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[Crimson_Echidna]

Super is creatively bankrupt. I expect Cell to return when they run out of other threats to fight. Maybe Nappa will get brought back and give an uber power up.

For good or bad, Cell is not coming back. I believe the animators mention that he has to complicated of a design so he's a pain in the butt to animated.

 

[JadedWriter]

For good or bad, Cell is not coming back. I believe the animators mention that he has to complicated of a design so he's a pain in the butt to animated.

They drew that motherfucker weekly 20 years ago.

 

[caliph95]

They drew that motherfucker weekly 20 years ago.

And i think Toriyama hated having to draw him

 

[PapaGreg95]

I dunno about Asta, but I don't mind most shounen protags. Like, Naruto's fine when he's doing stuff unrelated to Sasuke.

...that said, yeah, I hope in the future, shounen protagonists end up more like Deku or something.

edit: Whoa, you're shitting on Luffy? Boo.

For me personally I kinda want another Yusuke Urameshi type protagonist or Johnny Joestar, characters who insult or snark at other people even the main antagonist

 

[Mizerman]

Maybe a weird opinion, but I think Super is at is best when it's being a bit irreverent.

And maybe a bit fanficy.

It's not weird. It's true, it's damn true.

 

[JadedWriter]

And i think Toriyama hated having to draw him

Then he should have designed a simpler character. Makes me wonder who Togashi hates drawing...shit, he can't even drawn Gon right at times.

 

[HStallion]

Then he should have designed a simpler character. Makes me wonder who Togashi hates drawing...shit, he can't even drawn Gon right at times.

Togashi just hates drawing in general at this point

Spoiler

I can't blame him with his back issues.

 

[JadedWriter]

Togashi just hates drawing in general at this point

Spoiler

I can't blame him with his back issues.

"Gon gonna be...scribbles...I'll put my effort into dis chicken dinner though."

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

Then he should have designed a simpler character. Makes me wonder who Togashi hates drawing...shit, he can't even drawn Gon right at times.

That's what he ultimately did with Buu. Even (Final Form) Freeza had a pretty minimalist design. Cell was an odd duck, probably the result of Toriyama writing by the seat of his pants during the Android saga.

 

[caliph95]

Toriyama for an author of one of the biggest franchises in anime and possibly in fiction is a lazy motherfucker

 

[cntr]

I don't really mind Super being "creatively bankrupt". It's the execution that matters way more to me, and Super has been pretty good at that! But ymmv.

It's not weird. It's true, it's damn true.

Amen, though.

That's what he ultimately did with Buu. Even (Final Form) Freeza had a pretty minimalist design. Cell was an odd duck, probably the result of Toriyama writing by the seat of his pants during the Android saga.

Wasn't Cell a result of editor interference, anyway?

For me personally I kinda want another Yusuke Urameshi type protagonist or Johnny Joestar, characters who insult or snark at other people even the main antagonist

Oh, yeah, that'd be great! Or crazy-ass protagonists, like Ryoma. Then again, My Hero Academia spoilers,

Spoiler

Deku ends up heading in that direction, which is why I like him so much.

Toriyama for an author of one of the biggest franchises in anime and possibly in fiction is a lazy motherfucker

Man, have you seen the schedules manga authors have to deal with?

After a few decades of that, I totally understand Toriyama getting lazy.

 

[HStallion]

Toriyama for an author of one of the biggest franchises in anime and possibly in fiction is a lazy motherfucker

Still more productive than GRRM

 

[JadedWriter]

That's what he ultimately did with Buu. Even (Final Form) Freeza had a pretty minimalist design. Cell was an odd duck, probably the result of Toriyama writing by the seat of his pants during the Android saga.

Freeza having a minimalist design for the final form makes sense since it got more complex with each transformation, it's probably even a trope.

 

[caliph95]

Wasn't Cell a result of editor interference, anyway?

