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[Moaradin]

snip

I really want to know what you'd think of Mob Psycho 100.

 

[Seda]

If we were watching OG DBZ right now instead of Kai, Frieza would have just killed Dende.

Just to further the comparison:

If we started One Piece at the beginning, the Straw Hats just got to Skypiea.

If we didn't skip the second half of OG Naruto, we'd be in the middle of 'Filler Hell' somewhere.

 

[BassForever]

And if they hadn't canceled Bleach we'd likely be in another filler arc Kappa

 

[Crocodile]

I mean why both reading or watching anything if you know 95% of the time the protagonist is going to win? It's not the end result but the how that keeps these things interesting. Watching as the odds are further and further stacked against our heroes and how they'll inevitably figure out a way to overcome the adversary the face is the enjoyable part.

In One Punch Man I not only know that Saitama is going to win, but I know how he's going to win as well (one punch lol) and that he won't get any credit for it due to any arbitrary number of reasons the series comes up with. The characters IMO are not funny or interesting, at best they've got a good design like Genos or Tatsumaki, at worst I actively find them annoying like Speed of Sound Sonic (lol dick punch jokes) or King.

One Punch Man loses me because it's attempts to subvert expectations are too obvious since it's few clever moments get repeated over and over again to the point it becomes predictable and uninteresting. Wouldn't it be funny if our hero was so strong he's actively bored? Sure but that joke gets old really quick. Isn't is really entertaining how (spoilers from the manga and next weeks episode)

Spoiler

the guy who got credit for all of Saitama's accomplishments was actually a loser? Sure if the series hadn't already pulled this with licenceless rider earlier

. Wouldn't it be funny if Saitama saved the day in a single punch but caused a crap load of destruction in his wake by punching a meteor? I suppose, but they already pulled this exact same joke in episode 1 when Saitama beat the giant man.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I find Saitama's world and characters as boring as he finds them, for me the series peaked like 5 chapters in and the anime 2 episodes in and after that I just got tired of seeing the same jokes and set ups over and over again. Major threat occurs, a bunch of heroes go out to stop it in typical shonen action where they job one by one while people think they "have a chance", Saitama for whatever hilarious reason is slow to arrive on the scene, he beats the baddie in one punch, people then give him little to no credit for reasons, and then Saitama and Genos go home. Even when the series spices it up later on and gives the non Saitama characters mooks to fight and beat in a more traditional shonen sense the action while well done isn't interesting because I don't care about these characters and the jokes they make aren't funny. I feel the same way watching wave after wave of hero show up in One Punch Man as I do watching wave after wave of random soul reaper show up to fight random arracar. Going back to the manga for a bit the story arc that just finished

Spoiler

metal bat fighting a giant monster then fighting that main villain of the series

I have no reason to care about the guy I'm supposed to root for, either thing he's fighting against, and the joke at the end

Spoiler

with the sister might be clever... if the series hadn't already pulled the same stunt with sweet mask earlier during the alien invasion stuff

.

For a gag/parody/comedy series, I shouldn't be able to see the joke coming from a mile away, that is cardinal sin one and it's the one OPM breaks repeatedly. This is especially egregious when people say "OPM is so brilliant it subverts expectations" but doubling down on subversion makes that the standard and expected.

I will give the series credit where it is due (fantastically animation/drawing, strong character designs, strong voice acting in the dub) but that's about it and those alone don't redeem my main issue with the series.

The outcome of the vast majority encounters in action anime/manga are eminently predictable if you understand context, what best drives the narrative and characters forward, etc. Certain series also follow patterns in how they resolve situations ("You mean Ichigo/random DB character X was able to win the battle because they got a new power up! WHAT A SHOCK!"). I'd argue in fact that if one consistently can't predict the outcome of conflicts then either you aren't paying close enough attention or the writer is more interested in shock value than a narrative that flows in a logical manner. So I'd say, and you seem to agree, that the destination is way less important than how you get there.

I won't mention future fights for fears of spoiling others but it doesn't matter than Saitama beats the House of Evolution, Sonic or a Meteorite in a punch. What matters is that those encounters and the interactions had between characters is funny and the action is amazing. The in-between stuff (action animation and choreography, delivery, character interactions, etc.) is all there and done well - the value isn't in the "final punch".

I think at the end of the day its just as Jarate says - you personally don't think the humor works. To be clear, you're 100% entitled to that opinion - I'm not trying to take that away from you. That's subjective to the point I'm not sure how to argue against that (or that there is even a need to). I just don't think "there are no stakes so I can't enjoy this" really flies because I don't think that's required for an action series that is written and constructed in the way OPM is. I also think stakes are often overrated - not because they aren't important or that they don't lead to some incredibly well written fights but because I think many shows have far fewer stakes than they actually let on.

