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[SlasherJPC]

I quite agree with you but I saw the first 60 minutes of Tomb Raider (Walkthrough video) and in my opinion it actually fit's very well.

Not mention half way through the game now, there has only been once instance where you MUST shoot someone in a graphic matter near the begining. Other then that (unless farther in the game) you DO NOT have to finish enemies off like that. Up to the player completly.

 

[plagiarize]

That's appropriate; a scene where a bunch of guys defile art.

I'm trying to figure out how any of the Tomb Raider sequels could be discounted as art. Are we talking about the ones that just reused the gameplay template the original game created, the later ones that based themselves more the Sands of Time trilogy, or the even later ones that based themselves on Uncharted (to varying degrees)?

Which ones aren't art, and why?

 

[Keavy_Rain]

While playing Far Cry 3 I worried I'd have the same issue with this game that I had with that game, where the character is a badass when I control them, but when the game's story kicks in they're all "Waah, waah, I'm scared, I don't wanna do this" and it killed the immersion.

That said, if the rest of Tomb Raider is as fun as the rest of Far Cry 3, worthwhile purchase.

 

[Cheska]

I've been on a pretty big media black out for this game but my curiosity is getting the best of me. How exactly is the violence in this game any different than a Call of Duty title, or any other game released this generation where shooting another human being was involved? People can be brutally murdered or vice versa in Far Cry 3, yet most gamers seem more accepting of that games violence.

The game is obviously a work of fiction, but realistically speaking if you were stuck on an island with people that were out to kill you, would you really just hop out in the open throwing flowers and acting like everything was okay? I'm pretty sure most sane people would do whatever it took to survive.

 

[Skilletor]

I've been on a pretty big media black out for this game but my curiosity is getting the best of me. How exactly is the violence in this game any different than a Call of Duty title, or any other game released this generation where shooting another human being was involved? People can be brutally murdered or vice versa in Far Cry 3, yet most gamers seem more accepting of that games violence.

The game is obviously a work of fiction, but realistically speaking if you were stuck on an island with people that were out to kill you, would you really just hop out in the open throwing flowers and acting like everything was okay? I'm pretty sure most sane people would do whatever it took to survive.

Maybe the people who have issue with the violence don't like or haven't played those games?

I couldn't care less about CoD or Far Cry.

 

[Nokterian]

Fun Joker is best Joker.

 

[kunonabi]

I love both young girls and ultra violence, I dont see the issue here, this is a video game.

and lara croft had one of the worst character designs in video game history. if you ever needed an example to show what en immature medium video games were you just had to point at big titted ridicoulusly dressed lara croft. I am amazed how many people jump out and actually defend that.

not saying killing hundreds of people brutally is in any way mature, but hell that relaunch was desperately needed.

So what if she had giant breasts? She was still a strong-willed, athletic, intelligent, independent woman who was well regarded by her peers for accomplishment. Being hot doesn't automatically make you less of a woman. She may have sold some copies based on her looks but her status for as role model for many young girls had little to do with that. The new Lara is still super hot anyway.

 

[Jarmel]

I've been on a pretty big media black out for this game but my curiosity is getting the best of me. How exactly is the violence in this game any different than a Call of Duty title, or any other game released this generation where shooting another human being was involved? People can be brutally murdered or vice versa in Far Cry 3, yet most gamers seem more accepting of that games violence.

The game is obviously a work of fiction, but realistically speaking if you were stuck on an island with people that were out to kill you, would you really just hop out in the open throwing flowers and acting like everything was okay? I'm pretty sure most sane people would do whatever it took to survive.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the shooting in of itself, the issues are the conflict with the characters and story. In COD, you're a soldier so it's expected that you can kill people with little effect. The characters themselves are relatively blank anyway. Also the narratives in COD aren't exactly held in the highest regards and in general, really aren't intended to be taken very seriously. The issue with TR is the focus on the narrative and characters. The violence seemingly isn't done in some sort of insightful manner or parody and thus any sort of strong contrast or conflict is highlighted.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I hope that at least reviewers are complaining about the violence. I mean, there's problem with Uncharted, and there's a even more serious problem with Tomb Raider since

Spoiler

She feels guilty right after killing her first attacker.

