obvious one everyone with an IQ surpassing the single digit threshold knows already, and that I've been saying myself more than once in this very Thread..




So when you reveal yourself as an edgy teenager with statements like this:



I am only confused once more as to what kind of discussion you believe is taking place, considering the only point advanced is that gains RT would bring in selected instances due to the use of lighter and alternative solutions, isn't worth the drastic drop in resolution, framerate, and image quality issues such as reconstruction/denoising artifacts, on the target hardware this Thread is about.

You mentioned Metro Exodus multiple times, but this is the kind of image it produces on PS5:



Reconstruction/denoising mess, shading on tree worthy of PS2 software.

That even pretending the base, crude version of Metro Exodus under the RT implementation being even close to something like Uncharted 4 when it comes to the underlying technical structure and hardware cost due to assets, mechanics, animations, to begin with.. or that 9 out 10 random people wouldn't all pick PS4 Uncharted 4 as the better looking game even in spite of RT.

The entire concept, simple enough to be toddler-proof, has been pointed out to you repeatedly and yet somehow still hasn't landed.
Would you rather play something at a shimmering/noisy/artifacty (often around 800p internal) software with RT, or something like an evolved 2025 version of 2016 PS4 Uncharted 4/Lost Legacy at native 4K 60fps and 1440p 120fps?

Because it's as simple as that. And:

"Yeah, I'd take the much better resolution, IQ, framerate and clean visuals looking often absolutely incredible still as you clearly have shown multiple times, artists and competent people created over what Alan Wake 2, Wukong, Jedi Survivor or Outlaws delivered on the PS5 I'm playing on, because I'm fucking anal bastard that loves to put his 2.5K PC and IQ at the center of virtually every single post here, and I could never stand such glaring compromises when playing on this console"

Is the only possible answer here, and happens to immediately put an end to the argument.


And SVOGI, not being RT or PT, completely lands into my own point about what would be possible to achieve in absence of heavier alternatives provided by RT and PT..

Dude, my screenshots from that coversation clearly prove that you misinformed people about resolution situation in RE4R on the PS5Pro, and you even apologised me for that.

You said yourself that you misinformed me. Now you want to say that you did not and said all of this? Dude, you are worst than I thought.

As for this Uncharted 4 argument, I showed what's the difference between the PS4Pro version and PRO and the PS4 version and reflections look exactly the same. Your screenshot was obviously from the PS5 version.

I did not need anyone to defend me. You arnt a clown, because clowns are funny and can be considered entertaining, you however you are a slick liar that only misinform people and post platform war posts between PS and PC platform. I will no longer waste my time on you, fool.

 

[Vick]

Now you want to say that you did not and said all of this? Dude, you are worst than I thought.

I confess I'm quite puzzled as to how your brain could have possibly landed on this extremely bizarre conclusion, after reading these very clearly written messages for everyone to see:

I thought that person bringing up the RE4 resolution ordeal as a sort of low blow, when I was simply going off of informations read around:

And pixel counts on screenshots that same person described as:

And that ultimately settled only due to something I personally brought up as an indication the game was probably Interlaced instead:

I am not surprised at all to see you completely omitted these from your reconstruction of the events.

As unmasking the situation for the obvious genuine attempt at discovering the truth wouldn't fit with the narrative you're attempting to fabricate.
Or the way you phrased this:

As if, yet that again, I wasn't simply reporting what was available online:



Or that my own framerate assessments on the game, in that same message, turned later on to be completely accurate:

Or that you bring up this chart:

From ResetERA, containing incorrect information such as the game in the mode we were referring to being machine leaning (PSSR) upscaled, or it being locked 60fps:

When other users, playing the game, were already telling you PSSR is not being used in such mode.


No, not at all. Most people would simply recognized this as a good faith mistake caused by incorrect sources:

Combined with analysis on the game screenshots not matching Interlacing issues, not producing Checkerboard artifacts, and not using PSSR.

It wouldn't be different than me calling you a liar for repeating what was contained in that ResetERA chart.

And, as it was told to you already, I was offended because you implied I did this on purpose, to prop up the PS5 Pro version with malicious intent intentionally, when these were my previous post in that same Thread waring people about the version when I, unknowingly, had a glitch that caused incorrect visuals:

But I suspect there's some more serious underlying issues going on, that I don't think would be appropriate nor cool to further aggravate.

Your screenshot was obviously from the PS5 version.

PS4 version:

Video proof time-stamped (already posted, but here it is once again for impaired folks):




PC version Maxed Out on a 4090:

Video proof time-stamped (already posted, but here it is once again for impaired folks):



You are quite literally the only person here misleading people. In regards to both inaccurate conclusions or implications about other users, and incorrect informations such as this above.

you however you are a slick liar that only misinform people and post platform war posts between PS and PC platform. I will no longer waste my time on you, fool.

Indeed, I even received a warning once for dismissing PS5 in favor of PC. Truly amusing after these examples posted within this very Thread..

Cyberpunk on a 4090 PT is a different game altogether.



If you know what to look for, there's just no going back. You can push it even to this kind of absurd extents you'll only see next-gen:



There's countless games with little to no difference with PC, some even better on Pro (and few even way better like DMC5 or Dead Rising Deluxe), but you picked a game that's a literal generation apart.

It was never going to get even close to path traced PC version anyway.

Maybe they'll release a free "Next-Gen Update" on PS6 along with the native release.

What could they even do on Pro, adding those subtle RT shadows at 60fps? Bring another, out of many, RT feature at 30fps, providing something still years behind the full package that requires insane hardware to properly run on?

As long as it offers stuff like Cyberpunk path traced at good framerate and IQ, which ain't even granted on next gen consoles, it's more than worth it. Might even entice devs to push stuff further in a similar fashion in other games.
Every piece of software on Steam and elsewhere is going to benefit automatically from it in a way or another, and it's unquestionably going to show its value clearly once compared with technically advanced games running like absolute ass on consoles for both IQ and performance, while pushing better settings as well; games that are going to be more and more frequent now that the cross-gen phase is over.
Folks might mock the price (and those clowns who made fools of themselves in regards to PS5 Pro), but surely not what this is thing is going to do.

This would maked it the fourth time in a row you make emotional, blind assumptions turned out incorrect.
At this point I believe I should be proud of the exemplary patience and constraint I've displayed throught this embarrassing mess, but as previously stated I suspect significant impediments taking place that would make self-gratification inappropriate.

I will no longer waste my time on you, fool.

And I couldn't possibly be more glad to read this.

Vick the pc port have same issues as ps5 remaster correct ?

Actually worse at times.

Although Iron Galaxy at least ultimately fixed Nadine's hair, which is an actually extremely welcome improvement.
Still not quite as good as the original, as sometimes you can notice a little seam, but extremely welcomed nonetheless.

SVOGI is raytracing. Software raytracing no different than Lumen.

And has no cost comparable to hardware RT or PT, and can run on hardware without dedicated RT, not much different from Mafia: Definitive Edition GI solution on Xbox One/PS4.
Which still lands well within the point I was making about what is possible to deliver in 2025 when it comes to much cheaper alternatives to RT and PT, and what Threat Interactive is discussing in the video.

 

[Mister Wolf]

And has no cost comparable to hardware RT or PT, and can run on hardware without dedicated RT, not much different from Mafia: Definitive Edition GI solution on Xbox One/PS4.
Which still lands well within the point I was making about what is possible to deliver in 2025 when it comes to much cheaper alternatives to RT and PT, and what Threat Interactive is discussing in the video.

We will find out just how performant SVOGI is when Kingdom Come 2 releases. I think you're in for a rude awakeniing on that "60 fps" mode.

 

[Vick]

We will find out just how performant SVOGI is when Kingdom Come 2 releases. I think you're in for a rude awakeniing on that "60 fps" mode.

Which given it's nature of lighter alternative, would only further reinforce the point of the entire Thread..

 

[rofif]

I confess I'm quite puzzled as to how your brain could have possibly landed on this extremely bizarre conclusion, after reading these very clearly written messages for everyone to see:



But I suspect there's some more serious underlying issues going on, that I don't think would be appropriate nor cool to further aggravate.


