Tom Henderson - The PlayStation Portal was very successful and they are paying very close attention to the current handheld market
- Thread starter jm89
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
The discourse in this thread is alarmingly offbase.
First, the premise that Sony paying close attention to the market, means they aren't actively working on anything. It's already been confirmed that they are in fact working on a handheld.
I don't know how releasing a handheld in this day and age has any serious impact on software pipelines or how those two are at all related.
Then you have people like
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
thinking this is going to be based on the PS6. It won't be. It'll be based on the PS4 and PS5. The technology to have this natively play PS6 games does not exist, nor will it by 2028... Hell the PS6 itself might not even come out in 2028.
Mr.Phoenix
I think you're conflating a couple of things. The success of the portal has nothing to do with Sony's plans for a handheld. Both product lines can exist. They're obviously two very different price points. One is a system and one is a remote player and potentially a cloud player. It'll be very interesting to see what Sony does with the Portal and whether it can remote play PS6 games when the time comes or if you'll need to buy an updated portal.
For those asking why this is taking so long or why sony is asleep, the answer is they aren't.
You need to the right tech. Their plan is a handheld that plays PS4 games natively and PS5 games that have been scaled down and likely to re-scale them with PSSR. I believe that the existence of this handheld may be the reason why Nintendo may have delayed their Switch 2.
I think we could very well see this handheld release next holiday season, unless they decide to go ARM, in which it may push things out significantly further due to software reasons.
First, the premise that Sony paying close attention to the market, means they aren't actively working on anything. It's already been confirmed that they are in fact working on a handheld.
I don't know how releasing a handheld in this day and age has any serious impact on software pipelines or how those two are at all related.
Then you have people like
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
thinking this is going to be based on the PS6. It won't be. It'll be based on the PS4 and PS5. The technology to have this natively play PS6 games does not exist, nor will it by 2028... Hell the PS6 itself might not even come out in 2028.
Mr.Phoenix
I think you're conflating a couple of things. The success of the portal has nothing to do with Sony's plans for a handheld. Both product lines can exist. They're obviously two very different price points. One is a system and one is a remote player and potentially a cloud player. It'll be very interesting to see what Sony does with the Portal and whether it can remote play PS6 games when the time comes or if you'll need to buy an updated portal. For those asking why this is taking so long or why sony is asleep, the answer is they aren't.
You need to the right tech. Their plan is a handheld that plays PS4 games natively and PS5 games that have been scaled down and likely to re-scale them with PSSR. I believe that the existence of this handheld may be the reason why Nintendo may have delayed their Switch 2.
I think we could very well see this handheld release next holiday season, unless they decide to go ARM, in which it may push things out significantly further due to software reasons.
Giallo Corsa
Member
According to the Sony NPCs on Reddit :
- it's your router LOL
- it's your McDonald's intenet
- It's a you problem, my experience is flawless
- there's no "studder", it's all in your heads
Meanwhile, 3rd party apps made by people in their basements (Chiaki, PSPlay) have an option for frame pacing in their settings for this very exact reason (59.94Hz stutter) but Sony, a multi billion company apparently can't, not even after 9 months since its release
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Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
That one got me.
kazuyamishima
Member
They rarely give specific numbers even for their games, stuff like HFW or GT7 are possibly passed the 10m. mark by now, GOW:R was updated last December at 15m. units sold but nothing more.
we had a lot of info thanks to the Insomniac hack/leak for other games.
As for the Portal, is doing great numbers even in Japan and European countries.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I am aware... I am saying that Sony doesn't need to have a dedicated handheld. There is too much that goes into that as we are well aware. They can however just build on what they do have, their remote player and make that also become a cloud player. That could be their $200 handheld right there. I believe they stand a better chance of doing well there than making a dedicated $400+ handheld.
vivftp
Member
I'll reference the PS Now Wiki on this.
So no, there was never any actual cloud streaming from PlayStation on mobile. It was shown on slides as something they were planning, but that never materialized. Now they've had remote play on phones for years, just not cloud streaming
cireza
Member
So no need for sales numbers anymore ?
vivftp
Member
What do you mean anymore? Sony normally doesn't give sales numbers on peripherals and neither do the organizations that report these stats to the public. This is the data we have access to.
