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Toronto-Age |OT2|

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
What do you mean by commercial spaces? I do think the city should force a retail component into the base of every condo even if they will have trouble making money on it right away because it helps reduce car trips if all streets are lined with retail stores.


About the designs, I agree with you that most of the designs are pretty bland... fortunately, there have been a couple nice ones either just built or being built now that I really like:

I still agree with you that the architecture on 90% of the condos is crap but I'm just glad there are ones like these to cheer me up!

I mostly agree with this entire post. The typical 'condo' look is not my favourite, and there are many cookie cutter designs. That said, I don't think they're 1970s apartment / condo levels of terrible; These buildings plague many major North American cities, including our own. Most of the new condos, including the ones going up around me are uninspired, but they're not ugly.

And to the first point, there has to be better planning with development. The four buildings that have gone up near my apartment have zero retail space, and only two have office space. With all the townhouses, and condos in the area now, it's very sad that there's nothing to walk to in the area. At least downtown, there seems to be a better grasp.. or push.. for mixed development. That said, long time tenants of smaller shops will mostly be forced out of the space because of the increase in rent with the new condo.

Side note: I always found it amazing that landlords along Queen St W would rather have their offices sit empty for years on end, than lower the rent of a unit.

I mean the core. I don't mind living around college kids, since I literally just graduated. I've heard living around college st or chinatown can go as low as 600 if you get a roomate. If I live downtown I wouldn't expect to live by myself at least for the first few years.

For sure, $600 per month with a roommate is easily doable around Chinatown. But you might want to look a bit further north into the Annex, with the student crowd. Lots of apartment buildings, and a lot of people looking for roommates. Viewit.ca has a bunch of listings for the area, and it's probably worth your time to just walk around and call up apartments (most of big signs with phone numbers in the front yard) you see.
 

thabiz

Member
I mean the core. I don't mind living around college kids, since I literally just graduated. I've heard living around college st or chinatown can go as low as 600 if you get a roomate. If I live downtown I wouldn't expect to live by myself at least for the first few years.

Well if you want a roomate, then that changes things. I lived in a house with 3 other people and my rent was $500. King and Bathurst.
 
Why does every lot have to be a condo? We could be using the space to add commerce to the people of downtown, rather than more people. Or maybe more government housing. Or more schools, daycare centers, etc.

Its just condo's and hotels.

You know how Queen street looks? Yonge Street? King Street? See how they are lined with businesses with residential above it? Those are only 2-3 storeys and it works very well and were built over 100 years ago. What I'm saying is that the new condos should be built like that. No matter how tall they are, they should follow the same idea and be forced to meet the street and have retail in the bottom.

Or you mentioned schools, there is no reason a condo developer couldn't be forced to build a school (which is happening at Cityplace). They are also building lots of government housing right now but they look exactly like luxury condos so you probably didn't even realize that. (which is a smart move in terms of removing the stigma attached to living in them)

For example, this beautiful building is government housing but everybody that walks by it thinks it's a luxury condo because it looks like one:

9UWt3.jpg



The village does have wicked rent. It's very odd for toronto (the core). Its a very popular, in demand location, yet has low rent. I would love to know why.

I think it's because most of the apartments around there are older so they aren't in as good condition as some other neighborhoods (but still very livable in my opinion)
 

Stet

Banned
What do you mean by commercial spaces? I do think the city should force a retail component into the base of every condo even if they will have trouble making money on it right away because it helps reduce car trips if all streets are lined with retail stores.

Oh, yeah that's a given. I mean office spaces. The more office towers, the cheaper it'll be to do business in Toronto and the more the city will grow.
 

thabiz

Member
Oh, yeah that's a given. I mean office spaces. The more office towers, the cheaper it'll be to do business in Toronto and the more the city will grow.

Cost of having a business in TO is insane. Thats why most are moving to the suburbs. It wont be cheaper, it will go up, cause the demand is there.
 
Oh, yeah that's a given. I mean office spaces. The more office towers, the cheaper it'll be to do business in Toronto and the more the city will grow.