PS4 version:

Video proof time-stamped (already posted, but here it is once again for impaired folks):




PC version Maxed Out on a 4090:

Video proof time-stamped (already posted, but here it is once again for impaired folks):



You are quite literally the only person here misleading people. In regards to both inaccurate conclusions or implications about other users, and incorrect informations such as this above.


Indeed, I even received a warning once for dismissing PS5 in favor of PC. Truly amusing after these examples posted within this very Thread..






This would maked it the fourth time in a row you make emotional, blind assumptions turned out incorrect.
At this point I believe I should be proud of the exemplary patience and constraint I've displayed throught this embarrassing mess, but as previously stated I suspect significant impediments taking place that would make self-gratification inappropriate.


And I couldn't possibly be more glad to read this.


Actually worse at times.

Although Iron Galaxy at least ultimately fixed Nadine's hair, which is an actually extremely welcome improvement.
Still not quite as good as the original, as sometimes you can notice a little seam, but extremely welcomed nonetheless.


And has no cost comparable to hardware RT or PT, and can run on hardware without dedicated RT, not much different from Mafia: Definitive Edition GI solution on Xbox One/PS4.
Which still lands well within the point I was making about what is possible to deliver in 2025 when it comes to much cheaper alternatives to RT and PT, and what Threat Interactive is discussing in the video.

I am really surprised pc port is a different branch than remaster. Fascinating.
Yeah, Nadine hair is trash in remaster but it is what it is.

We will find out just how performant SVOGI is when Kingdom Come 2 releases. I think you're in for a rude awakeniing on that "60 fps" mode.

exactly!
So maybe no rt solution will provide excellent results which is what this whole thread is all about.

 

[rofif]

yeah.... more on the topic:

And they don't even use the best examples like:
(my shots from ps5 remaster)

 

[Vick]

Compared to what we see now, Indy is probably going to show a proper generational leap in a few days once Path Tracing gets added. Should look absolutely insane.

This is funny though, especially given the RT GI at play..

 

[Darkness_Arises]

Compared to what we see now, Indy is probably going to show a proper generational leap in a few days once Path Tracing gets added. Should look absolutely insane.

This is funny though, especially given the RT GI at play..

This looks horrible. The skin shading looks worse than UC3 on PS3. I wonder whether the guys who were posting cherry picked shots of UC4 and TLOU will comment on this stuff in *gasp* an RTGI game. If your game is going to butcher the res and framerate on console for the sake of 'consistent lighting', it should atleast look aesthetically pleasing, consistently.

Regardless of how consistent the lighting is, I find Metro Exodus to be really ugly. Currently I am playing through Infamous Second Son on PS5, in which I am sure you can find instances of lacking shadows, bounce lighting, reflection, physically unreal contrast, etc. But if I asked a layman to compare ISS and ME running on PS5, they would most likely say that ISS is the next gen game. This obsession with simulating the real behaviour of light is just wasteful of resources and doesn't result in an aesthetically better game. On console, it also seems to butcher the resolution and halve the framerate so that everything looks like a mushy soup. Path tracing and RT techniques make sense on a PC with 4090, they should be sparingly implemented on consoles without sacrificing IQ or motion clarity.

 

[mrqs]

This became the 'Uncharted 4 Appreciation Thread' and I love it.

 

[BlownUpRich]

Consoles should've stuck with 30 FPS like they always used to, we wouldn't have faced MOST of these problems had developers only focused on delivering 30 FPS experiences, when you wanna add 60 FPS as an option, there you have it, you have successfully downgraded the game's baseline graphics, world simulations & overall complexity.

Let PC do this stuff, not consoles, but oooh no no no, people want 60 FPS with next-gen visuals AND Ray Tracing, this is inconceivable, it cannot be done. Not everyone is Insomniac (even them haven't delivered fully next-gen games yet, but they're the closest), with 60 FPS, you are literally HALVING the rendering budget & CPU tasks, this is a catastrophic downgrade.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

Consoles should've stuck with 30 FPS like they always used to, we wouldn't have faced MOST of these problems had developers only focused on delivering 30 FPS experiences, when you wanna add 60 FPS as an option, there you have it, you have successfully downgraded the game's baseline graphics, world simulations & overall complexity.

Let PC do this stuff, not consoles, but oooh no no no, people want 60 FPS with next-gen visuals AND Ray Tracing, this is inconceivable, it cannot be done. Not everyone is Insomniac (even them haven't delivered fully next-gen games yet, but they're the closest), with 60 FPS, you are literally HALVING the rendering budget & CPU tasks, this is a catastrophic downgrade.

Nope, currently playing through ISS at 4K 60 fps and it more than trades punches with all those latest games with next-gen visuals. Looks much better than ugly ass RTGI games like Metro. Devs should code to the strength of consoles and prioritize 60 fps with atleast 1440p base resolution.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

So Metro Exodus is now considered ugly, a game that uses dynamic GI, while games like Uncharted 4 are so beautiful to look at despite using old and flat looking raster lighting, that make character models look like this:

I feel obliged to show the ugly lighting in Metro exodus. I will show screenshots from the original version (running at 4K TAA native), not the enhanced edition, because this "improved" version has washed out blacks and generally looks much worse IMO.

RT GI vs raster

Thanks to RT GI objects and characters in metro exodus game are well grounded into the scene. Maybe for some people these are some small differences, but I studied the rules of light and use that knowledge in my daily work, so I'm absolutely blown away that we are finally seeing such realism in games.

As for Uncharted 4 graphics, since certain individual believes that the PC version looks much worse compared to the PS4 version, so I decided to replay the PS4 version once again after so many years and see if I can really notice these huge downgrades.

PS4Pro

PC

PS4Pro

PC

PS4Pro

PC

PS4Pro

PC

PS4Pro

PC

PS4Pro

PC

Guys, please feel free to decide for yourself which version looks better. I'm not going to say what I think, because certain individual can be triggered and commit suicide .

I can only say that it's VERY EASY to find similar "cherry picked" locations in both the PC and PS4Pro versions. If someone has the knowledge of lighting and can see the light (or should I say the lack of it) in the scene, similar spots in this game can be found every couple of seconds, at least during gameplay, because in the cutscenes ND lighting artists used many gimmicks to make the lighting look more realistic.

 

[Vick]

This looks horrible. The skin shading looks worse than UC3 on PS3.

I actually am a big fan of Indiana Jones skin shading as there's extensive use of SSS, it's the lighting in that sequence in particular looking abysmal.
I mean, these are from the DF PC version video using a RT GI where even Low is considerably better than console version.. look out of the window.

Imagine what would be possible to find while cherry picking and purposely looking for flaws and bad looking spots in the console version..

I wonder whether the guys who were posting cherry picked shots of UC4 and TLOU will comment on this stuff in *gasp* an RTGI game.

Considering the same person who said some of these screenshots (not the game, the screenshots themselves) and those Gif posted portraying PS8 visuals look "good" also said the current non-PT version of Indiana Jones looks "spectacular"..

Or that the same clown that just liked a post calling me a liar (when there's two straight lies within that very same post he liked) claimed these same Gifs only look good, again, "good", because they hide flaws and that the native 4K 60fps or 1440p 120fps HDR source would look worse..

Spoiler: PS8 Game

You can rest assured about the high chance of whatever they say being laughable material.

Nope, currently playing through ISS at 4K 60 fps and it more than trades punches with all those latest games with next-gen visuals. Looks much better than ugly ass RTGI games like Metro. Devs should code to the strength of consoles and prioritize 60 fps with atleast 1440p base resolution.

I think next ND game could ideally provide a respectful 1440p 60fps while delivering a "next-gen" experience granted by the implementation of RT reflections and RT shadows.
Reflections because no matter how much care you put into your cubemaps there are always going to be places looking dated, and at the end of the day whenever there's no water ripples hiding flaws there's just no comparison with RT reflections on large bodies, not to mention the amount of precious time saved.
And shadows because I've just tried Part II in Pro mode and those broken shadows are straight out of a PS3 game. Worse than Indiana Jones.
ND proved they can implement an equivalent of PCSS even on PS4, but ND shadows are just too inconsistent from level to level because they customize them based on the current load, a simple full RT shadows implementation across the whole game would do wonders.