I also feel a lot of the critiques you've made (repetitive arc structures, only the main protagonist can save the day, others taking credit for the hero's work, etc.) aren't unfair per say but apply to many others series as well - shows that do things even worse than OPM.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Just to further the comparison:

If we started One Piece at the beginning, the Straw Hats just got to Skypiea.

If we didn't skip the second half of OG Naruto, we'd be in the middle of 'Filler Hell' somewhere.

It'd have been really nice to watch all that One Piece and Naruto.

 

[Mizerman]

Just to further the comparison:

If we started One Piece at the beginning, the Straw Hats just got to Skypiea.

If we didn't skip the second half of OG Naruto, we'd be in the middle of 'Filler Hell' somewhere.

That'll be unbearable.

 

[gamerguy2002]

Kai hurts the series in a lot of ways. They miss out on some great animation sequences that is filler fighting. Also, no Falcouner music sucks ass!

DBZ has not aged that well, especially the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga

Dont' know if the Faulconer project ever completed but theirs also a complete Yamamoto score soundtrack fix out there.

BOOO, they should've kept the driver's license episode.

Yes, agreed. I hope they redubbed that somewhere along the lines of all those re releases so even if its old DBZ script it would have Kai voice acting.

And killed his grandpa.

And fought a band of instruments.

Spoiler

In fact, looking back, why weren't the namekians as varied as they were in Dragonball. What a cop out.

Because they were classified as actual demons still for some reason, Demon King Piccolo becomes technically part demon when he split from Kami and Kami becomes part God/Guardian. DB is weird...

 

[Elfforkusu]

[OPM comments]

I think this is all reasonable, and part of why I prefer it in manga form. Seeing stuff animated is fun, but I think the tongue in cheek tone of the series is inherently at odds with all the dramatic animation sequences that you have to do in an adaptation (because otherwise, what was the point?)

 

[Moaradin]

I think this is all reasonable, and part of why I prefer it in manga form. Seeing stuff animated is fun, but I think the tongue in cheek tone of the series is inherently at odds with all the dramatic animation sequences that you have to do in an adaptation (because otherwise, what was the point?)

I think that's exactly the point. It's the same in the manga with the highly detailed art.

The webcomic is a different story.

 

[Elfforkusu]

I think that's exactly the point. It's the same in the manga with the highly detailed art.

The webcomic is a different story.

The manga is allowed to play with the pace more.

I guess a way to put it that's probably a little mean is, the manga feels more like disposable entertainment. Which is what OPM is. I mean that in the nicest way though, since I really enjoy it.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

So I've been playing Path of Radiance over the weekend and I got to say, it feels weird playing a FE game with a story that doesn't have its head up its ass like Awakening and Fates did. The gameplay is also pretty great as well.

Also got a new Avatar, finally. We now have two FE Tellius avatar's in Toonami Gaf.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Do you guys think that VAs who are usually cast in side roles get bummed out? Always the comic relief character, never the protagonist?

 

[Grexeno]

Perhaps because all the recent JRPG discussion has made its way into my brain via a sponge-like action, I bought Trails in the Sky on PC.

 

[Zonic]

Do you guys think that VAs who are usually cast in side roles get bummed out? Always the comic relief character, never the protagonist?

Maybe some of them, but I would imagine they'd just be glad to get hired to keep their job & pay the bills.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Perhaps because all the recent JRPG discussion has made its way into my brain via a sponge-like action, I bought Trails in the Sky on PC.

Good man. Enjoy your TITS.

 

[Seda]

Path of Radiance is definitely in the argument for "best Fire Emblem". I have a soft spot for Radiant Dawn too - despite some missteps, I can appreciate how ambitious it was in places.

Trails in the Sky just isn't really my thing (I stopped halfway through SC, need to get back to it) but it's easy to see the writing and world-building is tops in the genre.

 

[Mizerman]

Do you guys think that VAs who are usually cast in side roles get bummed out? Always the comic relief character, never the protagonist?

On one hand, some are probably a bit peeved about that. On the other hand, some probably enjoy just being there and putting food on the table. Considering how VA is treated here vs. Japan.

 

[Hellwarden]

Trails in the Sky is easily the best RPG I've played in years. Superb world building and story telling.

I really need to play the second chapter.

Do you guys think that VAs who are usually cast in side roles get bummed out? Always the comic relief character, never the protagonist?

