NewGamePlus
Member
You guys do realize that she's probably a lesbian, right? That being said, sooooo hot.idahoblue said:
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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)
- Thread starter lexi
- Start date
NewGamePlus
Member
Hey, I just wanted to make sure. I feel like we were just talking about (yet so long ago at the same time) how guys seem to think everyone is attracted to them. :lol :lol
Alfarif said:
First time I went out dressed, I borrowed clothing from my trans friend. Second time, I had her accompany me to a store, so that while we were in the women's section, it would look like I was there with her and not the other way around. The third time... I said fuck it. Who cares what people looking at me might think, and it's just so much of a hassle to drag somebody along to use as an excuse for why I was browsing women's clothing. I just went out, looked at clothes, picked ones I liked, took them to the men's section, and tried them on. I've got too much to worry about and deal with to make a big ordeal about what people think of my clothes-shopping habits.
Wrath2X said:
I have a trans friend who is... well, she received a set of nice gifts from the hormones, let me just say that. I dream of having what she's got.
Android18a
Member
lexi said:
*hugs*
*sneaks hand round and grabs one of your eggs*
shidoshi said:
I would love to have your attitude, I'm so self obsessed and neurotic when it comes to going out, you seem so self-assured and confident in yourself already. That's already like, all the hard work done. Do you go out often? Was your wife aware of previous outings?
I think we all have a trans friend like this. I have a trans friend in a similar situation, C's from nothing but HRT.
lexi said:
Only three times at this point. We had come to an agreement that if I did anything like that, I wouldn't do it in front of her, and it wouldn't really be discussed between us. It quickly became evident as to why that would be important, because shaving my arms (something pretty obvious to do when you're going out like that in a short-sleeved shirt) became a huge conflict between us. I mean, like, a horrendous fight between us, and her not wanting me to do it for any reason.
And small sign of my being more feminine, especially the shaving part (even my face), causes a day or two of utter dispair between us. For that reason, my trails of going out like that have been few and far-between.
She is, however, now aware that I've gone out a couple of times, and that I own one outfit. My best friend also told her that I've decided on a female name should I transition, something I really, really wish he hadn't done. That was, unsurprisingly, another huge fight between us, and a sign to her that I had made up my mind. (When I told her that it was something I was of course going to think about, because you can't help but think about the "what ifs", which is the truth.)
God that sounds so horribly... restrictive? I don't want to say anything negative about your wife, I understand that it's just an awfully unpleasant situation, and I'm sorry if it causes grief to talk about it.
I really hope you work your way through it, though. I've been a fan of your writings and posts for a long time and at times in this thread you just seem happy.
I really hope you work your way through it, though. I've been a fan of your writings and posts for a long time and at times in this thread you just seem happy.
shidoshi said:
All I want to do is sit your wife down and say "Look, the reason you fell in love with this person is because of who they are and not what is between their legs." Why can't she understand this?
lexi said:
She does. Every single time I see Shidoshi post, I get kind of excited to read it. It's going to be insightful and well written, and full of life.
NewGamePlus
Member
I can almost relate. While still in high school my ex seemed to approve of and even encourage some of my feminine behavior (despite disliking when I was mistaken for a girl). She would sometimes do my hair or paint my nails, and she even claimed to like when I shaved down for swim team (best excuse ever). Then, starting college, I stopped most all of my feminine habits, for a while, when I moved into the dorms. I think I lacked the self-confidence at the time to stand out in a new environment. So, it is during this time that she does a complete 180 on everything. She says she always thought it was a little weird, suddenly really likes my facial hair, and becomes really angry the one time after that, that I shave my legs. Yet, I can't imagine what it's like having that disapproval coming from someone I've made a lifetime commitment to. It must be super tough.shidoshi said:
All right, if you all want to see trans/trans relationships, you need to watch Southern Comfort. Two of the three couples are trans/trans. The other is a trans/GG. It basically follows the last year of Robert Eads life, a born female who transitioned to male in his 40s after having children and being married. His mother and father didn't disown him, persay, but they did not really accept him. He was always, in their eyes, Barber, their daughter. He has ovarian cancer, so the last part of him that was even female is what's killing him. Very, very sad. At one point, I teared up because of what was happening to him.