Which if it was true he didn't like drawing Cell could be how he ended up with his design, first Gero would be the bad guys but editor doesn't like how it was an old guy and a fatso, then Lapis Lazuli but the editor didn't like gems as bad guys care for a bunch teenage thugs and i thing cell had to go through transformations until Perfect before it was perfect

Freeza having a minimalist design for the final form makes sense since it got more complex with each transformation, it's probably even a trope.

Bishonen Line

 

[Ray Down]

Toriyama for an author of one of the biggest franchises in anime and possibly in fiction is a lazy motherfucker

He plays it fast and loose.

 

[cntr]

I'm glad modern shounen are tending towards being pre-written rather than pantsed. Toriyama and everyone else took the easy route and found out it was secretly really fucking hard.

 

[caliph95]

I'm glad modern shounen are tending towards being pre-written rather than pantsed. Toriyama and everyone else took the easy route and found out it was secretly really fucking hard.

reminds of a quote from the OP thread

Oda says that when he was a kid reading Shonen Jump, most of the stories tended to be inconsistent. He liked Kinnikuman around that time.
During that period of Jump, they'd introduce a new character(s) in a big fashion one week and the next week, those characters would quietly be phased out.

Mangaka prioritized writing a fun and interesting story above all else and thus consistency took a backseat.
Kids also didn't really care about just issues and would read it regardless so when Oda decided to become a mangaka, he decided he would make everything consistent.
The past and future and all characters would be connected and wouldn't be phased out like in the past. One Piece represents this objective.

However, currently he says that people have become rather nagging about manga. They will look through the various inconsistencies or contradictions with a more fine tooth comb.
He said that in the past Shonen Jump was read almost exclusively by kids but now adult also read jump so that may be one of the reasons for this "new" nagging.
Now, Mangaka, in order to satisfy these older readers, have to make sure everything is correct and doesn't become inconsistent.

Oda himself feels slightly responsible for this. However, when creating a story, making sure everything is connected or all the events have been properly foreshadowed of hinted; "rules" like these do not exist.
He says that, as a challenge, he created a story where everything is consistent but normally you can freely create stories without having to do all of these.
Stories like "the nutcracker and the mouse king", which were created to entertain people are born through this "free" writing.

http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=42229&page=42&p=3791544&viewfull=1#post3791544

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

However, currently he says that people have become rather nagging about manga. They will look through the various inconsistencies or contradictions with a more fine tooth comb.
He said that in the past Shonen Jump was read almost exclusively by kids but now adult also read jump so that may be one of the reasons for this "new" nagging.
Now, Mangaka, in order to satisfy these older readers, have to make sure everything is correct and doesn't become inconsistent.

Fucking adults and their obsession with continuity.

 

[cntr]

Ooh, nice quotes from Oda.

Yeah, people do kind of put too much on consistency nowadays. I like consistency, but execution's a lot more important.

Fucking adults and their obsession with continuity.

"Grown-ups never understand anything by themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them"? :v

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

Amen, though.

Wasn't Cell a result of editor interference, anyway?

Here's the interview with one of them.

Fuyuto Takeda: So you hadn't planned on Cell appearing at all?

Akira Toriyama: That's right. I liked No. 19 and No. 20 just fine. And I liked the initial Cell fine as well.

Fuyuto Takeda: The bug-like one?

Akira Toriyama: But Kondō-san said ”He looks ugly. Of course, he can transform.", so I had no choice but to transform him into his second-form.

Yū Kondō: Was that how it was?

Akira Toriyama: And then you were really awful, Kondō-san. ”This time he looks like a moron, doesn't he? Hurry up and make him into his perfect-form." you said.

Yū Kondō: But he really did look like a moron. (laughs)

Akira Toriyama: With second-form Cell as well, I liked him well enough. Actually, I had wanted him to play a more active role. But since I was told he looked stupid, I had no choice but to change him. (laughs) So I made him into his cool-looking perfect form, which was to Kondō-san‘s liking.

