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Total War: Warhammer |OT| WAAAGHcraft 4
- Thread starter PeskyToaster
- Start date
LurkerPrime
Member
Edit: Oh wow, as Vamps I just utterly crushed Archaeon and his pals right in the first habitable VC province in the North there. For some reason they were all shedding units (not corruption damage, but just losing whole units) and they couldn't take my full army + provincal capital garrison. And in a single fight, no more Chaos. Was not expecting it to go nearly that easily.
Yeah, I'm kinda conflicted on their ultimate role. The Empire makes a good case for having a bunch of them but never really gets the economy to field that many, due to all of the armies they'll need to fight off Chaos while holding their land. The Greenskins' heroes were garbage and I don't know why I bothered with them at all, aside from quest requirements. Haven't used the Dwarves or Chaos yet, but the Vamps heroes are... OK, like a half-step of what the Empire has.
As fighters they seem thoroughly decent, able to get their own niche as they level up. Their stats will never rival a lord AFAIK though, and due to how specialisation works they'll only ever be good at either combat or field jobs (assassination, etc). Their field work is handy sometimes, but the cost of it all and huge chance for failure just makes it feel like busywork, aside from when Chaos arrives.
Like, they have a lot of abilities to specialise in, say, deploying for your benefit or siegebusting, but by the time you have those kinds of heroes you'll never actually need them for that role due to either an overwhelming military or strong economic core. And of course, every non-assassin hero you field is just giving the enemy more space to assassinate your guys, or, more generally, fail at their task and just kinda do nothing until their faction is destroyed.
I'm playing on Normal though so maybe it changes a lot on the higher difficulties. But right now they just seem trapped in a myriad of roles that they never really fulfill adequately.
Yeah, I'm kinda conflicted on their ultimate role. The Empire makes a good case for having a bunch of them but never really gets the economy to field that many, due to all of the armies they'll need to fight off Chaos while holding their land. The Greenskins' heroes were garbage and I don't know why I bothered with them at all, aside from quest requirements. Haven't used the Dwarves or Chaos yet, but the Vamps heroes are... OK, like a half-step of what the Empire has.
As fighters they seem thoroughly decent, able to get their own niche as they level up. Their stats will never rival a lord AFAIK though, and due to how specialisation works they'll only ever be good at either combat or field jobs (assassination, etc). Their field work is handy sometimes, but the cost of it all and huge chance for failure just makes it feel like busywork, aside from when Chaos arrives.
Like, they have a lot of abilities to specialise in, say, deploying for your benefit or siegebusting, but by the time you have those kinds of heroes you'll never actually need them for that role due to either an overwhelming military or strong economic core. And of course, every non-assassin hero you field is just giving the enemy more space to assassinate your guys, or, more generally, fail at their task and just kinda do nothing until their faction is destroyed.
I'm playing on Normal though so maybe it changes a lot on the higher difficulties. But right now they just seem trapped in a myriad of roles that they never really fulfill adequately.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
What is everyone's favorite and least favorite unit in the game?
My favorite has to be the Demigryph Knights and my least favorite is the Black Coach.
My favorite has to be the Demigryph Knights and my least favorite is the Black Coach.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
I'm having a hell of a time playing as Chaos. First stab at a Chaos campaign didn't last too long as my little foray down into Kislev led me into a big game of tag, as 3 Kislev full stack armies cornered my one horde and wiped me out.
My current attempt at Chaos is going better as I've pacified all the Norsca factions and have made little excursions into Kislev and some of the other northern cities but I've only got 2 hordes and I feel like I'm getting hammered anytime I have to put a city under siege. I've got some Hellcannons in my main horde but they just don't seem that powerful. Or, I guess I've gotten too used to playing as the Empire and having my armies loaded up with tons of artillery.
What's a good strategy for Chaos? I love using the Chaos warhounds for flanking but for siege battles they're not real useful. And its hard to have more than 1 horde roaming around nearby as a support army otherwise they start suffering attrition.
My current attempt at Chaos is going better as I've pacified all the Norsca factions and have made little excursions into Kislev and some of the other northern cities but I've only got 2 hordes and I feel like I'm getting hammered anytime I have to put a city under siege. I've got some Hellcannons in my main horde but they just don't seem that powerful. Or, I guess I've gotten too used to playing as the Empire and having my armies loaded up with tons of artillery.