There's also a part where they talk about SoCo, a convention for TGs, where Robert and his girlfriend, Lola, take part in a transexual intimacy workshop. Very enlightening stuff.
There is, however, one part I think people transitioning should think about: children. It's possibly best to do it before you adopt or have them. Robert's sons knew him as their mother. This is who they grew up with. When they interviewed one of his sons, he had trouble calling Robert anything but his mother and "she." I could completely see how this could be confusing... since he already has a father.
I haven't finished it (another 10 minutes or so to go), but I am at the end of my shift, need to do pay roll for my staff, and need to get out of here. I'll finish it up when I get home but I doubt anything major will happen other than them talking about his death in 1999.
There's also a part where they talk about SoCo, a convention for TGs, where Robert and his girlfriend, Lola, take part in a transexual intimacy workshop. Very enlightening stuff.
There is, however, one part I think people transitioning should think about: children. It's possibly best to do it before you adopt or have them. Robert's sons knew him as their mother. This is who they grew up with. When they interviewed one of his sons, he had trouble calling Robert anything but his mother and "she." I could completely see how this could be confusing... since he already has a father.
I haven't finished it (another 10 minutes or so to go), but I am at the end of my shift, need to do pay roll for my staff, and need to get out of here. I'll finish it up when I get home but I doubt anything major will happen other than them talking about his death in 1999.
shidoshi said:
I can kind of relate. My Mom has known about me for several years now. And says she's accepted it, but whenever she sees something that reminds her that I am in fact Trans, she tends to wig out. It varies wildly what it takes to get that to happen. Could be as simple as shaving, or something like finding a couple pairs of womens jeans in my closet. It's extremely confusing as far as that Mom/Kid relationship is concerned. I'd chalk it up to the whole "mourning the loss of her son" thing if she'd only known for a few months, but this going on 9 years now. Hence the mega confusion. Though my Mom has never been the most stable parent, but thats a story for another time.
I know it's not exactly the same as what you're going through, which is extremely rough. The fact that you're both sticking together through those clashes says volumes about you're strength as a couple. I hope you can find a way to work things out so you can both be happy without hurting each other. *hugs*
In other news, I'm watching a documentary called "Almost Myself: Reflections on Mending and Transcending Gender". It's quite interesting, follows the story of a person named Judy. Who is an MTF transgendered person who's seeking help in reversing her transition. It's all kinds of interesting. Kind of warping my head too, because it's forcing me to really question my resolve and pick it apart to see if it's truly as strong as I like to believe it is.
Fox the Sly
Member
Alfarif said:
I knew there was something I forgot to ask. I've seen this discussed on other trans forums, but how are you guys' employment situation with regard to your status? Is your place of employment trans-friendly?
Also, are you hiring, Alfarif? lol
Alfarif said:
Oh, come on, that is such a fairy-tale way to look at it. Let's assume his wife is straight, as she married a male. Now her husband wants to be a girl. This makes her now a lesbian.
Do you not see the issue? If my boyfriend decided he wanted to be a chick and cut off his penis, the relationship would be over. I am gay. I like males. Penis. Balls. The male body is what gets my sexual drive running. Of course I'd still support him and be his friend, but I also understand people who would take it very badly and be a bit, um, unsupportive. It's not a black and white issue, and "omg their personality is so great - that's what you married!!!" isn't a fair shot at Shidoshi's wife.
edit: But Shidoshi still deserves to be happy and be herself. I think they need to end things before it gets even messier and more emotional.
idahoblue said:I have had a crush on that girl for years.
Second. DADT. Let me start by saying it is a stupid policy, and I have served in the US army and experienced it firsthand. However... (there is always a 'but') there is a LOT of homophobia in the military. The vast majority of soldiers I served with would have been fine, but a large minority were violently homophobic. So I can see that the politicians may have had the best interests at heart, even if they were mistaken in what they decided to do. Also, a small benefit of DADT is that if you are non-hetero, and want out of the military, just introduce your partner.
