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Torchlight II |OT| Good things come to those who wait

Izayoi

Banned
Does this really happen, or is it theoretical/assumed? I don't join random games. You've joined a bunch of games with a flagged character and got kicked 9 out of 10 times?
I tested it out the other day with a throwaway character, and I got kicked multiple times. Maybe a respec mod will prevent any of this from happening, but I doubt it.

A total respec potion should be easily moddable when the GUTS gets released so you should probably hang on to that toon of yours.
From the way that dev post was worded, it sounds like people wanting to restat may be shit outta luck unless they reroll.
 
You think even modded respecs will flag for cheating?

How does this flag work, anyway? Surely it's a local thing and could thus be hacked out.
 

Wildesy

Member
Absolutely loving this game, it's top notch. It feels like highway robbery getting this game for $20! I really hope Runic's success sends a message to other game companies re their pricing strategies. I felt much easier jumping in at that price point than forking out $60-80 and being disappointed. It's a significantly better game than the first one so it almost feels wrong getting it at the same (/similar? I can't remember what TL1 went for) price.

I started out dual wielding pistols as an Outlander which was enjoyable but found I was dying way too much. I was initially playing alone and the Outlander really struggles with mobs I found. Rerolled for a 2H Engineer and haven't looked back. Charge building (I use 1 point in Dynamo Field and main attack Onslaught) and then using Forcefield is potent, throw in the Healbot and then my Gunbot going bannanas on the outside and I'm unstoppable.

Hard to think of any real issues. The graphics are a little murky at times and it can be hard to identify enemies, sometimes I'm just clicking in hope. The environments/areas are all beautiful and unique (second Djinni's quest was an absolute stand out for me) though which I really appreciate. I love that the areas randomise if you reroll too, I was shocked at how much difference it made to the game; almost felt like I was running through completely different areas at times in my second run.
Also although I think the music fits well, it wouldn't hurt for them to get a little bit creative here. There is one track that I swear is the same actual track from Diablo 2. It's not a major problem though because like I said, it still fits the mood well. Oh another small thing was just that I wished the different pets had distinctive bonuses. I heard one of the Runic guys saying he didn't want to deter people from playing their favourite animal, but if the bonuses were balanced I don't think it would've mattered.

Overall, very happy though. Props to Travis and the gang!

Also dumbarse question no doubt, but I don't play games online much (if at all), just wonder what closed online is? I've see people lamenting its implementation quite frequently in this thread.

Totally fucked up my Outlander. Focused way too much on Dex at the beginning, and now I'm seriously hurting because of it. I really wish they'd allow respecs for at least the first month because now I've got a useless level 35 character that I'm going to end up deleting. Really sucks.


Embermage, followed by Outlander.

I've found your stats aren't really as important as your gear and skill setup, although the Outlander is really tough on Veteran/Elite playing alone. I wouldn't restart just because you put too much in dex though, besides dex is still a good stat for Outlanders. If you hold off a bit though you'll run into an enchanter who can imbue items with attributes bonus, I remember running into one around your level and I just found another one in Act 3. I've got a massive amount of skill points just by getting one level of enchantment done on most my items by him. I'm an Engineer with a base focus of 10 and after enchanting it's like 70 odd I think.
 

Izayoi

Banned
You think even modded respecs will flag for cheating?

How does this flag work, anyway? Surely it's a local thing and could thus be hacked out.
Read Morokh's post. It seems like they are intending to flag people for modding things that might be considered "cheats".

As for it being stored locally, I'm sure it is, but depending on how hard Runic worked to hide it, it could take a while for people to figure out how to reverse it - and when they do, people who are actually cheating will no doubt abuse the ability to remove it as well. I think this probably could've been avoided with a proper respec allowed in-game - even if it were expensive, it would've been better than leaving people who want to play legitimately high and dry like they are now, especially right after launch when nobody knows whether their build is going to be viable at endgame or not. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but eh.
 
Do you have to leave the light to get to it?

I already know it's a good place to grind since it resets every time and has several elite mobs.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I think it's lame considering respec as cheating. If you don't provide a full guide in game (or even basic knowledge like how many points you end up getting), how the hell is anyone supposed to plan it out? Something can be very powerful in the first two acts and then from 3 on totally blow ass. High-level strategies are totally different, but if you spent all your points on maximizing for lesser play, you're just fucked. Being able to take back the last 3 skills is worthless.

