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[nkarafo]

Oh shit, he's the villain? I thought he was like one of the teachers or something. I didn't think this situation could look any worse.

Oh boy i didn't know that, now it's like he is doing it on purpose... there is no defending him i guess. That's so sad.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Asking anyone why there isn't more individuals of color in *insert movie* is such a bait move but man Burton is stupid for going that far.

 

[Cuburt]

I had a gut feeling that he'd dig himself a hole but I didn't expect him to do it like this.

 

[lightskintwin]

Asking anyone why there isn't more individuals of color in *insert movie* is such a bait move but man Burton is stupid for going that far.

LOL But they keep falling for the bait and failing miserably. The answers end up being so hilarious in how terrible they are. They need to keep asking at least for my entertainment. LOL

 

[Nepenthe]

Asking anyone why there isn't more individuals of color in *insert movie* is such a bait move but man Burton is stupid for going that far.

It's only a bait move if you don't have a good answer for it, of which several of which were provided in this thread. xD

 

[junpei]

It's a bad response alright.

Then again, forced diversity is also bad. Forcing anything that isn't the creator's original vision isn't right IMO. I hope that's what he meant.

To be fair, most Burton's movies have a very strong and specific aesthetic. Sometimes even the white people in them aren't white enough for him. So he makes them look even more pale, like corpses. Maybe it's just an aesthetic thing.

He should have worded a better response than this.

The creators original vision is not the be all end all . there have been countless movie that have made better because of studio input (lord of the rings and clerks being 2 examples).

 

[besada]

It's not an altogether satisfying answer, but I think even historical accuracy is at least something that's kind of understandable. Not that it wouldn't merit criticism of its own, but it's leagues better than this bizarre counterpoint about how he as a white person didn't complain about the lack of white people in blaxpoitation films of all things.

The problem with the explanation is that the book describes the orphans as not being from Wales, so the demographics of Wales aren't very important. As far as I can tell, the original author only uses white kids, too, but they're white kids from all around.

As for the original author's vision, this is where it gets funny. The original author didn't have a vision, he had a bunch of strange photographs he was trying to turn into a book, when an editor recommended he use the photos to create a story, which he did. So the choice of the colors/looks for the children are based off of random photos he found. He hadn't actually intended to write a book in the first place.

 

[grandwizard]

You say that, but apparently you can't even make a biopic about Bruce Lee without making the main character a white guy for the audience.

My god this is infuriating.

 

[Big Nikus]

To think that Penny Dreadful had to end early for this.

Off topic, but, I watched season 1 and loved it. So, it's over with season 3 ? Is the ending satisfying at least, or should I avoid the frustration ?

 

[Usobuko]

There's nothing wrong with a movie featuring a female cast.
There's nothing wrong with a movie featuring only black people.
There's nothing wrong with a movie featuring only Asians.

And so on.

But a movie featuring only a white cast? Oh no, you can't have that. That's the only thing that is forbidden for some reason.

So what. Truth is not every movie needs a diverse cast. My story could involve black people only. Why should i force a white person or something in there if i don't want to? It's my frigging story. Get your own.

All you did here is laughing at PoC and other marginalized groups.

" Sucks to be you guys bruh, you'll end up buying our racist shit anyway. As for movies that featured only your race, good luck in the dumpster bin."

 

[TheSun]

Bloody hell, Tim Burton always sounded like an odd sort in interviews so I'm not surprised he said something out of touch and dumb. Though this really takes the cake.

 

[Slaythe]

I totally understand the problem, but....... I think some movies should have the right not to feature diversity for the sake of having it.

Burton's words are awful.

But there are many examples of towns or social groups in the UK with almost no diversity at all.

I understand why they would rather avoid bringing in "token black guy" etc... if nothing asked for it in the story.

It's really lucky that Star Wars managed to include diversity perfectly, you never ask yourself why they're here.

Hopefully this opens the door for many movies that don't hesitate to do that. They get whoever fits the character, good actors, regardless of race.

 

[Fusebox]

Does Tim Burton think he's making Whitesploitation films?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Off topic, but, I watched season 1 and loved it. So, it's over with season 3 ? Is the ending satisfying at least, or should I avoid the frustration ?

avoid last two episodes ;___;

 

[Nepenthe]

I understand why they would rather avoid bringing in "token black guy" etc... if nothing asked for it in the story.

Why do white characters get to exist in a story without people asking why they're white?

 

[Pau]

Another question is why Hollywood continues to greenlight movies based on primarily-white source material. Miss Peregrine was a bestseller in 2011, and it is part of a series, so for a studio looking for a YA blockbuster franchise it probably looked promising. I get that.

But whether Miss Peregrine is a fantastic story or not, there's plenty of stories out there which feature more diverse casts. If people are going to argue for 'accuracy' in their source material, then studios should change the source material they're making films from.

As besada said, the director is just one piece of the studio system, and this bias (towards race and towards gender) runs through it from top to bottom. Are mostly-white stories like Peregrine being chosen with unconscious bias by the studios? Or was it chosen cynically because it's a good, bestselling story that might have legs and has an 'uncontroversial' white cast?

Backing up even further, why is it that the (YA) novels that do well seem to feature mostly white characters? What is going on with readers that they're focusing on these stories? Do publishers share in the unconscious or conscious bias when choosing which books to print and which to promote heavily?

Even when the source material isn't super white, it gets white-washed. A bunch of readers including myself thought of Katniss as mixed race because of her comparing herself to her "whiter" sister and mother, but we got an actress where that difference was ignored.

