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Torchlight II |OT| Good things come to those who wait

scy

Member
So you're forced to level up your weapon along with you if you still want to be powerful? I wonder if this has anything to do with armor and the failing dodge ratios we were looking at earlier...

We would know if Ruinic told us ANYTHING ABOUT THE FUCKING GAME

You actually are told about how Armor works (er, at least the basics of it) in loading screens and I think by the Armor tooltip itself. It's a fairly simple function though:

(IncomingDamage - rand(Armor/2 .. Armor)) * (1 - DamageResistance%)

Also of note, you can reach 100% Damage Resistance but it's not actually immunity since some attacks pierce resistances. But, for the most part, you'll take no damage so ... get to farming -All Damage%!

One thing to note about -All Armor per hit is I believe it ends up stacking over and over until the enemy has no armor left. So a fast weapon can be very good once you remove the enemy's armor. Fast weapons benefit the most from +damage gems as well.

Just to note, it's not permanent. It does wear off over time. But, yeah, it stacks with itself so it's a great way to increase your Damage.
 

sixghost

Member
Attacks mitigated to zero are shown as fumbles, yeah.
I didn't realize that enchantments, gems, etc. wont proc if an attack is fumbled. My build was built around this 10 mana steal ember and a really fast attack speed, but it all crashed and burned once enemies armor exceeded my entire damage, since my normal attack would no longer steal mana.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Also of note, you can reach 100% Damage Resistance but it's not actually immunity since some attacks pierce resistances. But, for the most part, you'll take no damage so ... get to farming -All Damage%!
WTF. I think the most I have seen for damage reduction is like 2%. Is there even equipment to total 100%? It's not randomized like D3 so we should be able to know exactly what pieces we need to do that.
 

sixghost

Member
WTF. I think the most I have seen for damage reduction is like 2%. Is there even equipment to total 100%? It's not randomized like D3 so we should be able to know exactly what pieces we need to do that.

I'm level 41 and have a couple pieces of armor with 10% reduction to all damage.
 
F me

Luminous Arena is damn brutal

Finished act 2. Some screens of my Embermage:
2012-10-03_00005.jpg

2012-10-03_00008.jpg

2012-10-03_00009.jpg

2012-10-03_00007.jpg

2012-10-03_00004.jpg
 
They're putting a cap on damage reduction next patch, along with a cap on % XP gain and % fame gain. As usual, the patch is "coming soon." I thought sometime this week, they are in the process of testing it.
 
Went back and played diablo 3 last night....damn
TL2 pace is much faster and much more dynamic. Maybe it's just me. Turned off diablo 3 in 5 minutes haha...
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Defense is subtractive, so slower weapons with higher damages will win out over faster weapon with lower damage if they have the same DPS. If the faster weapon has higher DPS, then it matters depending on enemy defense.

As an extreme example, if you are hitting an enemy with 50 defense, a 50 per hit 0.5 attack speed will do 0 damage, while a 100 per hit 1 attack speed with do 50 per hit, so the latter wins out even though they have the same DPS. The first weapon would have to be at least 75 per hit to win out. (I'm purposely ignoring variance and stats here, it makes the numbers more complex, but it doesn't affect my general point.)

On the other hand, faster weapons generate on-hit effects more often, so there is a benefit there.

Thanks for the confirmation. I felt it, but didn't know the math behind the scenes.

I really love what they done here.
 

KingKong

Member
So what level were people when they first beat the game?

I'm 38 (and I was already under-leveled first time), but now all the enemies and zones and drops/rewards are like 15 levels above me which is just not fun. I don't know how I'm so far behind, I did every side quest I could find and as far as I can tell there's no real way to grind in the game.

I think I might just cheat myself to level 52 or whatever the first zone is and then respec my skills/points
 

spiritfox

Member
How on earth did you manage to be so underleveled? You can still grind if you re-roll your world. Either create a new Internet or LAN game and select re-roll world or join another person's game. Everything will respawn, even the bosses.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm 38 (and I was already under-leveled first time), but now all the enemies and zones and drops/rewards are like 15 levels above me which is just not fun. I don't know how I'm so far behind, I did every side quest I could find and as far as I can tell there's no real way to grind in the game.
38? Wow, I think I was 52.

