• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Toronto-Age |OT2|

E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
added_time said:
There is NO money for subways! We either build nothing or we build a lot of LRT. I will gladly take something over absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...

I don't know, man. Look at Roncesvalles. How can people live on such a terrible street.[/troll]

lol. People make surface transit out to be some sort of horrible mess, like every route in the city turns into the 501 route. Many other routes move smoothly, and fit in well. And for the love of God people, LRTs are not streetcars. And you wouldn't even replace any of the lines in Transit City with a subway because of population. Even Eglinton being a subway presents a pretty small section that would meet density requirements, and ironically, those parts are going underground. Maybe in the future when people move into these areas, condos rise up and population increases, subways can be looked at in 2050, but right now.. it'd be absurd to build.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Anyone else find Nunziata stepping down as speaker for two minutes just to yell at everyone, and then return to the speaker fairly hilarious?
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
In 30-50 years, public transportation may fundamentally change - technologically I imagine in probably just 20 years, there might be a shift to Public PRT's.

Investing too heavily in a subway infrastructure may be counterproductive to easily expanding into a paradigm shifting advent in public transport.
 
A

AlphaTwo00

Member
Black-Box said:
I think toronto needs more subways, screw LRT to me just seem to waste space when you could have something underground and move faster
Click to expand...
Sure. Subways do move more, are faster, and in the long run, better. But we afford it? Are you paying for it? Who's paying for it?
DiddyBop said:
I kinda believe we do need the subways. The sheppard line would have more people traffic if it wasnt such a joke. subways might be costly now but as the city grows they will be a godsend 30-50 years from now. If we put in LRTs now they will probably have to be replaced with subways regardless as the population grows and traffic becomes alot worse. Subways will futureproof ourselves. they might even spur more suburban condos/businesses around the major transfer stations.
Click to expand...
As mentioned in fact in the meeting, the Yonge line was in development after demands exceeded the capacity of the three parallel streetcar lines servicing it. You don't magically build a subway and hope for ridership to increase, it's a waste of immediate resources unless you can afford to blow money (and you can see that in the Sheppard line).

Your words: "The sheppard line would have more people traffic if it wasnt such a joke". Why is it a joke? Lack of service? Well that's because all the condo developments that it spurred, those people don't use it either. It's a vicious cycle of reduced usage. If they did actually blow all the money into completing the line, it would have been great down the road as people grow into taking advantage of it moving across town; in contrast, we have something no one wants to use because it doesn't get us anywhere.
 
S

sammich

Member
EvilMario said:
I don't know, man. Look at Roncesvalles. How can people live on such a terrible street.[/troll]

lol. People make surface transit out to be some sort of horrible mess, like every route in the city turns into the 501 route. Many other routes move smoothly, and fit in well. And for the love of God people, LRTs are not streetcars. And you wouldn't even replace any of the lines in Transit City with a subway because of population. Even Eglinton being a subway presents a pretty small section that would meet density requirements, and ironically, those parts are going underground. Maybe in the future when people move into these areas, condos rise up and population increases, subways can be looked at in 2050, but right now.. it'd be absurd to build.
Click to expand...

Considering the mess we are in now and seeing how this unfolds, waiting till 2050 is the stupidest thing we could do. Not to mention probably be much more expensive.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
I can't believe Ford continues to have decent support on this. He really has some members of council by the balls. Vote was too close for my comfort, and reminds me of what half the people running the city are thinking.

sammich said:
Considering the mess we are in now and seeing how this unfolds, waiting till 2050 is the stupidest thing we could do. Not to mention probably be much more expensive.
Click to expand...

What is your alternative? To not build anything right now? You want subways, but where, and how? Where is the funding? Where are the pockets of density that encourage subways over LRT right now? Or is it simply disdain for surface transit.
If we wait on LRTs, we have no hope for transit in the city. If we build small subway extensions every ten years, it reaches no one and we may never actually reach population expectations, just like the Sheppard Subway line which was more of a disaster than St Clair will ever be.

I would love to have a subway stop at everyone's door step, but it makes no sense in the way we need to develop the city. You can't replace the Waterfront Line, or the Jane Line, or even the Eglinton line with a subway. It does not reach a population required, and you can't project these sort of growth numbers. LRT is not evil. People need to understand that.
 
A

Azih

Member
EvilMario said:
I can't believe Ford continues to have decent support on this. He really has some members of council by the balls. Vote was too close for my comfort, and reminds me of what half the people running the city are thinking.
Click to expand...

It's not over until the Stintz motion comes up for a vote.
 
