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Toronto-Age |OT2|

People forget about the other piece of that equation. It seems like 90% of the gun violence in this city is black on black. Mostly Caribbean.

How do you solve something like that?

I was talking to a friend of mine about it who is Jamaican but moved out of his neighborhood to a more mixed area of town. He was saying that the entire community where he grew up hates the police so the only way to make any progress on it would have to come from strong leaders from within. I think he's right but what kind of leadership? It's tough.
 
I was talking to a friend of mine about it who is Jamaican but moved out of his neighborhood to a more mixed area of town. He was saying that the entire community where he grew up hates the police so the only way to make any progress on it would have to come from strong leaders from within. I think he's right but what kind of leadership? It's tough.

I don't really have much authority on the issue, but from what I've seen that's true. There's no real, strong male role models in that community, aside from the wrong sort of role model. They need someone to stand up and say "Stay the fuck in school, and don't abandon your kids." Until then, it's just going to get worse.

Note: This isn't racism. This is a problem with culture.
 

Azih

Member
This isn't racism. This is a problem with culture.
I'd say it's a problem with not feeling connected or in any way invested in the wider community. Special attention has to be paid to those in the margins. Hell maybe the Africentric school will actually work though I hate the very idea. I mean something has to be done.
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
I don't really have much authority on the issue, but from what I've seen that's true. There's no real, strong male role models in that community, aside from the wrong sort of role model. They need someone to stand up and say "Stay the fuck in school, and don't abandon your kids." Until then, it's just going to get worse.

Note: This isn't racism. This is a problem with culture.

I'd say it's a problem with not feeling connected or in any way invested in the wider community. Special attention has to be paid to those in the margins. Hell maybe the Africentric school will actually work though I hate the very idea. I mean something has to be done.

I think you both are pretty bang on.

My mom made a point to move me and my brother out of Jane & Finch when we were little to give us as she said "a better life". When we came to Vaughan she made sure to purposely put me into the schools that had a diverse array of cultures in it. I remember when I was really young I did ask her why I couldn't go to Glen Shields (aka the black school) she looked me in the eye and told me she didn't want me hanging out with those kids, she wanted me to meet people different then myself. I'm really glad she did looking back.
 
I think you both are pretty bang on.

My mom made a point to move me and my brother out of Jane & Finch when we were little to give us as she said "a better life". When we came to Vaughan she made sure to purposely put me into the schools that had a diverse array of cultures in it. I remember when I was really young I did ask her why I couldn't go to Glen Shields (aka the black school) she looked me in the eye and told me she didn't want me hanging out with those kids, she wanted me to meet people different then myself. I'm really glad she did looking back.
LOL. Glen Shields is the black school now? But then you went to Vaughan Secondary!
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
LOL. Glen Shields is the black school now? But then you went to Vaughan Secondary!

Glen Shields was always the black school you know this! The majority of the black families did live in that Glen Shields area.

I ended up going to Charlton for elementary school where I was one of 4 black kids in my graduating class of around 40ish.

And hey Vaughan settled down by the time I got there, school was cancelled basically when there were jewish holidays.
 
I remember when I was really young I did ask her why I couldn't go to Glen Shields (aka the black school) she looked me in the eye and told me she didn't want me hanging out with those kids, she wanted me to meet people different then myself. I'm really glad she did looking back.

I'm white and went to an all Chinese school. What a great way to grow up. I loved it!



What part of the city has the craziest construction?

The two parts that spring to mind are:

1. the "southcore" extension of the financial district happening just south of the train tracks. That area didn't even exist 10 years ago and now there are thousands of square feet of office space with more being built now and tons of condos.

2. the entertainment distinct: there are about 45 condos being built or in the planning stages in that area.. I doubt it will resemble what it was before after they are all built but it's definitely one of the craziest areas for construction in the city
 
I'd say it's a problem with not feeling connected or in any way invested in the wider community. Special attention has to be paid to those in the margins. Hell maybe the Africentric school will actually work though I hate the very idea. I mean something has to be done.