Now to elaborate on this data, the Portal is the best selling accessory in the USA and UK in 2024 by dollar amount, not by unit amount.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Could we first have a Portal 2.0 with VRR OLED screen, WiFi 6e or 7, proper Bluetooth support AND PS cloud game streaming?
As far as making an actual portable, I think best bet would be next year with RDNA 4.0 APUs if Sony really wants to get there. They can't bifurcate their development teams again.
As far as making an actual portable, I think best bet would be next year with RDNA 4.0 APUs if Sony really wants to get there. They can't bifurcate their development teams again.
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Lunarorbit
Member
What's broken with it?
vivftp
Member
Had been and currently is
It's the best selling video game accessory by dollar amount in the USA and UK for 2024
Zathalus
Member
Stutter caused by the display being locked to 60hz while the PS5 remote play outputs at 59.4hz. The mismatch leads to unfixable stutter. Other devices don't have this issues as third party programs have a setting to not drop frames.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I can't agree. Building out a handheld extends to them market opportunities that they can't reach with just a remote/cloud player.
There is a market for such a player and more so than most of us thought, but it's also true that such a device is useless in transportation and even most trips, exactly where the handheld market is most important.
A handheld could very well result in a renaissance in Japan.
The reality is the Switch 2 is almost certainly going to trend to the 400 or higher category. If Sony can come in at 450 or even 500, they'll be able to compete with Switch 2 and capture some element of market share there. It's a no brainer and I don't see the downside.
Lunarorbit
Member
Damn, I haven't had any stutter issue. That sucks.
Granted I've been playing "slower" 1 person games like dredge, fell seal, eiyudan and v rising.
Zathalus
Member
You do have the stutter issue unfortunately, just not everyone notices it, like bad frampacing in some games. The best way to notice it is to pan the camera around in a third person game and try and focus on something rotating in the environment. You'll notice a very brief stutter every 8-10 seconds or so. Or not, not everyone can pick it up.
Hudo
Member
There is a problem with that tho: The people on this very board love to shit on the Series S for "holding back" Xbox and consoles at large. So if Sony just made a down-specced handheld version of PS5, they maneuver themselves into the same situation Microsoft are in with the Series S. Having a new lowest common denominator. The PS5 Pro will make even less sense in this case.
If they make the handheld its own dedicated platform, they maneuver themselves into the same situation they were in with the Vita: No first-party to support it properly.
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Lunarorbit
Member
I've been meaning to replay GoT or days gone for a long time so I'll see if I notice it. Or the stellar blade demo which I still haven't tried.
jm89
Member
It's not the same situation.
MS have a parity clause for the series s forcing devs to make it work for it if they want to release on xbox consoles.
The new sony handheld could be like steamdeck, no parity clause to force devs to make games work for it.
Yeah that would mean not everything would be playable nativley on this handheld, but they can leverage remote play and cloud streaming to cover those games that don't get scaled down.
Giallo Corsa
Member
You just can't perceive it and that's totally fine.
Stutter is there, in all games , no matter the network conditions and it feels like the games go from 60 fps to 30fps and then back to 60 every 10 seconds or so, basically, this 59.94Hz stutter feels more framedrop(s) than a "stutter".
For me it's so bad that I've shelved my portal and instead now use my tablet for remote play which feels almost like a native experience since image quality is good with no stutters.
finalflame
Banned
Playing Diablo 4 right now on my iPhone via remote play using a Backbone. I'd welcome a more fully featured PS handheld.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Exactly! A portable PS4 machine is just STUPID! The Portal is good enough. If they wanted to do a PS Portal Pro, I'd like that. Give it an OLED screen and back paddles.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The discourse in this thread is alarmingly offbase.
First, the premise that Sony paying close attention to the market, means they aren't actively working on anything. It's already been confirmed that they are in fact working on a handheld.
