Tom Brady suspended for 4 games; Patriots lose first-round draft pick; fined $1 mil

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That's the way these things usually are. Even more so when the individual or organization are particularly successful.

People like success typically. They're not fond of gaining that success illegitimately. From the inside it may look like hate because of 'success' from the outside it's hate generated from the idea of ill-gained success. Slight difference.

Hey lets not forget tuck rule and how it made his career.

Normally, I would say fuck the Raiders. In that case they got jobbed.

Just like jerry rice using illegal stickem in his gloves right? Except no one brings that up because everyone knows greatness when they see it. Brady is great like Jerry Rice is great.

So if Ray Rice smacks his wife around it's okay if you smack your wife around? Is that what I'm reading?
 
Did you just compare using stickum to spousal abuse?

The point is, if one is not being intentionally dense, is that comparing two wrongs doesn't make either one right.

Is it okay for someone to smack around their wife because Rice did? Hell no.

Is it okay for the Pats to cheat because Jerry did? No.

Now granted there is a big divide between assault and breaking the rules of the game, but the same busted logic can be used to justify any wrong in this case. Hence the comment.
 
People like success typically. They're not fond of gaining that success illegitimately. From the inside it may look like hate because of 'success' from the outside it's hate generated from the idea of ill-gained success. Slight difference.

Sorry, but no.

F*** the Canadiens. F*** the Yankees. I wish them no success ever. The sooner their stadiums burn down the better. F*** all of their players, coaches and fans. F*** their flopping ways, and f*** their bank roll.

People outside of a fan base will always find something to hate. Little things become monstrous. Big things become a permanent stain.
 
I must have missed the part where every other team got punished for illegally videotaping opposing teams and for deflating footballs before games.


Jets got caught illegally videotaping in 2006.. Which sparked the memo telling all teams not to do.. Which led to Patriots getting in trouble. I think Denver has been caught as well. Both teams have a history of cheating so not too shocking.
 
Jets got caught illegally videotaping in 2006.. Which sparked the memo telling all teams not to do.. Which led to Patriots getting in trouble. I think Denver has been caught as well. Both teams have a history of cheating so not too shocking.

Unfortunately McDaniels was involved somehow in the videotaping, I think. Or he was at least generally aware of it.

So you're saying the Pats were the only ones dumb enough to get caught?

Come back to the Patriots, Mech. Tom wants to personally apologize for any pain or anguish this unfortunate coincidence has caused you.
 
Jets got caught illegally videotaping in 2006.. Which sparked the memo telling all teams not to do.. Which led to Patriots getting in trouble. I think Denver has been caught as well. Both teams have a history of cheating so not too shocking.

Which happened because of McDaniels and his handpicked videotaper. Who if you follow the roots leads back to Belichick. He was promptly fired after that incident.
 
Jets got caught illegally videotaping in 2006.. Which sparked the memo telling all teams not to do.. Which led to Patriots getting in trouble. I think Denver has been caught as well. Both teams have a history of cheating so not too shocking.

Okay, that's 3 teams. Only 29 left.

Also, where are the other teams that have been punished for ball deflation?
 
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Everybody cheats.
It's a witch hunt.
Everybody cheats.
It's a witch hunt.
Everybody cheats.
It's a witch hunt.
Everybody cheats.
It's a witch hunt.
Everybody cheats.
It's a witch hunt.
Consume.
Obey.
Wear Uggs.
 
Okay, that's 3 teams. Only 29 left.

Also, where are the other teams that have been punished for ball deflation?

Let's be honest though, no one really cares if the balls are slightly under regulation. It's everything that transpired after the initial reports, which was a complete shit show, and the fact that it was the Patriots.
 
People like success typically. They're not fond of gaining that success illegitimately. From the inside it may look like hate because of 'success' from the outside it's hate generated from the idea of ill-gained success. Slight difference.



Normally, I would say fuck the Raiders. In that case they got jobbed.



So if Ray Rice smacks his wife around it's okay if you smack your wife around? Is that what I'm reading?
How is deflating balls and using stickem the same as domestic violence? Please explain in waiting.
 
It's pretty funny watching the Pats fanbase transform into a more cultish version of Yankees fans in response to their precious "classy" organization finally coming under fire.
 