Toronto has actually added a TON of new office space in the last 5 years and is building even more right now. People just don't notice it because there are so many buildings here.
There is a new monster skyscraper at Bay and Adelaide and another one to start on that corner soon, the RBC Centre from the photo of the day, the Telus Building, another RBC building at the waterfront, another skyscraper being built at Bremner. I follow skyscraper developments religiously so I know about all this boring stuff.
There has been 5 million square feet of office space built in the downtown core in just the past 2 years (that is more than 1/5 the total office space in Vancouver) with much more in the process of being built now.

Sorry, I know I'm blabbing a lot today but I just know a lot about this pointless crap and finally have somewhere to mention it. haha


Cost of having a business in TO is insane. Thats why most are moving to the suburbs. It wont be cheaper, it will go up, cause the demand is there.

Most movement is actually the opposite of what you just said. The current trend is that most companies are moving from the suburbs to the downtown core:

Why Toronto businesses are moving downtown
 

thabiz

Member
Toronto has actually added a TON of new office space in the last 5 years and is building even more right now. People just don't notice it because there are so many buildings here.
There is a new monster skyscraper at Bay and Adelaide and another one to start on that corner soon, the RBC Centre from the photo of the day, the Telus Building, another RBC building at the waterfront, another skyscraper being built at Bremner. I follow skyscraper developments religiously so I know about all this boring stuff.
There has been 5 million square feet of office space built in the downtown core in just the past 2 years (that more than 1/5 the total office space in Vancouver) with much more in the process of being built now.

Sorry, I know I'm blabbing a lot today but I just know a lot about this pointless crap and finally have somewhere to mention it. haha

There was a bidding war when we moved into the Telus building. Our rent is astronomical, and comes with a crazy amount of stipulations. If thats how most office spaces operate, which i've heard they do, companies wont bother.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
There was a bidding war when we moved into the Telus building. Our rent is astronomical, and comes with a crazy amount of stipulations.

Less to do with space, and more to do with holding companies hostage on prices. Like I said, when we were looking for a new office downtown, we would come across property owners that had prime office space on Queen St W, just sitting empty for years, because they refused to move off their price point for fear of devaluing their property (ie; see space above Urban Outfitter for years). And of course any rental comes with absurdly long lease lengths. This was just for a basic loft like, minimal open office space above retail. Not even trying to get into a new shiny office building. Running a business in this city can't be fun.
 

thabiz

Member
Less to do with space, and more to do with holding companies hostage on prices. Like I said, when we were looking for a new office downtown, we would come across property owners that had prime office space on Queen St W, just sitting empty for years, because they refused to move off their price point for fear of devaluing their property (ie; see space above Urban Outfitter for years). And of course any rental comes with absurdly long lease lengths. This was just for a basic loft like, minimal open office space above retail. Not even trying to get into a new shiny office building. Running a business in this city can't be fun.

I know this sounds crazy, but i think we are heading towards Detroit territory. The incentives in the burbs are too much to ignore. Only the richest companies can compete downtown now.
 
I know this sounds crazy, but i think we are heading towards Detroit territory. The incentives in the burbs are too much to ignore. Only the richest companies can compete downtown now.

Come on, man! I think you are one of the best posters on here and I like your opinions but you know that isn't true!
Toronto is the exact opposite of Detroit.
 

Stet

Banned
Less to do with space, and more to do with holding companies hostage on prices. Like I said, when we were looking for a new office downtown, we would come across property owners that had prime office space on Queen St W, just sitting empty for years, because they refused to move off their price point for fear of devaluing their property (ie; see space above Urban Outfitter for years). And of course any rental comes with absurdly long lease lengths. This was just for a basic loft like, minimal open office space above retail. Not even trying to get into a new shiny office building. Running a business in this city can't be fun.