What's a good strategy for Chaos? I love using the Chaos warhounds for flanking but for siege battles they're not real useful. And its hard to have more than 1 horde roaming around nearby as a support army otherwise they start suffering attrition.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Get Chaos Knight and Chaos Monsters as fast as you can, grind a lot with your agents and try and get some allies in the north and use them as the first wave when you make your way south.
LurkerPrime
Member
Don't ever let the Skullsmasherz (Western Savage Orcs) take root somewhere. They will soon become an annoying, mosquito-like faction that's difficult to root out, inevitably attacking you when you can least afford it.
Also, if you need to destroy the Dwarves as VC, don't let them gain Greenskin territory. Because then things get... tricky.
It was all going so well, too...
Also, if you need to destroy the Dwarves as VC, don't let them gain Greenskin territory. Because then things get... tricky.
It was all going so well, too...
Are there any restrictions on what units the AI can use? I'm playing the Dwarf campaign on normal difficulty and have already destroyed the entire Greenskins faction, but I've never seen the enemy use Giants or Arachnarok Spiders outside of 1 or 2 quest battles. Makes my Slayers and Irondrakes sad...
Restrictions, no, but they do favor certain kinds of army compositions based on their economy levels. I've seen Chaos armies of nothing but Giants and Hell Cannons, though that was before the patch that changed the favored compositions in some way. I admit that I didn't see that many of either in my Normal Dwarf campaign either, so they don't use them very often, at least on Normal. I suppose it is affected by the fact that the Savage Orc faction seems to almost invariably swell to a power rivaling or even surpassing the Greenskins main faction, so their economy is often somewhat limited, and I've never seen the savages use either. Going halfsies on the badlands does not really make for a strong powerbase for expensive units.
Finished a Hard Empire campaign around turn 130. It was really bizarre.
I started off by staying in Reikland and building it up without starting any fights. Did diplomacy everywhere possible. Had to chase off a few roaming savage orc tribes. Went blue skills on Karl, for recruitment discounts, lightning strike, reduced army upkeep, and increased resupply. I ended up doing this for every army but Balthasar.
Eventually, Parravon decides to attack me, so I march South and smash their heads in. I end up with half of two provinces, which annoys me, so I declare war on some additional bretonnian factions to control two full provinces, then make peace again.
At this point, I have a quest to fight 5 greenskin armies, but everything near me is dead, so I send Karl east and start a war with the main Greenskin force. I just sack their minor settlements as I head North again, planning to eventually attack the Vampire Counts from the south. I've also recruited Balthasar and a third General at this point, who have recruited full stacks.
Instead of attacking the VCs, I have Karl work his way through his quest chains. I'm still at war with the Greenskins, but they're not near me, so I ignore them. I have two armies sitting around doing nothing, so I decide to attack the Norsca tribes. Balthasar attacks the southern line of coastal cities while my other general attacks West and than North. This is a slow process due to attrition, and these two armies end up doing nothing else for the remainder of the game. Every turn is just a half move to encamp and regen some of their losses from the previous city. While it's a slow process, there are a few big benefits. One, I get like 4k every other turn from sacking their settlements. Two, attacking Norsca tribes seems to give positive influence with basically every faction, so now everybody is trading with me and forming alliances despite me only controlling 3 provinces. Three, it means that the Norsca never get anywhere near most of the Empire provinces, so they're able to build bigger and better armies than normal.
I realize around turn 90 that via military alliance, the only provinces I lack for victory conditions are the VC ones, and Averland, who are the sole hold outs. I send Karl and a 4th general to deal with the vampire counts, and with a TON of war coordination, I wipe them out in a few turns. I then follow up with Averland, who also falls after a few turns.
Around this time, I suffer my only real losses of the campaign, when a Chaos army snuck through the middle of the continent to attack Reikland. I quickly called up a 5th general and army, but ended up just chasing him around after he razed two of my minor settlements. He eventually died to some nearby Dwarven allies.
