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[Johndoey]

http://time.com/4965932/las-vegas-shooting-gun/

The gunman who opened fire on an outdoor concert in Las Vegas had two "bump-stocks" that would have allowed a semi-automatic gun to shoot more like an automatic weapon, the Associated Press reports.
The devices replace the gun's shoulder rest with a "support step" that covers the trigger opening, using the recoil from the gun's firing to bump the user's finger to "bump" the trigger, allowing it to fire at a faster rate. If bump stocks were used, they would allow Stephen Paddock to fire hundreds of times into the crowd at the at the Route 91 Harvest Festival at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas on Sunday night.
California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein has long criticized bump stocks, arguing that they essentially retrofit semiautomatic weapons, which are legal, to make them fully automatic weapons, which are not.

Automatic weapons manufactured and registered with the government before 1986 can still be legally bought, owned and sold. To buy one, you need to submit fingerprints and photographs to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, submit to an FBI criminal background check and pay a $200 tax, among other restrictions.

Can you convert a semiautomatic to be more like an automatic weapon?
Yes, easily, cheaply and legally. There are a couple types of devices anyone can buy that modify a semiautomatic weapon to function more like an automatic weapon with burst fire, USA Today reports. A ”trigger crank" or ”gat crank" attaches onto the trigger guard, and the shooter then rotates the crank, which will the pull the trigger about 3x per rotation. A ”bump stock," also legal in the U.S., adjusts the stock of the gun so that the recoil itself fires rounds in rapid succession. Both devices are sold online in the neighborhood of about $50 to more than $100. You can't modify the internal components of the gun to make it fully automatic, but these workaround accessories are perfectly legal.

Found this browsing through the Time site.

Also
Popular Mechanics: Vegas Shooter Had 'Bump Stocks' To Convert Rifles to Full-Auto

Bump stocks are simple pieces of equipment that replace the stock of a rifle and add a small "support step" in front of the trigger. The shooter rests his finger on this step and pulls forward on the barrel or forward grip to press the trigger against his finger. The recoil of the shot then propels the rifle backwards into a gap in stationary stock where the loose fit gives the rifle freedom to bounce forward. This, along with sustained forward pressure on the rifle, has the effect of 'bumping' the trigger back into the shooter's unmoving finger. So long as a shooter maintains forward pressure, the rifle will continue to fire at a rate much faster than could be accomplished with even the quickest possible series of manual trigger pulls.

Two of the main manufacturers of bump stocks —Bump Fire Systems and Slide Fire—have posted letters from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, which declare these devices as legal in large part because they "[have] no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and [perform] no automatic function when installed."

They do, however, have the practical effect of drastically increasing rate of fire. As California Sen. Dianne Feinstein told the AP, "This replacement shoulder stock turns a semi-automatic rifle into a weapon that can fire at a rate of 400 to 800 rounds per minute."

Officials are still investigating whether the two bump stocks found in the room were actually used along with the rifles during the massacre.

 

[andythinkpad]

I doubt it will get a single law change. So I doubt it's that important.

 

[studyguy]

Mentioned it in the other thread, Bump Stocks and Gat Cranks have always existed in that weird gray zone that felt like they could be dealt a legal blow with enough criticism. The real question is enforcement, because obtaining a homemade solution is so easy. Again as mentioned in the other thread, at least with the bump stock you can 3D print one out quick enough, but at that point the question is probably more limiting the ease of obtaining one on the legal market vs whatever black market crops up.

Also it's worth noting the bills going through congress right now while we're discussing this.
The silencer bill is delayed currently, but I mean they literally brought back Scalise in time to whip the vote for the bill to ease the limits on gun silencers after he was just shot. It's wild if you think about the optics of it. Then again they brought McCain back literally days after he had brain surgery for a healthcare vote so idk. Everything around these pieces of legislation rub me wrong.

 

[Sethista]

I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.

Just the fact that police cant keep gun data by law is so egregious to me, I cant even start to understand how the govt let it reach this level.

 

[shnurgleton]

This kind of supports the point that trying to draw a line at "assault" weapons is pointless. It's just semantic nonsense obscuring the fact that it's just grasping at some way to measure the killing capacity of a gun. Guns are purpose built for killing, and unless you're okay with their intended application, then something must be done to limit access to guns.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Mentioned it in the other thread, Bump Stocks and Gat Cranks have always existed in that weird gray zone that felt like they could be dealt a legal blow with enough criticism. The real question is enforcement, because obtaining a homemade solution is so easy. Again as mentioned in the other thread, at least with the bump stock you can 3D print one out quick enough, but at that point the question is probably more limiting the ease of obtaining one on the legal market vs whatever black market crops up.