Queen West is going to hell and I think it's due to the property owners. Every month it seems like a great long-time business either moves out or goes under because they can't afford to keep up with the rent being raised. That space where Pages was is STILL not filled with anything.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Toronto is really no where close to what Detroit was, is, or will be. Detroit suffered like the rest of the rust belt, long before the backbone of their industry crashed (banking and telecom industries probably not crashing down anytime soon). Detroit also experienced a lot of issues that segregated their downtown, which left them open to white flight, and basically left the downtown a deserted mess with no support. Toronto is setup nothing like that, so the primary reason for Detroit failing as a city is nothing we have to worry about. Talking about Toronto losing businesses (especially small businesses) is one thing, but comparing it to Detroit isn't sensible.
 

thabiz

Member
Come on, man! I think you are one of the best posters on here and I like your opinions but you know that isn't true!
Toronto is the exact opposite of Detroit.

Thanks

I don't mean ghost town, no one around after 5. I'm talking strictly corporate presence in the core.

Unless corporate rents come down its not going to be pretty. Only the global corps occupy the major buildings downtown. If we hit a snag, economically, most of those towers will be empty. This is exactly what happened in Detroit. GM got in trouble, bounced, and everyone followed suit. The rents in Detroit at the time were some of the highest in NA. It's all cache. The address on your business card matters a lot these days.

Plus from a IT perspective(which is basically your company these days) the Data Center rates have increased 10 fold. Guess what, its cheaper to host in the burbs. Sauga and Scompton are booming right now with corporations.

I have moved two offices with two separate companies and the rent has increased 150-200% in the new location. It really is getting out of hand. They also put crazy stipulations on companies now for renting in these buildings. Stet is right. We need more corporate presence downtown to further stimulate the economy. This wont happen with the state right now. The burbs are far cheaper and not really that far out for the work force, as most live in the burbs anyway.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
The comparison is still not well founded. There have been way too many topics on various forms trying to compare Toronto to Detroit (or the side, Manhattan), which just don't work in 99% of cases.

Like a lot of cities, many companies have their 'headquarters' downtown and their working offices in the burbs. It's important for corporations imagine to have an office downtown in Manhattan / San Francisco / Toronto, but most will have their major working offices in cheaper to operator areas (Newark, East Bay, Mississauga / Brampton / Markham). It's not the major corporations you should be worried about; Smaller business being driven out is a much larger issues.

But that said, Detroit is a poor example to compare us to because their downfall over the past decade was preceded by a vastly different scenario. Downtown Detroit has not been populated like Toronto when the majority of the 'wealthy/white' population fled to the suburbs during the race riots. It created a much different city over the decades and opening a business in the suburbs meant better access to your employees, better living standards, etc. Cost are not what 'drove businesses out of the city' in the late 60s and into 80s, nor is it what drove people out in the last decade either. It's not as if they just relocated to the burbs in the last decade either; They often left metro area, and even the State, because the jobs left altogether. And Detroit's issues further stem from their primary industry collapsing as you mentioned. We don't have to worry about that (see first part of post). It's not as if 'other businesses followed GM out the door', it's that Detroit had next to nothing left and was already bleeding to death. The industry's collapse just quickened it.

Just leave the comparisons to Detroit out. It's not even poor, it's totally nonsensical. Discuss Toronto on its own merits for the most part, because comparisons rarely turn out well, especially when comparing to something that has almost no similarities. Toronto definitely has issues with businesses, but it's not comparable to Detroit.
 

thabiz

Member
Ok. I admit Detroit was in haste.

We do need to figure something out, because we are a bank oriented city. If those banks leave we are in trouble. The perks to hosting in the burbs is too great to ignore.

We need more corporate offices. Which ties directly to what Stet was saying. Why condo's? Does this not raise an eyebrow? Why arent corps buying up this land? Why is it private developers? Menkes owns half the buildings downtown, but haven't really been at the forefront of the development. Why?

Sorry, i just look at private entity's buying land with no corporate development. It makes me worried.
 

thabiz

Member
Burro Burrito. BURRO BURRITO. Richmond and Spadinaish. Owned and operated by people who speak Spanish!

I was thinking more of a "dining" option, but i will check it out when i'm in the area. I do love me some quick burrito or taco's.