I understand the nature of progressing slowly and earning your way, but sending someone to climb a tree blind and then saying they have to completely start over because they ended up on the wrong branch is stupid. That's not about earning things anymore, it's just about tedium, and there is already enough of that with NG+ and whatnot. Why make people start over who knows how many times until they figure out what works well?
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Oh goddamn I have to go through all that again right lol.

Do you have to leave the light to get to it?

I already know it's a good place to grind since it resets every time and has several elite mobs.

Yep, its at the end of the moving light part. Instead of moving onto the teleporter, wait until a lever appears.
There are a TON of secret areas in this game, we simply dont know how to access most of them yet.
 

L00P

Member
Man, going full minion master on my engy is pretty op. My pet summons a lot of shit too and is pretty tanky himself. The things you summon don't seem like they die, unlike in Torchlight 1. I really enjoy this build.

It does get kind of boring since your henchmen does all the dirty work, so I made an outlander with the intention of not having any summons whatsoever. Just me and my wolf. I expect to die a lot
 
I think it's lame considering respec as cheating. If you don't provide a full guide in game (or even basic knowledge like how many points you end up getting), how the hell is anyone supposed to plan it out? Something can be very powerful in the first two acts and then from 3 on totally blow ass. High-level strategies are totally different, but if you spent all your points on maximizing for lesser play, you're just fucked. Being able to take back the last 3 skills is worthless.

I understand the nature of progressing slowly and earning your way, but sending someone to climb a tree blind and then saying they have to completely start over because they ended up on the wrong branch is stupid. That's not about earning things anymore, it's just about tedium, and there is already enough of that with NG+ and whatnot. Why make people start over who knows how many times until they figure out what works well?
D2, bruh.
 
I think it's lame considering respec as cheating. If you don't provide a full guide in game (or even basic knowledge like how many points you end up getting), how the hell is anyone supposed to plan it out? Something can be very powerful in the first two acts and then from 3 on totally blow ass. High-level strategies are totally different, but if you spent all your points on maximizing for lesser play, you're just fucked. Being able to take back the last 3 skills is worthless.

I understand the nature of progressing slowly and earning your way, but sending someone to climb a tree blind and then saying they have to completely start over because they ended up on the wrong branch is stupid. That's not about earning things anymore, it's just about tedium, and there is already enough of that with NG+ and whatnot. Why make people start over who knows how many times until they figure out what works well?

I, personally, like some restriction on respec just to give decisions some impact but I agree that their solution is way too limiting. Make the respec potion something acquirable in game, make it non-trivial to obtain but not painfully difficult. This would let you accumulate respecs as you go but since there is some cost, time or gold, whatever, there would still be some impact with your decisions.
 

Wildesy

Member
Yep, its at the end of the moving light part. Instead of moving onto the teleporter, wait until a lever appears.
There are a TON of secret areas in this game, we simply dont know how to access most of them yet.

Oh right, I'd already gotten that without realising it was a secret. I just went back to run through that room again because I read your post and now the game has glitched! I was going through with another person who started before me, so they had their own light circle which was ahead of mine. They went over the bridge and I was still fighting back in the first section and now my light has stopped moving and I can't go forward..?! I can't use a waypoint in there either.

Weird... I'm guessing it's got something to do with this not being an active quest for me or something.
 

fresquito

Member
Do golden keys disappear if you quit before using them? I have all map covered, I'd swear i found the golden key in a previous session, but the golden chest is closed. Anybody had the same problem?
 
If Torchlight 2 had respecs I would seriously play each character once and never again, because there'd be no need.

Right? I mean why would you ever roll up a new character?

Games like WoW are ok in this respect because there are so many classes to roll up and it takes so long to get there. Torchlight 2, though? No respecs is specifically why I am making both a cannon and 2H engineer at this very moment.
 

scy

Member
You want a lot of Dex for 1H+Shield as well. Boosts your dodge chance.

53 DEX (10% Dodge) or 113 DEX (20% Dodge) generally; any more is cutting severely into your damage output and you're realistically better off just getting Dodge% from itemization from here on out.