And that's really it, RT Reflections and RT shadows to perfect their usual pipeline, hopefully with a proper solution when it comes to polygonal density at least visually close to nanite.
They absolutely don't need RT GI in the slightest in absence of dynamic time of day, and I've always loved their AO and dynamic capsule AO.
Just a lot of care when it comes to characters occlusion and self-shadowing and we're done.

This being said, they've declared they're going to develop their next games with PC ports in mind.. so I can't say I'm optimistic about what's really going to happen.

 

[Gaiff]

Vick

Or that the same clown that just liked a post calling me a liar (when there's two straight lies within that very same post he liked) claimed these same Gifs only look good, again, "good", because they hide flaws and that the native 4K 60fps or 1440p 120fps HDR source would look worse..

Are you talking about SlimySnake 's post? Because I liked it too, but not because he called you a liar. I just wholeheartedly agree with him when he says people post gifs of older (or even recent) games, ignoring that them being so small mitigates or eliminates the source resolution's problems. This has been a thing since perhaps the PS360 era and I always found it laughable and dishonest. I don't think you do that though. I didn't look much at the gifs and posts in this thread. However, I did notice the Uncharted 4 talk. Not sure where the discussion currently is at, but I wouldn't use this game as a highlight for last-gen lighting. It's insanely inconsistent and the outdoor sections look mostly awful in terms of lighting. Even back then, I thought the game looked extremely rough in many instances, but people insisted on posting those cutscene screenshots that were not representative of the game at all. No idea if that's what you guys are even talking about, but in the spirit of the thread (that I find disingenuous because of that youtuber anyway), I comment on that.

 

[Bojji]

I have uncharted PS5 version installed and I don't see how it's comparable to best current gen games. It's clearly last gen game in both assets and lighting.

Outside few handcrafted areas (like endgame "house") lighting in uncharted is really nothing special.

Game was super impressive in 2016, let's leave it like that.

 

[Vick]

Vick
Are you talking about SlimySnake 's post? Because I liked it too, but not because he called you a liar.

Well no, I referred to the post on top of this page calling me both a liar, and platform warrior because I posted relevant Uncharted 4 comparisons regarding the awful version Iron Galaxy delivered he was using as reference.

And speaking of, how absolutely hysterical it is that he couldn't even post 7 of his own comparisons without showing some of those downgrades?

Or that even one of his examples of bad character lighting looks still a little better integrated in the original?

As for the Gif argument, it is for sure the case when it comes to 720p FXAA/MSAA x2 games from the PS3/360 era, or even Driveclub due to AA, but surely not when it comes to 1440p using AA methods that DF at the time referred to as best IQ they've ever seen on console, and were puzzled at how was even achieved.

Do you really believe this Gif:

Looks better than how this exact sequence looked while I was playing it in 1440p and 60fps, plus HDR?

Or this one:

Or this:

Or a single one of any I've posted? Be honest mate.

I didn't look much at the gifs and posts in this thread. However, I did notice the Uncharted 4 talk though.

Well, you missed out big time honestly. I see you just called in another Thread Indiana Jones a PS4 looking game, maybe you wouldn't even have after seeing the best examples of what that gen delivered. Kinda joking here, but not even that much.

Not sure where the discussion currently is at, but I wouldn't use this game as a highlight for last-gen lighting. It's insanely inconsistent and the outdoor sections look mostly awful in terms of lighting. Even back then, I thought the game looked extremely rough in many instances, but people insisted on posting those cutscene screenshots that were not representative of the game at all.

Not sure how much you would care, but given you tagged me personally here's what has been posted by me.. and I refer to the middle portion where I quote my analysis on U4 while calling it "The most inconsistent game I've ever played".

No idea if that's what you guys are even talking about, but in the spirit of the thread (that I find disingenuous because of that youtuber anyway), I comment on that.

We are simply posting best examples of what what possible to deliver in 2016-2017 on $399 2013 hardware, as an indication of what could be possible to deliver today at several times the resolution and framerate.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Vick


Are you talking about SlimySnake 's post? Not sure where the discussion currently is at, but I wouldn't use this game as a highlight for last-gen lighting. It's insanely inconsistent and the outdoor sections look mostly awful in terms of lighting. Even back then, I thought the game looked extremely rough in many instances, but people insisted on posting those cutscene screenshots that were not representative of the game at all. No idea if that's what you guys are even talking about, but in the spirit of the thread (that I find disingenuous because of that youtuber anyway), I comment on that.

I really thought I would not have to return to this discussion about Vick, but since he really can't help himself from taking shots at me I now have to defend myself.

I posted similar opinion to yours about Uncharted 4 graphics and said that the lighting in this game looks clearly dated. Vick loves this game so much that my honest opinion triggered him. Vick believes that the lighting in Uncharted 4 still looks better than most modern games, including games that use RT .

There was a time when Vick was actually very nice to me. However, this was only because I posted positive comments/opinions about the PS5Pro unlike most PC gamers, therefore he liked to use my quotes in his arguments with PC gamers (because not many gamers who own high-end PCs say positive things about the PS5Pro). Unfortunately, he showed his true character when I finally started to disagree with him.

It all started with his misinformation about the resolution of RE4Remake on the PS5Pro. He said this game on the PS5Pro runs at 4K NATIVE with hair and strands. He even added that the game runs at 79fps in very intensive village section. Here's my post where I linked his comments

Analysis - [Threat Interactive] Dynamic lightning was better nine year ago | A warning about 9th gen neglect.

I'm glad you posted that vid rofif. We can all agree now baked lighting looks dated. Even in its best examples. Thankfully Epic and other developers having pushed real time lighting tech forward. That open world level in Uncharted 4 looks really off. At times it can look great but you can see...

www.neogaf.com

I knew imediately something wasnt right, becasue his claims were simply unrealistic. On PC you need RTX4070tiSuper to run this game at such demanding settings. I couldnt believe that the PS5Pro's specs were as strong, so I started my own research and quickly found evidence to prove what I suspected. For example PS5 vs PS5Pro comparison in RE4Remake showed 43% relative difference, so there was only 2% of power left to increase the number of rendered pixels by the factor of two times.

Also various well known YT experts said the RE4Remake on the base PS5 run at 4K interlaced, so it was very likey that the PS5Pro might run at the same resolution. Based on these facts I told Vick politely (because back then I was still respecting him given our post history) that it seems that the game does not run at 4K native, as he want people to believe. He were however still offended despite my good intentions and started being rude towards me. He was also unwilling to addmit to his missinformation, so he started posting his pixel counts just to prove he was right after all. He said that if the RE4Remake were really rendered at a lower resolution, the internal aliasing would look different, yet his pixel counts shows 4K. At one point he asked me to post screenshots between interlaced and normal mode, and then he finally realised how wrong he was and decided to stop arguing with me because it was a lost battle. He even admitted that he had misinformed me and apologised:

I guess it really settles it then, and virtually confirms a kind of interlacing being used on PS5Pro, just at higher resolution than the examples posted and probably carefully tailored around the console. I owe you an opology, and to the other users being missinformed by my claim of RE4 being native 4K.

I really thought that was a sincere apology, but I was wrong.

Here in this thread we started talking about different topic (he was extremely impressed with Uncharted 4 graphics, while I wasnt) and my opinion triggered him so much, that he returned to our argument saying that I had irritated him with the previous discussion. His missinformation started our argument, yet he blamed me for his irritation .

As for our Uncharted argument I showed him how bad this game can look during gameplay (because usually uncharted 4 fans post cutscene screenshots) and that was the start of a series of rude comments directed at me.

He accused me of cherry-picking bad screenshots and doing all sorts of manipulation just to avoid admitting that his precious "Uncharted 4" game could look so old.