Do you just run to bulletpoints or do you fully explore each map? You shouldn't exit an area until the current area you are on is fully mapped. Press M to gain a larger view of the map to see what you missed. Doing this, you will fight more enemies, come across some dungeons that don't have missions tied to them, talk to some people who lead you to side quests, and portal beasts which lead to challenges that usually have so many enemies that you gain a level.

You should also be able to use the mapworks to level up. There are TONS of missions for it.
 

KingKong

Member
I don't know, I didn't map the entire world but I did the big part of it and did all the side quests I could find. I didn't do any mapworks stuff.

I think the problem is that I was underleveled when I first got to zone 2 (maybe I missed some quests there?) and then never caught up
 

scy

Member
WTF. I think the most I have seen for damage reduction is like 2%. Is there even equipment to total 100%? It's not randomized like D3 so we should be able to know exactly what pieces we need to do that.

There's socketables like The Eye of Grell (-3%).

They're putting a cap on damage reduction next patch, along with a cap on % XP gain and % fame gain. As usual, the patch is "coming soon." I thought sometime this week, they are in the process of testing it.

DR% Cap needs to be relatively high then. Even up to ~80-90% leads to a pretty harsh experience in Elite NG++++ (+? ffs, give them names) from some testing there. Then again, I suppose that's the point. I guess I need to rush a character of my own that far and do some personal testing.

Honestly, I'd rather they fix bad tooltips (and/or just clarify things) and the Combat Log. Granted, I suppose the latter isn't "meant" to be seen, given it's unlocked via the Console, but still.

...hrm, I wonder if that Combat Log usage flagged my Berserker. That would be kind of stupid :/

So what level were people when they first beat the game?

I'm 38 (and I was already under-leveled first time), but now all the enemies and zones and drops/rewards are like 15 levels above me which is just not fun. I don't know how I'm so far behind, I did every side quest I could find and as far as I can tell there's no real way to grind in the game.

I think I might just cheat myself to level 52 or whatever the first zone is and then respec my skills/points

Er, 38? 38 is an Act 2 level, really. ~52ish is around where you should be for the start of NG+.

Worth note, I believe you can actually skip NG+s. The NG+ it sends you to is merely based on your level when you talk to the NPC so grinding to 100 and then going to NG+ should skip you to NG+++.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Just bought this the other day. Currently lvl 17... and running a focus based Outlander. Hope that works out for me.
 

Nabs

Member
Anyone know why someone would crash every few minutes? His game will either freeze for a bit or crash to desktop. He's even infecting our games when we play together online. It's really annoying.

edit: nvm. I think he fixed it.
 
Is the "gain 5% health on a crit" skill from the berserker fine at higher levels?

I'm thinking about making a DEX based berserker for the crit damage and heals.
 

scy

Member
Is the "gain 5% health on a crit" skill from the berserker fine at higher levels?

I'm thinking about making a DEX based berserker for the crit damage and heals.

Ultimately, Shadow Burst is more reliable. Wolf Shade is also better than Blood Hunger (arguably, better healing than Shadow Burst too). Depends a lot on the difficulty you're on as well.

Honestly? Blood Hunger at one point is pretty much fine. It's a 1s Health Regen buff and not a direct heal. Mostly there to help sustain when you get crits, not something to be your primary healing. I say this for Elite play, though.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Get all of them. Blood Hunger to help sustain, Shred Armor to minimize hurt to begin with, Wolf Shade which can be perpetually running when maxed, and Shadow Burst for when you get pretty hurt anyway. Since Blood Hunger is healing over time, it would stack with Wolf Shade and Shadow Burst while the armor boost from Shred Armor is still active. A stacked berserker is very close to a stacked engie in defenses.
 
Its the only skill that keeps me alive so yeah def worth it!

Ultimately, Shadow Burst is more reliable. Wolf Shade is also better than Blood Hunger (arguably, better healing than Shadow Burst too). Depends a lot on the difficulty you're on as well.

Honestly? Blood Hunger at one point is pretty much fine. It's a 1s Health Regen buff and not a direct heal. Mostly there to help sustain when you get crits, not something to be your primary healing. I say this for Elite play, though.

Get all of them. Blood Hunger to help sustain, Shred Armor to minimize hurt to begin with, Wolf Shade which can be perpetually running when maxed, and Shadow Burst for when you get pretty hurt anyway. Since Blood Hunger is healing over time, it would stack with Wolf Shade and Shadow Burst while the armor boost from Shred Armor is still active. A stacked berserker is very close to a stacked engie in defenses.