If anything it should be like MGS4 where

Spoiler

Snake would vomit and would hear a voice (from MGS1) saying: You enjoy the killing, that's why!

At least Uncharted didn't take the mass murderer into its story, but since Tomb Raider does, they should pay attention to that in gameplay, which in my opinion, with those finishers, they are not. Lara seems to be enjoying even. Jesus H. Christ.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I love both young girls and ultra violence

Remind me not to run into you in the milk bar

 

[iNvid02]

While playing Far Cry 3 I worried I'd have the same issue with this game that I had with that game, where the character is a badass when I control them, but when the game's story kicks in they're all "Waah, waah, I'm scared, I don't wanna do this" and it killed the immersion.

That said, if the rest of Tomb Raider is as fun as the rest of Far Cry 3, worthwhile purchase.

im wondering if the crew in here will be able to top the douchebag friends in far cry 3, they were pretty great

 

[The P of Poland]

I really think some of the complaining regarding Lara killing a bunch of people is overdone somewhat.

People thinking she isn't supposed to be good enough to kill people that efficiently need to remember: it doesn't take all that much skill to aim and shoot a weapon. Just make sure the sights align and pull the trigger.
Same with her willingness to engage so easily. People are misunderstanding the central narrative. Lara isn't just trying to survive here: she's trying to rescue the people shipwrecked with her, who are being held captive by the murderous scavengers. In order to do that, she necessarily has to get involved in pitched firefights.

I'm more concerned that this narrative might take away from what has always been the central focus of Tomb Raider: tomb raiding. Puzzle solving. Things like that.

 

[antitrop]

Far Cry 3 is a hilarious mess of a game narrative.

But a hell of a lot of fun to play.

 

[RagnarokX]

I'm trying to figure out how any of the Tomb Raider sequels could be discounted as art. Are we talking about the ones that just reused the gameplay template the original game created, the later ones that based themselves more the Sands of Time trilogy, or the even later ones that based themselves on Uncharted (to varying degrees)?

Which ones aren't art, and why?

I'm not sure I was exactly calling them art or making an art argument. In my head I was thinking of them not liking the artworks as they were and destroying them to create something superficial that they enjoy more. Similar to how people that didn't like the old Tomb Raider games are enjoying "finally getting interested in the series" now that it's nothing like it was. Joker's crew is in a museum without any of the art that defines the museum and "expanding their horizons" by narrowing the horizons to fit themselves. It's meaningless to get people who weren't interested before interested in something if you have to destroy almost everything about it but the name to do so.

Obviously the gif was meant to say that Tomb Raider fans should expand their horizons to accept the change in direction, but there are plenty of games that already do what this game does and few that do what Tomb Raider does, and I'm sure most of us play and enjoy those games. The complaints are about the loss of something unique; the reduction of gaming variety.

 

[derFeef]

Far Cry 3 is a hilarious mess of a game narrative.

But a hell of a lot of fun to play.

Exactly.
And TR looks at least a bit interesting in terms of story, even if it's a bit cheesy.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

This has to be better than Far Cry 3

 

[G-Fex]

This has to be better than Far Cry 3

Pfft who cares about Far Cry

 

[Derrick01]

This has to be better than Far Cry 3

I expect it to have many of the same gameplay problems. Lots of useless side stuff, broken RPG elements, and a laughably bad story. That's not gameplay I know, but I still expect it to suck.

 

[Papercuts]

Far Cry 3 horribly failed at making Jason turn into a warrior, the story had a lot more potential but the entire game seemed to just not be paced correctly. Needed a slower build up for everything, because it didn't take long for the hunting stuff to be out of the way and you to be a walking god.