 

[AtomskEater]

I totally understand the problem, but....... I think some movies should have the right not to feature diversity for the sake of having it.

Burton's words are awful.

But there are many examples of towns or social groups in the UK with almost no diversity at all.

I understand why they would rather avoid bringing in "token black guy" etc... if nothing asked for it in the story.

It's really lucky that Star Wars managed to include diversity perfectly, you never ask yourself why they're here.

Hopefully this opens the door for many movies that don't hesitate to do that. They get whoever fits the character, good actors, regardless of race.

There's no problem with making a movie that has only white actors in lead roles. That's still far more common than "forced diversity". The question is usually posed to get directors and other people in positions of power to think beyond casting all white people just because that's what they've always done. No one is forcing anyone to change their ways, but reflection might lead to change. Honestly I'm waiting for someone to just say "the majority of the people we cast are white just because that's how I want it", instead of going on rambling half-related tirades about being offended by a Brady Bunch episode. Just be honest and say you never thought about it or you just wanted it that way, damn lol. You'll notice most of the criticism is about Burton's terrible response and no one's really demanding he be more inclusive in future films.

It's so strange that minorities have to have a "reason" for being present in a world, no matter how fantastical or whatever the world itself is. Minorities, women, gay people, trans people etc are all individuals that don't have lives and stories informed only by their being minorities or a woman or gay or transgender. Like honestly isn't it the least bit troubling that white (and usually male+straight) is a default that needs no further explanation, but anyone else better have something in writing?

The setting is also pretty irrelevant in most cases. History, for example, is usually much more diverse that people give it credit for (I had a great blog with examples, if I can find it again I'll post it), and we exist in an increasingly global world. Honestly this is a subject we could do a whole thread about.

Another advantage of having more diverse casts is that you have more leeway to mess up characterization or to cast a minority in a negative/villain role. Some people are side-eyeing the movie now that they see the only black man in it is a villain, but if you have a history of giving minorities varied roles you generally don't have to worry about claims of tokenism. And lastly it's not impossible to consult with people if you think a bit of characterization is offensive, tokenism, or will draw criticism. It's not by accident or luck they managed to include a leading black role in Star Wars and have it be natural and not about how dark his skin is.

Even when the source material isn't super white, it gets white-washed. A bunch of readers including myself thought of Katniss as mixed race because of her comparing herself to her "whiter" sister and mother, but we got an actress where that difference was ignored.

Oh jeez. Mentioning that series brings up memories of the confused, dodo-like outrage when people saw that Rue was black in the movie, when she had always been described that way in the book.

 

[Claude Augario]

Diversity is the natural state of the universe. When you argue against "forced diversity" or "diversity for diversity's sake" you're ignoring the fact that predominate whiteness, especially in Hollywood, is the longstanding product of white supremacy. When people ask why there's a lack of color in media, they aren't trying to force people in that don't belong there - they're trying to dismantle an insidious system erected long ago that was specifically trying to keep everyone else out.

"Forced diversity" is launched from a position that all white is all natural, and the sight of color is an aberration to the system.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Off topic, but, I watched season 1 and loved it. So, it's over with season 3 ? Is the ending satisfying at least, or should I avoid the frustration ?

Season 2 and 3 are worth watching, but I'd stop at the wonderful bottle episode mid season 3. The series ending is anything but satisfactory, and actually does a great deal to sabotage Eva's character. Avoid the last few episodes.

Even when the source material isn't super white, it gets white-washed. A bunch of readers including myself thought of Katniss as mixed race because of her comparing herself to her "whiter" sister and mother, but we got an actress where that difference was ignored.

This is certainly true. Perhaps writers should demand (en masse in order to make a strong stand) that they will only give film rights if the racial background of their characters are honored in the film adaptations.

 

[Discotheque]

Off topic, but, I watched season 1 and loved it. So, it's over with season 3 ? Is the ending satisfying at least, or should I avoid the frustration ?

the first two seasons are absolutely worth watching. and eva green and the caliban guy do great work in season 3...but man that show has a terrible rushed finale. just follow it to the bitter end since you're getting good stuff throughout anyways.

 

[Lucky Seven]

Then you're a tosser.

Hey, didn't I just admit i'm an asshole? Would your first observation of the sky be, "Well then, it's blue."? I don't agree with Burton, but will admit guilty to thinking "Well, why does this character have to be black/gay/female/etc" before just shrugging it off and accepting the choice. But, hey, i'm an asshole for having the thought cross the mind and like I said I admit it. But, most people I know stick to their guns and do not respond well to those choices.

 

[Big Nikus]

avoid last two episodes ;___;

Season 2 and 3 are worth watching, but I'd stop at the wonderful bottle episode mid season 3. The series ending is anything but satisfactory, and actually does a great deal to sabotage Eva's character. Avoid the last few episodes.

the first two seasons are absolutely worth watching. and eva green and the caliban guy do great work in season 3...but man that show has a terrible rushed finale. just follow it to the bitter end since you're getting good stuff throughout anyways.

Thanks. I'll stick to it because I really loved the first season, but damn, that's a shame. At least I won't have any expectations and I'll be prepared to be disappointed if I watch 'til the end.

On topic: I don't know what to say because I'm so disappointed in Burton that I don't even have the words to express it. One of my all time favorite directors, and he turns out to be a fucking bigoted idiot. Shit.