Then the main chaos forces spawned around turn 100-110... just in time to run into my 5 armies and another half dozen allied armies in the Kislev area. With Lightning Strike, Karl single-handedly dismantled 2 of their armies and sent a third running back near the Bearsonling camp. Meanwhile, a Witchhunter found Kholek with no army and assassinated him. Unfortunately, it still took me another 10-15 turns just to chase down their remaining army, at which point I won.
I ended up in direct control of 5 Provinces, but allied with everyone but the southern human settlements, and Greenskins. The main Dwarf faction had a rough game and only controlled the Silver Road. Pretty much every minor Dwarf faction was still alive at the end of the game.
I started off by staying in Reikland and building it up without starting any fights. Did diplomacy everywhere possible. Had to chase off a few roaming savage orc tribes. Went blue skills on Karl, for recruitment discounts, lightning strike, reduced army upkeep, and increased resupply. I ended up doing this for every army but Balthasar.
Eventually, Parravon decides to attack me, so I march South and smash their heads in. I end up with half of two provinces, which annoys me, so I declare war on some additional bretonnian factions to control two full provinces, then make peace again.
At this point, I have a quest to fight 5 greenskin armies, but everything near me is dead, so I send Karl east and start a war with the main Greenskin force. I just sack their minor settlements as I head North again, planning to eventually attack the Vampire Counts from the south. I've also recruited Balthasar and a third General at this point, who have recruited full stacks.
Instead of attacking the VCs, I have Karl work his way through his quest chains. I'm still at war with the Greenskins, but they're not near me, so I ignore them. I have two armies sitting around doing nothing, so I decide to attack the Norsca tribes. Balthasar attacks the southern line of coastal cities while my other general attacks West and than North. This is a slow process due to attrition, and these two armies end up doing nothing else for the remainder of the game. Every turn is just a half move to encamp and regen some of their losses from the previous city. While it's a slow process, there are a few big benefits. One, I get like 4k every other turn from sacking their settlements. Two, attacking Norsca tribes seems to give positive influence with basically every faction, so now everybody is trading with me and forming alliances despite me only controlling 3 provinces. Three, it means that the Norsca never get anywhere near most of the Empire provinces, so they're able to build bigger and better armies than normal.
I realize around turn 90 that via military alliance, the only provinces I lack for victory conditions are the VC ones, and Averland, who are the sole hold outs. I send Karl and a 4th general to deal with the vampire counts, and with a TON of war coordination, I wipe them out in a few turns. I then follow up with Averland, who also falls after a few turns.
Around this time, I suffer my only real losses of the campaign, when a Chaos army snuck through the middle of the continent to attack Reikland. I quickly called up a 5th general and army, but ended up just chasing him around after he razed two of my minor settlements. He eventually died to some nearby Dwarven allies.
Then the main chaos forces spawned around turn 100-110... just in time to run into my 5 armies and another half dozen allied armies in the Kislev area. With Lightning Strike, Karl single-handedly dismantled 2 of their armies and sent a third running back near the Bearsonling camp. Meanwhile, a Witchhunter found Kholek with no army and assassinated him. Unfortunately, it still took me another 10-15 turns just to chase down their remaining army, at which point I won.
I ended up in direct control of 5 Provinces, but allied with everyone but the southern human settlements, and Greenskins. The main Dwarf faction had a rough game and only controlled the Silver Road. Pretty much every minor Dwarf faction was still alive at the end of the game.
johancruijff
Banned
there are mods that improve army composition for IA controlled factions
johancruijff
Banned
Slackbladder
Member
Hmmm. Almost certainly content that could have been included in the main game, held back for DLC release. Nothing new there. 10% off at the moment so £12.59. A bit pricey. £9.99 would've been more reasonable. Probably wait on this for a sale.
PeskyToaster
Member
Looks interesting. I'd like to try them out. I need to finish my VC campaign though, the Empire is on its last legs, Chaos is destroyed, the Dwarves were wiped out by Orcs and I've been pouring corruption into their regions bordering me. They have massive undead rebellions to deal with.
Stevey
Member
Sweet, bought.
