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[Exhumed]

That's just the thing though. You admit it is psychological. I don't agree that anyone under any circumstances should have to go through a cosmetic surgery to feel like themselves. It is a mental barrier that can be broken, and in my opinion, should be before resorting to surgery for cosmetic purposes.

emotionally daft, you are.

The brain and the body develop separately. Its not something a person can control, therefor its not fair to say its simply psychological and just a mental barrier. Can you just, for one second, imagine what life would be like if you didn't feel like you completely? I don't know that you could do so.

These people do what they need to do. Simple as that. They don't let people like you bring them down either. You apparently don't have the capacity to understand from under your narrow minded perspective.

 

[Dan Yo]

emotionally daft, you are.

The brain and the body develop separately. Its not something a person can control, therefor its not fair to say its simply psychological and just a mental barrier. Can you just, for one second, imagine what life would be like if you didn't feel like you completely? I don't know that you could do so.

These people do what they need to do. Simple as that. They don't let people like you bring them down either. You apparently don't have the capacity to understand from under your narrow minded perspective.

Wow. I dont know how I'm coming across but I'm really not trying to bring anyone down. I am just firmly against cosmetic surgery. I don't think Jamie or anyone else needs to change their face or any part of their body to be beautiful much less feel beautiful. I'll end the discussion here if it's coming across like I'm being mean.

 

[Instigator]

Hey TransGAF, on the lighter side, what's your opinion of these movies which deal with trangender issues in one form or another:

The Crying Game
Breakfast on Pluto

Spoiler

Ace Ventura: Pet Detective

 

[Brian Griffin]

That's just the thing though. You admit it is psychological. I don't agree that anyone under any circumstances should have to go through a cosmetic surgery to feel like themselves. It is a mental barrier that can be broken, and in my opinion, should be before resorting to surgery for cosmetic purposes.

Soooo, you would rather break their mind than let them have surgery done that we know has helped thousands of transgender people feel correct in their own body? Would you approve of people trying to cure others of "the gay"? It's just psychological, so you must be able to make them not gay right? And again, again, again, it's NOT just cosmetic. It runs so mush deeper than that.

You say you 'don't agree' but it's not a matter to be debated and agreed upon. Some transgender people HAVE to get surgery to feel right in their own body. It's a fact, it's reality. You saying you don't agree that it has to happen is like saying you don't agree that paralyzed people should have to have wheelchairs. You may not intend it but you sound very ignorant and dismissive of what the trans people in this thread have been talking about for 40+ pages.

 

[Exhumed]

Wow. I dont know how I'm coming across but I'm really not trying to bring anyone down. I am just firmly against cosmetic surgery. I don't think Jamie or anyone else needs to change their face or any part of their body to be beautiful much less feel beautiful. I'll end the discussion here if it's coming across like I'm being mean.

Well if you look at what cosmetic surgery is "plastic surgery for improving a person's appearance by restoration of damaged areas of skin, removal of wrinkles or blemishes, etc.", you would notice you are fundamentally wrong on the nature of this type of surgery.

I would classify this as reconstructive surgery, which is very different in nature. Typically cosmetic surgery is for enhancement. This is not the case for transgenders. I feel its more of a congenital abnormality (I believe Jamie at one point mentioned the transgender condition as such, forgive me if I am wrong) and the individual feels it needs correction.

Say I wanted to get surgery on my club foot. Would you call that cosmetic surgery? Or is that reconstructive surgery based on a congenital abnormality? I feel the concept applies here. I see no difference because either way, we were given something we did not ask for....

 

[RiskyChris]

That's just the thing though. You admit it is psychological. I don't agree that anyone under any circumstances should have to go through a cosmetic surgery to feel like themselves. It is a mental barrier that can be broken, and in my opinion, should be before resorting to surgery for cosmetic purposes.

Everything is psychological you big baby, and it can't be cosmetic if it has psychological effects, you mental dwarf.

Jesus, stop posting.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Jesus, stop posting.

Yea he should go watch some porn and chill out

 

[Risette]

Soooo, you would rather break their mind than let them have surgery done that we know has helped thousands of transgender people feel correct in their own body? Would you approve of people trying to cure others of "the gay"? It's just psychological, so you must be able to make them not gay right? And again, again, again, it's NOT just cosmetic. It runs so mush deeper than that.

You say you 'don't agree' but it's not a matter to be debated and agreed upon. Some transgender people HAVE to get surgery to feel right in their own body. It's a fact, it's reality. You saying you don't agree that it has to happen is like saying you don't agree that paralyzed people should have to have wheelchairs. You may not intend it but you sound very ignorant and dismissive of what the trans people in this thread have been talking about for 40+ pages.