R

Rinoa

Member
Stream not here? http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/327986

PortTwo said:
Most of these worries are unfounded. We still have apartment buildings from the 1950s standing. Plus the population pressure is doing anything but abating, so the prices haven't crashed.

An agent will answer most of these questions. The one thing I will say, any time you buy pre-built, they always always go way over the time estimate for move-in. I have never bought a condo myself (have a house) but everyone I know who bought pre-built got burned by the delays.
Click to expand...

Should also add that many condos arent going to be built unless the people pay beforehand. I know that the one at dupont/bathurst isn't getting finished because they need to sell units (for stupidly high prices).
 
W

winjet81

Member
In the context of rapid transit spending in Toronto, not only is it a colossal waste of money to choose subway over LRT, but it's even more insane to support subway expansion of a completely dead line.

Honestly, any extension of that line would make more sense if it linked Sheppard Station with Downsview station to close the Yonge/Spadina loop.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
winjet81 said:
In the context of rapid transit spending in Toronto, not only is it a colossal waste of money to choose subway over LRT, but it's even more insane to support subway expansion of a completely dead line.

Honestly, any extension of that line would make more sense if it linked Sheppard Station with Downsview station to close the Yonge/Spadina loop.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised the discussion of the Sheppard Line has not come up more. People love to throw St Clair under the bus, but ridership numbers are actually great this far in whereas Sheppard is failing on every level you could imagine when you build a subway. This is why you can't build subways at ten times the cost, and pray that people move to the area.

edit: lol, someone just tweeted 'Transtintz City'

Azih said:
It's not over until the Stintz motion comes up for a vote.
Click to expand...

Trust me, I'm still shaking in my boots.
 
R

Rinoa

Member
When will these people learn?

Loads of money and research went into the LRT plans, personal opinion (i.e. "waah I want a subway even if I can't pay for it") doesn't trump it.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Oh no! Cold!

You know what's cold? Walking to a subway station when there could be an LRT stop much closer nearby.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Building LRTs across Scarborough means Scarborough is getting boned. You heard it here first.

Divvy said:
Oh no! Cold!

You know what's cold? Walking to a subway station when there could be an LRT stop much closer nearby.
Click to expand...

A lot of the open air stations (in Scarborough, heh heh) are cold as hell. Some streetcars I board are hotter than the subway trains. Grasping at straws at this point, with an irrational fear of surface transit.
 
R

Rinoa

Member
People are cold.

Um, okay. Most people in scarborough don't have to wait that long for buses. Not to mention, most people in scarborough use cars if they're going to decide not to go out due to cold..
 
B

Brandson

Member
EvilMario said:
I'm surprised the discussion of the Sheppard Line has not come up more. People love to throw St Clair under the bus, but ridership numbers are actually great this far in whereas Sheppard is failing on every level you could imagine when you build a subway. This is why you can't build subways at ten times the cost, and pray that people move to the area.
Click to expand...

If the Sheppard subway turned down Don Mills (no transfer required) and somehow got to Queen before heading west to re-connect with the Yonge line, it would get massive ridership and relieve congestion on the Yonge line from Sheppard all the way downtown. It makes a lot more sense than building the Sheppard subway out east. I suggested that to Sarah Thomson (who was pro-DRL, pro-road tolls, and generally pro-establishing sustainable funding for transit expansion through whatever means possible) when she came campaigning for mayor at my door before and she agreed with me. Josh Matlow was also pro-DRL when I spoke with him. Hopefully any future DRL studies and pitches to other governments consider that as an option. LRT on Finch, Eglinton and replacing the Scarborough RT makes sense though.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Brandson said:
If the Sheppard subway turned down Don Mills (no transfer required) and somehow got to Queen before heading west to re-connect with the Yonge line, it would get massive ridership and relieve congestion on the Yonge line from Sheppard all the way downtown. It makes a lot more sense than building the Sheppard subway out east. I suggested that to Sarah Thomson (who was pro-DRL, pro-road tolls, and generally pro-establishing sustainable funding for transit expansion through whatever means possible) when she came campaigning for mayor at my door before and she agreed with me. Josh Matlow was also pro-DRL when I spoke with him. Hopefully any future DRL studies and pitches to other governments consider that as an option. LRT on Finch, Eglinton and replacing the Scarborough RT makes sense though.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but population in the area definitely hasn't grown like they thought.

But you raise a good point. They anticipated more people driving down to the stations, parking and riding downtown.

But because you have to transfer on to the YUS line so far up, it can take forever to get downtown. Sometimes twice as long as driving. Sheppard was a mess for a bunch of reasons, thanks for giving us a little more insight.
 