Some of them probably do. That said, I always imagine playing the plucky sidekick to be a bit more fun than playing the hero. The sidekick often gets to the funny guy or girl.

 

[Raxus]

Man, Tales from Borderlands is frikkin' fantastic. Wish I played this sooner.

 

[Ross61]

So I've been playing Path of Radiance over the weekend and I got to say, it feels weird playing a FE game with a story that doesn't have its head up its ass like Awakening and Fates did. The gameplay is also pretty great as well.

Also got a new Avatar, finally. We now have two FE Tellius avatar's in Toonami Gaf.

What do you mean "head up it's ass"??

 

[BassForever]

The outcome of the vast majority encounters in action anime/manga are eminently predictable if you understand context, what best drives the narrative and characters forward, etc. Certain series also follow patterns in how they resolve situations ("You mean Ichigo/random DB character X was able to win the battle because they got a new power up! WHAT A SHOCK!"). I'd argue in fact that if one consistently can't predict the outcome of conflicts then either you aren't paying close enough attention or the writer is more interested in shock value than a narrative that flows in a logical manner. So I'd say, and you seem to agree, that the destination is way less important than how you get there.

I won't mention future fights for fears of spoiling others but it doesn't matter than Saitama beats the House of Evolution, Sonic or a Meteorite in a punch. What matters is that those encounters and the interactions had between characters is funny and the action is amazing. The in-between stuff (action animation and choreography, delivery, character interactions, etc.) is all there and done well - the value isn't in the "final punch".

I think at the end of the day its just as Jarate says - you personally don't think the humor works. To be clear, you're 100% entitled to that opinion - I'm not trying to take that away from you. That's subjective to the point I'm not sure how to argue against that (or that there is even a need to). I just don't think "there are no stakes so I can't enjoy this" really flies because I don't think that's required for an action series that is written and constructed in the way OPM is. I also think stakes are often overrated - not because they aren't important or that they don't lead to some incredibly well written fights but because I think many shows have far fewer stakes than they actually let on.

I also feel a lot of the critiques you've made (repetitive arc structures, only the main protagonist can save the day, others taking credit for the hero's work, etc.) aren't unfair per say but apply to many others series as well - shows that do things even worse than OPM.

Because I don't find OPM funny, the repetitive nature of its arcs becomes even more apparent. You can over simplfy everything into "good guy wins" but that does a discredit to all the other events in a story that lead up to the heroes winning. In OPM all the actions of everyone besides Saitama are completely pointless, they aren't stalling for time for Goku/mc/saitama to appear, they're just doing pointless well drawn/animated generic shonen things. In most other (good) shonen series, the way the mc wins, the actions the heroes and villains take that enables that victory to come about is what is interesting not the end result, thats just the payoff for all the drama. I can get that some people find OPM funny the same way I can get some people find Family Guy funny, but in both series I'm always left going "...oh thats the """joke"""..." Or "so they're gonna do a .... Yep they did the joke I expected....yawn". Even if the humor was generally stronger I'm not sure if it would help to fix my issues with the actual story itself which for a gag series OPM cares about its overall plot far more then usual which I find is also a detriment to the series.

---

About the game talk

Path of Radiance I feel is the overall best FE game released in the west (competed witn 4 seisen no keifu in Japan). The story doesn't try to overly complicate things like what I think Seda was alluding to with his Awakening and Fates comment without going into spoilers.

Trails world building has spoiled me when it comes to other games similar to (ironically) how Murata's opm art has spoiled me on manga. Both are so far ahead of their contemporaries in those areaa it makes other series seem like they aren't trying. I know that isn't fair since most people aren't as gifted and insane as falcom and Murata even if it leads to slow pacing of their releases they can be worth the wait.

 

[SAB CA]

(O_O )

( O_O)

(O_O )


..... I still kinda miss Inuyasha being on Toonami.

(-_- )

Just felt like sayin' that, as I happen upon a nostalgic theme from the Jin-Roh Movie. "Pride" and "Grace", both occasionally in my head, but I hadn't been able to place them for the past few years...

 

[Regiruler]

Bass you're letting gaming side infect you too far.

This is a warning. You should know exactly what triggered this. Nothing irritates me more than driveby pileons, and I assumed you were better, but apparently not.

 

[Jarate]

Nephenee is a god tier Fire Emblem waifu

Fire Emblem 7 is the best western Fire Emblem, although I do prefer Path of Radiance. Its a shame the game sold like garbage because apparently westerners don't like console Japanese Srpgs

 

[Jarate]

What do you mean "head up it's ass"??

