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Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter by InXile [Complete; $4.3 million funded]

F

Frogacuda

Banned
Zeliard said:
Must Frogacuda continue his tiresome crusade against Kickstarter in every KS thread? The arguments are so repetitive because people keep refuting his points and he just ignores it and continues on.
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Delusibeta said:
Oh goody, the user that cries "Kickstarter is PURE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!" is here. Let's enjoy this master-class in circular logic, astroturfing and deflecting arguments.
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Really? I'm anti-Kickstarter? Is that what you're taking away from what I'm saying?

I haven't said anything bad about Kickstarter except that I think this one particular developer happens to be abusing it in this one case. I've never mentioned it in any thread relating to anyone else. I love Kickstarter, when it helps things get made that wouldn't otherwise.
wrowa said:
Come on, they would have been lucky to meet a million if they made the game freeware. Getting people to pay for something they also could get for free, is one of the hardest tasks in the world. I don't see how that would be in the best interest to anyone.
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Then it seems like there's something more than just patronage of the arts going on, no?
 
S

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
wrowa said:
But to be fair, it's an amazing pitch. It's leagues above what Obsidian did initially.
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This is very true. While I dropped more on Obsidian's Kickstarter than I did on both inXile games combined (I really wanted that signed art book), Fargo and team have done a much better job with their pitches. I just wish they would have had a hardcover version of the art book. I think what they have shown so far for Torment has looked great. Same with the concept art out of Wasteland 2.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Thread derailed. Again. General rejection of the concept of Kickstarter needs to be taken to its own discussion and not derail Kickstarter game threads.
 
S

superdeluxe

Member
“@BrianFargo: We passed up the first stretch goal before we could get them up to show. We will have them soon to share.”

So we will be getting retro stretch goals!
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
I'm finding myself more excited for this than even Eternity.

Torment is my #1 game of all-time, and even though Avellone is not involved here, they still have some really great people (Colin McComb, Kevin Saunders, Monte Cook, Mark Morgan) and the Numenera setting seems sumptuous.

This seems a lot more like the game that I (perhaps unfairly) wanted Eternity to be. Unshackled. Complex web of cosmology, bizarre and beautiful art, focus on conversation, personalized story of discovery (of a protagonist who cheats death, no less), etc. It just seems a lot more Torment-y in general, while Eternity is veering more towards the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale side of things.

I'm still very excited for Eternity, and I obviously love Obsidian, but what the boys at inXile are saying and showing when it comes to Torment piques my interest more.
 
D

dude

dude
Frogacuda said:
In some cases, it can be (like with Tropes vs Women, or Last Days of Coney Island where the end product is not commercial beyond its production). But these developers are businesses and many of them stand to make huge profits from these games. If they wanted to give away Wasteland 2 for free at the end, I wouldn't have nearly the issue I do with this.
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Huge profits? We're talking niche genres and 2-4 million dollar productions. This is no where close to the industry titans with projects that are five times as big. What is your concern exactly? That the gamers don't get a cut? Well, that's not the deal offered on Kickstarter - You don't get ownership, you only get the product. This works well because that way it makes it worthwhile to the developers and the gamers are fine with it. So it's a win-win.

EDIT: Nevermind, glad the thread is back on topic.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
Frogacuda said:
Anyway, I don't want to start a whole debate about. Clearly most people don't think about it the way I do, and they just see Kickstarter as a big store to buy games. I'm certainly not here to tell anyone how to spend their money, but I'm sticking to my "one kickstarter per lifetime" rule.
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The holier than thou attitude is a bit tired.

Plus, the assumption that people only see Kickstarter as a store to buy games is quite false and simplistic. If you had paid any attention during the past year, you'd have realized that to many people kickstarter is:

- an opportunity to support their favorite developers directly sans publisher interference, giving them more flexibility and creative freedom
- an opportunity to give smaller developers a shot they might not otherwise get
- an opportunity to demonstrate to publishers what kind of games the community really wants
- an opportunity to be part of the development process

...and so on. If this is how games are going to be made in the short term, so be it. Publishers aren't going away, but they might listen to the community a little more if these kickstarter games do well commercially when they are each released.
 
