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[Stet]

Most of them don't just chop off the fin

Yeah? Where's your source on that?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Yeah? Where's your source on that?

They sell shark steaks, if they just chop off the fin then where would they get the shark steaks?

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I'm not going to take sides on this whole Shark Fin issue, but I'm terribly disappointed in the Chinese community's inability to frame their concern correctly. If you were to ask any individual about how shark fin is obtained, they'd all be against it; however, the way the ban is worded seems overtly biased, and other than exercising self restraint, doesn't ACTUALLY help the cause of protecting sharks if Toronto doesn't end up bring more places in North America and worldwide to adopt the same ban.

IIRC, York Region doesn't have anything like this. So think about how absurd it is for one restaurant south of Steeles not to be able to serve it while another north of it can. Well, kiss your business goodbye.

 

[Stet]

They sell shark steaks, if they just chop off the fin then where would they get the shark steaks?

From a much smaller number of sharks? You can get several steaks from a single shark. You can get one fin.

Fins are much more expensive than steaks due to the "tradition" of Chinese Wedding soup, which makes it a much more lucrative market. Fishermen in China have the option of: taking whole sharks and using a large amount of storage space for a small profit or finning the shark and throwing the still living body in the water to die and packing hundreds of fins in their hold for a huge profit.

 

[Rinoa]

Indeed, the real problem here is that there's such a demand for it. A lot of $$$ traditions around weddings are made up of BS and people do them because of pressure from the older generation (who are often footing these wedding bills).

 

[EvilMario]

TTC system map (streetcars, subway) with stops seperated by time. Sort of cool, but obviously not peak hours. If Spadina -> Roncesvalles only took me 15 minutes at 6:00pm, I would looove it.

Click for high res original.

 

[added_time]

What a cool map. I always have to go to Scarborough to visit family so I'm well aware of the Vic Park - Warden - Kennedy subway stops taking a lot longer than most other stops.

 

[lunarworks]

What a cool map. I always have to go to Scarborough to visit family so I'm well aware of the Vic Park - Warden - Kennedy subway stops taking a lot longer than most other stops.

Ya, when I started taking the subway to the east end, I used to notice how long those stops took. Now I'm used to it.

Now, the stops going up to Yorkdale. Those are gruelling.

 

[The Interrobanger]

http://robfrusck.tumblr.com/

 

[Stet]

http://robfrusck.tumblr.com/

Holy shit

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

http://robfrusck.tumblr.com/

Why did I open this at work? Why didn't I know what would happen?

 

[Fuzzy]

http://robfrusck.tumblr.com/

Sloth love Chunk!

 

[Divvy]

Most of them don't just chop off the fin and toss them back, they sell the meat and use the skeleton because of the high level of cartilage. That said, when you get sharks out of the water, they don't live very long, and they're fish, they're not mammals, cows are killed by driving a large spike through their heads (imagine if you're a cow and someone is holding you in a device and you're waiting for the machine to blow your brains out), yeah steaks are fucking delicious, next thing you know we might have to find more humane way of harvesting seaweed.

Not sure how you can raise sharks like cattle.

Human existence grossly affects every single ecosystem, we might as well all off ourselves.

Unfortunately, that is not frequently true. It is more lucrative for them to just harvest the fins as they're easier to smuggle than whole sharks.

Shark finning is a cost-cutting gimmick, to get more fins, without wasting precious time and boat space. It takes place solely at sea, so only the fins need to be transported to mainland, without the bulky shark bodies.

→ Shark meat is not as valuable or costly, as fins. Shark fins are a billion dollar industry. A pound of shark fin can cost up to $300.

→ Sharks are selective reproducers. Unlike other fish, they produce few, well-developed young, rather than a bulk of under-developed babies. They also sexually mature slowly, so their reproductive cycles take place later in life. This contributes to their population growth and features.

→ It is extremely wasteful, in terms of hunting. 99 per cent of the shark is thrown away, leading to a loss of other products. For people dependent on sharks for food, this practice destroys their diet.

→ Shark fin soup is the main use of the fins. It is a must-have status delicacy, in China and other Asian countries, at weddings and banquets. Here's the joke, the fin itself is tasteless, but it adds a chewy and gelatinous feel to the soup. The actual flavor comes from chicken or other stock.