Now, that said, there is a Block Chance cap (50%) and that isn't even that hard to hit (100 VIT is 18%, 150 VIT is 25.5%, 200 VIT is 32% and you can find ~15% Block Chance even on low level items) so you could just keep raising DEX for survivability rather than VIT. Or just pump more STR for more damage at this point.

You put too much emphasis on dex. It appears to be coming out that dex is one of the least useful stats for DPS (sort of as scy was saying). This guy claims to have done the math and found it lacking:

What it basically comes down to is that Crit Chance (or Crit Damage) are terrible ways to raise your total Damage% by themselves. They serve as a function of your base damage and you have a reliable way that doesn't suffer diminishing returns for raising it. Now, STR raises your Damage% as well so it comes out ahead for builds that utilize it; the same applies for Focus related builds. DEX for the sake of damage is a terrible idea, hence the suggestions for the 53 DEX or 113 DEX stopping points for Dodge chance. What it comes down to is that you stat for Damage% and itemize for Crit Chance/Crit Damage.

Also of note, the way Armor/Resists function makes this even more apparent. They linearly reduce damage so Damage works out as needing a minimum amount to overcome defenses entirely.

Focus outlander using what? Glaive Throw or Venemous Hail, or something else? And obviously investing heavily in the elemental passive, what else?

Glaive Throw (5/15) and Cursed Daggers are the staple for the build. Glaive Throw at 5/15 deals 4600 average damage per use at 100 (~5900 at 15/15 for triple the mana cost, hence why its stopped at 5/15) and Cursed Daggers deals around 8700 damage, though as a DoT. Cursed Daggers also gives you Movement Speed, Crit Chance, and Damage% for every target you hit so it's a really good self buff as well.

So the barebones part of the build:
Warfare:
15/15 Cursed Daggers

Lore:
5/15 Glaive Throw
15/15 Dodge Mastery
15/15 Share the Wealth

Sigil:
1*/15 Blade Pact
5*/15 Repulsion Hex
5*/15 Stone Pact
15/15 Master of the Elements

*More if you want, you'll probably max them anyway.

This is 76 total spent so you have 57 free points. 15 for Venomous Hail, 10 for Repulsion Hex and Stone Pact and even 14 more for Blade Pact still leaves you with 6 points to spend. Bramble Wall is the only skill I'd mention as skippable since Glaive Throw interacts with it oddly. Well, Poison Burst and Shadowling Ammo are also bad choices since you won't be proccing them due to how you're actually killing things.

5/15 Flaming Glaives might be worth consideration for the debuff.

I've found your stats aren't really as important as your gear and skill setup, although the Outlander is really tough on Veteran/Elite playing alone. I wouldn't restart just because you put too much in dex though, besides dex is still a good stat for Outlanders. If you hold off a bit though you'll run into an enchanter who can imbue items with attributes bonus, I remember running into one around your level and I just found another one in Act 3. I've got a massive amount of skill points just by getting one level of enchantment done on most my items by him. I'm an Engineer with a base focus of 10 and after enchanting it's like 70 odd I think.

If there was a stat cap, I'd probably agree with you. Or, well, if I wasn't a min/maxer I'd probably agree with you. But there's no stat cap so misplaced points really does hurt builds, especially for Elite playing.

...but, yeah, you can just not care and just itemize around it in the end.

Totally fucked up my Outlander. Focused way too much on Dex at the beginning, and now I'm seriously hurting because of it. I really wish they'd allow respecs for at least the first month because now I've got a useless level 35 character that I'm going to end up deleting. Really sucks.

How many points in DEX? Outlanders still want DEX to hit the Dodge Cap (75%) and they get around 50% from their skills so you still need over 100 DEX to cap out.
 

scy

Member
If Torchlight 2 had respecs I would seriously play each character once and never again, because there'd be no need.

While probably true, it's rather frustrating to be starting over characters because of bad setups. I suppose I could just care less about that and run with mistakes but, at the same time, you could also just treat characters individually and reroll for new specs rather than respeccing.

Basically, it'd be nice if there was a way to respec stats and skills in the game. Maybe a reward in one of the maps. Maybe a hidden quest of some sort that you can do once per difficulty. Just something so errors in builds can be tweaked rather than shifting builds on a whim.