I'm tired of arguing with Vick because he keeps disrespecting me even when I try to be nice to him given what he said and done. He also keep making more and more absurd claims. For example, I saw him posting screenshots of Uncharted Collection (PS4) telling people that's how good textures looked on the original PS3 versions.

Uncharted collection have very high texture quality even by PS4 standards. I found exactly the same tree that Vick shows people in his last screenshot, but the tree texture on the PS3 version is nowhere near as sharp compared to the PS4.

I'm not sure if there's a point arguing with Vick, because he can express an opinion one minute and claim he never said it later on. What's more it seems more and more people in this thread defend him (one guy even claimed that the lighting in Metro Exodus RT GI looks ugly). If people want to believe that games like Uncharted 4 have better lighting than Metro Exodus with RT GI then I am ready to surrender, because I do not want to argue with such delusional people who obviously know nothing about the rules of light and cannot see flat lighting even when shown countless examples.

PS4pro screenshot, not "downgraded" PC version, yet still we see the same ugly (flat) lighting.

 

[rofif]

I really thought I would not have to return to this discussion about Vick, but since he really can't help himself from taking shots at me I now have to defend myself.

I posted similar opinion to yours about Uncharted 4 graphics and said that the lighting in this game looks clearly dated. Vick loves this game so much that my honest opinion triggered him. Vick believes that the lighting in Uncharted 4 still looks better than most modern games, including games that use RT .

There was a time when Vick was actually very nice to me. However, this was only because I posted positive comments/opinions about the PS5Pro unlike most PC gamers, therefore he liked to use my quotes in his arguments with PC gamers (because not many gamers who own high-end PCs say positive things about the PS5Pro). Unfortunately, he showed his true character when I finally started to disagree with him.

It all started with his misinformation about the resolution of RE4Remake on the PS5Pro. He said this game on the PS5Pro runs at 4K NATIVE with hair and strands. He even added that the game runs at 79fps in very intensive village section. Here's my post where I linked his comments

Analysis - [Threat Interactive] Dynamic lightning was better nine year ago | A warning about 9th gen neglect.

I'm glad you posted that vid rofif. We can all agree now baked lighting looks dated. Even in its best examples. Thankfully Epic and other developers having pushed real time lighting tech forward. That open world level in Uncharted 4 looks really off. At times it can look great but you can see...

www.neogaf.com

I knew imediately something wasnt right, becasue his claims were simply unrealistic. On PC you need RTX4070tiSuper to run this game at such demanding settings. I couldnt believe that the PS5Pro's specs were as strong, so I started my own research and quickly found evidence to prove what I suspected. For example PS5 vs PS5Pro comparison in RE4Remake showed 43% relative difference, so there was only 2% of power left to increase the number of rendered pixels by the factor of two times.

Also various well known YT experts said the RE4Remake on the base PS5 run at 4K interlaced, so it was very likey that the PS5Pro might run at the same resolution. Based on these facts I told Vick politely (because back then I was still respecting him given our post history) that it seems that the game does not run at 4K native, as he want people to believe. He were however still offended despite my good intentions and started being rude towards me. He was also unwilling to addmit to his missinformation, so he started posting his pixel counts just to prove he was right after all. He said that if the RE4Remake were really rendered at a lower resolution, the internal aliasing would look different, yet his pixel counts shows 4K. At one point he asked me to post screenshots between interlaced and normal mode, and then he finally realised how wrong he was and decided to stop arguing with me because it was a lost battle. He even admitted that he had misinformed me and apologised:



I really thought that was a sincere apology, but I was wrong.

Here in this thread we started talking about different topic (he was extremely impressed with Uncharted 4 graphics, while I wasnt) and my opinion triggered him so much, that he returned to our argument saying that I had irritated him with the previous discussion. His missinformation started our argument, yet he blamed me for his irritation .

As for our Uncharted argument I showed him how bad this game can look during gameplay (because usually uncharted 4 fans post cutscene screenshots) and that was the start of a series of rude comments directed at me.

He accused me of cherry-picking bad screenshots and doing all sorts of manipulation just to avoid admitting that his precious "Uncharted 4" game could look so old.

I'm tired of arguing with Vick because he keeps disrespecting me even when I try to be nice to him given what he said and done. He also keep making more and more absurd claims. For example, I saw him posting screenshots of Uncharted Collection (PS4) telling people that's how good textures looked on the original PS3 versions.

Uncharted collection have very high texture quality even by PS4 standards. I found exactly the same tree that Vick shows people in his last screenshot, but the tree texture on the PS3 version is nowhere near as sharp compared to the PS4.

I'm not sure if there's a point arguing with Vick, because he can express an opinion one minute and claim he never said it later on. What's more it seems more and more people in this thread defend him (one guy even claimed that the lighting in Metro Exodus RT GI looks ugly). If people want to believe that games like Uncharted 4 have better lighting than Metro Exodus with RT GI then I am ready to surrender, because I do not want to argue with such delusional people who obviously know nothing about the rules of light and cannot see flat lighting even when shown countless examples.

PS4pro screenshot, not "downgraded" PC version, yet still we see the same ugly (flat) lighting.

you view neogaf in light theme.

/s

On a more serious note - the fact that we are arguing about RE4 remake being 4k or not clearly is a good thing because the image quality is so good, so BOTH SIDES WIN HERE.
It's a good conflict to have. And yeah, it runs better than on my 3080 and doesn't crash like my 10gb card does with rt.
And as for UC4, idk what you guys are hearing but all vick seems to be saying is that it is remarkably great solution back from 2016 and they did a ton of stuff with it that can rival nowadays graphics.
If you took UC4/tlou2 and remade it with nowadays tech and assets quality but keeping the smart solutions instead of drenching it in RT, I still do believe it would be a good idea.
So on this I support Vick. But he also states many times in this thread that he likes RT and it would fix some problems he have with those games. It's just not a golden bullet yet. Not with it's performance and image quality (often too much noise and low res).

Keep in mind what this thread was about. last gen was very different. It was probably the last time devs truly coded to the metal and overachieved for the system they developed for.

 

[simpatico]

Once we get through the ray tracing craze, we will agree that stylized lighting is always superior to natural lighting. Just because you can cheat and make it work for you. The worst offenders are the modern games with mid global illumination, and the devs forgo most if not all baked lighting and everything looks flat.

 

[Vick]

Outside few handcrafted areas (like endgame "house") lighting in uncharted is really nothing special.

Not going to post those countless Gif outdoor scenes again, as the point was already made multiple times through the Thread.. but in vast majority of current gen games the square below would be completely black.

As for that deranged individual that just posted a few posts above me, whose repeated attempts to rewrite history and accusations immediately crumble before him in a matter of single posts, who apparently isn't aware everyone reading the Thread from page 1 can pin-point exactly when and why the friction happened, who is the real misleader, and who should probably stop posting altogether for the community's good..

Who had the guts of incorrectly accusing me fourth different times, and because he can't apparently possibly help himself, he really just had to go with the fifth now..

PS4 1080p native:

PS3 720p MLAA:

One is a fresh .png uncompressed capture from PS5 I made this year, the other is a +10 years old .jpg from Gear Nuke, reposted a billion times..

I once apologized, in that occasion he keeps shamelessly bringing up, even though it was a genuine good faith mistake as HeWhoWalks , FUBARx89 , Gaiff , rofif and everyone else in that discussion can attest, and if we really want to be completely honest, at the moment isn't even confirmed as being wrong given the Interlaced RE4 screenshots looked nowhere near as clean as the Pro footage, as the person himself even admitted.. but I still apologized, because that's what a man does.

He instead lied about me 5 times, always acted petty when faced with proof, mislead people multiple times within this exact Thread, and instead of apologizing he's making suicide jokes about me, keeps attempting to provide altered versions of events page after page, and whose pestering is only ruining the Thread..

That's exactly the kind of tier of user, but especially person, he revealed to be. And no amount of shameless gaslighting (finally a proper use of this awful word) is ever going to change this.