Yeah you're using the word wrong to group very different things together to suit your weak argument. It doesn't work.

Your argument is as follows:

'Jerry used stickem, so it was okay that Pats deflated balls'

Two wrongs don't make a right.

That justification can be used to make anything seem innocuous.
 
Brady is a cheater. Brady was given an opportunity and seized it. A skinny fat fuck loser is now a 4-time Superbowl**** Winning cheater, super model fucking him with a strap on, skinny fat God of cheating. Cheaters are cheaters because they take the opportunities given to them to cheat to dishonor their legacy. They fail to realize that a true champion tries to gain a competitive advantage through hard work, talent and preparation through studying.



. fixed that for you.
 
I must have missed the part where every other team got punished for illegally videotaping opposing teams and for deflating footballs before games.

What does that even mean? lol

So you're saying the Pats were the only ones dumb enough to get caught?

Just the team people want to make the biggest deal about. I don't recall seeing a thread about the Falcons being busted for piping in crowd noise. If the Pats did that, we wouldn't have heard the end of it.
 
Well yeah, the Patriots were a total joke for the vast majority of their history, that just makes it even funnier.


Was thinking earlier how crazy this dynasty has been. 15 years of constantly being one of the best teams every year. Only bad year was When Brady went down and they still almost made the playoffs.

Thinking how long it's been going, you realize why all the other teams and fans act like they do. Simply they are jealous.
 
Was thinking earlier how crazy this dynasty has been. 15 years of constantly being one of the best teams every year. Only bad year was When Brady went down and they still almost made the playoffs.

Thinking how long it's been going, you realize why all the other teams and fans act like they do. Simply they are jealous.

That was still an 11 - 5 season and you bet your ass that no one wanted to see the Patriots in the playoffs.
 
Was thinking earlier how crazy this dynasty has been. 15 years of constantly being one of the best teams every year. Only bad year was When Brady went down and they still almost made the playoffs.

Thinking how long it's been going, you realize why all the other teams and fans act like they do. Simply they are jealous.

I am a Giants fan, I have nothing to be jealous of.
 
The Falcons were busted earlier this year. PEDs on numerous players throughout the years. The list goes on.

They were busted for piping in crowd noise, not video taping illegally or deflating footballs.

Brady wasn't suspended and the Pats' draft picks weren't taken for PEDs.
 
They were busted for piping in crowd noise, not video taping illegally or deflating footballs.

Brady wasn't suspended and the Pats' draft picks weren't taken for PEDs.

What are you going on about? I said every team cheats not every team illegally video records or deflate balls.
 
Pretty much. Due to the NFL's nature; fans are pretty lenient. Hell, people have even mostly gotten over Favre at this point. PEDs / Steroids / Gamesmanship level Cheating are more or less ignored.

I think people assume that behind the scenes all the teams, players and coaches are bending the rules or out-right cheating, this is especially the case when millions of dollars are on the line. It's not just football either, it happens in all sports. I guess we just learn to live with it. I don't think their is any sport, besides chess & e-sports, that has not had rampant PED abuse
 
What are you going on about? I said every team cheats not every team illegally video records or deflate balls.

And I'm saying the "don't punish them because everyone does it" argument is stupid.

1) Not everyone does what the Pats got busted for, and

2) It's still against the rules.
 
I think people assume that behind the scenes all the teams, players and coaches are bending the rules or out-right cheating, this is especially the case when millions of dollars are on the line. It's not just football either, it happens in all sports. I guess we just learn to live with it. I don't think their is any sport, besides chess & e-sports, that has not had rampant PED abuse

Even e-sports have PEDs.
 
<sigh>

Page 165. Read from there. They explain scientifically how a) the gauge switching wouldn't have mattered and b) show that it was incredibly unlikely it was done so. They even take your exact scenario and show how it wouldn't make a difference. Page 215 and 227 is the nail in the coffin on that front. Seriously? You aren't even trying to read the explanations. You're just looking for something to validate your own conspiracy theory.


There is no conspiracy theory. In fact, it isn't even up for debate: the officials literally did not know which gauges they used and when. Nobody disputes that.