Thanks! How high would you guys say pumping it? It SEEMS like a one-point wonder, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Man im so broke :( just got past the first boss of act 4 and now im nearly broke and rockign level 35 gear at 52! Not had much luck with drops since act 2.
 

Fugu

Member
Fighting monsters twenty levels above me isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I'd long since resigned to the fact that everything is going to kill me in a couple of hits so it's mostly just slower.
 
I am happy now!

Guess why I am happy!

My second legendary just dropped!!!

Not only that, it's perfect for the character I was using!

Grand Illusion, the two-handed greathammer.

Screenshot where I got it in Mapworks, equipped on my character. The Czar is pleased!

vD9bx.png


Up to now I have been using the Threaded Bolt Driver which is pretty awesome itself, but man!

My first legendary was on the doorstep of the Alchemist fight with my first character, an outlander. It was the famous Two Thousand Maniacs! (exclamation point not optional.)

Steam says I've played the game for 95 hours now. Seems about right I guess!

Now, how much to get it enchanted, and what type...

EDIT: What the heck should I socket in this thing? I like to have mana leech, so when I run out I just whack the guy once and get enough back to spam an ability again...but maybe I should start chugging potions and increase my DPS further instead?

Should I use one of the "conveys 800 damage over X seconds" things?

And as far as enchanting...I think because I've got some points in Fire and Spark, it may be best to find an electric enchanter and do it all there? Since the hammer already has fire damage on it, electricity is a good idea to have in case of resistances, and it has the same boosts. Or actually I could go fire and look for +% fire damage equipment, that would make more sense for my Flame Hammer and Emberquake...hmm.
 

Miletius

Member
Is Dynamo field worth it if you only plan to put 5 points into it? I'm trying to come up with a tweak from my old 2h build, relying mostly on Onslaught for mobility and damage and then regular attacks to gain charge for FF. After getting everything I want it seems like I'll have only room for 5 in Dynamo field.

If I didn't put points in Dynamo field I'd probably move them over to Charge Domination, for reference, and rely on that proc a bit more.

Link to Build: Engineer 49/33/50
 
Hey, so when playing this game for more than one hour, my right pinky will start to cramp up. Anyone have this problem? I wish this game had gamepad support.

I mean, it worked excellent on the first game for 360.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Hey, so when playing this game for more than one hour, my right pinky will start to cramp up. Anyone have this problem? I wish this game had gamepad support.

I mean, it worked excellent on the first game for 360.

You either need to hold your mouse differently or get a new mouse with a more comfortable shape.
 

Wildesy

Member
Man the Embermage is squishy, you have to be far more careful and deliberate with your movements. It might explain why Prismatic Bolts is so OP. My sword and board Engineer with Forcefield was close to impossible to stop where as half my time with the Embermage is spent running away. The Embermage doesn't really have any good defensive spells or passives either which is strange. I'll take Ice Prison when I get to it, but otherwise you are just relying on killing things before they get to you or kiting the danger.

Only class I haven't played yet is the Beserker, but Engineer has been head and shoulders above the others in terms of enjoyment for me for whatever reason. I'm not great at micromanaging a bunch of different skills which is where I fall down with the Embermage I think. I've mucked around with my key bindings a bit but I always forget to use certain skills or when I get low on health get all panicky and press pretty much every key on my mouse/kb.

I'm to scared to take my EM online at this point too. There seems to be a bug online with EMs being reverted to level 1 and appearing to other people as 'Embermage' instead of their names. When I was playing with my Engi my mate playing as an EM was getting one shotted in really bizarre situations.
 
Just finished. Level 51, veteran difficulty, berserker.

Lots of fun, though maybe too easy. Is the mapworks stuff good? Not sure if I'm burnt out on TL2 now or if I want to try playing around with a different class.

Great game all around though. A steal at $20.
 
Man the Embermage is squishy, you have to be far more careful and deliberate with your movements. It might explain why Prismatic Bolts is so OP. My sword and board Engineer with Forcefield was close to impossible to stop where as half my time with the Embermage is spent running away. The Embermage doesn't really have any good defensive spells or passives either which is strange. I'll take Ice Prison when I get to it, but otherwise you are just relying on killing things before they get to you or kiting the danger.
Frost Phase is kind of amazing.
 