→ The high mercury content in shark, flesh and fin, can make it hazardous for human consumption. Pregnant women and children are more susceptible to its effects. So eating these sort of parts can be harmful to one's health in the long run.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/what-is-shark-finning.html

You can not care about the ecosystem, but eventually you're just going to overhunt them until they go extinct, then what are you going to eat? Regardless, the removal of a top predator from an ecosystem can have catastrophic effects on the biodiversity.

Here read this article if you don't think sharks are endangered by this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34225165/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.TqXkON6Ao8k

 

[ProfessorMoran]

From a much smaller number of sharks? You can get several steaks from a single shark. You can get one fin.

Fins are much more expensive than steaks due to the "tradition" of Chinese Wedding soup, which makes it a much more lucrative market. Fishermen in China have the option of: taking whole sharks and using a large amount of storage space for a small profit or finning the shark and throwing the still living body in the water to die and packing hundreds of fins in their hold for a huge profit.

You take the shark out of the water, it's going to die no matter what. Would it be more humane to cut the head off and then dump the body and the head back into the water?

It's not specifically a wedding soup, it's basically a banquet soup.

Unfortunately, that is not frequently true. It is more lucrative for them to just harvest the fins as they're easier to smuggle than whole sharks.

You can not care about the ecosystem, but eventually you're just going to overhunt them until they go extinct, then what are you going to eat? Regardless, the removal of a top predator from an ecosystem can have catastrophic effects on the biodiversity.

The ban is now, extinction isn't a certainty and it's not going to be for a while as there are many species of sharks.

 

[Roto13]

You take the shark out of the water, it's going to die no matter what. Would it be more humane to cut the head off and then dump the body and the head back into the water?

It's not specifically a wedding soup, it's basically a banquet soup.

Holy shit, way to completely miss the point.

 

[lunarworks]

Holy shit, way to completely miss the point.

ProfessorMoran
Member
(Today, 06:24 PM)
Reply | Quote

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Holy shit, way to completely miss the point.

Why store the bodies when you can return it to nature for recycling? What are you going to do? Bury them?

They can obviously sell the meat too, and they should, maybe governments should require the whole shark to be used, that would be more of a policing problem.

 

[Divvy]

You take the shark out of the water, it's going to die no matter what. Would it be more humane to cut the head off and then dump the body and the head back into the water?

It's not specifically a wedding soup, it's basically a banquet soup.



The ban is now, extinction isn't a certainty and it's not going to be for a while as there are many species of sharks.

http://notexactlyrocketscience.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/shark-hunting-harms-animals-at-bottom-of-the-food-chain/

In these waters, several shark species have all but vanished since 1972, including 99% of the bull, dusky and smooth hammerhead populations.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

http://notexactlyrocketscience.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/shark-hunting-harms-animals-at-bottom-of-the-food-chain/

So we should hunt the cownose ray, bring it back to balance.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

no ... just ... no

My asshole is puckering up just from looking at this pic.

 

[Roto13]

Why store the bodies when you can return it to nature for recycling? What are you going to do? Bury them?

They can obviously sell the meat too, and they should, maybe governments should require the whole shark to be used, that would be more of a policing problem.

Amazing. A boatful of fins kills a lot more sharks than a boatful of sharks. It's not about returning their souls to Ewah or whatever the hell weird idea is rattling around in your head.

So we should hunt the cownose ray, bring it back to balance.

I can't tell if you're trolling or just really dumb.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Amazing. A boatful of fins kills a lot more sharks than a boatful of sharks. It's not about returning their souls to Ewah or whatever the hell weird idea is rattling around in your head.


I can't tell if you're trolling or just really dumb.

What does this have to do with a wampus cat?

Basically mostly only chinese people eat shark fin soup and you're telling chinese people in Toronto to give a shit about biodiversity and not eat shark fin soup which they like and give a shit about, unlike biodiversity which probably isn't a great concern to the majority of chinese community in Toronto, and it's not going to make a difference because you're not banning it in China, depriving chinese torontonians the chance to enjoy a nice bowl or many nice bowls of delicious shark fin soup is not going to make a dent in the problem.