The officials don't know how measurement was done pre-game. Pre-game measurements were not recorded. They don't know how measurement was done at half-time. The Colts half-time measurements make no sense.

Based on that alone I would throw out the case. For the officials to not care which gauges they were using, when the measurements are so different, proves all the data suspect and shows they did not care about the issue until later.

I'm not saying I think they didn't deflate the balls, just that the NFL's procedure was so faulty the case should be thrown out.

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As for the pages you just mentioned, they don't preclude either of the two scenarios I bring up.

1. The possibility that they used different gauges pre-game. Every scenario in the report uses the same gauge pre-game. Indeed, their method was to use the Colts balls as a control: they assumed the same gauge was used for the Colts and Patriots, and then they set up the experiment so that the Colts balls would end up at the measurements they eventually reached.

As a result, they omit the possibility that the Patriots balls were initially tested with the high gauge and the Colts with the low gauge. And they set the pre-game temperature lower explicitly to make sure the Colts balls would end up in the proper range. To be clear: they assume that the Colts balls were 13, using the same gauge as the Patriots balls, and based on that they lower the temperature.

If the Patriots balls were measured with the high gauge (which the official thought they were), then their halftime measurements are not surprising:

Had the Logo Gauge been used pre-game, there is a small window in which the Game Day results from both teams are theoretically explainable. However, this would require the testing of the Patriots footballs to have begun immediately upon entering the Officials Locker Room, before the balls had time to warm up.

The results for both teams can be explained if the Logo gauge (high gauge) was used for both and the Patriots balls were tested immediately before warming up. However, if a different gauge was used then the results are easily explained. If a different gauge was used, the temperature could have been higher in pre-game conditions, and the Patriots balls would fit perfectly.


2. It is unknown which gauges were used for the Colts halftime measurements. I think you will admit there is something very strange about those measurements.

The investigators never found the low gauge higher than the high gauge. The Patriots balls were all higher with the high gauge. But the same tester tested 3 of the 4 Colts balls lower, and one very high (12.95!). This result is completely out of the realm of anything the investigators found.

The report suggests that he likely switched gauges, but the anomaly ball casts doubt on the whole thing. Never in all their testing did they get results like that.

Since we don't know what gauges are used, the Colts halftime measurements may be overinflated. There could be more instances of the high gauge, or some other mistake leading to higher measurements; before denying that, recall again that the measurements are out of bounds with anything else the investigators found.

Yet the Colts 4 balls, with all the uncertainty of how they were measured, and the bizarre results, are used as the control. They are used to determine pre-game conditions, including lowering the temperature pre-game so that the Colts balls could reach the heights of their dubious halftime measurements.



I should also point out again the obvious problem of the numbers used. They could only test 4 Colts balls at halftime before running out of time. All we have to go on is a general statement that the Colts balls were around 13 to start the game. Yet we know the officials cared little about the results (they didn't know which gauge they used, and they didn't write down the results). Therefore it is not really supportable to assume a measurement of 13 for the 4 Colts balls. Especially when you consider the anomaly ball.
 
There is no conspiracy theory. In fact, it isn't even up for debate: the officials literally did not know which gauges they used and when. Nobody disputes that.

The officials don't know how measurement was done pre-game. Pre-game measurements were not recorded. They don't know how measurement was done at half-time. The Colts half-time measurements make no sense.

Based on that alone I would throw out the case. For the officials to not care which gauges they were using, when the measurements are so different, proves all the data suspect and shows they did not care about the issue until later.

I'm not saying I think they didn't deflate the balls, just that the NFL's procedure was so faulty the case should be thrown out.

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As for the pages you just mentioned, they don't preclude either of the two scenarios I bring up.

1. The possibility that they used different gauges pre-game. Every scenario in the report uses the same gauge pre-game. Indeed, their method was to use the Colts balls as a control: they assumed the same gauge was used for the Colts and Patriots, and then they set up the experiment so that the Colts balls would end up at the measurements they eventually reached.

As a result, they omit the possibility that the Patriots balls were initially tested with the high gauge and the Colts with the low gauge. And they set the pre-game temperature lower explicitly to make sure the Colts balls would end up in the proper range. To be clear: they assume that the Colts balls were 13, using the same gauge as the Patriots balls, and based on that they lower the temperature.