My Berserker right now is specced all kinds of wrong so I'm rerolling her to properly make her a DW Wand Tundra Berserker (e.g., 15 STR, 113 DEX, 100 VIT, all of the Focus). I'll probably just play on Casual LAN and faceroll my way back to where she is before going back to Elite. I'd really rather not do this, though :(
 
I definitely agree that 1-3 full respecs per character would be a wise decision!

A sidequest in Act 3, and then perhaps one more unlocked when you beat the game. As long as it's a limited number so it doesn't make duplicate character creation meaningless.
 

vareon

Member
Yep, its at the end of the moving light part. Instead of moving onto the teleporter, wait until a lever appears.
There are a TON of secret areas in this game, we simply dont know how to access most of them yet.

Got it! Now that I played it again, that dungeon had a shitton of loots. Might be a good idea replaying them one more time.
 

Fugu

Member
You put too much emphasis on dex. It appears to be coming out that dex is one of the least useful stats for DPS (sort of as scy was saying). This guy claims to have done the math and found it lacking:
The thing is that the benefit of a single point in dexterity scales based on the ratio of your critical damage. Because it's not especially difficult to get crits to do several times the initial 50% it is subsequently not difficult to get more use out of a single point into dexterity. I certainly acknowledge the value of strength, and I itemize for it instead of dexterity because my base dexterity is high enough. But once you start getting disproportionately high critical damage, I think that with the dodge chance factored in, dexterity makes a better investment until your gear starts to encompass a large percent of your critical chance.

However, it comes down a bit to priorities as I'm presuming people are playing hardcore and therefore not building straight for damage.
 
D2 added respec in. I'd really like to hear the justification for the lack of it in TL2.

D2 added respec in after 10 years of longevity, specifically because you couldn't respec. People made new characters instead. Since the game had its run they figured it'd be alright to kill any further longevity.

With respeccing in, you build one of each class and never again.

I suppose ladder would help, you'd need to rebuild one of each class on every ladder reset, but that was so rare anyway.
 

RS4-

Member
Yeah thanks for the djinni thing, ran it three times, got one unique eye gem, the rest were lousy greens.

The battle standard + wolf pack is just too good for zerk. Infinite spam until standard disappears and I don't think you can die. All the life gained back from crit hits due to blood hunger and high crit % is amazing. Not to mention having wolf shade life steal is great as well.

At least I'm fairly certain I've been getting life steal from wolf pack.

edit - ok yeah, life steal from wolf pack works

Anyone found any good gear for their pet, beyond just health bonuses?

There's one leash that does 100% shield break!
 

scy

Member
But once you start getting disproportionately high critical damage, I think that with the dodge chance factored in, dexterity makes a better investment until your gear starts to encompass a large percent of your critical chance.

As Critical Damage increases, the value of Critical Chance goes up. Yes. That's true. However, as Critical Damage increases, the value of Damage itself goes up. What we're left with is that raw Damage% goes up faster than Critical Chance does so using your stat itemization for it is a hard justification.

Now, yes, there's a point where Critical Damage can get high enough that +1% Crit returns enough to outweigh the effective cost. However, that's also why I suggest 53/113 DEX for the 10%/20% Crit Chance and Dodge Chance. 183/184 is when you hit 30%, 276 DEX is when you'd get 40%, and then 500 points is when you'd reach 50%. Or: 53 points for 10% Crit (almost .2 per point), 60 more points for the next 10% (.016 per point), 70.5 for the next 10% (.142 per point), 92.5 for the next 10% (.108 per point), and then 224 for the final 10% (.045 per point).

Meanwhile, Damage will always be 20 points for every 10% Damage increase (.5 per point). Crit Damage will always be 25 points for every 10% (.4 per point). As far as effective use, raising Damage% is just a better use of your points.

Incidentally, this also applies to Execute chance and STR DW builds.

Edit: Basically, Crit Chance is good for your damage. Raising DEX for your Crit Chance is not, however.
 

scy

Member
At least I'm fairly certain I've been getting life steal from wolf pack.

edit - ok yeah, life steal from wolf pack works

Wait, Wolf Pack procs Life on Hit/Life Steal% from equipment? Seems like an odd thing for it to not mention on the tooltip.

Incidentally, does Wolf Pack scale with Focus? There's a few Physical spells that do so ...
 