I swear, Banditos had the strongest margarita's in TO. 3 shots at least. I shed a tear when they shut down.
 
Ok. Banditos is gone. Where do i get good mexican downtown?

A great place is La Carnita at College and Palmerston (it's kinda like Grand Electric but less of a wait and almost as good - but not quite as good)

Another pretty good one is Playa Cabana at Dupont and Davenport.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Bandidos shut down? Damn.

I remember trying to drunkenly lead a bunch of Toronto-Gaf at our first meetup there, then everyone complained that it wasn't Burrito Boyz so we went for Chinese instead.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Bandidos shut down? Damn.

I remember trying to drunkenly lead a bunch of Toronto-Gaf at our first meetup there, then everyone complained that it wasn't Burrito Boyz so we went for Chinese instead.

Oh GAF..

I hope Toronto gets a good burrito place some day.
 
Bandidos shut down? Damn.

I remember trying to drunkenly lead a bunch of Toronto-Gaf at our first meetup there, then everyone complained that it wasn't Burrito Boyz so we went for Chinese instead.
I was complaining that where we were heading wasn't Bandidos, but no one knew where it was.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Whats wrong with burrito boyz?

Like nearly every burrito place in Toronto, the ingredients are not fresh, or just wrong (their guacamole makes me cry, and their cheese is processed cheddar, mozzarella, lol ), the sauces they use are generally terrible, or just random hot sauces / salsas from a shelf and the meat is flavourless at best. People rave about their halibut, but it's nothing special at all. The best part is they grill their burrito to make those hour old ingredients in the tray seem hot and fresh.

Everyone tries to imitate the San Francisco style burrito because it looks so easy.. and it should be. But places generally can't even get down the basics. Not a fan of the hilariously long lines at lunch hour either.

The best burrito I've had in the GTA comes from El Sombrero, which is stuck in a little parking lot / strip mall in Mississauga. I was staying at the hotel next to it when I was first in the area, and was so surprised to have a great little authentic Mexican joint right there. Sadly I haven't been in years.

*Note, I grew up in California so my expectations for burritos are.. above the average person in Toronto. But talk to anyone from the South West US and you'll know just how bad we have it here in Toronto for burritos.
 
My favorite burrito I've had in Toronto is at a place at Lower Sherbourne and Front called "Bolet's Burrito". It was cheap and they had some home made hot sauce that was really fucking spicy. I've only been there once back when it first opened so I hope they stuck to their guns with that hot sauce because it was really something special. Although, I have a fear that it would be way too hot for the average person and they might have changed it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
The owners are Filipino but unlike what some other people think, I feel like anyone can make any culture's food if they put in the effort so I don't care that they aren't Mexican.
Anyways, it is worth a shot for any of you guys that want a burrito.

(regarding San Francisco: I ate a lot of burritos while I was there. The best one I had was in the mission but at the end of the day, it was still just a burrito)
 

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Like nearly every burrito place in Toronto, the ingredients are not fresh, or just wrong (their guacamole makes me cry, and their cheese is processed cheddar, mozzarella, lol ), the sauces they use are generally terrible, or just random hot sauces / salsas from a shelf and the meat is flavourless at best. People rave about their halibut, but it's nothing special at all. The best part is they grill their burrito to make those hour old ingredients in the tray seem hot and fresh.

Everyone tries to imitate the San Francisco style burrito because it looks so easy.. and it should be. But places generally can't even get down the basics. Not a fan of the hilariously long lines at lunch hour either.

The best burrito I've had in the GTA comes from El Sombrero, which is stuck in a little parking lot / strip mall in Mississauga. I was staying at the hotel next to it when I was first in the area, and was so surprised to have a great little authentic Mexican joint right there. Sadly I haven't been in years.

*Note, I grew up in California so my expectations for burritos are.. above the average person in Toronto. But talk to anyone from the South West US and you'll know just how bad we have it here in Toronto for burritos.
past pearson?! da fuq?
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
past pearson?! da fuq?