J

JesseZao

Member
This system is working wonderfully for these developers, so I applaud them for finding a safe business model. I just cannot put $20 down almost 2 years in advance of getting a product. The project doesn't need my preorder for the game to be made and I get to keep my money for whatever I need in the meantime. Kickstarter is molding into a Free2Play Game Creation Experience. I get to "freeload" while other zealous fans subsidize the creation of products I can enjoy in the future.

The passion for these cult classics is obviously there, but I need a better reward for my investment if I'm going to ever support a kickstarter.

Regardless, I look forward to playing this game in two years.
 
E

ezekial45

Banned
superdeluxe said:
“@BrianFargo: We passed up the first stretch goal before we could get them up to show. We will have them soon to share.”

So we will be getting retro stretch goals!
Click to expand...

I'm very intrigued by what they're gonna be.

It's only been the first day, and it's already shaping up pretty well.
 
P

ParityBit

Member
You know, for only 20 bucks, not only am I getting a game I wanted for so long, I also get the entertainment over the next year +. I enjoy reading the updates, seeing the concept art, talking to the community etc. Even if the game does not live up to my expectations in the head, the ride and outcome is really worth $20 to me.
 
A

ambientmystic

Member
Wanny said:
Almost 1.3M already ?!?!?! Will this madness ever stop?
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If the rate of funding doesn't dip (which is admittedly very unlikely) we're looking at a possible new record for biggest ever funded Kickstarter.

A theoretical maximum of 99 million US dollars.

(1.1 (in 8 hours)x3 (for 24 hours)x30 (days in a month)

Wowzers.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
inXile and Obsidian are the undisputed masters of the art of Kickstarting. i just now learned i can still get Wasteland 2 collectors boxed edition on the inXile website. i think i have a problem (well i have many tbh) because im at poverty level income and my next struggle is to get $150 for WL2 collectors edition lol
 
I

inm8num2

Member
ParityBit said:
You know, for only 20 bucks, not only am I getting a game I wanted for so long, I also get the entertainment over the next year +. I enjoy reading the updates, seeing the concept art, talking to the community etc. Even if the game does not live up to my expectations in the head, the ride and outcome is really worth $20 to me.
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That's how I've felt about Project Eternity. I wasn't sure if I was all that interested, but for $20 it's been great just reading the updates and seeing how the ideas of the game are being assembled. My anticipation for P:E grows exponentially with each update.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Zeliard said:
I'm finding myself more excited for this than even Eternity.

Torment is my #1 game of all-time, and even though Avellone is not involved here, they still have some really great people (Colin McComb, Kevin Saunders, Monte Cook, Mark Morgan) and the Numenera setting seems sumptuous.

This seems a lot more like the game that I (perhaps unfairly) wanted Eternity to be. Unshackled. Complex web of cosmology, bizarre and beautiful art, focus on conversation, personalized story of discovery (of a protagonist who cheats death, no less), etc. It just seems a lot more Torment-y in general, while Eternity is veering more towards the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale side of things.

I'm still very excited for Eternity, and I obviously love Obsidian, but what the boys at inXile are saying and showing when it comes to Torment piques my interest more.
Click to expand...

Project Eternity is our Baldur's Gate 3 and Tides is our Torment 2. I can't say I'm in any way dissatisfied with this outcome ;b
 
A

Anto

Neo Member
ambientmystic said:
If the rate of funding doesn't dip we're looking at a possible new record for biggest ever funded Kickstarter.

A theoretical maximum of 99 million US dollars.

(1.1 (in 8 hours)x3 (for 24 hours)x30 (days in a month)

Wowzers.
Click to expand...

Most (if not all) kickstarters, even the big ones, tend to slow a bit toward the middle and then ramp up again during the end of the funding period. I'm thinking $99 million might be a bit of a stretch.
 
D

Durante

Member
Wasteland 2 had 61,290 backers.
Project Eternity reached 73,986.

Let's hear some predictions for Torment. I say 75000.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
EviLore said:
Project Eternity is our Baldur's Gate 3 and Tides is our Torment 2. I can't say I'm in any way dissatisfied with this outcome ;b
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Yep, we're getting both, so it's all good :)

This Kickstarter-driven revitalization of the CRPG has been quite a thing to witness. And soon enough, experience.
 