I don't know how releasing a handheld in this day and age has any serious impact on software pipelines or how those two are at all related.
Then you have people like
For those asking why this is taking so long or why sony is asleep, the answer is they aren't.
You need to the right tech. Their plan is a handheld that plays PS4 games natively and PS5 games that have been scaled down and likely to re-scale them with PSSR. I believe that the existence of this handheld may be the reason why Nintendo may have delayed their Switch 2.
I think we could very well see this handheld release next holiday season, unless they decide to go ARM, in which it may push things out significantly further due to software reasons.
The bolded would be interesting and the other reason why Sony should do a PS handheld. If they can get PSSR running on it, and have games running at 720p on a 1080p OLED screen......then okay do that!
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Sales numbers would be better, of course. Sony never gives sales numbers for accessories though. But it would be better if we have it.
Having said that, the discussion was that "Portal wasn't a success because Sony didn't share numbers."
And the point is that Sony didn't share numbers because Sony never shares accessories numbers, good or bad. But we know that Portal is indeed huge success because it is literally the #1 ranked accessory on the market, for all console manufacturers, not just PlayStation.
vaibhavpisal
Member
They should just do a pc handheld since they are porting all games anyways.
That way it wont divide libraries and device will be useful to buyers if they falter.
That way it wont divide libraries and device will be useful to buyers if they falter.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Then you have people like
Ps6 is mostly going to be cross gen with engines that are highly scalable
Only way to get a full library is to require support from day 1. Console mode, handheld mode. Like the Xbox S/X, but more extreme
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Killer8
Member
It'll be dead on arrival.
Switch is a success because it works as both a portable and a home console due to the dock. Sony would be competing with themselves on the home front if they offered the latter functionality. And if they didn't, consumers will ask "why not?"
If the intent is to just provide scaled down PS5 games and backwards compatibility with PS4, that will also have problems. The former adds complexity to development and potentially major headaches if Sony mandates support in the same way that Microsoft does with the Xbox Series S. We're pretty late in the generation to be thinking about this now. It's easy to offer a scaled up SKU (PS5 Pro) later on, much harder to offer a scaled down one.
As for the rumor about it being aimed specifically at PS4 BC - I doubt anyone really cares enough to buy a $400 handheld just for that. The Portal already lets people stream PS4 games in the home. Whether people would buy a device which costs double (if not more) just to take old PS4 games outside the home is doubtful. Doubly so when their money is competing with getting a Switch 2 and all the Nintendo games that entails.
Speaking of games, anyone expecting games designed specifically for the device would be sorely disappointed. This isn't 2005. Nintendo doesn't even do that any more since the Switch coalesced all their development for one device. There's also the simple question: who would make them? Sony first party is balls deep in AAA single player and live service now. They gutted Japan Studio years ago, who contributed a massive amount to the PSP library.
Switch is a success because it works as both a portable and a home console due to the dock. Sony would be competing with themselves on the home front if they offered the latter functionality. And if they didn't, consumers will ask "why not?"
If the intent is to just provide scaled down PS5 games and backwards compatibility with PS4, that will also have problems. The former adds complexity to development and potentially major headaches if Sony mandates support in the same way that Microsoft does with the Xbox Series S. We're pretty late in the generation to be thinking about this now. It's easy to offer a scaled up SKU (PS5 Pro) later on, much harder to offer a scaled down one.
As for the rumor about it being aimed specifically at PS4 BC - I doubt anyone really cares enough to buy a $400 handheld just for that. The Portal already lets people stream PS4 games in the home. Whether people would buy a device which costs double (if not more) just to take old PS4 games outside the home is doubtful. Doubly so when their money is competing with getting a Switch 2 and all the Nintendo games that entails.