How easy is it really though?

Cuz even the smallest hurdles and laws can act as a reasonable deterrent for opportunistic criminals

No reason not to at least investigate enforcement options

 

[danowat]

Coming from a country with strict gun laws, being able to legally own semi automatic weapons seems bizarre, but being able to modify those within a grey area to a full auto is just mind blowing.

 

[Oersted]

I doubt it will get a single law change. So I doubt it's that important.

Don't be the change you want to see, be the defeatist they want you to be.

Or however the saying goes.

 

[smurfx]

I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.

Just the fact that police cant keep gun data by law is so egregious to me, I cant even start to understand how the govt let it reach this level.

i doubt any shooting against regular people will be enough. only way things would change is if the politicians themselves were attacked regularly. fear for your own life trumps money most of the time. although they would sooner pass a law demanding secret service protection for every politician than pass any reasonable gun control laws.

 

[cwmartin]

That is actually more terrifying that I imagined in my head, wow.

 

[CyclopsRock]

If he has 11 guns and two bump-stocks that seem not to have been installed, it seems that possibly the fact he has eleven guns is the bigger issue. In many ways I'm tempted to think that have a high velocity, semi-automatic rifle would be more deadly than a full automatic (or effectively fully auto). It doesn't take too longer to empty a magazine in semi auto and the relatively lack of kick might mean those bullets that do leave are more likely to hit their target (which in this case was a huge area).

 

[shnurgleton]

i doubt any shooting against regular people will be enough. only way things would change is if the politicians themselves were attacked regularly. fear for your own life trumps money most of the time. although they would sooner pass a law demanding secret service protection for every politician than pass any reasonable gun control laws.

Republican baseball team got assaulted and nothing happened

 

[studyguy]

How easy is it really though?

Cuz even the smallest hurdles and laws can act as a reasonable deterrent for opportunistic criminals

No reason not to at least investigate enforcement options

Aye that's definitely worth it to me, right now like I said, everyone can obtain a bump stock no problem. Not everyone has a 3D printer though, and while the internet exists, it's at least another hurdle knowing it's legality is in question for someone considering it.

 

[LordKasual]

I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.

the moment 20 children got blown away in an elementary school and nothing changed, i think it became obvious that no tragedy would be big enough.

 

[SRG01]

If he has 11 guns and two bump-stocks that seem not to have been installed, it seems that possibly the fact he has eleven guns is the bigger issue. In many ways I'm tempted to think that have a high velocity, semi-automatic rifle would be more deadly than a full automatic (or effectively fully auto). It doesn't take too longer to empty a magazine in semi auto and the relatively lack of kick might mean those bullets that do leave are more likely to hit their target (which in this case was a huge area).

That's very much incorrect, especially when it's a crowded area like a concert.

 

[Stinkles]

As a sportsman and a hunter I would just like to point out that bump stocks massively increase the accuracy and safety of my weapon and also 50 cal rounds make neat painless holes in ethically raised venison.

 

[Steejee]

I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.

Just the fact that police cant keep gun data by law is so egregious to me, I cant even start to understand how the govt let it reach this level.

Nothing happened after Sandy Hook, so if little kids being shot up can't motivate doing something, I'm not sure what can. Perhaps several Sandy Hook/Vegas level shootings in rapid succession?

 

[linkboy]

Here's the thing a lot of people don't get about military weapons.

The M4/M16 has a selector switch that lets you go from safety to semi to burst.

The vast majority of the time, military members in combat are not shooting on burst mode. All it does is decrease your accuracy and waste bullets. They're firing on semi. This gives the person holding the weapon greater control over the firearm.

Read these answers regarding semi vs burst mode

The AR-15 and the M16/M-4 (the M4 is a smaller version of the M-16) with the the M16/M-4 in semi are essentially the same weapon.

 

[CyclopsRock]

That's very much incorrect, especially when it's a crowded area like a concert.

I may well be wrong. I have some experience of shooting both semi and fully automatic guns, and on the ground I can imagine how a fully automatic gun would be preferable (if you goal is to kill or hit as many as possible). But from an elevated angle, it seems to me that a semi-auto (especially with no need to reload, like if you have 11 guns handy) would have much less of a disadvantage.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.