If the Patriots balls were measured with the high gauge (which the official thought they were), then their halftime measurements are not surprising:



The results for both teams can be explained if the Logo gauge (high gauge) was used for both and the Patriots balls were tested immediately before warming up. However, if a different gauge was used then the results are easily explained. If a different gauge was used, the temperature could have been higher in pre-game conditions, and the Patriots balls would fit perfectly.


2. It is unknown which gauges were used for the Colts halftime measurements. I think you will admit there is something very strange about those measurements.

The investigators never found the low gauge higher than the high gauge. The Patriots balls were all higher with the high gauge. But the same tester tested 3 of the 4 Colts balls lower, and one very high (12.95!). This result is completely out of the realm of anything the investigators found.

The report suggests that he likely switched gauges, but the anomaly ball casts doubt on the whole thing. Never in all their testing did they get results like that.

Since we don't know what gauges are used, the Colts halftime measurements may be overinflated. There could be more instances of the high gauge, or some other mistake leading to higher measurements; before denying that, recall again that the measurements are out of bounds with anything else the investigators found.

Yet the Colts 4 balls, with all the uncertainty of how they were measured, and the bizarre results, are used as the control. They are used to determine pre-game conditions, including lowering the temperature pre-game so that the Colts balls could reach the heights of their dubious halftime measurements.



I should also point out again the obvious problem of the numbers used. They could only test 4 Colts balls at halftime before running out of time. All we have to go on is a general statement that the Colts balls were around 13 to start the game. Yet we know the officials cared little about the results (they didn't know which gauge they used, and they didn't write down the results). Therefore it is not really supportable to assume a measurement of 13 for the 4 Colts balls. Especially when you consider the anomaly ball.

None of this matters though since Wells says they didn't really take the science into co sideration when reaching their conclusion.
 
One thing that hasn't been touched on at all through this... is how society is so damn willing to trivialize everything in an attempt to exonerate a person or group of any wrongdoing. Or, better yet, how we've set our standards so low, that we are even able to trivialize cheating in the first place.

As far as the suit goes...

Honestly, I don't think Brady/Kraft will sue the league. Not only because this is a sure way for Kraft to turn the Patriots organization into Raiders East, but also because I'm not too sure Brady wants to have his texts freely available for all to see.

The NFL has retroactively increased punishment after already handing out prior punishment before. So the NFL would do the same if it found anymore incriminating texts from Brady, right or wrong. Like, right now he's being suspended for cheating during a playoff game with the implication that he was cheating at least from the beginning of their playoff run or earlier. All things considered, Brady & the Pats can recover from that relatively quickly.

But, imagine if all of Brady's texts are revealed during the suit, and they found direct confirmation from Brady himself of cheating prior to the playoffs... or even worse, found texts incriminating Brady for cheating in the Super Bowl.

Brady would essentially be, to quote a character from GTA V, "D-O-N-E - FUCKED", as a player and as someone even remotely associated with the NFL. I don't think he wants that. If I'm him, even if I were completely innocent, I'm just taking this one on the chin and dealing with it.
 
None of this matters though since Wells says they didn't really take the science into co sideration when reaching their conclusion.


There are at least two alternate explanations for the texts.

1. Deflating was a method used to counteract over-inflating by the officials.

In support of this is the mention of the officials inflating the Patriots balls to 16. If Brady said he wanted his balls at 12.5, that could require deflating them after the officials over-inflated them. What if he wanted them deflated to 12.5?

Since there are other scenarios of teams manipulating their balls, including applying banned adhesive substances to them, and not being punished anywhere near this, I think the current punishment would be unjustified if Patriots personnel manipulated their balls, but only to deflate them to the legal limit. There are also cases of teams manipulating the pressure of their balls with sideline heaters, the same type of thing the Patriots are accused of, and not being punished at all.

2. Deflating was how they spoke of trying to get under-inflated balls past the officials.

In support of this is the faulty procedure of the officials. Depending on the gauge used, an under-inflated ball would make it through. In this case it is certainly dishonest, but if the officials are going to use gauges with measurements .38 apart, it can be fairly assumed that the NFL doesn't care about a .38 difference in pressure.
 
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