RS4-

Member
Wait, Wolf Pack procs Life on Hit/Life Steal% from equipment? Seems like an odd thing for it to not mention on the tooltip.

Incidentally, does Wolf Pack scale with Focus? There's a few Physical spells that do so ...

I'll have to check but I don't think I have any life on hit type stuff equipped. And if I do, its something lousy like 10 hp per hit and I shouldn't be getting back something like 3k HP back per burst.

I'm not sure if it scales either.

Wolfshade is crazy though, I'm at 13 with it does 60% health steal, so I'm getting at least 2k back per hit.

I'll take a vid in a sec.

edit - if you're really low on potions, you can do a maproom quest and just get to the last floor. There should be bodies lying around for you to loot before the teleport to the boss. Loot bodies, exit then resume. Rinse repeat, especially if they drop ultimate potions, etc.
 

scy

Member
I'll have to check but I don't think I have any life on hit type stuff equipped. And if I do, its something lousy like 10 hp per hit and I shouldn't be getting back something like 3k HP back per burst.

I'm not sure if it scales either.

Wolfshade is crazy though, I'm at 13 with it does 60% health steal, so I'm getting at least 2k back per hit.

I'll take a vid in a sec.

I need to test some Berserker things so I may rush my soon-to-be-scrapped Berserker to 42 so I can try things out
or offload it to other people for me ohohohohoho
. DW Wand means that like half the skills don't apply (Blood Hunger, Rampage, Cold Steel Mastery is bad anyway, Shred Armor, and then plenty of Actives obviously) so my build shifted more towards Tundra/Shadow just to find a way to spend my damn points. Wolf Pack and Wolf Shade were things picked up out of this so was curious if I had more to gain from it than I realized.
 

Morokh

Member
Read Morokh's post. It seems like they are intending to flag people for modding things that might be considered "cheats".

As I understood it, they are not talking about modding since when actual mods will come out logic would be that you will only be able to play with people that use the same mods.

They are referring to actual cheating in vanilla games.

As for your previous question about the quote I posted, they mean that if someone in your group/guild bans a player, this player will be banned for all the players in your group/guild.
 

Taffer

Member
I'm halfway through Act 2 and I've seen people talking about a secret robot quest possibly featuring Trillbot, can anyone tell me roughly when this appears? I could read relevant threads but I want to see as much of the game for myself as I can before potentially reading that you rescue him from Son of Ordrak or something similarly spoileresque.

Also dumbarse question no doubt, but I don't play games online much (if at all), just wonder what closed online is? I've see people lamenting its implementation quite frequently in this thread.

Closed online means character data is saved to Runic's own secure server instead of on your PC, which means people can't mod/hack their game save. So no hacked characters or items floating around with closed online.
 

scy

Member
I'm halfway through Act 2 and I've seen people talking about a secret robot quest possibly featuring Trillbot, can anyone tell me roughly when this appears? I could read relevant threads but I want to see as much of the game for myself as I can before potentially reading that you rescue him from Son of Ordrak or something similarly spoileresque.

The quest starts in Act 1 to
collect some robot parts. You're given the quest when you find the first one
.
 

Taffer

Member
The quest starts in Act 1 to
collect some robot parts. You're given the quest when you find the first one
.

Oh well, it's an incentive to actually start an alt and get some use from the class-specific drops my engineer can't use. I only started my second character in Torchlight about two weeks before TL2 went up for pre-purchase, I need to use that shared stash for sharing. I think I'll roll a crit-crazy Berserker in honour of my Destroyer.
 

TGMIII

Member
Coup de grace works with ranged right and if so would it proc from blast cannon?

Currently at lvl 21 with a cannon engineer on Hardcore elite trying to figure out what to do with the 5 skill points I have saved. Already leveling healing bot, blast cannon and bulwark, thinking about going into Coup de grace and forcefield. Also mainly spending stat points on Str/Vit which seems to be working out so far.
 

scy

Member
Oh well, it's an incentive to actually start an alt and get some use from the class-specific drops my engineer can't use. I only started my second character in Torchlight about two weeks before TL2 went up for pre-purchase, I need to use that shared stash for sharing. I think I'll roll a crit-crazy Berserker in honour of my Destroyer.

Just to clarify, it starts in Act 1 but it goes through the entire game. You can always go back to Act 1 just to go find the quest start in the
Spider Cave
.