Well if you look at what cosmetic surgery is "plastic surgery for improving a person's appearance by restoration of damaged areas of skin, removal of wrinkles or blemishes, etc.", you would notice you are fundamentally wrong on the nature of this type of surgery.

I would classify this as reconstructive surgery, which is very different in nature. Typically cosmetic surgery is for enhancement. This is not the case for transgenders. I feel its more of a congenital abnormality (I believe Jamie at one point mentioned the transgender condition as such, forgive me if I am wrong) that the individual feels needs correction.

Say I wanted to get surgery on my club foot. Would you call that cosmetic surgery? Or is that reconstructive surgery based on a congenital abnormality? I feel the concept applies here. I see no difference because either way, we were given something we did not ask for....

Everything is psychological you big baby, and it can't be cosmetic if it has psychological effects, you mental dwarf.

Jesus, stop posting.

One of these is not like the others.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Yea he should go watch some porn and chill out

I get it.

 

[RiskyChris]

"And yes I have seen examples of the results of genital reconstruction surgery and I have found none of the accounts convincing."

This is completely worthy of being mocked, amongst other things, but I'll let other people do the mocking since I'm not credible. =/

Good luck, cis/trans girls/boys!

 

[Brian Griffin]

I really don't think the goal of this thread is to mock anyone, regardless of how ignorant they are on the subject. I understand your frustration but making fun of people isn't a good way to educate them or change their viewpoint. Although watching you battle it out with that guy in the other thread about the girl in Yemen was awesome. Nice work on that one.

 

[MultiCore]

"And yes I have seen examples of the results of genital reconstruction surgery and I have found none of the accounts convincing."

This is completely worthy of being mocked, amongst other things, but I'll let other people do the mocking since I'm not credible. =/

Good luck, cis/trans girls/boys!

For someone who seems to push extreme amounts of tolerance and understanding, you sure are an intolerant bastard.

Just because someone has a different viewpoint than you, you find them "worthy of being mocked"?

I assure you, you do far more harm than good to any cause you think you're speaking up for with these methods.

 

[lexi]

Risky's heart is in the right place, but he's like, more combative and bitchy then I am.

 

[Dan Yo]

I agree to an extent, but you weren't merely talking about cosmetic surgery. You also brought up gender replacement surgery as well, didn't you?

Yes I did. They are both types of cosmetic surgeries. I have a certain aversion to cosmetic surgery in general although I'll admit to probably coming off a little insensitive to those that feel they need to get them.

I'm not sure if I actually came across like someone trying to spark discussion or someone being mean because RiskyChris has a habit of looking for things to get passionate about and precipitating issues to the point that I'm convinced he's a bit loony, but I assure you my intentions were not to hurt anyone. I only feel that cosmetic surgery is not necessary, and that everyone here was beautiful the day they were born up until the day they die. It angers me that some people feel they have to get cosmetic surgeries because of something someone said, or because they feel rejected in their current body. Surgery for non-medical purposes is something I have never agreed with.

 

[Dan Yo]

But can't you see why gender replacement surgery means a lot to a trans person? Even if - or at least, according to you - the vagina or penis does not look "authentic" don't you think that'd still be a tremendous ego boost to someone who possibly resents having a penis/vagina?

It's like, I can understand your position, but you're not really helping your case.

Haha believe me it is becoming clear that I picked the wrong thread to pick a bone with cosmetic surgeries.

I can understand the "ego boost" aspect of it, but I think the ego boost comes as a direct result of trying to convince others or invalidate everything that others have said. I don't think any of it is tangible.

Lexi might not have the money for surgery. She might not ever have the money for surgery. Does this matter? The surgery won't "fix" her. She is already a woman, always has been, and obviously a lot of people already desire her. So why should she or anybody need a surgery as validation?

 

[Cetra]

Gender reassignment surgery isn't cosmetic. It's repairative. If thats even a word. But I'm sure you get my point.

 

[Dan Yo]

Gender reassignment surgery isn't cosmetic. It's repairative. If thats even a word. But I'm sure you get my point.

I've read about the current surgical method for this procedure and nothing about it strikes me as reparative. It is not only flawed, but the results and the level of satisfaction derived by the patient are completely based on its cosmetic merits.

 

[Cetra]

I typed a long, angry response. But, I decided you aren't worth it. Too cold, too unfeeling, you'd never understand anyways.

 

[Brian Griffin]

So why should she or anybody need a surgery as validation?