D

Diomedeskun

Member
Minsc said:
But the people who are actually pledging don't have an issue so why do you care? I'd rather see the game developed through the kickstarter format than through a publisher myself.

Edit: To expand a little further, I feel kickstarter provides me with better updates, transparency and especially better options in regards to DRM than most games that go through normal publishers, and I also feel I generally get a more complete package than just the game itself and some pre-order DLC.
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Agreed. The way I see it, instead of pitching the game on profitability to a publisher, Fargo has taken that pitch to the potential buyers, eliminating the gatekeeper.

While there is something to be said for the editorial capacity of a publisher, in recent times the stakes for games have been so high that the publishers have eliminated virtually anything risky in most games, ultimately homogenizing everything. Sales need to be so high that many fans of the past are no longer served by the principle publishers, who are now run more by people who care more about shareholders than customers (as they must by law, being public companies).

The idea of kickstarting a second project may run counter to what many see as kickstarter's goal, but Fargo is taking a gamble on a new model, one that is suited to more creative, less flashy content, and that relies on the goodwill of the end user for it's very existance. It requires trust, and a single failure at this early stage will sink the whole effort, but it also fills a need that isn't being met. It also requires an organized, motivated team with the talent to create compelling, original work, as well as the discipline to make it happen within a tolerable timeframe.

Right now, the progress on Wasteland 2 makes me believe they can do it.
 
D

Durante

Member
water_wendi said:
inXile and Obsidian are the undisputed masters of the art of Kickstarting.
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I think the Planetary Annihilation dudes are pretty far up there as well. They managed a multi-million kickstarter for a game that isn't an RPG and doesn't have an existing IP to lean on.
 
D

Delusibeta

Banned
Durante said:
Wasteland 2 had 61,290 backers.
Project Eternity reached 73,986.

Let's hear some predictions for Torment. I say 75000.
Click to expand...

I'm going to say 100k for this one, methinks. We might be talking Star Citizen numbers here, considering PayPal support will be in day two, most likely.
 
L

Llyranor

Member
I'm sticking with 20 for now, though. All the other stretch goals (95, 250) I was considered are gone now, haha! As much as the Numenara corebook would tempt me, I'm not actually going to be playing PnP, so that'd just be a paperweight. Maybe it IS Kickstarter fatigue (I've spent >1500 in the past year :mad: ), but I'm more hesitant to spend on this even though the concept is awesome (but who am I kicking, I'd have poured hundreds into this easily if Avellone had announced a Torment 2)

Zeliard said:
I'm finding myself more excited for this than even Eternity.

Torment is my #1 game of all-time, and even though Avellone is not involved here, they still have some really great people (Colin McComb, Kevin Saunders, Monte Cook, Mark Morgan) and the Numenera setting seems sumptuous.

This seems a lot more like the game that I (perhaps unfairly) wanted Eternity to be. Unshackled. Complex web of cosmology, bizarre and beautiful art, focus on conversation, personalized story of discovery (of a protagonist who cheats death, no less), etc. It just seems a lot more Torment-y in general, while Eternity is veering more towards the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale side of things.

I'm still very excited for Eternity, and I obviously love Obsidian, but what the boys at inXile are saying and showing when it comes to Torment piques my interest more.
Click to expand...
I agree. The story concept here is more interesting than PE.

However, from the design updates we've been having, I'm very excited for the combat/gameplay in PE. But yeah, BG/IWD-esque, which suits me fine!
 
A

ambientmystic

Member
Durante said:
No way, that's not happening. I'd put 5 million as the absolute top end, probably less than that.
Click to expand...

They could always add more tiers to make it a reality :D

As of right now, they should seriously consider upping the current tiers to allow more contributions. Especially for the lower tiers.
 
E

ElectricThunder

Member
This is such a fine spectacle to behold----they really nailed the pitch video from the very first segment to literally the last couple seconds.

Wild to think about how things might go come the weekend since that's when a good bit of Kickstarter damage is done same as people getting off work or whatever late this afternoon/early evening...
 
I

Izick

Member
"What does one life matter?"

I'm so ready for this.

EDIT: Also, is this one of the fastest gaming Kickstarters funded to date? Crazy that a game that sold so poorly is so beloved. It's justice.
 
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