I disagree on the DADT. I served active duty four years. There is some homophobia in the military, just like everyday life, but it is not commonplace, at least among my career field and job when I was in . (weather)
Besides, they said the same thing about blacks in 1946, and the AF had a message to those people when they rejected integration. "Get out." The policy worked. This would be MUCH easier to do now with troop drawdowns coming soon and a bad economy.
Besides, that loophole you mentioned is a bit dishonorable in my eyes, and I saw that happen frequently, especially with linguists who took the training but got out for the big bucks.
I'll admit this stuff fascinates me, why I'm reading. Sorry to butt in like this, but I think you're wrong on the DADT, though YMMV- my military experience was a little different then most.
As for the lack of FtM, I wouldn't be surprised, mostly due to the fact acting FtM is more socially acceptable. Also the whole fewer girls on GAF thing too. Also, one thing I do wonder. How many would be trying to transition if it was socially acceptable for males to do things like wear dresses and skirts? (if offensive, I apologize)
Android18a
Member
Aw Shidoshi, that sounds rough =( *gives you a big hug*
Fox the Sly
Member
lexi said:(Alfarif isn't TG btw, Fox
I know. I quoted his post because it was a segway to the question I forgot to ask the TGs here. Sorry for the confusion.
Android18a
Member
Want me to make icons for M2M as well as M2F and F2M?
Yeah, that could easily be due to differing areas, I was 11b: Infantry. Probably attracted the thicker headed individuals! I also agree DADT is a bad policy, I was just pointing out that there can be surprising benefits to it, and that even without it, homophobia in the military will not go away overnight.arstal said:
Edit: Sorry to go a bit off topic!
idahoblue said:
You're right, it won't go away overnight. Neither did racism though, but the issue has been solved in the military about as well as it can be solved.
It can be done. (again, sorry to go OT, but I argue with folks on this plenty, who don't believe that someone can have been in and think gays can serve just fine.)
Android18a
Member
tehAinsley said:
My family is JW too
It's hard, I can't let my guard down for a second. Speaking of which *clears history*Android18a
Member
Optimiss, just wanna say I *lurve* your avatar here =3 Its awesome. Is it based on your real appearance, or just a random character?
lexi said:
It's a situation that makes it tough for any couple to go through, and there are a few specific aspects in my case that can make it really rough at times. She's Japanese, and while Japanese society seems to be more open and accepting (at times) of transgender people as a person, the society is still extremely old-school when it comes to relationships and marriage. One man, one women, the man works, the woman is a mother/housewife, they have kids, that's how life is supposed to go.
That has certainly been a huge source of conflict between us. I came to find out, as quite a surprise to me, that she isn't overly supportive of either gay marriage or gay couple adopting children. I was pretty blown away to find that out. She is in now way the "gay people are sinners" kind of person, she just has that very deep-encoded idea of what a relationship is burned into her brain. But, that also applies to heterosexual couples as well, so it isn't really any sort of anti-gay thing (though I was pretty shocked when she told me that). Even before we started dealing with the whole trans issue, there was tension at times between us because the relationship wasn't exactly how it is "supposed to be."
And, of course, there's huge pressure from her on me to have a child. That, for her, is the most important thing in the world right now, and once the trans issue came up that was far and away the biggest source of tension. Her initial hope, and request, was that we would try having a child soon, because she was sure that becoming a father would "fix" me. I, of course, have absolutely no intention of having a child while this is still being dealt with, because that would do nothing but complicate things. I point blank asked her: if we have a child, and I still feel like I can't live like this, and I wanted to transition, would she stay with me? Her answer was no.
I know it's easy to have her painted in a bad light when telling only one side of the story, and the truth is that I think she's a wonderful, amazing woman, and I pray every day that I can find some way to be happy with myself and stay happily married to her. (When the trans issue doesn't come up between us, we have a great time together.) Every day, though, more and more I'm filled with dread knowing that there is just no real solution to this situation. I can't do what I need to do for myself unless I end things with her, but doing that means I'm losing the person I love more than anything.