And as for UC4, idk what you guys are hearing but all vick seems to be saying is that it is remarkably great solution back from 2016 and they did a ton of stuff with it that can rival nowadays graphics.
If you took UC4/tlou2 and remade it with nowadays tech and assets quality but keeping the smart solutions instead of drenching it in RT, I still do believe it would be a good idea.
So on this I support Vick. But he also states many times in this thread that he likes RT and it would fix some problems he have with those games. It's just not a golden bullet yet. Not with it's performance and image quality (often too much noise and low res).

My point, even aside from RT, is extremely simple.

Can you take out completely baked lights from these scenes:

And from every single other material I've posted, and achieve the same result on a PS5 with real-time lighting? Let alone at comparable resolution and framerate?

Once we get through the ray tracing craze, we will agree that stylized lighting is always superior to natural lighting. Just because you can cheat and make it work for you. The worst offenders are the modern games with mid global illumination, and the devs forgo most if not all baked lighting and everything looks flat.

Edit:

Well I guess I can scrap Gaiff , as he apparently also believes I intentionally mislead people about RE4.

 

[Gaiff]

Once we get through the ray tracing craze, we will agree that stylized lighting is always superior to natural lighting. Just because you can cheat and make it work for you. The worst offenders are the modern games with mid global illumination, and the devs forgo most if not all baked lighting and everything looks flat.

Yeah, no. Games like Cyberpunk, Black Myth Wukong, and Alan Wake 2 use ray-traced lighting and are all far, far ahead of any game using baked lighting. Stylized lighting works when it's necessary. If you're just running outdoors, it's completely unnecessary and more often than not, there would be so much work needed to light an entire map properly that devs don't bother and you end up with something that looks jarring. HFW is widely considered one of the better looking open world games, but almost everyone agrees its weakest area is its lighting where it looks nowhere near as good as even a non-PT like The Witcher 3 enhanced. That stylized lighting is always superior to ray-traced is completely false.

The trick is to mix and match both techniques. Stylized and baked lighting to give important scenes and places a mood, and ray-traced lighting for the rest of the game to be coherent and properly lit and shadowed.

Just like DLSS and PSSR, ray tracing isn't a magic bullet. It's an enormous boon, but it still needs to be implemented properly. You don't just flip a switch and forget about it.

Well I guess I can scrap Gaiff , as he apparently also believes I intentionally mislead people about RE4.

I barely know what's going on between you and Corporal.Hicks about that RE4 thing. I vaguely recall you two arguing over whether or not the game was interlaced, but I never interpreted that as you attempting to mislead anyone and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Vick]

but I never interpreted that as you attempting to mislead anyone and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Well, that's what he's been repeatedly saying for these last two pages..

 

[Gaiff]

Well, that's what he's been repeatedly saying for these last two pages..

Sure, him, but I never said I agreed with that, so why do you say I also believe you tried to mislead us?

 

[Vick]

Sure, him, but I never said I agreed with that, so why do you say I also believe you tried to mislead us?

I just had to assume due to the "thoughtful" reaction under his last post where he has, once again, brought up that story, pretending I was offended for being wrong, and not because of his "As you want people to believe" used then, and the other plethora of omission/revisions of events contained within that same post.

Including a brand new accusation about Uncharted 3 textures. That makes it five.. you can't possibly make this up.

 

[Gaiff]

I just had to assume due to the "thoughtful" reaction under his last post where he has, once again, brought up that story, pretending I was offended for being wrong, and not because of his "As you want people to believe" used then, and the other plethora of omission/revisions of events contained within that same post.

I rated yours as thoughtful too. I rate a post as thoughtful when I learn something new or interesting. It's not necessarily an endorsement by me. I rated both your posts as such because you explained your points of view and this made me understand why you're having disagreements. I know what kind of poster you are and know you wouldn't try to trick people. I also know who here would deliberately try to mask the truth.

Including a brand new accusation about Uncharted 3 textures. That makes it five.. you can't possibly make this up.

Totally different matter and that's between you two because I can't be bothered to go back pages and read the back-and-forth, but you guys got along well in that other thread despite having different views. I see on the one hand, you say he's accusing you of lying, but on the other hand, he's saying you're insulting him. I'm not taking sides here, but you're both level-headed and mature enough to figure this out. Just don't think me rating posts one way or another means I'm agreeing with anything. I liked posts I didn't even agree with because their arguments were well-made and their defense well-constructed. I can like and respect a post I don't agree with. 90% of the time, this won't be the case, but there have been a few instances.

 

[Vick]

I rate a post as thoughtful when I learn something new or interesting. It's not necessarily an endorsement by me.

Smart man.

Totally different matter and that's between you two because I can't be bothered to go back pages and read the back-and-forth, but you guys got along well in that other thread despite having different views. I see on the one hand, you say he's accusing you of lying , but on the other hand, he's saying you're insulting him.

Called me a slick liar, while accusing me of using PS5 version of Uncharted for the comparison instead of PS4 Pro like I claimed it was. He was proven wrong.. no apology in sight.

What's ironic is that he himself happened to lie and mislead multiple times within this Thread, probably a dozen at this point, intentionally or not. No apology either.
The last one:

"I found exactly the same tree that Vick shows people in his last screenshot, but the tree texture on the PS3 version is nowhere near as sharp compared to the PS4."

Guess which is from the brand new 2024 uncompressed native 1080p screenshot, and which from the 720p Elgato capture .jpg circulating online for 10 years..

What kind of person would still display restraint at this point? Honestly? I know of any.

And I believe this endless pestering is all because of that ridiculous "threat" he made when he said:

I said you were misleading people by insisting that RE4R runs at native 4K on the PS5Pro. Do I need to remind you how that debate ended? I was correct, you were wrong. This discussion will also not end in your favor.

He now can't possibly let go, because he can't possibly accept the fact he has been virtually slapped multiple times through this mess he himself created.

And lastly, he was the first to insult as well. Has no ground whatsoever.

I'm not taking sides here, but you're both level-headed and mature enough to figure this out. Just don't think me rating posts one way or another means I'm agreeing with anything. I liked posts I didn't even agree with because their arguments were well-made and their defense well-constructed. I can like and respect a post I don't agree with. 90% of the time, this won't be the case, but there have been a few instances.

And I can only suggest to not dig further into the Thread as you would probably change your point of view of the person entirely. I sure have.

You're actually not bad at all as a shrink btw.

 

[simpatico]

Yeah, no. Games like Cyberpunk, Black Myth Wukong, and Alan Wake 2 use ray-traced lighting and are all far, far ahead of any game using baked lighting. Stylized lighting works when it's necessary. If you're just running outdoors, it's completely unnecessary and more often than not, there would be so much work needed to light an entire map properly that devs don't bother and you end up with something that looks jarring. HFW is widely considered one of the better looking open world games, but almost everyone agrees its weakest area is its lighting where it looks nowhere near as good as even a non-PT like The Witcher 3 enhanced. That stylized lighting is always superior to ray-traced is completely false.

The trick is to mix and match both techniques. Stylized and baked lighting to give important scenes and places a mood, and ray-traced lighting for the rest of the game to be coherent and properly lit and shadowed.

Just like DLSS and PSSR, ray tracing isn't a magic bullet. It's an enormous boon, but it still needs to be implemented properly. You don't just flip a switch and forget about it.


I barely know what's going on between you and Corporal.Hicks about that RE4 thing. I vaguely recall you two arguing over whether or not the game was interlaced, but I never interpreted that as you attempting to mislead anyone and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I agree a mixture will be the way to go moving forward. I wonder how much of the low effort GI we see now is just cost cutting? Who needs to hire expensive lighting artists when we can just press the GI button? I think we see the same thing with some UE5 games, who needs artists when the stock assets are so decent? The examples you gave are all kinda cream of the crop studios though. When I think of a game with absolute trash lighting, Terminator Resistance springs to mind. UE4 as a whole has aged like milk. Somehow the games looked good enough when they were new, but going back it just looks like UE3 again. Weird how perspective can change so drastically with time.

 

[Sophist]

PC ports are always inferior, especially when it come to shaders; those may be implemented in a different programming language not available on PC or in assembly specific to the console GPU. Instead, to gain time, the devs just delete the effect or replace it with something inferior. Devil may cry port is well known for being atrociously bad.