Just the fact that police cant keep gun data by law is so egregious to me, I cant even start to understand how the govt let it reach this level.

I mean twenty white children were gunned down, and nothing changed. If that didn't change anything nothing is going to.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Aye that's definitely worth it to me, right now like I said, everyone can obtain a bump stock no problem. Not everyone has a 3D printer though, and while the internet exists, it's at least another hurdle knowing it's legality is in question for someone considering it.

Yeah just because people claim something is easy doesnt mean we shouldnt take steps to make it harder where ever we reasonably can

 

[Stinkles]

Here's the thing a lot of people don't get about military weapons.

The M4/M16 has a selector switch that lets you go from safety to semi to burst.

The vast majority of the time, military members in combat are not shooting on burst mode. All it does is decrease your accuracy and waste bullets. They're firing on semi. This gives the person holding the weapon greater control over the firearm.

Read these answers regarding semi vs burst mode

The AR-15 and the M16/M-4 (the M4 is a smaller version of the M-16) with the the M16/M-4 in semi are essentially the same weapon.

Also that if you're IN the military you have to register all your weapons on base and they can "come and take them" any time they like for almost any reason.

And for say, Brits wondering how a person can come to fetishize a hobby this passionately, think about it like this - a gun is a superpower - it means you can point at a person or a thing and destroy it instantly from a distance. Imagine YOU had the power of flight and thought the gubmint was coming to take it away.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Also that if you're IN the military you have to register all your weapons on base and they can "come and take them" any time they like for almost any reason.

Not QUITE, but absolutely not wrong either.

I signed off on on-installation weapons confiscations. They had to be justified, but ultimately it was a command decision. Things were murkier with people who lived off-base, through.

 

[The Last Wizard]

I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.

Just the fact that police cant keep gun data by law is so egregious to me, I cant even start to understand how the govt let it reach this level.

Lawmakers and those in government have to feel pain, it doesn’t matter to them if civilians are hurt. It’s similar to racism, people don’t feel bad unless it affects them personally.

 

[DrROBschiz]

As a sportsman and a hunter I would just like to point out that bump stocks massively increase the accuracy and safety of my weapon and also 50 cal rounds make neat painless holes in ethically raised venison.

Is there a way to get that level of performance in a hunting rifle without turning it into high efficiency death machine?

I want hunters to hunt but killing a deer is 1-2 good shots max

I feel like having a gun culture and industry that designs products to make gun owners feel like walking rambos (and marketing to people that want to moonlight as soldiers) was a huge mistep for our country

We glorify killing without respecting the weight and toll it takes on those standing after the fact....

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

As a sportsman and a hunter I would just like to point out that bump stocks massively increase the accuracy and safety of my weapon and also 50 cal rounds make neat painless holes in ethically raised venison.

so is a bump stock standard with bump stock fire or is that a separate kit?

 

[linkboy]

Also that if you're IN the military you have to register all your weapons on base and they can "come and take them" any time they like for almost any reason.

All of the Air Force bases I was stationed at required anyone living in base housing were required to register weapons with Security Forces and have them stored at the base armory.

 

[Mashing]

There's no good reason for bump stocks to exist. They should be illegal to be sold in the US.

 

[Stinkles]

so is a bump stock standard with bump stock fire or is that a separate kit?

I was kidding, Bump stock is SUPER dangerous since it literally uses kinetic explosions to fire rapidly (making it SUPER inaccurate). And 50 cal bullets would create instant hamburger or pink mist. A bump stock kit is usually a replacement stock that you buy separately and install where the old one was, but has moving parts that connect to the trigger mechanism.

 

[Alienous]

How would a bump stock aid home defense?

Gun fetishism needs a limit when it needlessly endangers lives.

 

[Flo_Evans]

so is a bump stock standard with bump stock fire or is that a separate kit?

"Bump fire" is really just a technique. You are using the rifles recoil to reset the trigger. A bump stock makes this easier but is not really neccissary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXrTq2Guk7c

 

[Johndoey]

I mean twenty white children were gunned down, and nothing changed. If that didn't change anything nothing is going to.

Exactly we are far far passed the point of expecting any reform. A significant amount of lawmakers in this country have and continue to make the very willful decision of putting their job security and bank accounts ahead of human lives. Sandy Hook was very much the last gasp for gun control.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

the moment 20 children got blown away in an elementary school and nothing changed, i think it became obvious that no tragedy would be big enough.