Fugu

Member
Is there any background behind the golden crab (ostentatious crustacean still kills me) and the blood monkey?
 
The Embermage doesn't really have any good defensive spells or passives either which is strange.

Embermage has better crowd control options than any other class, Hailstorm can paralyze huge crowds while Frost Wave is the really OP spell of the Embermage. Then Thunder Locus allows for easy knitting. Immolation Aura and Elemental Boon are great defensive spells, Prismatic Rift gives you a 85% chance to teleport people away when they hit you at max level and Staff Mastery is one of the most overpowered passives in this game. So something is wrong if you don't think the Embermage has good defensive spells or passives, you just need to learn to use them.
 

Santar

Member
Has there been any news on how Torchlight 2 has done salewise?
Would be interesting to know if it surpased Runic's expectations or not.
 

Wildesy

Member
Frost Phase is kind of amazing.

Yeah I forgot about Frost Phase, I used Shadow Burst the same way with the Engi. I was more just referring to damage negating passives and skills. There is Immolation Aura but there is no way it is worth investing the points into to get the 15% DR. And Prismatic Rift is a complete waste of points if your problem is getting one shotted on Elite.
 
Yeah I forgot about Frost Phase, I used Shadow Burst the same way with the Engi. I was more just referring to damage negating passives and skills. There is Immolation Aura but there is no way it is worth investing the points into to get the 15% DR. And Prismatic Rift is a complete waste of points if your problem is getting one shotted on Elite.

How many points have you spent on Vit? Not much reasons why you will be one shotted on Elite if you have been pumping your Vit and getting good armor.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Just tried it on a whim, and you can do the same 'drag item over to buy back tab' glitch on the regular store owners too.
 

Fitz

Member
Anyone have much experience playing engineer on hardcore elite? I'm nearing the end of my first play through as a cannon engy and want to have a go at hardcore with a tank spec but I'm not familiar with the melee skills at all. I've been browsing the official forums for a few days but there seem to be a lot of conflicting opinions and tbh, I don't value the input of people on official forums very highly for any game.

For a mainly focus/vit build I'm thinking something along these lines should work: 46/45/40, but there's several things I'm unsure about.

Firstly if it's worth taking both Supercharge and Dynamo Field, obviously having both would mean more benefit from Charge Reconstitution, but I'm used to getting most of my charge from Charge Domination so I'm unsure on their effectiveness.

I'm also unsure about the value of Bulwark and Aegis of Fate, I imagine Bulwark is the better of the two, especially as it would increase the effectiveness of AoF.

Thirdly what damage skills are worth taking. Currently looking at some mixture of Seismic Slam, Emberquake, Shield Bash or Fire Bash. Also I think a single point into Tremor should be valuable for the debuff, especially on longer fights.

Lastly stat distribution I was thinking 3/Focus 2/Vit, maybe moving the 3rd in Focus around depending on gear requirements and such.

Any input is appreciated.
 

v0mitg0d

Member
Hi Gaf!

I'm back with a new interview with Max Schaefer. As some of you'll recall I interviewed Max back at E3 and we talked about bunch lot of cool things, including his time at Blizzard working on Diablo 3 many moons ago.

Well I sat down with Max again a few days after Torchlight 2 launched and we discussed: Torchlight 2 sales, how powerful the mod tools really are, will TL2 on the Mac make 2012, player cheating, working on Diablo 3, open-multiplayer vs secure-multiplayer, Claptrap and Minecraft cameos in TL2, PvP, Torchlight 3, Torchlight 2 on next gen consoles, Sci-Fi ARPGs and if he'll ever make that Torchlight/Minecraft hybrid he told me about at E3 this year.



http://eat-games.tumblr.com/post/32824468588/max-schaefer-torchlight2-launch-interview


With Diablo 3 we wanted to do an MMO, a shared world. As I recall—and this was a million years ago—we didn’t have a whole lot of instancing in the plans. It was going to be a true, big MMO world but with Diablo sensibilities and controls.

We wouldn’t be able to do a $20 game of this size while running servers and trying to maintain a secure economy. It just doesn’t happen, and so that’s why you have $60 boxes for things like that.