I think he men's pants on head stupid, like the most recent games. Path of Radiance is probably the best of the western fire emblem stories.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

What do you mean "head up it's ass"??

I think he men's pants on head stupid, like the most recent games. Path of Radiance is probably the best of the western fire emblem stories.

Yeah, that. Got the two mixed up by mistake. Although that said, there are characters in the 3ds games that have their head up their ass (IE they act like utter idiots).

 

[Mizerman]

Nephenee is a god tier Fire Emblem waifu

Fire Emblem 7 is the best western Fire Emblem, although I do prefer Path of Radiance. Its a shame the game sold like garbage because apparently westerners don't like console Japanese Srpgs

Yeah, I heard Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn didn't exactly sell well when it came out. Though it's looked at fondly nowadays.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Yeah, I heard Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn didn't exactly sell well when it came out. Though it's looked at fondly nowadays.

The former is a contender for the rarest Gamecube game to find on the market. My copy of PoR costed me 140 bucks, and that's considered below market value in some circles.

RD is not as bad as PoR in part because of a reprint that came out a few years ago but It still costs around 75 bucks used on Amazon USA though. I got lucky with mine and found a used copy for 40 bucks at Gamestop when I was visiting the US.

 

[Regiruler]

I think he men's pants on head stupid, like the most recent games. Path of Radiance is probably the best of the western fire emblem stories.

Wait, it was developed by a western studio?

Or is that simply to differentiate it from the anime as fuck entries?

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Wait, it was developed by a western studio?

Or is that simply to differentiate it from the anime as fuck entries?

It was developed by IntSys, as it always was. The main difference is that the writers in PoR knew what the heck they're doing unlike the writers for Awakening and Fates.

 

[Jarate]

Wait, it was developed by a western studio?

Or is that simply to differentiate it from the anime as fuck entries?

no, there are 7 entries in the Fire Emblem series that have never come to America. There's the first 6 and the unreleased DS ones. The DS is the only one with a "good" translation, 6 is playable, and everything else can only really by played by people who can handle terrible engrish and terrible bugs, and horrid menu translations. There are 5 games that im just unable to play, and so we use it to separate the ones not released in english and the ones released in English

There's a small part of the community that has played everything in the series, and they are the hardest of the cores of the Fire Emblems communities. So apparently, Thracia 776 has the best story in a Fire Emblem game? I can't say if that's true or not, because nintendo are fucking idiots and never released Fire Emblem into the states. So, basically every Fire Emblem in the west has had a bad story other then Path of Radiance (which, dont get me wrong, Path of Radiance's story is purely mediocre. It does nothing special) and Radiant Dawn is a love it or hate it storywise. Everything else has been hammy, garbage, waifus and anime. People say 7 is the best in the series, and I agree, because it's gameplay design is really fucking good. It has a lot of fun characters to use (who doesn't enjoy using Hector as a death machine?) which is something very important to Fire Emblem. It also rewards you for beating the game with an alternative narrative that has Hector becoming the main character, and this game mode is also, "the hard mode." It's a great gameplay design as it doesnt add too much time, but gives you two alternative paths to play through (which is why im not horribly against there being two fire emblems coming out. more Fire Emblem is always a good thing). Also, they achieved not one but 3 fun to use and different heros. Compare this too 6 with Roy, and it's absolutely so much more fun too play.

Fire Emblem is fine having bad stories, cause at the end of the day, the game is about the gameplay. Birthright was an affront to mankind, an absolute disaster, literally one of the worst stories ever created by mankind, worse then 13 year old Fire Emblem fanfiction, and most people are here going, yeah, those games are much better then Awakening. Why? Because even though Awakening has a far more competent story, and a much better cast of characters, the map design in it was a lot weaker then Birthgright/Conquests.

 

[Jarate]

Im joining in on this new avatar revolution (i'll only keep mine for a day or so)

 

[BassForever]

Seisen no Keifu has gotten a redone translation that fixes a lot of the translation issues and bugs. Its in open beta and it's pretty spectacular. Fire Emblem 3 mystery of the emblem has like a 99% finished translation thats fully playable its old though if you can deal with old jrpgs its still pretty fun if mostly replaced by the fan translated ds game. Fire Emblem 1 and 2 are fully translated but 1 isn't worth playing outside of curiosity compared to 3 book 1 or the first ds remake. FE2 is the FF2 of the series its radically different and hard to recommend but its got a lot of neat ideas that didn't return until fates.

 

[Hellwarden]

I recognize people more by their avatars than their names.

So when people change their avatars I think we got a new member of Toonami-gaf.
But then I realize it's just Jarate.