 

[pakkit]

I don't think anyone is complaining about the shooting in of itself, the issues are the conflict with the characters and story. In COD, you're a soldier so it's expected that you can kill people with little effect. The characters themselves are relatively blank anyway. Also the narratives in COD aren't exactly held in the highest regards and in general, really aren't intended to be taken very seriously. The issue with TR is the focus on the narrative and characters. The violence seemingly isn't done in some sort of insightful manner or parody and thus any sort of strong contrast or conflict is highlighted.

You're splitting hairs. The cognitive dissonance that exists in videogames where we have "likeable" protagonists maiming a micronation worth of people in order to progress through a story has always been absurd. The difference now is that Lara Croft is presented, initially, as a fragile young woman down on her luck. But almost all the reviews so far show that, at some point in the narrative, Lara emerges as the heroine and the game becomes revenge porn. In that way, the violence is meant to thrill the viewer, the same "fuck yeah" mentality that has driven Quentin Tarantino's career for decades.

There a few reasons I think Tomb Raider in particular is getting attention.

a. It's a shift in tone for the series. The violence has always been overplayed, but so too has the cheese and the mythical elements. Campiness allows the consumer to forgive a lot of violence it might not otherwise.

b. Lara is a woman. I'm not saying this is the main reason or anything. But seeing her character preform death defying stunts regularly and kill without remorse is jarring compared to the archetype we are used to. When it's a man with beefy arms, we know he is "programmed" for violence and his physicality is obvious so we can expect the ridiculous stunts.

c. Crystal Dynamic's PR team suggested that this game would both be empowering to women and that the "player would want to protect Lara." These are contraries. A male empowerment fantasy includes "save the damsel." Still, I think this is more an imagined error, and it's mostly the fault of assumption on gamers part, and Crystal Dynamic's perhaps saying too much instead of letting the game speak for itself.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Surpised at he reviews, but never been a TR fan. Looks pretty though.... maybe try it out since this is going to be a new point.

I expect it to have many of the same gameplay problems. Lots of useless side stuff, broken RPG elements, and a laughably bad story. That's not gameplay I know, but I still expect it to suck.

What game do you not expect to suck?

 

[Derrick01]

What game do you not expect to suck?

Anything not being made for the mass market probably has a legitimate chance to not suck nowadays.

 

[derFeef]

Far Cry 3 horribly failed at making Jason turn into a warrior, the story had a lot more potential but the entire game seemed to just not be paced correctly. Needed a slower build up for everything, because it didn't take long for the hunting stuff to be out of the way and you to be a walking god.

That's sadly a problem with Ubisoft and their many many studios working on one game. Crystal should not have that problem so the game should at least feel coherent.

 

[Jarmel]

You're splitting hairs. The cognitive dissonance that exists in videogames where we have "likeable" protagonists maiming a micronation worth of people in order to progress through a story has always been absurd. The difference now is that Lara Croft is presented, initially, as a fragile young woman down on her luck. But almost all the reviews so far show that, at some point in the narrative, Lara emerges as the heroine and the game becomes revenge porn. In that way, the violence is meant to thrill the viewer, the same "fuck yeah" mentality that has driven Quentin Tarantino's career for decades.

And that's a major problem. If you look at the leads in Kill Bill or Django, they both have a long history of violence, either towards them or other people. The Bride had a long background of murdering people before the events in the films even took place. Django had literally been beaten his entire life and even then had some issues with violence in the films. The violence in the QT films are valid in regards to the background of the characters. Hell, IB had a Jewish squad taking vengeance. Not to mention, a lot of the work done in QT films is done in a satirical manner. In many games where you have a protagonist being able to kill people in hordes, there is some background to that character already that allows them to do so. Even before the events in Uncharted 1, Drake was already accustomed to killing people. Another example is Travis Touchdown in NMH where he mows people down left and right. The audience doesn't seem him bitching about his first kill. That's fine if they want to do a transition from naive to killer, however it seems to have been done in a haphazard manner.

 

[pakkit]

That's fine if they want to do a transition from naive to killer, however it seems to have been done in a haphazard manner.

We don't disagree. I'm curious how they could have done it differently though. I want to play that scenario to see if it's as jarring as people have said.