I think people are panicking because they’re thinking about Diablo 3 and what it might be like if you could cheat—and yeah it would be chaos—but that’s only in the context of having a competitive economy.

we wanted to make sure it was the proper Claptrap [design] and they were very very cool about it, as was Notch regarding the Minecraft stuff. It’s just fun to see that stuff happen.

That’s kind of part of the deal with Torchlight. It was really really fun making Torchlight 2 so I suspect we’ll never get too far from that but we definitely want to put a twist on it for the next thing.

Lots more at the link too...hope you guys enjoy, I'm proud of this one! :)

Cheers,
-Mark


(Does this deserve it's own thread? Not sure, you guys decide. I don't think I can create new threads anyways).
 

scy

Member
Is Dynamo field worth it if you only plan to put 5 points into it? I'm trying to come up with a tweak from my old 2h build, relying mostly on Onslaught for mobility and damage and then regular attacks to gain charge for FF. After getting everything I want it seems like I'll have only room for 5 in Dynamo field.

If I didn't put points in Dynamo field I'd probably move them over to Charge Domination, for reference, and rely on that proc a bit more.

Link to Build: Engineer 49/33/50

Onslaught is a pretty awful way to get your damage, honestly. But, as far as Charge Domination is concerned, it reaches maximum efficiency per point at 7 points in it. That gives it an, on average, ~50% chance to have procced per 10 enemies killed. Still, I wouldn't rely on Charm Domination instead of using Dynamo Field or something that consistently generates you Charge.

I've been browsing the official forums for a few days but there seem to be a lot of conflicting opinions and tbh, I don't value the input of people on official forums very highly for any game.

There's been a fair amount of good theorycrafting and testing done via the forums.

For a mainly focus/vit build I'm thinking something along these lines should work: 46/45/40, but there's several things I'm unsure about.

Firstly if it's worth taking both Supercharge and Dynamo Field, obviously having both would mean more benefit from Charge Reconstitution, but I'm used to getting most of my charge from Charge Domination so I'm unsure on their effectiveness.

Supercharge is nice to have and it helps increase your Charge rate but Dynamo Field (or Shield Bash, if you'd rather do that) is the best way to actually build up Charge. Supercharge is more for doing more damage with autoattacks rather than a way to generate charge.

On the subject of Dynamo Field, Shield Bash is a notably alternative that helps your survivability. Something worth keeping in mind for Hardcore.

I'm also unsure about the value of Bulwark and Aegis of Fate, I imagine Bulwark is the better of the two, especially as it would increase the effectiveness of AoF.

Aegis of Fate just isn't that impressive of a skill, sadly. Forcefield at 100 is around a 60,000 shield. With enough DR% (which it scale with), it's just hard to argue against it, even if Aegis of Fate is less Charge reliant.

Thirdly what damage skills are worth taking. Currently looking at some mixture of Seismic Slam, Emberquake, Shield Bash or Fire Bash. Also I think a single point into Tremor should be valuable for the debuff, especially on longer fights.

Emberquake/Seismic Slam/Dynamo Field are basically your offensive options. Fire Bash is nice for the synergy with Emberquake/Seismic Slam but it is fairly reliant on a lot of points. Shield Bash/Fire Bash just are not things to consider for high damage, however, more for their utility. I guess the same applies to Dynamo Field, really.

The Tremor Debuff isn't that big of a deal with the limited amount of Physical damage you're doing. Worth mention is the Immobilization Copter debuff. It'll help with your survivability and 10 points of it (worth taking from Charge Reconstitution*) actually gets an okay damage from it. Plus, more bots.

*While a nice skill to have, you're generally blowing all your Charge on Forcefield rather than consistently blowing them to keep triggering the heal. It's just not as helpful as it could be.

Lastly stat distribution I was thinking 3/Focus 2/Vit, maybe moving the 3rd in Focus around depending on gear requirements and such.

Some DEX is worth taking after you reach a comfortable level of VIT (53 for 10% Block, 113 for 20% Block). Lack of STR hurts itemization so you're stuck equipping Tank gear as you meet the level requirements. Not exactly a "bad" thing, just something to keep in mind.
 

Fitz

Member
Brilliant, thanks for all that info scy. Confident enough to get going now without worrying about spec'ing myself into a hole.
 

Fitz

Member
Agreed. The impression I get is that Str is only really decent for a Cannon Engineer, which I don't suppose will change unless they add a high level elemental dps Cannon or change Fusillade.
 
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