Speaking of games, anyone expecting games designed specifically for the device would be sorely disappointed. This isn't 2005. Nintendo doesn't even do that any more since the Switch coalesced all their development for one device. There's also the simple question: who would make them? Sony first party is balls deep in AAA single player and live service now. They gutted Japan Studio years ago, who contributed a massive amount to the PSP library.
vivftp
Member
The entire purpose of the Portal and of this hypothetical device would be to increase engagement within the PlayStation ecosystem and PSN. Making a PC handheld serves no purpose at all to Sony as it'd be running a competing store front (Steam) rather than their own store front (PSN). They want folks to be buying more games from PSN, spending mtx money on PSN and investing more of their gaming time into their own ecosystem. The PC initiative is to take advantage of the PC userbase (and eventually mobile) to increase the footprint of their live service games where there are additional monetization options and to bring in additional post-launch revenue on their single player titles.
The best way for them to go about doing this is to allow the device to run the entire PS4 library (and hence all the PS1, PS2 and PSP games on PSN), and then allow for select first/third party PS5 games to be downported to this device (much like they are for PC handhelds and will be for the Switch 2). That way they don't hinder the PS5 itself by making it mandatory for all games to also run on this handheld, and the handheld will still get a massive amount of support from first and third parties and an insane back catalog. Then remote play/cloud streaming can pick up the slack for games that can't be downported to this device.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
You're not entirely wrong, but you've made some serious mistakes in your analysis.
- The Series S is a console
- The tradeoff for a console doesn't have the same value than a handheld
- It was Microsoft's policies that games had to be on both platforms. That doesn't mean Sony has to make the same policy
- A PlayStation Handheld likely would sell more than the Series S
- They wouldn't make it a dedicated platform
- PC gaming is already in this situation, it doesn't make having a more powerful GPU less meaningful
jm89
Member
If sony are willing the resource into making this work. there is a path for it to work. Steamdeck has kinda done the legwork to show them the way.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Who said it has to have a full library?
There is no reason why this handheld has to play PS6 games, especially since most games on PS6 will be PS5 cross-gen games.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
The only way to make it successful is if it is a full library of games
Mibu no ookami
Banned
That's simply not true.
You leave it up to publishers/developers.
Look at Steamdeck... it doesn't play all games and only select games are optimized for it.
Not all 3rd party games are on the Switch, yet it's wildly successful.
The idea that every game on PS5 let alone PS6 would need to play on this handheld in order for it to be successful just doesn't track.
cireza
Member
I have no issue believing that the product is a success, I was being a bit facetious on purpose.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
No, it will never get good support
vaibhavpisal
Member
Handheld PS4 isn't all that different from a Steam Deck. Only thing you are missing out is BC games available.
With a downside that no new games will come to it outside few that Sony will make.
How badly they have supported PSVR and Vita, I don't think it will find any traction or make sense.
vivftp
Member
Please re-read my post. The concept I outlined would still allow it to receive games for the next several years, just not the entire PS5 library. If PC handhelds and Switch 2 can get 3rd party support for years to come then so can this hypothetical Sony handheld if it's in the same general ballpark for specs.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Believe it or not, but publishers want more options as well. It's why you see games optimized for the SteamDeck despite its small userbase.
It's not a lot of work to optimize for another platform, especially if there isn't a mandate for featureset.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
If it's not much work it should be mandated
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Except mandates can get you in trouble as we've seen with Baldur's Gate and Wukong.
A mandate was never needed, but is even less of a necessity for a handheld compared to a console. Microsoft's mistake was promising that the Series S would be equivalent to the Series X, with just lower resolution. They cut too many corners in the Series S to keep that promise.
One of the biggest mistakes I see on forums is people who think Sony needs to make the same mistakes Microsoft makes.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No worries, mate. All good.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Xbox's support problem is due to just not being very popular
Switch also has a mandate and no issues
Hudo
Member
Well, I wish I'd share you optimism. I think it will either end up as a second Vita or as a down-specced PS5 that either has no games (because no platform parity mandate, as you suggested) or the new lowest common denominator. I really don't see any positives in getting a handheld out for Sony. I think the PS Portal is actually the best thing they can do here without fucking themselves over.
Schmendrick
Banned
Because the PS4 architecture is not 1:1 translatable to portable hardware which means getting PS4 games to run natively on a handheld is a serious....serious headache and probably not worth the investment.