Well, appreciated but questionable praise for my posts aside, I've really come to understand how happy I can feel when I get into a position where I'm allowed to be the person I've wanted to be for as long as I can remember.
The 24 hours before my first time (seriously) going out as a female are still burned into my brain. I remember being in the shower at one point, and just standing there, shaking a bit, as I was almost having a panic attack over the entire idea. "What in the hell do you think you're doing," the voice inside my head asked. "You're going to be a guy in a dress, and that's all you'll ever be. You'll go out, and you'll look stupid, and people will see you and think you're a disgusting freak." That's all I could think, and I kept agreeing with that thought. I would just be a guy in a dress. That's it. Why would I want to set myself up for that embarrassment and ridicule?
But, as many times as I wanted to call my friend and cancel, I didn't. When it came time, I went over to her house, I got changed, and then she helped me with my make-up. She left, and there I stood, in her bathroom, wanting to look into the mirror to see what I had gotten myself into, but I was terrified to. I knew I was going to look ridiculous, and the confirmation of that was something I wasn't sure I was ready to deal with.
I took and deep breath, and stepped in front of the mirror... and was shocked. The clothes weren't particularly my style, the make-up wasn't quite how I would have done it, but I had a reaction to seeing myself in the mirror that I wasn't expected, and that I hadn't had in as long as I could remember: I smiled. After a daily life of seeing some stranger looking back at me washing my face, brushing my teeth, or trying to make my hair somewhat manageable, I recognized that person that was there looking back, even though it was a face I had never really seen before. Every bit of fear, nervousness, panic, disgust, embarrassment, all of those things that I had been feeling up until that moment just completely washed away, and I felt like I could finally let that person who had been locked up deep inside me for so long out to experience the real world.
I know that many of us in this thread have had those experiences, those little moments in time where someone or something allows us to finally feel real, and it's just an amazing feeling. I think being in here, talking about who we really are, allowing ourselves to share those things with others - no matter if they are in a similar position or not - that also brings us those moments of joy. That's one of the things I've learned most through all of this: just how utterly liberating and wonderful it feels when you finally get to that point where you stop living your life for others and start finally being true to yourself.
Alfarif said:
It's a situation I can see both sides of. I lied to her, essentially, even if I didn't fully understand that I was lying when I did so. I asked her to be a part of my life, I entered into vows with her as her husband, and now I'm threatening to take that husband away from her. Of course she's going to feel hurt and betrayed, and as Flink also pointed out, I'm now potentially asking her to be a lesbian when she has absolutely no interest in being that.
At the same time... I also see my side as well. We got married because we love each other, and swore to be there for each other no matter what. If she really, truly loves me, shouldn't she be at least willing to try to see if she could love the new me like she loved the old me? Yes, physically, I'd be different, but she fell in love with me because of who I am inside, not what she sees on the outside. Shouldn't love be stronger than that? As well, she fell in love with me knowing that I had at least somewhat of a girly side from the start, so she at some point appreciated that fact while now she freaks out at any sign of my possibly embracing that side more.
Android18a
Member
I haven't had a chance for this to happen yet, never ever been out as Jessica for reals, but I sooo want this =3 That would be the best day of my life.
An amazing event, beautifully told Shidoshi. I hope your wife can look past this and remember why she fell in love with you. You seem pretty awesome to me.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
One of the most true things ive ever read on GAF. Beautifully put.shidoshi said:
I too shared a very similar experience to shidoshi, re: my first time going sorta all out (both literally and figuratively).
I had organized it with a transwoman I had gotten to know, weeks in advance. As the day approached I began readying myself, hair removal, a crash diet, etc. I could not sleep the night before. And when people say this they mean they maybe got an hour or two of sleep, I had NO sleep. My heart was racing and this was the night before, laying in bed, thinking if I was really going to go through with this. I was determined, however, I didn't want to cancel. I had to give myself this opportunity, at the very least, and if it didn't work out then maybe I could just go anti-depressants and be miserable for the rest of my life.
It DID work out. I wasn't perfect, I was carrying a few extra pounds at this point, my hair seemed off, but regardless, my heart skipped a beat or two when I saw myself, and not just my appearance, but how I appeared to be holding myself and moving. I was smiling and I couldn't STOP smiling.