 

[Little Chicken]

Uncharted has aged, please stop posting pics of it, it hurts my eyes.

 

[Herr Edgy]

Can you mofos with no knowledge stop posting huge ass numbers of huge ass pictures without a spoiler tag?
You make me scroll for minutes, enough time to render your shitty pictures with RT

 

[Schmendrick]

If you took UC4/tlou2 and remade it with nowadays tech and assets quality but keeping the smart solutions instead of drenching it in RT, I still do believe it would be a good idea.

You`d not win much. The static stuff already looks excellent due to xy hours of pathtraced lighting baked in and everything else would still look "glowy 2d" no matter how high quality the assets are, see HFW for example.
There are no viable alternatives to RT when it comes to individual dynamic objects.

 

[Vick]

I imagine he's now frantically scrambling to find textures Bluepoint retouched for Uncharted 3, which unlike Drake's Fortune and especially the extensive work they did for U2, are very limited outside of main assets and characters, and especially have nothing to do the specific ones I've posted.

Sounds like a fun and enjoyable time ahead, in a Thread that seems destined to remain a derailed shit show forever thanks to this loser desperately trying to land a score.

 

[Bojji]

Matter of opinion of course. U4 is 2016 game that looks like a 2016 game, it was really good that year.

Uncharted has aged, please stop posting pics of it, it hurts my eyes.

Yep, it still looks ok but it's not close to the best looking games.

4k mode from PS5:

low res shadows (this was my main issue when I played the game in 2016), low res cube maps, simple objects and textures - all that stuff is here. Even baked lighting is very good in some places and not so great in others.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Was it dynamic at all? Most games used tricks to get there. We are one gen away from path tracing on console, we have to wait for that i guess.

Path tracing on the PS6? I doubt it unless next gen will still be 30fps...

 

[Famipan]

Nice guy! He has a video about Days Gone explaining how it looks on par with 9th gen games which I fully agree on.

Days Gone has custom made tweaks to Unreal Engine 4 which improves graphics a lot. Screen Space Shadows something. Interestingly Bend published their implementation code and Epic has integrated it with UE(5?) since.

interactiv

 

[Umbral]

I tried to read the whole thread but it turns into a Naughty Dog thread that kept crashing the website on my phone.

 

[Fabieter]

Path tracing on the PS6? I doubt it unless next gen will still be 30fps...

We will have way better ai upscaling and frame gen and use mid to mid high end GPus from 2027. Ita gonna have path tracing for sure.

 

[Mister Wolf]

RTGI FTW. When you use it, every shot is a " cherry picked glamour shot".

 

[rofif]

RTGI FTW. When you use it, every shot is a " cherry picked glamour shot".

well every shot is cherry picked in this traiiler becaues it's an nvidia ad
The game looks good but shame about the downgrade

 

[Vick]

low res shadows (this was my main issue when I played the game in 2016), low res cube maps, simple objects and textures - all that stuff is here. Even baked lighting is very good in some places and not so great in others.

But the only reason the game was mentioned in the first place, was to showcase its heights due to their relevance to the Thread.

I'm not sure at which point the narrative became, if it ever did, that the game looks perfect and so the hunt to the issue began.

Everyone knows what about the game looks great still, and what doesn't.

Matter of opinion of course.

Well, not when it comes to first portion of the post.

As this kind of GI isn't actually common at all outside of Lumen and.. can't think of anything else, and almost ten years and a whole generation have passed. As said already, the square above in vast majority of PS5 games would be black, let alone 2016 PS4 ones.

Same for these shadows on water.

These also can't be common because I don't remember playing a a single PS5 game, aside from TLOU Part I, that simulates this. Can you think of some?
It's a genuine question because I love this effect and would like to see it used more often, the only similar alternative that I remember playing is in the original Crysis, and sadly the Remaster completely botched it.

There would also be a compelling argument about animations, the game absolutely incredible HDR (internal one) and tone mapping, and plenty, plenty of other stuff.

https://advances.realtimerendering.com/other/2016/naughty_dog/NaughtyDog_TechArt_Final.pdf

I tried to read the whole thread but it turns into a Naughty Dog thread that kept crashing the website on my phone.

 

[FUBARx89]

I once apologized, in that occasion he keeps shamelessly bringing up, even though it was a genuine good faith mistake as HeWhoWalks , FUBARx89 , Gaiff , rofif and everyone else in that discussion can attest, and if we really want to be completely honest, at the moment isn't even confirmed as being wrong given the Interlaced RE4 screenshots looked nowhere near as clean as the Pro footage, as the person himself even admitted.. but I still apologized, because that's what a man does.

I feel like I've been touched by God. Tagged in a gold post.

Is this about RE4? Cause he did admit he was wrong cause he had a glitch or something.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Vick You got me, dude, I'm willing to admit I was wrong, and you won. Are you happy now? Well, you shouldnt

I knew you weren't very bright, but after what you just did, I can't stop laughing. Dude, you are even below the IQ of 42.99 and you should be in the Guinness World Records for that hehe. I'm starting to like you again because you make me laugh like no one else here, and I can't take you seriously anymore

It took me one second to realize what's the problem with the Uncharted 3 PS3 vs PS4 comparison screenshot you posted. Your image has a resolution of 1067x592, and that's way too low to show a noticeable difference between the PS3 and PS4 textures., because PS4 games are rendered at 2K and use much higher resolution texture assets. It's like trying to watch UHD movie on 2K display and expecting to see resolution differences. Because of my work even on that miniature of yours I knew exactly where's the PS4 version. It's on the left, because even at such low resolution my trained eyes can see the difference between real fine details and contrast edge sharpening that is often used on low resolution textures to make them appear more detailed and fool people into thinking they are looking at higher resolution texture.

On my Panasonic GT60 plasma TV I get a very sharp picture from both 1080p and 720p content, and I also have a 720p plasma in another room, therefore I can easiy notice texture resolution difference with my own eyes between PS3 and the PS4 versions of the game. I'm however wondering if my $2000 camera will be able to show this difference, because even expenisve camera cant really show what our eyes can see, and that's especially true when you want to take TV photos. Screenshot comparison will also not work, because for one the PS4Pro takes extremely low quality screenshots, while the PS3 dont even offer such option (at least in most games).

I will see what can be done, but even before I will show you my own comparison I can link you to the Digital Foundry analysis where they said:

Face-Off: Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception on PS4

As a culmination of Naughty Dog's work over the course of the PlayStation 3 generation, Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception …

www.eurogamer.net

During normal gameplay, textures actually appear very similar between the two versions with the lower rendering resolution of the PS3 original seemingly obscuring detail. Yet, when the camera pulls in for a close-up, it's possible to see that base textures are actually much higher quality on PS4. The texture work on PS3 was already very good, but at 1080p, the upgrades are certainly beneficial.

Digital Foundry said exactly what I can see with my own eyes. If you look at the image from a normal viewing distance on a TV (or like you did prepare a miniaturized image), some textures may look very similar at first glance, but when you look at the texture from a closer distance, the difference is noticeable. That difference shouldnt surprise anyone, because people with a fully functional brain would expect that the remastered version of the game on the next-gen platform would show such differences, and would not even think about telling people that the PS4 version can look the same as the original PS3 version. You were showing people PS4 screenshots and telling them thery are basically looking at PS3 quality hehe .

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I knew you weren't very bright, but after what you just did, I can't stop laughing. Dude, you are even below the IQ of 42.99 and you should be in the Guinness World Records for that hehe. I'm starting to like you again because you make me laugh like no one else here, and I can't take you seriously anymore

I will never understand how an adult can stoop to this level of discourse, no matter who’s right/wrong. In fact, it makes it appear that you are more triggered than you’re admitting.

The IQ/Guinness stuff is so childish and unnecessary that any point you are looking to make, no matter how strong, is lost as a result.

 

[Vick]

I had doubts an even lower level could be reached..