Thus the reason I haven't been back. :p

My favorite burrito I've had in Toronto is at a place at Lower Sherbourne and Front called "Bolet's Burrito". It was cheap and they had some home made hot sauce that was really fucking spicy. I've only been there once back when it first opened so I hope they stuck to their guns with that hot sauce because it was really something special. Although, I have a fear that it would be way too hot for the average person and they might have changed it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
The owners are Filipino but unlike what some other people think, I feel like anyone can make any culture's food if they put in the effort so I don't care that they aren't Mexican.
Anyways, it is worth a shot for any of you guys that want a burrito.

(regarding San Francisco: I ate a lot of burritos while I was there. The best one I had was in the mission but at the end of the day, it was still just a burrito)

People rarely appreciate a burrito as much as they would say, a really great burger (or know what a bad burrito like they would a subpar burger). I'm not sure they know what to look for in flavouring and way too many places rely on 'hot hot hot' over actual taste. Like you said though, lots of 'well it's just a burrito' mindset; Sometimes ignorance is bliss. And no, you don't have to come from the south west to make a good one (there are plenty of bad burritos in California too), but the ones in Toronto are pretty bad was a whole.
 

Stet

Banned
If you hate burrito boys, I highly recommend Burro. It seems like the same kind of assembly line crap, but their ingredients are much better and the flavour is good.
 

jokkir

Member
What would you have rated Burrito Bandito over the rest? They were the only good burrito place I ate at and thought it was pretty good.

Also, what's the location for these burrito places? I might check it out this weekend :p
 
Like you said though, lots of 'well it's just a burrito' mindset; Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

It's not ignorance in my case because I've had a lot of the ones that people say are the best in San Francisco and it's just my opinion.
You brought up burgers and I actually feel the same way about those. The difference between the ok ones and best ones isn't as vast as people say it is. My favorite burgers are when it doesn't even resemble a burger anymore (crazy toppings and lamb meat or something like that) so people don't usually count those on best burger lists anyways.
 

thabiz

Member
It's not ignorance in my case because I've had a lot of the ones that people say are the best in San Francisco and it's just my opinion.
You brought up burgers and I actually feel the same way about those. The difference between the ok ones and best ones isn't as vast as people say it is. My favorite burgers are when it doesn't even resemble a burger anymore (crazy toppings and lamb meat or something like that) so people don't usually count those on best burger lists anyways.

Le Select does a great lamb burger. Nice and simple, but full of flavour.
 

Stet

Banned
It's not ignorance in my case because I've had a lot of the ones that people say are the best in San Francisco and it's just my opinion.
You brought up burgers and I actually feel the same way about those. The difference between the ok ones and best ones isn't as vast as people say it is. My favorite burgers are when it doesn't even resemble a burger anymore (crazy toppings and lamb meat or something like that) so people don't usually count those on best burger lists anyways.

The only thing I like better about Mission District style burritos is that they're grilled.


Best burger I've had in the city was at North 44. But it had foie on it...
 
I saw that there is a Five Guys Burgers and Fries place in Toronto. Has anyone eaten there?

I've been to the one at Eglinton and Warden. It's good for the in-between style burger(Not fastfood but not gourmet, either). It was way better than Lick's and comparable to Apache Burger. They murder the burger with toppings, which is a plus for me, and the amount of fries you get(very well seasoned) is simply insane. For the cost, though, I'd rather go to a gourmet style place like The Yellow Griffin Pub if available.
 

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
I saw that there is a Five Guys Burgers and Fries place in Toronto. Has anyone eaten there?

Was there on Friday. It was decent and better than your average fast food joint.

I posted about it awhile back. I like how if you order regular fries, they literally put some in the standard fry holder and then DUMP the rest of the fries in the bag.

Worth it for the drive up there? ehhhhhh.....
 

cube444

Member
Was there on Friday. It was decent and better than your average fast food joint.

I posted about it awhile back. I like how if you order regular fries, they literally put some in the standard fry holder and then DUMP the rest of the fries in the bag.

Worth it for the drive up there? ehhhhhh.....

A new one is opening soon south of Eglinton on Laird.
 
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