Because they do. Simple as that. I understand that I don't understand what's it really feels like to be trans and so no matter how good I think a trans person looks, how they feel about themselves trumps whatever opinion I have. If they say they need surgery to be truly happy with themselves then who am I to say they don't? Arguing against it or trying to convince them that they don't need it is unsupportive and doesn't help anyone.

 

[NewGamePlus]

:lol Oh man, so a little earlier I started typing up this long stupid analogy of what GID is like before becoming aware of the happenings in this thread. I guess maybe I have a reason to finish and post it now. Then again it won't change anything, but I think it's silly so I'll share.

I've only skimmed through the latest posts but I thought I should also share WPATH's Clarification on Medical Necessity for Sex Reassignment Surgery.

Some quotes

The medical procedures attendant to sex reassignment are not “cosmetic” or “elective” or for the mere convenience of the patient. These reconstructive procedures are not optional in any meaningful sense, but are understood to be medically necessary for the treatment of the diagnosed condition.

For example, a recent study of female-to-male transsexuals found significantly improved quality of life following cross-gender hormonal therapy. Moreover, those who had also undergone chest reconstruction had significantly higher scores for general health, social functioning, as well as mental health.

I'll be back in like 10 mins with lunacy.

 

[RiskyChris]

I've read about the current surgical method for this procedure and nothing about it strikes me as reparative. It is not only flawed, but the results and the level of satisfaction derived by the patient are completely based on its cosmetic merits.

How do you know how the satisfaction of somebody else is derived?

 

[Dan Yo]

Because they do. Simple as that. I understand that I don't understand what's it really feels like to be trans and so no matter how good I think a trans person looks, how they feel about themselves trumps whatever opinion I have. If they say they need surgery to be truly happy with themselves then who am I to say they don't? Arguing against it or trying to convince them that they don't need it is unsupportive and doesn't help anyone.

I don't think that's the right answer for everything. I'd like for at least some to know that expensive cosmetic surgeries, in order to shape the body into society's idea of what a woman needs to look like, are not something that everyone feels needs to happen for some perceived transition to take place. They're fine either way, and in my personal opinion, perfect the way they are.

 

[RiskyChris]

"perceived transition"

 

[xpertgamer]

time out...
group hug time

and hiya to everyone! /wave

 

[Risette]

Yes I did. They are both types of cosmetic surgeries. I have a certain aversion to cosmetic surgery in general although I'll admit to probably coming off a little insensitive to those that feel they need to get them.

I'm not sure if I actually came across like someone trying to spark discussion or someone being mean because RiskyChris has a habit of looking for things to get passionate about and precipitating issues to the point that I'm convinced he's a bit loony, but I assure you my intentions were not meant to hurt anyone. I only feel that cosmetic surgery is not necessary, and that everyone here was beautiful the day they were born up until the day they die. It angers me that some people feel they have to get cosmetic surgeries because of something someone said, or because they feel rejected in their current body. Surgery for non-medical purposes is something I have never agreed with.

I think you may be misunderstanding why we feel the way we do. Gender dysphoria (which I feel is a much better term than gender identity disorder) as defined by TheFreeDictionary: unhappiness with one's biological sex or its usual gender role, with the desire for the body and role of the opposite sex.

The whole point in transitioning IMO is to become who we are on the inside, on the outside. Cosmetic surgeries are almost completely necessary for many of us. A masculine feature on a transgirl could be subtle, not even be noticeable or just easily overlooked by others, but it will bring her feelings about herself down immensely. I haven't begun my transition yet so I can't personally comment, but from what I've read and what other transgenders I've talked to have told me, things like that make them feel like they're just a "man in woman's clothes." I should note that the ones I've talked to have shown me pictures of themselves and they really don't really look masculine at all.

Once we notice something, it becomes all we can notice, and no matter how good the sum of everything else looks, it's all we can think about too. This can be facial features, body structure, voice, hair, genitals, etc. Until we are content with ourselves, the way others feel has no effect on us. Something may be subtle, unnoticeable, or easily overlooked for other people, but it's not for us. This can apply to genitals as well. Even if no one besides their partner and their doctor will see them, a transgirl may feel that having a penis still places her in a male body and all her progress, in her eyes, is basically pointless and she'll feel like a male dressing as a female as long as it's still there.

I hope this can at least help you understand why these cosmetic surgeries are pretty meaningful for us.

 

[Dan Yo]

"perceived transition"

Yes, perceived transition. No surgery causes a transition because they were already women to begin with.

 

[NewGamePlus]

Imagine, if you will, that everyone is designated as either a hardcore or casual gamer when they are born. All of the hardcore are given Xbox 360's and casuals are given iPod Touch's.