Chaos is easy. Just hold out until demon ogre shaggoth and roll around with 15 of them in your stack and you are pretty much invincible. No single stack can beat you. If you add a flying basilisk hero to disrupt artillery then you can take on double stacks with ease.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Sounds great to me. It's a race in the grand campaign and a story campaign.
johancruijff
Banned
just doing some math considering the leaked roadmap legit
15 (discounted) for each race/caimpagn/story
so
15 x 6 (Beastman,Wood Elves,Tomb Kings,Skaven,Chaos Dwarfs,Ogre Kingdoms)
+
2 x expansion pack (30? 40? x 2)
and i'll probably buy all of them
Yooooooooooooo.
Is all that leaked DLC legit? That's a lot of campaigns and then expansions on top of that? What else is there in WH lore to fillout an expansion? I mean Chaos Dwarves and Skaven are already kinda deep pulls. They'd have to go somewhere else at this point.
Maybe do a bunch of other human kingdoms for an expansion? Lizardmen? I am wracking my brain for more fantasy lore they could use here.
johancruijff
Banned
i don't know jackshit about WH lore but if you look at the post with the leak on the previous page it makes sense
races Dlc are alternated with cosmetic,lords, units, magic ones
dlc 1 Chaos
dlc 2 Blood and gore
dlc 3 Beastman
dlc 4 ?
dlc 5 Wood Elves
and so on
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Let's face it, we all are.
LurkerPrime
Member
I wants it. I wants it bad.
The vanguard deployment/ambush/hiding aspect of Beastmen is really cool. They're going to be the ultimate thorn in the side of every faction.
UK leaves, Beastmen join instead? XD
ISee
Member
So every race will cost me 16? That's more than I'm willing to spend on pre ordering a DLC without any kind of information about the units, new items and mechanics.
And if I want to buy all race dlcs I need to put down around 100 in total? I'm sorry. I'll wait for steam sale discounts.
And if I want to buy all race dlcs I need to put down around 100 in total? I'm sorry. I'll wait for steam sale discounts.
If you go to the Steam Page it actually shows you every single unit the Beastmen are getting.
johancruijff
Banned
i was just guessin, don't take my word for it
I'm in the same position as you, seems a little to much for me.
Although I have to be happy that even if I don't purchase the content, they have stated that I will be able to encounter the new units in the campaign map to fight against them, which is awesome. Having more varied engagements is always good to me, even if I can't play as them.
I'll wait for a sale on the DLCs unless it turns out the mini campaigns are really good and have a lot of unique battle scenarios.
PeskyToaster
Member
These new races are going to be so damn cool. Can't wait. My biggest roadblock in my chaos game was the infighting but the beastmen won't have that problem. Gonna be fun.
johancruijff
Banned
this should be the strategic overview of the map for the mini campaign
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
That seems like a good size for a story campaign.
Really looking forward to the Beastmen coming out! I love that ambushes are their default movement, that's gonna be devious 
I am currently trying to win a chaos campaign, but man, it's not as easy as I thought!
I just can't properly have more than 1 fully decked out army cause otherwise I have no income.
I feel I shouldn't have razed so many settlements. i kinda cut off my own food supply. Should have just bounced between them,sacking them over and over.
I am currently trying to win a chaos campaign, but man, it's not as easy as I thought!
I just can't properly have more than 1 fully decked out army cause otherwise I have no income.
I feel I shouldn't have razed so many settlements. i kinda cut off my own food supply. Should have just bounced between them,sacking them over and over.
Pyros_Eien
Member
I agree it's expensive, but you know exactly what you're getting. The steam page has all the units, and they'll be streaming the campaign with the new race and giving early copies to youtubers/streamers again like they did for launch, so you'll be able to tell exactly what you're buying and if you feel it's worth buying.
Personally, I'm not buying the Beastmen DLC, while expensive, it looks like it'd be worth it for the most part, but I have no interest in the race so I might as well just wait. Had it been Skaven or Wood Elves(or the other elves, lizardmen or tomb kings), I would have bought it though.
Hmm the list has some glaring ommissions, specifically, Elves. There's Wood elves sure, but it's missing High Elves, Dark Elves, and Lizardmen(basically the stuff west of the current world). 2nd expansion is supposedly Chaos focused, with Daemons being the central point, with all 4 gods of chaos having their own armies and stuff.
Me too, put those monsters (and peasants) to the sword!