What was said originally:

"These Uncharted 3 textures haven't been touched one bit by Bluepoint and looked absolutely identical on PS3 with same exact internal (insane) resolution, with the only difference of being shown via native 720p output resolution"

What was claimed:

"I found exactly the same tree that Vick shows people in his last screenshot, but the tree texture on the PS3 version is nowhere near as sharp compared to the PS4."

Actual proof, via brand new 2024 PS5 uncompressed native 1080p screenshot vs PS3 720p Elgato capture .jpg circulating online for 10 years.

Same exact artwork visible down the most minuscule details, only differences due to extremely obvious reasons for everyone with a literal IQ above single digit threshold.

But whatever, the absolute state of that entire comment surely doesn't deserve a proper reply and I'm genuinely tired of being dragged into the abyss.

I will never understand how an adult can stoop to this level of discourse, no matter who’s right/wrong. In fact, it makes it appear that you are more triggered than you’re admitting.

The IQ/Guinness stuff is so childish and unnecessary that any point you are looking to make, no matter how strong, is lost as a result.

Genuinely sad to witness.
But at the very least oddly amusing thanks to Mister Wolf's decision to label that meltdown as 'thoughtful', which genuinely made me laugh out loud.

 

[rofif]

Vick You got me, dude, I'm willing to admit I was wrong, and you won. Are you happy now? Well, you shouldnt

I knew you weren't very bright, but after what you just did, I can't stop laughing. Dude, you are even below the IQ of 42.99 and you should be in the Guinness World Records for that hehe. I'm starting to like you again because you make me laugh like no one else here, and I can't take you seriously anymore

It took me one second to realize what's the problem with the Uncharted 3 PS3 vs PS4 comparison screenshot you posted. Your image has a resolution of 1067x592, and that's way too low to show a noticeable difference between the PS3 and PS4 textures., because PS4 games are rendered at 2K and use much higher resolution texture assets. It's like trying to watch UHD movie on 2K display and expecting to see resolution differences. Because of my work even on that miniature of yours I knew exactly where's the PS4 version. It's on the left, because even at such low resolution my trained eyes can see the difference between real fine details and contrast edge sharpening that is often used on low resolution textures to make them appear more detailed and fool people into thinking they are looking at higher resolution texture.

On my Panasonic GT60 plasma TV I get a very sharp picture from both 1080p and 720p content, and I also have a 720p plasma in another room, therefore I can easiy notice texture resolution difference with my own eyes between PS3 and the PS4 versions of the game. I'm however wondering if my $2000 camera will be able to show this difference, because even expenisve camera cant really show what our eyes can see, and that's especially true when you want to take TV photos. Screenshot comparison will also not work, because for one the PS4Pro takes extremely low quality screenshots, while the PS3 dont even offer such option (at least in most games).

I will see what can be done, but even before I will show you my own comparison I can link you to the Digital Foundry analysis where they said:

Face-Off: Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception on PS4

As a culmination of Naughty Dog's work over the course of the PlayStation 3 generation, Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception …

www.eurogamer.net

Digital Foundry said exactly what I can see with my own eyes. If you look at the image from a normal viewing distance on a TV (or like you did prepare a miniaturized image), some textures may look very similar at first glance, but when you look at the texture from a closer distance, the difference is noticeable. That difference shouldnt surprise anyone, because people with a fully functional brain would expect that the remastered version of the game on the next-gen platform would show such differences, and would not even think about telling people that the PS4 version can look the same as the original PS3 version. You were showing people PS4 screenshots and telling them thery are basically looking at PS3 quality hehe .

please tell me this shit isn't your main tv... if so, you have no say here.
4k and hdr are a game changer.
This is a great ps3 tv though

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

you view neogaf in light theme.

/s

On a more serious note - the fact that we are arguing about RE4 remake being 4k or not clearly is a good thing because the image quality is so good, so BOTH SIDES WIN HERE.
It's a good conflict to have. And yeah, it runs better than on my 3080 and doesn't crash like my 10gb card does with rt.
And as for UC4, idk what you guys are hearing but all vick seems to be saying is that it is remarkably great solution back from 2016 and they did a ton of stuff with it that can rival nowadays graphics.
If you took UC4/tlou2 and remade it with nowadays tech and assets quality but keeping the smart solutions instead of drenching it in RT, I still do believe it would be a good idea.
So on this I support Vick. But he also states many times in this thread that he likes RT and it would fix some problems he have with those games. It's just not a golden bullet yet. Not with it's performance and image quality (often too much noise and low res).

Keep in mind what this thread was about. last gen was very different. It was probably the last time devs truly coded to the metal and overachieved for the system they developed for.

Your card RTX3080 in "Resident Evil 4 Remake" has almost 60fps at native 4K with MAXED OUT SETTINGS. Do you really believe the PS5Pro runs this game at native 4K and maxed out settings?

It's so sad that you're insulting your RTX3080 with comparisons to the PS5Pro console. This mighty card has served you well for 4 years and now you are showing her no love and respect whatsoever. You should be ashamed.

As far as the image quality of RE4R is concerned, I myself have commented that the game looks very good on the PS5Pro..... well at least on the static image, because on my PC when I turn on interlaced resolution there's shimmering on certain places, while TAA native looks flawless in all situations. I'm wondering if you can compare the shimmering between your PS5Pro and the PC version running at 4K interlaced? You dont need to post any videos, because unlike Vick I can trust you given your post history. On PC this shimmering in interlaced mode is mainly visible around grass during movement.

Also, would you like to help your dear friend Vick by answering his question? Vick made this comparison based on my PC screenshots and he was wondering why there's additional DoF layer impossible to disable on PS5. I believe you might know answer to that question .

please tell me this shit isn't your main tv... if so, you have no say here.
4k and hdr are a game changer.
This is a great ps3 tv though

Listen, I could use similar argument against console gamers and tell them that they shouldnt talk about graphics and RT if they can only play on consoles. Why? Because console games often look and run like crap compared to PC version, especially now in the era of RT. Can console gamer play games like the witcher 3 with fullRT, cyberpunk with PT, or Black Myth Wukong with PT? Until the PS6 arrives, console gamers can only dream of such quality, and I'm not surprised so many console gamers cant tell the diffrence between raster lighting and RT.

That's how black myth wukong looks on PS5 (and the game still runs like crap BTW)

As for your question about my TV, I dont have a main TV. I have a big house, and I've collected a lot of displays over the years (I might have something like 10 different tv's) including Sony Bravia 4K KD-55X9005B. It was one of the first 4K TVs with HDR, so HDR performance isnt that great and from normal viewing distance (3m) 4K resolution isnt that noticeable either. I would need to use that TV as monitor to really notice 4K benefits.

Although I do not have a main TV, I prefer to play on my monitor (1440p 170Hz VRR HDR) because I like the responsivenes in fast paced fps games like Quake or Unreal Tournament (Yes, I'm that old). IMO 1440p is ideal resolution for gaming, because it's easier to run unoptimized games, and I can also use 4K DLDSR in all games that make 1440p look way sharper than native 4K on my sony 4K LCD. In the past I liked playing PS4/PS3 games on my panasonic GT60 plasma, but now I mainly watch BD's on it, because no TV on this planet offers better image quality from BD movies. Calling my legendary GT60 Panasonic shity hurt my feelings, dude but I'm a nice guy and I forgive you.

My GT60 has unusually high brighness for a plasma (it was the lasted panasonic plasma), so even during the day SDR content look bright to my eyes. I also get perfect colors, blacks and shadows details (no black crush), The most impressive thing is however MOTION QUALITY. Thanks to internal 3000Hz refreshrate eveything looks sharp even during motion and I dont need to use frame interpolation or any other crutchers made for LCD's or OLEDS. My 170Hz VRR monitor isnt that bad compared to other monitors when it comes to moiton quality, but my GT60 plasma is still on totally different level. The static picture quality also looks great on my GT60. The picture might be only 1080p, but PERCEIVED sharpness abosolutely murders both my 1440p monitor and 4K sony LCD. My friends were often impressed when they watched something on this TV. I plan to keep my GT60 plasma until it dies , because when I watch something on my GT60 I cant complain about anything. If I however watch other displays there's always something that bothers me. If I would have to choose between my plasma and your LG 42 OLED (C1 if I remember correctly?) , I would choose my "shity" plasma, because OLEDs are available everywhere, while unfortunately you can no longer buy so well preserved GT60 plasma(After 12 years of using my GT60, I still have ZERO burn-in). I'm however planning replacing my sony bravia 55X9005B and I'm only conisdering two brands, sony or panasonic.