Coup de grace works with ranged right and if so would it proc from blast cannon?

Blast Cannon uses WeaponDPS so, yeah, it will trigger Coup de Grace. Do keep in mind that stuns don't trigger on bosses and that Coup de Grace has an internal cooldown of one second between activations globally, not per target.
 

Vert boil

Member
Completed my first run through last night. Some of the groups of mobs hit bloody hard later on.
As I progressed through the world I kept getting flashbacks to locations in Dungeon Siege (this is a good thing). If there isn't a Mule pet available a week after the tools come out I'll have to knock one up.

It was worth the wait. Excellent game.
 

Fugu

Member
As Critical Damage increases, the value of Critical Chance goes up. Yes. That's true. However, as Critical Damage increases, the value of Damage itself goes up. What we're left with is that raw Damage% goes up faster than Critical Chance does so using your stat itemization for it is a hard justification.

Now, yes, there's a point where Critical Damage can get high enough that +1% Crit returns enough to outweigh the effective cost. However, that's also why I suggest 53/113 DEX for the 10%/20% Crit Chance and Dodge Chance. 183/184 is when you hit 30%, 276 DEX is when you'd get 40%, and then 500 points is when you'd reach 50%. Or: 53 points for 10% Crit (almost .2 per point), 60 more points for the next 10% (.016 per point), 70.5 for the next 10% (.142 per point), 92.5 for the next 10% (.108 per point), and then 224 for the final 10% (.045 per point).

Meanwhile, Damage will always be 20 points for every 10% Damage increase (.5 per point). Crit Damage will always be 25 points for every 10% (.4 per point). As far as effective use, raising Damage% is just a better use of your points.

Incidentally, this also applies to Execute chance and STR DW builds.

Edit: Basically, Crit Chance is good for your damage. Raising DEX for your Crit Chance is not, however.
I was referring to items that specifically boost critical damage; that situation specifically raises the cost benefit of dex at an accelerated rate. I suggested 200 base dex, so we're not talking about a massive difference. But the specific amount depends on how much you can get on your gear, which is a largely unknown variable right now. You ultimately end up with more focus or strength than dex anyway.

My aims have been to build to 500% critical damage and then the highest DPS possible. That takes quite a bit of dex.
 

KingKong

Member
So are the beginning pets the only ones I can get? I read something about catching fish to transform the pets, but is that temporary and are there pet skins to find/unlock?
 

FGMPR

Banned
5E20B5954EF627F5B3F28B0EE0BAE7CFA62543A2


I'm having a little trouble understanding which bow I should equip (well, when I'm able to at least). The overall DPS is way higher on the L57 bow, but the one I'm using now has an extra socket (though I can find the enchanter that adds sockets again) and more importantly a 40% bonus to crit damage as well as +25% to poison damage, which I am built very well to take advantage of.

Should I just take the new bow as being the better to use because of the massive DPS improvement?

Any help would be appreciated...
 

scy

Member
I was referring to items that specifically boost critical damage; that situation specifically raises the cost benefit of dex at an accelerated rate. I suggested 200 base dex, so we're not talking about a massive difference. But the specific amount depends on how much you can get on your gear, which is a largely unknown variable right now. You ultimately end up with more focus or strength than dex anyway.

I'd say to stop at 184 rather than 200 just since the cost per point effectiveness drops off again after that. A balance of the stats (Damage%, Crit Chance%, Crit Damage% that is) will yield the best results, however, my point is that the amount that DEX returns isn't worth it eventually. That said, the formula isn't very complicated:

WeaponDamage * (1 + (Crit Chance * Crit Damage%)) * (1 + Damage%)

300% Critical Damage is around where 113 is the best return; 400% Crit Damage for going to 184, 500% for going to 276, and then a rather absurd amount to make 500 DEX worth it.

I'm having a little trouble understanding which bow I should equip (well, when I'm able to at least). The overall DPS is way higher on the L57 bow, but the one I'm using now has an extra socket (though I can find the enchanter that adds sockets again) and more importantly a 40% bonus to crit damage as well as +25% to poison damage, which I am built very well to take advantage of.

Should I just take the new bow as being the better to use because of the massive DPS improvement?

Any help would be appreciated...