 

[EvilMario]

Congratulations, your Toronto-Age has evolved into Shark-Fin age.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Can we talk about the whole privatization of garbage collection yet? I wonder why no one has brought up the York Region transit strike as an argument that privitization != no strikes...

 

[Divvy]

What does this have to do with a wampus cat?

Basically mostly only chinese people eat shark fin soup and you're telling chinese people in Toronto to give a shit about biodiversity and not eat shark fin soup which they like and give a shit about, unlike biodiversity which probably isn't a great concern to the majority of chinese community in Toronto, and it's not going to make a difference because you're not banning it in China, depriving chinese torontonians the chance to enjoy a nice bowl or many nice bowls of delicious shark fin soup is not going to make a dent in the problem.

Well shit, we should just ignore all problems in the world as long as they make us feel better! And hey, as long as China is doing it, it's okay! Free human rights violations for all!

Besides, they can just eat their swallow's nest soup instead.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Well shit, we should just ignore all problems in the world as long as they make us feel better! And hey, as long as China is doing it, it's okay! Free human rights violations for all!


Besides, they can just eat their swallow's nest soup instead.

You're not solving the problem at all by banning shark fin in Toronto, so why even do it? All you do is piss people off, it just means sharks will continue to be hunted for their fins and other chinese people get to eat the fins.

Sharks being overhunted is not equivalent to human rights being violated.

Why can't we have shark fin soup AND swallow's puke soup? They're both awesome.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Loved this editorial about Toronto's ridiculous traffic problems.

http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2011/10/24/protecting-car-use-a-road-to-nowhere/

"In a city built almost entirely based on the assumption that roads can make everything accessible, the end result is that nothing is accessible."

 

[Divvy]

You're not solving the problem at all by banning shark fin in Toronto, so why even do it? All you do is piss people off, it just means sharks will continue to be hunted for their fins and other chinese people get to eat the fins.

Sharks being overhunted is not equivalent to human rights being violated.

Well all movements have to have a beginning. The motivation is that this will spark other regions to ban them as well. I guess ultimately it's goal is to put enough public pressure so that countries will actually actively enforce the ban. Right now we have illegal fishing boats all over the place unrestricted.

Why can't we have shark fin soup AND swallow's puke soup? They're both awesome.

Because shark fin hunting is just not sustainable? If you keep hunting at the current rate, they'll be gone. Forever. No more shark fin soup one way or another, but also massive damage to the world's oceans.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Congratulations, your Toronto-Age has evolved into Shark-Fin age.

who posted the goddamn article?!

 

[crazy monkey]

it is okey some times we can discuss some other things can't we?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Well all movements have to have a beginning. The motivation is that this will spark other regions to ban them as well. I guess ultimately it's goal is to put enough public pressure so that countries will actually actively enforce the ban. Right now we have illegal fishing boats all over the place unrestricted.



Because shark fin hunting is just not sustainable? If you keep hunting at the current rate, they'll be gone. Forever. No more shark fin soup one way or another, but also massive damage to the world's oceans.

The country in question is China and they don't fucking care if sharks go extinct as long as they can have their soup now, pandas would have been completely extinct had China not figured out they could rent them out for millions a year to sucka zoos all over the world and somehow manage to retain ownership of all the offsprings that other countries manage to breed.

A lot of things are not sustainable, the human race is not sustainable, we're going to suck the planet dry eventually regardless, it's nice to believe we can do something about it but with so many countries under different juridictions, the shark fin ban is nothing but an inconvenience that manages to accomplish absolutely nothing.

it is okey some times we can discuss some other things can't we?

What about those rising real estate prices in Toronto? You can even get a decent semi in Toronto for less than $500k in a good area.

 

[lunarworks]

The country in question is China and they don't fucking care if sharks go extinct as long as they can have their soup now, pandas would have been completely extinct had China not figured out they could rent them out for millions a year to sucka zoos all over the world and somehow manage to retain ownership of all the offsprings that other countries manage to breed.

A lot of things are not sustainable, the human race is not sustainable, we're going to suck the planet dry eventually regardless, it's nice to believe we can do something about it but with so many countries under different juridictions, the shark fin ban is nothing but an inconvenience that manages to accomplish absolutely nothing.