 

[mrqs]

It's really simple.

Just take a look at Cyberpunk 2077 path traced, or Indiana Jones path traced. It looks insane and it takes much, much less time-consuming work from devs.

The future of nanite is the same thing: Not having to work on a dozen LOD levels for each model is great for dev-time.

It's a pain now, but it's better for the gold era of gaming that's coming.

Using Uncharted 4 for a 'good example of baked lighting' is like using an Olympic athlete for a good example of how you should run. It's not feasible for 95% of devs to do that.

 

[rofif]

Your card RTX3080 in "Resident Evil 4 Remake" has almost 60fps at native 4K with MAXED OUT SETTINGS. Do you really believe the PS5Pro runs this game at native 4K and maxed out settings?

It's so sad that you're insulting your RTX3080 with comparisons to the PS5Pro console. This mighty card has served you well for 4 years and now you are showing her no love and respect whatsoever. You should be ashamed.

As far as the image quality of RE4R is concerned, I myself have commented that the game looks very good on the PS5Pro..... well at least on the static image, because on my PC when I turn on interlaced resolution there's shimmering on certain places, while TAA native looks flawless in all situations. I'm wondering if you can compare the shimmering between your PS5Pro and the PC version running at 4K interlaced? You dont need to post any videos, because unlike Vick I can trust you given your post history. On PC this shimmering in interlaced mode is mainly visible around grass during movement.

Also, would you like to help your dear friend Vick by answering his question? Vick made this comparison based on my PC screenshots and he was wondering why there's additional DoF layer impossible to disable on PS5. I believe you might know answer to that question .

Listen, I could use similar argument against console gamers and tell them that they shouldnt talk about graphics and RT if they can only play on consoles. Why? Because console games often look and run like crap compared to PC version, especially now in the era of RT. Can console gamer play games like the witcher 3 with fullRT, cyberpunk with PT, or Black Myth Wukong with PT? Until the PS6 arrives, console gamers can only dream of such quality, and I'm not surprised so many console gamers cant tell the diffrence between raster lighting and RT.

That's how black myth wukong looks on PS5 (and the game still runs like crap BTW)

As for your question about my TV, I dont have a main TV. I have a big house, and I've collected a lot of displays over the years (I might have something like 10 different tv's) including Sony Bravia 4K KD-55X9005B. It was one of the first 4K TVs with HDR, so HDR performance isnt that great and from normal viewing distance (3m) 4K resolution isnt that noticeable either. I would need to use that TV as monitor to really notice 4K benefits.

Although I do not have a main TV, I prefer to play on my monitor (1440p 170Hz VRR HDR) because I like the responsivenes in fast paced fps games like Quake or Unreal Tournament (Yes, I'm that old). IMO 1440p is ideal resolution for gaming, because it's easier to run unoptimized games, and I can also use 4K DLDSR in all games that make 1440p look way sharper than native 4K on my sony 4K LCD. In the past I liked playing PS4/PS3 games on my panasonic GT60 plasma, but now I mainly watch BD's on it, because no TV on this planet offers better image quality from BD movies. Calling my legendary GT60 Panasonic shity hurt my feelings, dude but I'm a nice guy and I forgive you.

My GT60 has unusually high brighness for a plasma (it was the lasted panasonic plasma), so even during the day SDR content look bright to my eyes. I also get perfect colors, blacks and shadows details (no black crush), The most impressive thing is however MOTION QUALITY. Thanks to internal 3000Hz refreshrate eveything looks sharp even during motion and I dont need to use frame interpolation or any other crutchers made for LCD's or OLEDS. My 170Hz VRR monitor isnt that bad compared to other monitors when it comes to moiton quality, but my GT60 plasma is still on totally different level. The static picture quality also looks great on my GT60. The picture might be only 1080p, but PERCEIVED sharpness abosolutely murders both my 1440p monitor and 4K sony LCD. My friends were often impressed when they watched something on this TV. I plan to keep my GT60 plasma until it dies , because when I watch something on my GT60 I cant complain about anything. If I however watch other displays there's always something that bothers me. If I would have to choose between my plasma and your LG 42 OLED (C1 if I remember correctly?) , I would choose my "shity" plasma, because OLEDs are available everywhere, while unfortunately you can no longer buy so well preserved GT60 plasma(After 12 years of using my GT60, I still have ZERO burn-in). I'm however planning replacing my sony bravia 55X9005B and I'm only conisdering two brands, sony or panasonic.

It shimmers more on pc of it’s fsr2 or native.
Infinished re4 remake on pc on release as it was crashing all the way through if I was playing with rt on, on a MIGHTY 3080. 3080 sucks because it’s 10gb of vram. And it deeps lower than ps5 pro version of re4 too.
That said, I just replayed the game on pro and it ran faster on average, with rt and had better image quality since there is no dlss on pc version.
So no. I respected 3080 enough but ps5 pro version runs and looks better. If it’s lower rea internally, I dont know and Indont care. But 3080=4070 and df said that ps5 pro is 4070.

You have a good monitor so that’s fine. I think hdr is more impactful than rt or anything else this gen.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

I had doubts an even lower level could be reached..

What was said originally:

"These Uncharted 3 textures haven't been touched one bit by Bluepoint and looked absolutely identical on PS3 with same exact internal (insane) resolution, with the only difference of being shown via native 720p output resolution"

What was claimed:

"I found exactly the same tree that Vick shows people in his last screenshot, but the tree texture on the PS3 version is nowhere near as sharp compared to the PS4."

Actual proof, via brand new 2024 PS5 uncompressed native 1080p screenshot vs PS3 720p Elgato capture .jpg circulating online for 10 years.

Same exact artwork visible down the most minuscule details, only differences due to extremely obvious reasons for everyone with a literal IQ above single digit threshold.

But whatever, the absolute state of that entire comment surely doesn't deserve a proper reply and I'm genuinely tired of being dragged into the abyss.


Genuinely sad to witness.
But at the very least oddly amusing thanks to Mister Wolf's decision to label that meltdown as 'thoughtful', which genuinely made me laugh out loud.

Vick, even your miniaturised image shows a difference and I did not have to think which was which. I also saw that you uploaded a 1920x1080 PNG version for a moment, but then deleted it. You probably realised that the higher resolution version showed too much detail and decided to delete it. Dude, you are lying people with full awarnes of doing so. You want people to think you were right, even if that means hiding evidence that proves you lied to them. What kind of people do that? Certainly not very honest or sincere. That's why I stopped liking you, mate, if you were honest and respected people I'd still like you. Your friends rofif HeWhoWalks may not like me, but I have not seen them lie or deceive people.

It doesn't matter that you hid the evidence, because I took my own photos with one of the sharpest lenses available on the market, but before I post them, please tell us once again what are you expecting to see? You finally realized that I was correct, and you expecting to see a huge difference in texture quality between the remastered Uncharted 3 on PS4 and the PS3 version, or are you still insisting there's no difference??

 

[Vick]

please tell me this shit isn't your main tv...

Dude, you triggered me more than you could possibly trigger him with this.. lol

I still collect Pioneer and Panasonic plasma, have a KRP-500M, VT50 and I'll soon going to grab a bran new and unused ZT60. Motion clarity is unmatched, by a matter of miles. As is near-black performance.
They rock hard dude, you'd be speechless in front of 60hz PS5 signals on those panels, in any way that concerns an image.

As for the response to that fucking guy, who I see has just made a new batshit insane claim about a 1080p screenshot being deleted, when Uncharted 3 on PS3 renders at 720p meaning any 1080p screenshot would be nothing more than a blown up, re-compressed file.. response is almost ready. And it's the last one, as my patience has been understandably exhausted a while ago.