It doesn't have to be a big tragedy, it just has to be tragic to the right people.

From the numbers people were posting in the other thread Americans are overwhelmingly FOR gun control. It's the people in power that either have their hands tied or pockets filled that aren't doing anything about it. Maybe if they were the ones to experience these tragedies firsthand and realize the lives of loved ones mean more than money then maybe they'll wise up.

 

[Stoop Man]

Wait, Ive heard gun owners joke about the ATF enforcing shoestrings. I thought all conversion mods were illegal! How is this a thing?

 

[Akronis]

Was literally talking about with yesterday with someone. Gun nuts love to take ATF classifications and make the most ridiculous shit in an attempt to skirt the classification. Things like bump stocking and shouldering arm braces as stocks for SBRs are "legal" in that the ATF hasn't come down on them.

Really wish they would :/

Wait, Ive heard gun owners joke about the ATF enforcing shoestrings. I thought all conversion mods were illegal! How is this a thing?

A stock is not a conversion mod.

 

[Omegasquash]

It doesn't have to be a big tragedy, it just has to be tragic to the right people.

Members of Congress were shot at, and one was in the hospital. At this point, I don't think anything will change, except the quarterly adjusted sales expectations of gun manufacturers.

 

[DrROBschiz]

How would a bump stock aid home defense?

Gun fetishism needs a limit when it needlessly endangers lives.

It is irritating that gun enthusiasts dont acknowledge or accept fetishism as an issue

It causes them to lose respect for the killing power of the weapons they own while they chase this power fantasy of being a one man army

Im not trying to blanket accuse all gun owners here but the way gun owners are marketed to is abundantly clear and no one bats an eye

 

[Stinkles]

Wait, Ive heard gun owners joke about the ATF enforcing shoestrings. I thought all conversion mods were illegal! How is this a thing?

That part of our important oppressive bureaucracy is devoted to preventing the import of vintage Nissan Skylines.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Nothing will change. Sandy Hook happened and nothing changed. For all we know Trump thinks what Alex Jones says is real and this is all a hoax.

 

[Akronis]

It is irritating that gun enthusiasts dont acknowledge or accept fetishism as an issue

It causes them to lose respect for the killing power of the weapons they own while they chase this power fantasy of being a one man army

Im not trying to blanket accuse all gun owners here but the way gun owners are marketed to is abundantly clear and no one bats an eye

This is so fucking true it's not even funny.

 

[andythinkpad]

As a sportsman and a hunter I would just like to point out that bump stocks massively increase the accuracy and safety of my weapon and also 50 cal rounds make neat painless holes in ethically raised venison.

How about you change your fucking hobby?

 

[Stinkles]

How about you change your fucking hobby?

Sorry I was being sarcastic. Probably not appropriate right now.

 

[IamDodongo]

Defeatism is not helpful, guys.

I doubt it will get a single law change. So I doubt it's that important.

It is still important.

Even if the solution seems out of reach, we should always try to better understand the problem.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

How about you change your fucking hobby?

The post was sarcasm.

No one hunts with .50 cals.

 

[Sephzilla]

How about you change your fucking hobby?

Nobody hunts with 50 caliber ammunition

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

It is still important.

Even if the solution seems out of reach, we should always try to better understand the problem.

Well, the Pod Save America this morning really crystallized the issue. "What's your plan to prevent future mass shootings?" That's the operative question when it's abundantly clear that the status quo isn't the answer.

 

[Lucreto]

Nothing will change, kids were killed, Presidents and politicians were killed and nothing changed.

On the absolute outside chance of any changes to happen would be the heads of the NRA getting shot at by some nut who could get a gun backed on the deregulation they campaigned for.

It's lucky for them most deranged lunatics vote Republican.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

gun laws won't be changing anytime soon

 

[llien]

Gun laws will start changing once voters will start to care enough.

Or, heck, they actually are changing, because those who care push for looser controls.

 

[blackflag]

How would a bump stock aid home defense?

Gun fetishism needs a limit when it needlessly endangers lives.

It absolutely wouldn't aid home defense. It might aid you accidentally killing someone in your family or outside your house. It will aid in your insurance bill being higher from the extra damage.

It's weird, I have never even heard of these things and have a couple guns including an AR.

They should absolutely be outlawed and I'm surprised the ATF hasn't done it on their own. They have pretty broad authority to interpret existing rules.