 

[Regiruler]

ManGod you're going to be mistaken for ZhugeEx with that.

EDIT: By ManGod I mean Jarate mistaken for ManGod mistaken for ZhugeEx, apparently.

 

[Jarate]

Hello, im new to the group, and here are my likes and dislikes

likes
Ping Pong the animation, I will willingly shill for this product
shitposting
manime
Epiduo
Benvolence
The Shu-Han Dynasty
Bringing about the return of the Han Dynasty
Liu Bei
Zhang Fei

dislikes
Naruto
Badime
that weird shoulder animation in that gif man god posts all the time from SAO
Lu Meng
Wu
Wei (I had a fling with Cao Cao for a bit, don't ask)
Lu Bu
Yellow Turban Rebellion

 

[Mizerman]

It's Guan Yu!!

He's come to destroy us!

 

[Man God]

Lu Bu 4 lyfe.

Anyways Jarate is pretty accurate about Fire Emblem. It has three sorts of fans.

A. Ones that play it because the game is awesome.
B. Ones that play it because the story is fantasy anime as hell, and always has been. It just updates what anime cliches it uses. FE1-4 are late 80's. 5-7 are early 90's 8-12 are a weird batch, early 2000's and two 80's as hell remakes. And Awakening and Birthright/Conquest/Revelations (and Idol Emblem) all embrace anime tropes from the past ten years!
C. Ones that enjoy the games because they are awesome and love that animu shit. This is where I fall for the most part.

Awakening did so well embracing it's animeness that they may have gone overboard with the sequels. Birthright and especially Conquest are amazing games with shitty ass stories.

 

[Line_HTX]

(O_O )

( O_O)

(O_O )


..... I still kinda miss Inuyasha being on Toonami.

(-_- )

Just felt like sayin' that, as I happen upon a nostalgic theme from the Jin-Roh Movie. "Pride" and "Grace", both occasionally in my head, but I hadn't been able to place them for the past few years...

That Jin-Roh movie though...

 

[Man God]

 

[Regiruler]

This isn't as lewd as I thought it was going to be.

 

[B-Dubs]

This isn't as lewd as I thought it was going to be.

The lewd comes after that.

 

[Man God]

FMP is tame as hell until The Second Raid. There's a few panty shots and some full frontal ken doll nudity in the first two series and then The Second Raid comes along and has twincest, full frontal nudity, decapitations, f bombs glore.

 

[B-Dubs]

FMP is tame as hell until The Second Raid. There's a few panty shots and some full frontal ken doll nudity in the first two series and then The Second Raid comes along and has twincest, full frontal nudity, decapitations, f bombs glore.

All wrapped in giant robot action and some spycraft. In terms of telling a single story it was likely the best season.

 

[SAB CA]

Hm, I had no idea FMP got lewder as it went on. Still wanna watch it one day, I've only ever seen a few eps here and there...

That Jin-Roh movie though...

It's been such a long time since I watched it, that I barely remember it cohesively now. Feel like it deserves a re-watch now... I think I even have it *twice* on DVD for some reason...

 

[Line_HTX]

Hm, I had no idea FMP got lewder as it went on. Still wanna watch it one day, I've only ever seen a few eps here and there...

It's been such a long time since I watched it, that I barely remember it cohesively now. Feel like it deserves a re-watch now... I think I even have it *twice* on DVD for some reason...

I bought the SAVE collection of Beck without realizing I already own a better print, the Viridian collection.

>_>

 

[Man God]

Hm, I had no idea FMP got lewder as it went on. Still wanna watch it one day, I've only ever seen a few eps here and there...



It's been such a long time since I watched it, that I barely remember it cohesively now. Feel like it deserves a re-watch now... I think I even have it *twice* on DVD for some reason...

First series: 70 Percent high school comedy. 30 Percent Military Mecha Drama. Lewdness (1-10) 3.

Second series: 130 Percent high school comedy. One of the best things ever made. Lewdness (1-10) 5.

Third series: 30 Percent high school comedy. 70 Percent Military Mecha Drama. If the first two series are PG and PG 13, TSR is a hard R. It's basically the Hellsing Ultimate of Light Novel High School Military Mecha shows. It's also much more compelling than the first season. Better writing, real emotion, much better animation. The only reason it's not the best season is that the second season, Fumoffu, is literally perfect.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

Maybe one day I'll be able to try Path of Radiance whenever it goes below $100.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Maybe one day I'll be able to try Path of Radiance whenever it goes below $100.

Be prepared for a long, long, long wait.

 

[Man God]

It and RD will be on a Virtual Console one day.

I have three copies of each.