The Africentric school won't do anything if there's still this cultural meme that you have to "keep it real". School's just a joke, something they're forced to go to. The curriculum is irrelevant.
 
Having partially grown up in the Lawerence-Morningside area I can say I'm not very surprised by the shootings. Yea, it's a pretty rare event, but it was only a matter of time until something like this happened considering the attitude of so many of the youth that live in the area. Ugh it's really hard not to be slightly racist when stuff like this happens.
 

Dyno

Member
I don't feel right lumping the gang shootings into 'black crime.' That shooting in the Eaton Centre and the violence that followed it was Somali based. Lumping Africans and Carribeans together is like lumping Canadians and Americans together. Two totally differnent styles of people going about completely different things.
 
Having partially grown up in the Lawerence-Morningside area I can say I'm not very surprised by the shootings. Yea, it's a pretty rare event, but it was only a matter of time until something like this happened considering the attitude of so many of the youth that live in the area. Ugh it's really hard not to be slightly racist when stuff like this happens.

It's not a racial issue. It's a cultural issue. You got idiot youth role-playing that they're thug gangstas, and when you role-play for long enough it turns into the real thing. Especially when someone throws a gun into the mix.

Wow. People are posting revenge threats on a public thing like twitter that anyone (including the police) can read? They really haven't thought this through.

Ya, let's hope it's all for show. This shit went down too close to home for me. It honestly makes me nervous about the Ribfest this year.
 
It's not a racial issue. It's a cultural issue. You got idiot youth role-playing that they're thug gangstas, and when you role-play for long enough it turns into the real thing. Especially when someone throws a gun into the mix.

Yea, I know. I'm just as "racist" against white guys that wear XXXL t shirts and sag their pants as I am against blacks or browns or whatever. Growing up around these idiots has left me a little bit...annoyed about how they act. What would be a better word to describe that than "slightly racist"? I really don't know. I just find myself hating these yougn idiots that are brain washed by hiphop and their enviroment to be morons. The first 5 friends that come off the top of my head are Persian, Chinese, Jamaican, Jewish, and Indian. I'm not really racist at all, I was at a friends BBQ where 90% of the people were black just a few weeks ago. The difference was everyone there had a brain. The famous Chris Rock skit always pops into my head when I get into this type of discussion...
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
I didn't use to think we had a major gang issue in this city. I guess it just wasn't out in the open like it is now. It's pretty depressing.
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
Yea, I know. I'm just as "racist" against white guys that wear XXXL t shirts and sag their pants as I am against blacks or browns or whatever. Growing up around these idiots has left me a little bit...annoyed about how they act. What would be a better word to describe that than "slightly racist"? I really don't know. I just find myself hating these yougn idiots that are brain washed by hiphop and their enviroment to be morons. The first 5 friends that come off the top of my head are Persian, Chinese, Jamaican, Jewish, and Indian. I'm not really racist at all, I was at a friends BBQ where 90% of the people were black just a few weeks ago. The difference was everyone there had a brain. The famous Chris Rock skit always pops into my head when I get into this type of discussion...

I'll start off by saying I don't know you, nor am I making an assumption on you at all but that right there is basically "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

:lol
 
Yea, I know. I'm just as "racist" against white guys that wear XXXL t shirts and sag their pants as I am against blacks or browns or whatever. Growing up around these idiots has left me a little bit...annoyed about how they act. What would be a better word to describe that than "slightly racist"? I really don't know. I just find myself hating these yougn idiots that are brain washed by hiphop and their enviroment to be morons. The first 5 friends that come off the top of my head are Persian, Chinese, Jamaican, Jewish, and Indian. I'm not really racist at all, I was at a friends BBQ where 90% of the people were black just a few weeks ago. The difference was everyone there had a brain. The famous Chris Rock skit always pops into my head when I get into this type of discussion...
"Openly aware of cultural difficulties in certain communities and not in a manner of racial hatred or ignorance" is the best description I can think of.