It was this exact moment my mind was absolutely made up. I was going to stop trying to ignore and deny and procrastinate, etc, and actually DO something, now.
This event happened in April last year, and throughout that time, I came out to my family and friends, started seeing a gender specialist in June and in late December, began a proper HRT routine.
I had organized it with a transwoman I had gotten to know, weeks in advance. As the day approached I began readying myself, hair removal, a crash diet, etc. I could not sleep the night before. And when people say this they mean they maybe got an hour or two of sleep, I had NO sleep. My heart was racing and this was the night before, laying in bed, thinking if I was really going to go through with this. I was determined, however, I didn't want to cancel. I had to give myself this opportunity, at the very least, and if it didn't work out then maybe I could just go anti-depressants and be miserable for the rest of my life.
It DID work out. I wasn't perfect, I was carrying a few extra pounds at this point, my hair seemed off, but regardless, my heart skipped a beat or two when I saw myself, and not just my appearance, but how I appeared to be holding myself and moving. I was smiling and I couldn't STOP smiling.
It was this exact moment my mind was absolutely made up. I was going to stop trying to ignore and deny and procrastinate, etc, and actually DO something, now.
This event happened in April last year, and throughout that time, I came out to my family and friends, started seeing a gender specialist in June and in late December, began a proper HRT routine.
gay guy coming in to voice his opinionAlfarif said:
if my bf were to sit me down and tell me he wanted to become a woman, and begin transitioning, i would be taken aback too. I don't think i could continue the relationship physically, which is an important part of any relationship. i love him, but part of that is i also love his body as well.
BUT i do love him and would support him in any decision like this. i would try and be there for him as much as i could. i should NOT be morally required to continue the relationship with him thought because he would no longer be a man to me.
im sorry if this sounds harsh that i wouldn't continue the relationship but its the truth. i do think though that if someone loves you, they should support you and know to let go of their selfish interests. if it will make you happier, they should support you.
Fox the Sly
Member
I agree. I'd opt out of the relationship if my girl wanted to transition, but I'd definitely support her.
NewGamePlus
Member
I'm pretty sure there's no reason for me to talk in this thread cause shidoshi can just say everything, and say it more eloquently. I can definitely relate to the smiling. It's impossible not to smile when dressed up. Impossible.shidoshi said:
That doesn't mean they should.border said:
Any recommended trans-related literature? Preferably books with not-obvious titles so I don't out myself to anyone who sees the cover/spine.
I just took the English TAKS test and we seriously can't do a thing after the TAKS tests except read. ESPECIALLY not cell phones, if they see you with one (on/off, in use or not, doesn't matter.. if you bring one to school that day you have to put them in a paper bag and get it back at the end of the day) it's 5 days of SAC (in-school suspension thing) and your test gets voided. If the phone rings and you have it on you, it's possible for the whole class to get their test voided. Kinda ridiculous :lol
And I have 3 more of these tests to take, all for subjects that I will finish much faster than the English test. Staring at my desk for several hours is reeeeeealllly boring.
I just took the English TAKS test and we seriously can't do a thing after the TAKS tests except read. ESPECIALLY not cell phones, if they see you with one (on/off, in use or not, doesn't matter.. if you bring one to school that day you have to put them in a paper bag and get it back at the end of the day) it's 5 days of SAC (in-school suspension thing) and your test gets voided. If the phone rings and you have it on you, it's possible for the whole class to get their test voided. Kinda ridiculous :lol
And I have 3 more of these tests to take, all for subjects that I will finish much faster than the English test. Staring at my desk for several hours is reeeeeealllly boring.
shidoshi - I really feel for both sides of your situation, I can imagine how much hurt and pain this is causing both of you. It sounds like there isn't any "easy" solution or "quick" fix or even a long term understanding that will be easy to reach. Have you tried marriage counselling? I'm not sure that it would help or not, but at the least it might help you both clearly define your positions and see where each of you think your marriage is going, maybe work out a "road map" to cope with and accommodate each other.