 

[cntr]

editors are the worst

they're important but they're also the worst

 

[caliph95]

People say kids can't understand the difference between fact and fiction, but that's bullshit," he says. "Kids understand that real crabs don't sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction, and the adult starts asking really fucking dumb questions like 'How does Superman fly? How do those eyebeams work? Who pumps the Batmobile's tires?' It's a fucking made-up story, you idiot! Nobody pumps the tires!"

.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

At the end of the day, Toriyama was an immensely talented artist, with a bit of a self-deprecating streak. Even if he talks about how shit the hours were and how much he wished he could quit and how he hated the hard work, that doesn't mean he didn't still keep on going.

.

This is actually what popped into my head reading the Oda quote.

 

[Morlas]

Toriyama can do what he likes as far as i'm concerned because 5 years ago i didn't think i'd ever get more Dragon Ball, but now there's been 2 pretty good movies and a pretty good television series all about a bunch of characters that have been with me since i was like 5 years old and that's amazing.

 

[cntr]

These are the villains Toriyama's editor thought looked lame, by the way:

 

[caliph95]

Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.

.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

^ That's still a great panel.

Honestly, the Android and Cell sagas are so steeped into my brain that I literally cannot fathom an arc where Toriyama stuck to his guns and made 19 & 20 arc-long villains.

 

[HStallion]

These are the villains Toriyama's editor thought looked lame, by the way:

Gero was black?

 

[Zonic]

why is gero black

that doesn't match the anime

wtf, inconsistency

 

[cntr]

that might be a coloring thing but yeah the manga has a lot more black people than the anime

 

[zulux21]

.

hmmm
superman can fly because the radiation from our yellow sun gives him super human powers

and batman has the power of money

isn't that like common knowledge.

 

[cntr]

these are a pretty good set of articles on Toriyama's art and comics art in general, btw

 

[Ray Down]

why is gero black

that doesn't match the anime

wtf, inconsistency

Robin still has the wrong eye color and had the wrong skin color early on.

 

[caliph95]

Robin suffers from reverse tanning

 

[cntr]

I almost forgot about this

 

[HStallion]

There is no need for proper anatomy in Jojo

 

[JadedWriter]

There is no need for proper anatomy in Jojo

Gravity and bones only exist to facilitate the posing.

 

[caliph95]

Gravity and bones only exist to facilitate the posing.

"Gravity" "JoJo"
*nam flashback*

 

[Zonic]

Oh man, if we're talkin' Jojo & consistency....

One will be brought up when Part 3 airs (in the very first episode) & a big one in Part

Spoiler

6

.

 

[caliph95]

Araki and consistency are in a complicated relationship considering things that were recton dropped due to time and other reasons and things conveniently forgotten

 

[JadedWriter]

Oh man, if we're talkin' Jojo & consistency....

One will be brought up when Part 3 airs (in the very first episode) & a big one in Part

Spoiler

6

.

Let's not even discuss consistency with the existence of motherfucking

Spoiler

Gold Experience.

 

[caliph95]

Remember when in JoJo

Spoiler

stands were supposed to be based on Tarot Card and Dio's Coffin

 

[cntr]

Wonder when they'll announce SDC.

 

[caliph95]

YOU'RE WELCOME - Rick and Morty

 

[Zonic]

Wonder when they'll announce SDC.

My guess is (assuming they go) Anime Expo since it's right at the beginning of July & AoT2 ends July 15th.

 

[HStallion]

"Gravity" "JoJo"
*nam flashback*

The X Gon Give It To Ya part from Rick and Morty is one of the funniest things I've seen in the last few years, especially the bit that comes after the credits.

 

[cntr]

gipsy gon' give it to ya

 

[HStallion]

gipsy gon' give it to ya

Deus Ex Gon Give It To Ya is the far superior mash up combo!

The top comment:

Michiel van den Bos1

As the original composer of this, this made my day 

 

[cntr]

I'm obligated as a giant robot dork to prefer the Pacific Rim one!

Spoiler

that said yeah that one's really good

 

[caliph95]