Either way, you're gonna get called racist.

I didn't use to think we had a major gang issue in this city. I guess it just wasn't out in the open like it is now. It's pretty depressing.

We didn't used to. Or if we did, it's been severely inflamed by dis videos on YouTube and dis tweets.
 
I'll start off by saying I don't know you, nor am I making an assumption on you at all but that right there is basically "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

:lol

Well, I have several black friends, but yea, pretty much. :D

I mean...racism is such a sensitive issue that it's hard to get your point across without coming off as an ignorant redneck. I grew up in a very multicultural neighbourhood so I feel like I can get a pass when it comes to making observations based on peoples race. I would never discriminate against someone simply because of their race. If you go to the reddit thread a few posts back and read through the twitter accounts of all the people involved you'll see those are the type of people I hate. I would hate them just as much if they were white. I judge people based on their actions and words. It just so happens that a lot of idiots in the news these days happen to be black.

"Openly aware of cultural difficulties in certain communities and not in a manner of racial hatred or ignorance" is the best description I can think of.

Either way, you're gonna get called racist.

That's a very eloquent way of putting it. If only there was a simple word for that...
 
I'll start off by saying I don't know you, nor am I making an assumption on you at all but that right there is basically "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

:lol

haha I thought that too. It's a classic!

My brother has a very good friend from Sri Lanka but he is still VERY prejudiced against people from there. It's interesting.


I'm gay married to a visible minority so I'm allowed to be as racist as I want and none of you can touch me.

You are just throwing that statement out there in the hopes that one of us sexy nerds WILL touch you!
 
Well, I have several black friends, but yea, pretty much. :D

I mean...racism is such a sensitive issue that it's hard to get your point across without coming off as an ignorant redneck. I grew up in a very multicultural neighbourhood so I feel like I can get a pass when it comes to making observations based on peoples race. I would never discriminate against someone simply because of their race. If you go to the reddit thread a few posts back and read through the twitter accounts of all the people involved you'll see those are the type of people I hate. I would hate them just as much if they were white. I judge people based on their actions and words. It just so happens that a lot of idiots in the news these days happen to be black.

Same, although I grew up in an all-white suburb.

I get frustrated sometimes, I admit. I have to explain that it's not the colour of skin that bothers me, or where someone is from exactly... it's behaviour. Behaviour can then be associated with posture or the way someone dresses, and you can make presumptions. :/
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
I refuse to touch Roto...despite the allures of that sexy avatar...

Honestly I really love that avatar, it speaks to me.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
I refuse to touch Roto...despite the allures of that sexy avatar...

Honestly I really love that avatar, it speaks to me.

I just want to see the rest of it...

EDIT: As for ribfest, well you just gotta decide if you want ribs more than getting shot/hit by lightning
 
Same, although I grew up in an all-white suburb.

I get frustrated sometimes, I admit. I have to explain that it's not the colour of skin that bothers me, or where someone is from exactly... it's behaviour. Behaviour can then be associated with posture or the way someone dresses, and you can make presumptions. :/

Exactly. If a white guy dressed up like he just came out of a rap video walks off a TTC bus with me at 1am and follows me to my transfer stop at Victoria Park and Finch I'm going to be a hell of a lot more paranoid than if a black guy in a suit did the same thing.

As for ribsfest...dude...ribsfest > life. Easy choice.
 
Rexdale has actually been quiet for awhile now, aside from a few shootings here or there. I think the value of the houses here are actually appreciating.
 
Exactly. If a white guy dressed up like he just came out of a rap video walks off a TTC bus with me at 1am and follows me to my transfer stop at Victoria Park and Finch I'm going to be a hell of a lot more paranoid than if a black guy in a suit did the same thing.

As for ribsfest...dude...ribsfest > life. Easy choice.

Yup, even further, when I see a white guy wearing TapOut, Ed Hardy, or simply a wife beater, I assume bad things about them.

Am I an awful person? Probably.