 

[brian!]

c. Crystal Dynamic's PR team suggested that this game would both be empowering to women and that the "player would want to protect Lara." These are contraries. A male empowerment fantasy includes "save the damsel." Still, I think this is more an imagined error, and it's mostly the fault of assumption on gamers part, and Crystal Dynamic's perhaps saying too much instead of letting the game speak for itself.

yeah this is kind of why waiting for the game is exciting to me, I'm excited to see how they will tackle all these problematics.

like I'm not really expecting something terribly cohesive, but it's nice to see games where these themes are at the forefront
the trailers have shown lara desperately killing one guy, but also mowing a bunch of people down w/ arrows too

 

[Kinyou]

It doesn't fit any of the media shown in regards to her character. That's probably a more apt way of putting it. Joel in The Last of Us, supposedly has an extremely ruthless background and is supposed to be a dark character. Joel's extreme acts of violence are justified in regards to his background and the circumstances in that world. The shotgun blast at the end of the E3 trailer wasn't supposed to glorify violence but just show how fucked up that world is. Lara purposefully lifting someone's head up to blow their brains doesn't fit the "I'm just trying to survive" aspect that the media has demonstrated so far. That isn't the actions of a person just trying to make it through events but rather that of someone enjoying themselves.

Exactly. And it's just weird that Crystal Dynamics torpedoed their own game like that.

 

[Zhund0r]

goody goody goody

 

[tjohn86]

Did anyone who preordered through Amazon get the Scavenger hunt key emailed to them?

It seems like it may come after the game is out and thats pretty pointless.

 

[brian!]

Exactly. And it's just weird that Crystal Dynamics torpedoed their own game like that.

yeah that is definitely something that stands out
but like the contradiction is interesting, the question becomes "what made her like that" for me

 

[Fabrik]

This is really poor taste from the developers. If they were zombies, I wouldn't mind but here...man this medium is so immature sometimes.

 

[RagnarokX]

yeah that is definitely something that stands out
but like the contradiction is interesting, the question becomes "what made her like that" for me

But the game doesn't really answer that question.

 

[brian!]

But the game doesn't really answer that question.

=( I'm assuming you got early access

I wasn't expecting it to, I'm probably coming into this game with a lot of imagined shit (it being important that Lara is a girl, etc.) that's important to me, but maybe not important to the developers

the transition from reluctant killer to creative murderer is still interesting to me though, even if the game doesn't explicitly address it, compared to games that take that for granted

 

[The perfect Dark]

But the game doesn't really answer that question.

Well...it's like every other third person shooter
Kill or be killed.

 

[RagnarokX]

=( I'm assuming you got early access

I wasn't expecting it to, I'm probably coming into this game with a lot of imagined shit (it being important that Lara is a girl, etc.) that's important to me, but maybe not important to the developers

the transition from reluctant killer to creative murderer is still interesting to me though, even if the game doesn't explicitly address it, compared to games that take that for granted

The entire first 2 hours has been shown through official demonstrations, and videos of people who got the game early have been on youtube already.

 

[SirButterstick]

I'm really looking forward to this. Anyone know of any deals for the PC version?

 

[antitrop]

the transition from reluctant killer to creative murderer is still interesting to me though, even if the game doesn't explicitly address it, compared to games that take that for granted

The reviews I watched spoiled that. It seems to be one small moment that lasts for 20 seconds or so, and is promptly discarded for the rest of the game while Lara slowly attempts to make the island extinct of the human species.

 

[Ragus]

Willbthis be avaible on PSN from day one?

 

[Harlequin]

how is it scoring so well, shouldn't she be dead from getting impaled like that?

There are those stories of people who could still walk a few steps after having their heads chopped off. Like I've said in another TR thread I don't think it's that unrealistic. The signal from her brain to her body telling it to try and get away got sent before the spike pushed through it. So it's already out of the brain and on its way through her neural pathways and can reach the body and make it move for a few more seconds.

 

[Audioboxer]

You decide

Awesome!