Android18a
Member
Aigis said:
Take some manga. I'd recommend Your & My Secret. The characters pretend they want to switch back to their original genders, but you can tell they love it ;p
I'm not saying it's right, though I think the basic idea holds true -- you can't be with someone you aren't attracted to.NewGamePlus said:
My point was more that job loss/weight gain are kind of petty things compared to a gender change. You can lose weight or get another job, but becoming a woman is probably not something you're going to snap back from.
Android18a said:
Texas + manga + transsexuals is a formula for an assbeating.
I'm not much of a manga-in-public reader. Mostly because I think I'd get lumped in with the people who bring stacks of Naruto/Bleach manga and talk about the shows every day with random Japanese words thrown in at times, occasionally going off subject to talk about Pocky.Android18a said:
And I just realized how silly I sound about trying to avoid being grouped with weeaboos when I have a Persona 3 related avatar/username. All my weeabooisms stay in
and never, ever leave
Thanks for the suggestion though, I might read that at home.
NewGamePlus
Member
Yeah, most books are dead giveaways with their titles/covers. Looking just now, Luna by Julie Ann Peters seems fairly surreptitious. You could try Jeffrey Eugenides' Middlesex, a great book about a person with 5-Alpha-reductase deficiency. It might be passable since it won a Pulitzer but maybe not. Or you could get hardcovers and switch the dustcover with another book, and then hope it doesn't slip and no one wants to look at it.Aigis said:
lexi said:Maybe I should just add you to the list Alfarif.
(Alfarif isn't TG btw, Fox
Oh, the storm is coming.... it is coming. :lol :lol
EDIT: WHAT THE HELL?? :lol :lol YOU ALL THINK YOU'RE FUNNY!
I figured he knew and was just using my exit last night as a jumping off point for his question.
arstal said:
What do you think of DADT in relation to TGs?
shidoshi said:
As always, you put it more eloquently than I could. I apologize to the people who think I was in la-la land with my earlier post on this. I do understand that your wife does not want to be a lesbian (in fact, now that you've said she doesn't approve of gay marriages, this makes far MORE sense than before), but I would hope that she could see the other side. It saddens me that she wants to put this kind of pressure on you (having a child), while you are going through the most difficult thing you could do in life. That will not be good for any child. In fact, watch Southern Comfort, if you must. The son still refers to Robert Eads as his mother and "she," because that is all he will ever be to him. It's a confusing state of affairs and doesn't get any easier if you appear one way to a child and then, sometime later, become something completely different. I don't want to say it's a mindfuck, but it could be. Especially coupled with divorce.
I get the sense, and you can tell me if I'm wrong in this thought, that your wife is almost "hostile" towards this idea. That's what upsets me the most. By hostile, I mean that she seems to want to force things on you that will make you be a "father" or a "man." That isn't good for your marriage nor good for any children you would have. If anything, that is a recipe for disaster.
Perhaps, like others have said, it would be best to end the marriage. But, as others have also said, transitioning is one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life, and she should try to come to some kind of understanding or acceptance. In any case, it seems resentment is what may define the relationship. And that just depresses me.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
NewGamePlus said:Yeah, most books are dead giveaways with their titles/covers. Looking just now, Luna by Julie Ann Peters seems fairly surreptitious. You could try Jeffrey Eugenides' Middlesex, a great book about a person with 5-Alpha-reductase deficiency. It might be passable since it won a Pulitzer but maybe not. Or you could get hardcovers and switch the dustcover with another book, and then hope it doesn't slip and no one wants to look at it.
I find that the best way to get away with reading anything you don't want someone to know you're reading is to put Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" book cover over your hardback. Juuuuuust saying.
Gaborn said:I only have one response to you:
(inside joke for other people)
Oh god, that was the most classic thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I had to tell my cubicle mate what was going on, because he was seriously giving me odd looks throughout the night.
lexi said:By coming out and showing all of us up?
Haha, girl, you wish! I'm just laughing because there is a "?" So I'm watching some movies and might grab a couple books from the library. Can't a man be educated these days?!:lol :lol