Well, what is your build? How heavy on WeaponDPS skills? Master of the Elements works better on the first Bow than the second as well. +40% Crit Damage at 20% (or more, depending on Charge and all that) is also a fairly good amount. Just eyeballing the two, I'd say the first Bow is better but, again, build could change things. That and actually mathing things out.
 

Fugu

Member
5E20B5954EF627F5B3F28B0EE0BAE7CFA62543A2


I'm having a little trouble understanding which bow I should equip (well, when I'm able to at least). The overall DPS is way higher on the L57 bow, but the one I'm using now has an extra socket (though I can find the enchanter that adds sockets again) and more importantly a 40% bonus to crit damage as well as +25% to poison damage, which I am built very well to take advantage of.

Should I just take the new bow as being the better to use because of the massive DPS improvement?

Any help would be appreciated...
I think the second bow has it beat unless your poison damage is really high, because your chance to crit is low.

Also, you can see one of the benefits of dex in action in this screenshot: he can't use the second bow.
 

scy

Member
Also, you can see one of the benefits of dex in action in this screenshot: he can't use the second bow.

And by my suggestions, he'd probably be fairly close to using it with 113 DEX and some bonuses. But, yes, stat requirements are the biggest thing that screws with the whole don't max DEX philosophy for Outlanders. The question would be do you raise DEX early on so you can equip things earlier for 1-100 or just build for level 100 and optimize your base stats otherwise.

Edit: Incidentally, I assume that screenshot is without Charge maxed since 102 DEX is around 20% base Crit (18%). Should be around 30% with Charge going, more depending on Share the Wealth. Crit Damage should be around 230% with the first Bow, 190% with the second.
 

FGMPR

Banned
I've levelled up the following skills pretty evenly:

Long range mastery
Rapid shot
Glaive throw
Poison burst
Master of elements
Rune vault
Share the wealth

Also, I have a shitload of poison DMG bonus's on my other equipment.

Thanks for the help.

Edit: yeah, that screenshot is taken with charge at 0 percent.
 

scy

Member
Worth mention that as far as I'm aware, Crit Damage% is also a lot easier to come by than Crit Chance% as far as itemization is concerned. Which is another extra benefit for a higher base DEX. Do note that if you go to 184 DEX, you'll probably want to drop some points from Dodge Mastery (~6 points) as you won't need it maxed out to get to 75% Dodge. Well, unless you want max Dodge when your Charge is empty.

I've levelled up the following skills pretty evenly:

Long range mastery
Rapid shot
Glaive throw
Poison burst
Master of elements
Rune vault
Share the wealth

Also, I have a shitload of poison DMG bonus's on my other equipment.

Thanks for the help.

Well, Glaive Throw is weapon damage independent, purely scaling with Level, Focus, and then +Poison Damage (and, well, Crit Damage%/Crit Chance%). If GT is making up the majority of your damage, the first is the better Bow.

If you use Rapid Fire mainly, it'll come down to how much that Poison Damage you have on the rest of your equipment comes to I suppose. Just trying to estimate where the second bow ends up, it's ahead but not by all that much. I'll see if I can math out something better than that.
 

FGMPR

Banned
Worth mention that as far as I'm aware, Crit Damage% is also a lot easier to come by than Crit Chance% as far as itemization is concerned. Which is another extra benefit for a higher base DEX. Do note that if you go to 184 DEX, you'll probably want to drop some points from Dodge Mastery (~6 points) as you won't need it maxed out to get to 75% Dodge. Well, unless you want max Dodge when your Charge is empty.



Well, Glaive Throw is weapon damage independent, purely scaling with Level, Focus, and then +Poison Damage (and, well, Crit Damage%/Crit Chance%). If GT is making up the majority of your damage, the first is the better Bow.

If you use Rapid Fire mainly, it'll come down to how much that Poison Damage you have on the rest of your equipment comes to I suppose. Just trying to estimate where the second bow ends up, it's ahead but not by all that much. I'll see if I can math out something better than that.

GT is definitely my prime damage dealer, with rapid fire being used to mop up the rest of the mobs HP as its mana costs are much lower. I guess that means I should prob stick with the first bow. I'll give it a go at working it out myself but frankly I'm pretty average when it comes to crunching numbers. Thanks again...
 
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