I enjoy gratuitous violence in my games, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. If a game has you killing other humans, it's only 'normal' there will be lots of bloods and guts. I do think it can be out of place, sometimes it is simply for comical effect, and a lot of the time it's taken far too seriously I assume due to the media constantly going after games.

Plus after finally seeing Django last night, I'm on a hunt for gore.

 

[Harlequin]

Did anyone who preordered through Amazon get the Scavenger hunt key emailed to them?

It seems like it may come after the game is out and thats pretty pointless.

I think Scavenger Hunt access is exclusive to GameStop preorders, isn't it?

 

[Effect]

Well...it's like every other third person shooter
Kill or be killed.

Kill or be killed is shooting the guy in the chest and then moving on. Not when he's already down and seemingly out, pushing the gun under his chin, waiting to make sure things line up, and then pulling the trigger. That's what is bothering me about the scene. If there was struggle over the gun and that result in him being shot in the face that's one thing. Same with if she's below him and he's peaking out over a railing. By all means pull him over so he falls to his death. This is something else.

 

[tjohn86]

I think Scavenger Hunt access is exclusive to GameStop preorders, isn't it?

Get the Amazon Exclusive "Final Hours Edition," a $5 Credit, plus access to the Scavenger Hunt Pre-order Tomb Raider and receive the Amazon exclusive Final Hours Edition, which comes with an exclusive Art Book, In-Game Skin for Lara and a digital copy of Geoff Keighley's, "The Final Hours of Tomb Raider" for the Kindle Fire, an access code for the pre-order Tomb Raider Scavenger Hunt to unlock DLC items and a chance to win prizes, and the Shanty Town Multiplayer Map - This ramshackle area features steep climbs, multiple ziplines for quick escapes, and deadly traps to set for your enemies. The art book will be a PDF file delivered to your Steam library. Codes to access the digital bonus offers will be e-mailed to you within two business days after the game releases. You will also receive a code for the pre-order Scavenger Hunt to unlock DLC items and a chance to win prizes. Offers valid on all existing pre-orders.

I emailed them. Bleh.

 

[tjohn86]

I'm really looking forward to this. Anyone know of any deals for the PC version?

$36 on amazon with CAGROCKS

 

[Chinner]

so is this game actuallly good or are our previous critisims still totally valid and its just video game journalists noticing negatives but not actually deducting from overall review scores?

 

[Raptor]

Awesome!

I enjoy gratuitous violence in my games, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. If a game has you killing other humans, it's only 'normal' there will be lots of bloods and guts. I do think it can be out of place, sometimes it is simply for comical effect, and a lot of the time it's taken far too seriously I assume due to the media constantly going after games.

Plus after finally seeing Django last night, I'm on a hunt for gore.

Dude, Im even mad cause the head stays intact, I wanted for it to explode in gibs and blood spraying like in Kill Bill or something.

 

[Raitosaito]

so is this game actuallly good or are our previous critisims still totally valid and its just video game journalists noticing negatives but not actually deducting from overall review scores?

Depends on who you ask

 

[kunonabi]

so is this game actuallly good or are our previous critisims still totally valid and its just video game journalists noticing negatives but not actually deducting from overall review scores?

pretty much this.

 

[The perfect Dark]

Kill or be killed is shooting the guy in the chest and then moving on. Not when he's already down and seemingly out, pushing the gun under his chin, waiting to make sure things line up, and then pulling the trigger. That's what is bothering me about the scene. If there was struggle over the gun and that result in him being shot in the face that's one thing. Same with if she's below him and he's peaking out over a railing. By all means pull him over so he falls to his death. This is something else.

Agreed. I think the "finishing moves" are a matter of personal taste. It's not out of place (imo) but I can understand the criticism

 

[sublimit]

so is this game actuallly good or are our previous critisims still totally valid and its just video game journalists noticing negatives but not actually deducting from overall review scores?

Many reviews have actually confirmed our previous critisisms yet they still scored the game with 8's mostly thanks to the beautiful graphics.