This whole thing is along the lines of "My neighbour's car spews thick black smoke and he doesn't care, so why should I bother fixing mine?"

 

[ProfessorMoran]

This whole thing is along the lines of "My neighbour's car spews thick black smoke and he doesn't care, so why should I bother fixing mine?"

You can't put out a fire when the fire is on another continent.

 

[daemonic]

The country in question is China and they don't fucking care if sharks go extinct as long as they can have their soup now, pandas would have been completely extinct had China not figured out they could rent them out for millions a year to sucka zoos all over the world and somehow manage to retain ownership of all the offsprings that other countries manage to breed.

A lot of things are not sustainable, the human race is not sustainable, we're going to suck the planet dry eventually regardless, it's nice to believe we can do something about it but with so many countries under different juridictions, the shark fin ban is nothing but an inconvenience that manages to accomplish absolutely nothing.



What about those rising real estate prices in Toronto? You can even get a decent semi in Toronto for less than $500k in a good area.

So just because nothing is sustainable it's pointless to try preserving what we have since inevitably it'll be gone at some point? It's not a matter of being nice to believe we can do something. The point is, something can be done if people pull their heads out of the sand and think about the repurcussions of overcomsumption. Changes have been made, species have been reintroduced, and ecosystems have been balanced out. It's not impossible. If everyone thought like you we'd have absolutely nothing left.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

So just because nothing is sustainable it's pointless to try preserving what we have since inevitably it'll be gone at some point? It's not a matter of being nice to believe we can do something. The point is, something can be done if people pull their heads out of the sand and think about the repurcussions of overcomsumption. Changes have been made, species have been reintroduced, and ecosystems have been balanced out. It's not impossible. If everyone thought like you we'd have absolutely nothing left.

People who are actually doing the hunting and most of the consumption don't give a shit, you might as well be breeding sharks, releasing them into the ocean and have chinese fishermen fish the crap out of them, they will thank you... wait, no they won't.

 

[dudeworld]

sharks contain a lot of mercury due to biomagnification. I wouldn't eat shark for that reason alone.

 

[Kinitari]

You can't put out a fire when the fire is on another continent.

But why start one on yours too? Why contribute to the problem? Shark Fin is tasteless, and it can easily be replaced with imitation shark fin. What's the difference?

 

[AlphaTwo00]

it can easily be replaced with imitation shark fin.

There's a reason why places don't do it, people can tell it's not the same. Restaurants who try to pass it off as such (and there are places that do that) usually get ratted out fairly quickly.

Personally, my understanding of the topic, and the typical chinese (through the phone-in radio talkshows) argument that has failed to carry through to the english side of the news is that people feel that this "ban" is an attack on the chinese culture than an actual environmental agenda. While people claim that it is an environmental issue, the ban is just a ban, as it does no more in saying that "the city of Toronto will push this as an agenda forward to make it a bigger issue to other places". They feel that this ban is in no way targeted at the issue that's presented.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

But why start one on yours too? Why contribute to the problem? Shark Fin is tasteless, and it can easily be replaced with imitation shark fin. What's the difference?

Because shark fin soup is goddamn delicious.

Shark fin is not tasteless and its texture cannot be easily replicated with imitation shark fin, just like a veggie burger doesn't taste like a real burger.

A lot of Chinese banquets in Toronto are actually substituting shark fin soup with an abalone dish, we're probably going to eat them into extinction too.

 

[Kinitari]

There's a reason why places don't do it, people can tell it's not the same. Restaurants who try to pass it off as such (and there are places that do that) usually get ratted out fairly quickly.

Personally, my understanding of the topic, and the typical chinese (through the phone-in radio talkshows) argument that has failed to carry through to the english side of the news is that people feel that this "ban" is an attack on the chinese culture than an actual environmental agenda. While people claim that it is an environmental issue, the ban is just a ban, as it does no more in saying that "the city of Toronto will push this as an agenda forward to make it a bigger issue to other places". They feel that this ban is in no way targeted at the issue that's presented.

It's not attacking Chinese culture as a whole, it's attacking one facet of Chinese culture. If any other culture did anything similar, it would be the same. Because something is part of someone's culture, doesn't make it immune to scrutiny. It's not like Toronto is saying "Fuck dem chinamen! Lets mess with something that is dear to them!". No, people find the practice abhorrent.