As for ribfest... I may not even be in town. :/
 
Glen Shields was always the black school you know this! The majority of the black families did live in that Glen Shields area.

I ended up going to Charlton for elementary school where I was one of 4 black kids in my graduating class of around 40ish.

And hey Vaughan settled down by the time I got there, school was cancelled basically when there were jewish holidays.
True. Aright, Kave_Man, we'll drink over this at TOGaf meetup.
 
If you're making public statements about the night in question, why would it be surprising that a reporter would contact you?

23 victims now accd. to CBC.

I find the public solicitation of an interview to be strange, that's all. I'm sure it's not abnormal but it's new to me.
 

Boogie

Member
We didn't used to. Or if we did, it's been severely inflamed by dis videos on YouTube and dis tweets.

I didn't use to think we had a major gang issue in this city. I guess it just wasn't out in the open like it is now. It's pretty depressing.


Umm, what?

Does "The Year of the Gun" not ring any bells with you folks?


We've been over this before. Factually speaking, violent crime in Toronto has been at historic lows. In 1991, there were 89 murders in Toronto. In 2011, there were 46 murders in Toronto.

In spite of having a fairly low crime rate compared to other cities, Toronto has always had gang issues. This is not a new development.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto#Late_1980s_and_early_1990s
 

Quadratic

Member
It's really sad about the shooting in Scarborough. It's always depressing that violence seems to be the only news coming from there.

A note about the weather. Man, it was muggy and gross today. Still is at 9:30 in the evening. Hopefully tomorrow will be less humid.
 
It's really sad about the shooting in Scarborough. It's always depressing that violence seems to be the only news coming from there.

I've been coming here for 7 years, and I moved here a few years ago. The stigma against Scarborough is undeserved. It's not an exciting place, sure, but it's not a ghetto by any means.

Etobicoke is a worse part of the city, in my opinion, and it gets off generally ignored.

A note about the weather. Man, it was muggy and gross today. Still is at 9:30 in the evening. Hopefully tomorrow will be less humid.

I went out on my bike around 9:30. Muggy as hell.

But I hope it rains overnight. We need it.
 

Black-Box

Member
did anyone get a thunderstorm that lives by the lake? an hour ago a loud long bang happened that sounded like thunder, but it never happened again and no lighting or rain.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
So Kenzo ramen is pretty damn good. Waaaay better than the Ajisen near me.

I still need to go check out that new place downtown opened by the Guu people.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
I've been coming here for 7 years, and I moved here a few years ago. The stigma against Scarborough is undeserved. It's not an exciting place, sure, but it's not a ghetto by any means.

Etobicoke is a worse part of the city, in my opinion, and it gets off generally ignored.
I remember a few years ago a couple of councilors getting upset with news outlets because they would always say "Scarborough" when something happened anywhere within Scarborough but give the closest intersection for anything any where else in the city. You don't hear about crime in North York when stuff happens at Jane and Finch. Scarborough makes up about 30% of the entire city in terms of area so it's easy to constantly hear "Scarborough" in the news.

EDIT: About Etobicoke, 23 Division has had the same amount of shootings so far this year as all three Scarborough Divisions combined.

shootings_map.jpg
 

IISANDERII

Member
Mayor Ford again said that Toronto is the safest city in the world? Yea Toronto is one of the safest in North America, but I'd bet there are a hundred cities in Europe that are far safer.
What possible incentive is there for stating such obvious fiction?
 

Brinbe

Member
Fuck, another homicide!? Man, I know we're not exactly Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, or East St. Louis, but this is awful. Just a terrible few months, without question.

But I'm happy that people are clearly upset and intolerant of this behavior and violence in all of this city. Hope we don't stop feeling that way and never lapse into complacency. These are all people, not mere stats.
 

Boogie

Member
Mayor Ford again said that Toronto is the safest city in the world? Yea Toronto is one of the safest in North America, but I'd bet there are a hundred cities in Europe that are far safer.
What possible incentive is there for stating such obvious fiction?

Because.....stay with me here.....he's a politician.
 
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