L

LevelNth

Banned
winjet81 said:
In the context of rapid transit spending in Toronto, not only is it a colossal waste of money to choose subway over LRT, but it's even more insane to support subway expansion of a completely dead line.

Honestly, any extension of that line would make more sense if it linked Sheppard Station with Downsview station to close the Yonge/Spadina loop.
Click to expand...
The Sheppard Line is and will always be a poor decision, but what's done is done. I believe it is a mistake to use a previous error in judgement as a means of justifying completely abandoning subway development.

Honestly, if people think transit and transportation in Toronto is an issue now, they have no idea what it will be in 10 years. There are 100's of half filled condos and incomplete condo constructions that will eventually fill, and the burden on the system (especially on the Yonge line) is going to be catastrophic.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
Sorry forgot to report about that Guu Izakaya place.

So I went there on Friday with a date. Went to the Church St. location, was only a 40 minute wait not too bad. The atmosphere was absolutely phenomenal.

Place was lively as hell, the waiters were very outgoing and boisterous. They cheered when you came into the restaurant and said bye as you left, was pretty awesome.

The food was pretty awesome too, I had some Takoyaki, Okonomiyaki, and some salmon takori (tatori?). All of it exquisite. Only bad thing I could see from all this was the okonomiyaki smelt awful but the taste was to die for.

I'd recommend the place to anyone who wants to try something new but as some have said here you'll have to wait a little while to get in but once you're in so worth it.

tldr;

I don't know how much you guys know about japanese culture (I'm an expert)...
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Kave_Man said:
Sorry forgot to report about that Guu Izakaya place.

So I went there on Friday with a date. Went to the Church St. location, was only a 40 minute wait not too bad. The atmosphere was absolutely phenomenal.

Place was lively as hell, the waiters were very outgoing and boisterous. They cheered when you came into the restaurant and said bye as you left, was pretty awesome.

The food was pretty awesome too, I had some Takoyaki, Okonomiyaki, and some salmon takori (tatori?). All of it exquisite. Only bad thing I could see from all this was the okonomiyaki smelt awful but the taste was to die for.

I'd recommend the place to anyone who wants to try something new but as some have said here you'll have to wait a little while to get in but once you're in so worth it.

tldr;

I don't know how much you guys know about japanese culture (I'm an expert)...
Click to expand...

Speaking of okonomiyaki, this is one of my favorite guilty pleasure food places in the city. Very cheap, and just south of Yonge and Bloor (but hidden a bit)

http://www.yelp.com/biz/okonomi-house-restaurant-toronto
 
S

Spl1nter

Member
Divvy said:
Oh no! Cold!

You know what's cold? Walking to a subway station when there could be an LRT stop much closer nearby.
Click to expand...

Cold?!? Clearly none of these people have been out this winter. Basically t shirt and shorts weather the entire winter so far.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Spl1nter said:
Cold?!? Clearly none of these people have been out this winter. Basically t shirt and shorts weather the entire winter so far.
Click to expand...

I lived in the GTA most of my life, and last year I spent a year in Ottawa. It's made me think Toronto is full of sissies when it comes to the cold, hehe.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
I like Cho, because he does seem like one of the councillors that will actually vote for what's right.. regardless of who else is backing it. He actually cares about people.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Stintz still has too much taint for me from her previous actions to consider her for Mayor (unless it was her vs someone like Ford). Seems to be out for herself a little too much. I'm still on the Wong-Tam for Mayor bandwagon.

Wong-Tam does bring up a point too. It's pathetic how few of TTC stations have elevators, and must be nightmares for people with disabilities to move around. They've been adding these.. slowly.. oh so very slowly. I thought they were adding one to Runnymede when they closed it, but they just redid the bus depot. :(
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
I've always wondered how so many subway stations got away with not being wheelchair accessible.

Oh god.... Here we go...
 
S

Spl1nter

Member
EvilMario said:
Stintz still has too much taint for me from her previous actions to consider her for Mayor (unless it was her vs someone like Ford). Seems to be out for herself a little too much. I'm still on the Wong-Tam for Mayor bandwagon.
Click to expand...

but she sounds like a feminist commie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

So I've been to Venice
39
3K
ForAcademicPurposes replied
Robocop: Rogue City | Review Thread
Analysis Review 3 4 5 6 7
327
27K
Chuck Berry replied
Frostpunk 2 | Review Thread
Review
12
2K
geary replied
Dragon Age: Veilguard New Details
News 2 3 4
156
11K
Hudo replied
Japan Travel |OT| starting out a new journey
Community
12
719
Robot Carnival replied
Top Bottom