Because shark fin soup is goddamn delicious.

Shark fin is not tasteless and its texture cannot be easily replicated with imitation shark fin, just like a veggie burger doesn't taste like a real burger.

A lot of Chinese banquets in Toronto are actually substituting shark fin soup with an abalone dish, we're probably going to eat them into extinction too.

Every source I've read says the fin is tasteless. What you're tasting is the broth. It's just a silly tradition, one that is contributing the the extinction of many species of shark.

The only thing that is special about it is it's texture, and a particular texture isn't worth all the trouble that comes with it.

If any other practices crop up that is similar to finning, I'd support a ban on that too. Like whaling, it's abhorrent.

 

[Divvy]

Chinesepeoplestopembarrassingme.gif

 

[AlphaTwo00]

It's not attacking Chinese culture as a whole, it's attacking one facet of Chinese culture. If any other culture did anything similar, it would be the same. Because something is part of someone's culture, doesn't make it immune to scrutiny. It's not like Toronto is saying "Fuck dem chinamen! Lets mess with something that is dear to them!". No, people find the practice abhorrent.

Again, as I pointed out: people feel that this ban doesn't actually do anything when it comes to "hey, let's make this a city agenda that we can pull other places to do the same", rather just "hey, we're going to stop ourselves and hope everything gets better".

I think if you were to ask people individually on their thoughts on how the gather the shark fins, they would agree that it is a problem. But this issue isn't just here, and basically saying "we're not going to do it anymore" isn't an actual solution to the real problem.

Edit: And this is why I didn't want to bother posting. I can't be fair and balanced, and tell people to look at the bigger picture without dragging all the shit that comes with any argument. I'm going to eject myself from this whole shark fin thing.

 

[Kinitari]

Again, as I pointed out: people feel that this ban doesn't actually do anything when it comes to "hey, let's make this a city agenda that we can pull other places to do the same", rather just "hey, we're going to stop ourselves and hope everything gets better".

I think if you were to ask people individually on their thoughts on how the gather the shark fins, they would agree that it is a problem. But this issue isn't just here, and basically saying "we're not going to do it anymore" isn't an actual solution to the real problem.

Edit: And this is why I didn't want to bother posting. I can't be fair and balanced, and tell people to look at the bigger picture without dragging all the shit that comes with any argument. I'm going to eject myself from this whole shark fin thing.

You don't have to go all in or nothing, maybe Toronto banning it wont change anything world wide, but it prevents this practice from touching the city - which is the main goal of the ban. They don't want to be associated with it, they want to be disassociated with it even.

 

[Prax]

I support the ban.
Sharkfin soup is pretty bland to me anyway, and shark fin has no flavour to it.

I would rather Toronto not be associated with unsustainable practices such as shark hunting for nothing but fins. I also support bans for all sorts of endangered animals parts.

 

[Fuzzy]

Can we talk about the whole privatization of garbage collection yet? I wonder why no one has brought up the York Region transit strike as an argument that privitization != no strikes...

It's so sad. The city will "save" $78 million over 7 years which we all know is bullshit if they go with the bid they're favouring. This is going to cost the city the same amount of money (in a best case scenario) or more. All this will end up doing is reducing the money going to workers and bring all of our standards of living down.

 

[ussjme]

i wanna start reading about new and politics in the realm of toronto while at work, besides this thread, which new sites/blogs are most informative? where do you guys get most of your info?

 

[BladeWorker]

Can we talk about the whole privatization of garbage collection yet? I wonder why no one has brought up the York Region transit strike as an argument that privitization != no strikes...

Many municipalities in Canada have privatized their garbage collection without issue.

Transit makes an interesting case study, but it's a different set of issues.

 

[EvilMario]

i wanna start reading about new and politics in the realm of toronto while at work, besides this thread, which new sites/blogs are most informative? where do you guys get most of your info?

I'd refer to the News & Politics section of the OP.

I read BlogTO for brief morning news (and snarky comments), the major papers (The Star, Metro, G&M, NP, even The Sun), CBC, Torontoist, Spacing Toronto, and Urban Toronto forums.

 

[cbox]

Rob ford is coming to my work tomorrow AM, uh oh...