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
If you are playing Dwarves, get as many trading depots as possible.
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
just saw the beastmen dlc up on steam seems like a fair price for a new army i am hyped
LurkerPrime
Member
I half-wonder if the free faction will be Wood Elves, but Bretonnia makes too much sense.
The only thing is, I don't know much about them so I'm unsure what they can do with Bretonnia to make them different from the Empire, aside from their units.
It bogs you down a bit, but sacking and then razing it the next turn is the best apporach. Especially with the sacking techs, you will earn a great deal of income through it, enough to sustain you for several turns--even with three or four armies fielded.
The thing that killed me for so long was not realising that the Norsca have to be united (as in, vassalised) with you for Chaos to succeed. They will crush the Northern provinces on their own and be a constant thorn in the side of everyone, especially since it's next to impossible for the AI to actually take any of their cities, beyond those coastal ones. Then it is a simple matter of protecting your new hordes until they can actually do something and rolling over any dangerous armies with your main force, keeping the nearest threats in a state of helplessness.
There was never actually a Shield of Civilization event in my Chaos game, I dunno if I missed it or what. But it made everyone rather easy to destroy, due to all of their petty wars constantly distracting them, on top of the Norsca and Chaos threats. Equally irrelevant was chaos corruption--it was either out of control (in areas I was already primed to conquer) or a complete non-issue; although I guess if AI didn't build against it, it would ravage them worse than my armies ever could.
Really curious to see how chaos-infested Beastmen alter the meta.
The only thing is, I don't know much about them so I'm unsure what they can do with Bretonnia to make them different from the Empire, aside from their units.
Really looking forward to the Beastmen coming out! I love that ambushes are their default movement, that's gonna be devious
I am currently trying to win a chaos campaign, but man, it's not as easy as I thought!
I just can't properly have more than 1 fully decked out army cause otherwise I have no income.
I feel I shouldn't have razed so many settlements. i kinda cut off my own food supply. Should have just bounced between them,sacking them over and over.
It bogs you down a bit, but sacking and then razing it the next turn is the best apporach. Especially with the sacking techs, you will earn a great deal of income through it, enough to sustain you for several turns--even with three or four armies fielded.
The thing that killed me for so long was not realising that the Norsca have to be united (as in, vassalised) with you for Chaos to succeed. They will crush the Northern provinces on their own and be a constant thorn in the side of everyone, especially since it's next to impossible for the AI to actually take any of their cities, beyond those coastal ones. Then it is a simple matter of protecting your new hordes until they can actually do something and rolling over any dangerous armies with your main force, keeping the nearest threats in a state of helplessness.
There was never actually a Shield of Civilization event in my Chaos game, I dunno if I missed it or what. But it made everyone rather easy to destroy, due to all of their petty wars constantly distracting them, on top of the Norsca and Chaos threats. Equally irrelevant was chaos corruption--it was either out of control (in areas I was already primed to conquer) or a complete non-issue; although I guess if AI didn't build against it, it would ravage them worse than my armies ever could.
Really curious to see how chaos-infested Beastmen alter the meta.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
And a new lore of magic too.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
We got two new videos about the Beastmen.
Grand Campaign:
https://youtu.be/FFW54sq5H8s
Lore of the Wild:
https://youtu.be/_PwEmuliTQE
This one was posted on facebook, but someone brought it to Youtube.
Grand Campaign:
https://youtu.be/FFW54sq5H8s
Lore of the Wild:
https://youtu.be/_PwEmuliTQE
This one was posted on facebook, but someone brought it to Youtube.
PeskyToaster
Member
I'm pumped for the beastmen. I've kind of reached a point where I'm not having fun in my VC campaign anymore. It's because I'm just mopping up the empire right now so it feels like a chore to actually catch them. I basically have an unstoppable army at this point. Well like four of them filled with the best units. I'm ready for something new
The moment you reach the point where your victory is assured and you are just going through the motions,I advise you to just stop and play a different campaign.
It's what I do and it's way more fun to do what you want,than to do what the game deems "winning"
LurkerPrime
Member
Ultimate Campaign Victory! Now I'm 100% sold.
I hope they patch UCVs into the Grand Campaign.