When you were born, you were identified as a casual gamer and were given your very own Touch. Unfortunately, growing up you started to realize that you didn't personally identify with Touch owners. You realized that you could never be satisfied only playing games like Flight Control and Canabalt. You felt you needed more substantial experiences in your games. In fact, there was this one time as a kid that you downloaded Vay. That felt right, but all the other kids made fun of you for trying to play an RPG on an iPod. "Look that casual kid thinks he's hardcore. I bet he secretly tries to play FPS's too, what a freak." You quickly deleted it.

Eventually this leads to you becoming very depressed. You need to talk to someone before you do something rash. So, you see a thera… (hmm wait, metaphors, metaphors) so, you talk to GAF. You spill your guts in your Mental Health-Age thread, and even go as far to say you think you would have rather been given a 360 when you were born. "You know there are some people that actually switch from being a casual gamer to a hardcore gamer and vice versa," GAF responds. What?! You didn't even know that was possible! GAF says that if that's something you want to do, then you need to keep coming back and talking for a few months so they can get you started. So, every week you diligently post about your life and feelings. Things are looking up, but you're also worried about what people will think about you. After about 3 months, GAF refers you to the gaming side to start game replacement therapy.

360's and Touch's are both electronics after all. If you stop downloading casual games and start filling your iPod with core games, you might actually start to think like and resemble a hardcore gamer. So, the gaming side shows you how to jailbreak your iPod so you can start getting things like an NES emulator and see what it's really like to be hardcore gamer. You're informed that you'll have to play nothing but core games for an entire year if you want to completely transition. You're obviously nervous that people will be hostile towards you if they see you playing hardcore games. But you start by playing Dragon Warrior IV in the privacy of your own home and become absolutely elated. You know this is right for you. You begin the nerve-racking process of telling your friends and family what you are doing. They're put off at first. No one even imagined that you felt like this, but eventually they extend their support when it becomes apparent how happy you've become. You gain enough confidence that you start playing your games in public. It turns out that most people are too involved in themselves to even notice what you are playing. You occasionally get a knowing stare or condescending glance, but never anything near enough to deter you from your path.

So, a year passes and you definitely decide you want to get a 360 and get rid of your Touch for good. You've even saved up enough money to get one. You want to fully be recognized as a hardcore gamer. You get letters recommending you be allowed to buy one from both sides of GAF and head to Gamestop (it should be noted that some people get theirs from Amazon. It's not as convenient but I hear it can be cheaper and the service is even better). You get there and finally get your very own Xbox 360 Arcade. It's not exactly like Premiums that other hardcore gamers have, and it's even in some ways lacking features. But that doesn't matter, it works and you can finally play the games that are right for you. Sure, there are still times when other gamers on Xbox Live call you homophobic slurs, but fuck them. You can finally live your life in content.

 

[NewGamePlus]

^ I should note again that, that wasn't in reply to anything. So, what are we talking about again?

Hey TransGAF, on the lighter side, what's your opinion of these movies which deal with trangender issues in one form or another:

The Crying Game
Breakfast on Pluto

I actually haven't seen either of those.

and hiya to everyone! /wave

Hi! *waves back*

 

[Risette]

Spoiler

Amazon = Thailand?

 

[RiskyChris]

Yes, perceived transition. No surgery causes a transition because they were already women to begin with.

It's part of an entire transition process.

 

[lexi]

All it's missing is a RROD reference. Bravo.

 

[Dan Yo]

I think you may be misunderstanding why we feel the way we do. Gender dysphoria (which I feel is a much better term than gender identity disorder) as defined by TheFreeDictionary: unhappiness with one's biological sex or its usual gender role, with the desire for the body and role of the opposite sex.

The whole point in transitioning IMO is to become who we are on the inside, on the outside. Cosmetic surgeries are almost completely necessary for many of us. A masculine feature on a transgirl could be subtle, not even be noticeable or just easily overlooked by others, but it will bring her feelings about herself down immensely. I haven't begun my transition yet so I can't personally comment, but from what I've read and what other transgenders I've talked to have told me, things like that make them feel like they're just a "man in woman's clothes." I should note that the ones I've talked to have shown me pictures of themselves and they really don't really look masculine at all.

Once we notice something, it becomes all we can notice, and no matter how good the sum of everything else looks, it's all we can think about too. This can be facial features, body structure, voice, hair, genitals, etc. Until we are content with ourselves, the way others feel has no effect on us. Something may be subtle, unnoticeable, or easily overlooked for other people, but it's not for us. This can apply to genitals as well. Even if no one besides their partner and their doctor will see them, a transgirl may feel that having a penis still places her in a male body and all her progress, in her eyes, is basically pointless and she'll feel like a male dressing as a female as long as it's still there.

I hope this can at least help you understand why these cosmetic surgeries are pretty meaningful for us.

I completely understand why it is meaningful and why mental health in general is important, but can you perhaps agree that all the benefits you spoke about above are psychological? I know non-transsexual women that feel they look like men because they're too tall, too broad-shouldered, or not well endowed enough in the chest. Do these girls absolutely require surgery to feel good about who they are, or can they not find a way to be happy with what they have?

I understand one example is less extreme than the other, but I think on some level it illustrates my point.

I appreciate that you didn't jump down my throat by the way.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Epic metaphor

So awesome.

 

[NewGamePlus]

Spoiler

Amazon = Thailand?

Spoiler

Yes, I was being silly

How have you been? You don't post much in this thread.

All it's missing is a RROD reference. Bravo.

Dammit, I knew I was forgetting something. I feel I also need to add on a part about genderqueer Wii owners.

 

[Risette]

Spoiler

Yes, I was being silly

How have you been? You don't post much in this thread.

Pretty alright I guess. Bought two new shirts yesterday. Haven't been playing many games recently aside from some short bursts of Just Cause 2. Mostly I've just been browsing, chatting, and listening to music (well.. lately I've been able to listen to anything other than KMFDM. :lol)

Though, I'm a little stressed out by the fact that I have to make up 19 hours by the end of my school year or I lose all my credits for the first semester due to excessive absences.

Doesn't sound too bad.. but the only way to make these hours up is by going to after school detention (for which the school doesn't provide transportation for afterwards) or going to the school on Saturday from 8AM-12PM (same as ASD, no school transportation.) My dad is a truck driver who isn't here most of the time, my mom has no license and due to a situation with her immigration papers (or whatever they're called) can't even get one if she wanted to until we pay a lot to get them fixed, and I'm too scared to just go get my permit and start driving without having someone teach me first... and even if I did start learning I probably wouldn't feel comfortable driving until well after the school year is over.

I could walk, but I walked home from school once and about halfway there I kinda couldn't feel my left leg at all which is where I've had muscles and nerves taken for transplant into my arm. It took me like an hour to get home. Not doing that again. I'm staying afterschool tomorrow and a close family friend is picking me up but they're leaving for vacation this weekend. What awesome luck I have.

 

[Brian Griffin]

I completely understand why it is meaningful and why mental health in general is important, but can you perhaps agree that everything you spoke about above is psychological? I know naturally born women that feel they look like men because they're too tall, too broad-shouldered, or not well endowed enough in the chest. Do these girls absolutely require surgery to feel good about who they are, or can they not find a way to be happy with what they have?

I understand one example is less extreme than the other, but I think on some level it illustrates my point.

I appreciate that you didn't jump down my throat by the way.

You seem to assume that psychological == changeable, and that's just not the case here, as many have said over and over. It's not like anxiety or depression where the brain has something wrong with it, their brains are fine. It's the body that is wrong. So wrong in fact that it's a perfectly formed body of the gender their brain does NOT identify with. Think of it like one of the worst possible birth defects.

Did you see what NewGamePlus posted above?

The medical procedures attendant to sex reassignment are not “cosmetic” or “elective” or for the mere convenience of the patient. These reconstructive procedures are not optional in any meaningful sense, but are understood to be medically necessary for the treatment of the diagnosed condition.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

This post can be thought of as offtopic and completely random. But when I read the quoted statement, I felt it necessary to comment on it.

The brain and the body develop separately

As I see it, that is just the Cartian split turned into a statement resambling "fact". When in 'fact' it is logically impossible. The brain is part of the body and cannot develop separately from the body. To do so it would have to be a completely different entity (or substance, following Descartes), which we intuitively feel to not be the case.

The question is not, even to Descartes, whether or not the soul or the body exists. If the soul exists (which it does, of course), it exists in the mortal realm in something that has a shape, a volume of sorts. "outside" of our realm -such as heaven- it could presumably exist without the body.

Accepting however, that we cannot make claims from outside our realm, the real question is how the now decreased -from soul- term mind exists in union with the body as it is in this realm, which includes the brain.


There are still many things to be said for the mind as perhaps being able to develop in alternative ways from one and the same body, but the brain itself develops along with the body. It is, after all, just another organ. *

The mind however, that which we never see directly but we "know" / feel compelled to believe it's there, is not. We don't know what the mind is (the brain? the body? a mathematical construct? a strange loop? and so on...), but whatever your starting point is, your views on many topics of identity will be heavily impacted by it. Which is what this topic is really all about: what on earth is an identity? What does it mean to have one? Is it even a thing? Is it a state of something or an idea of such a state, or maybe both?


I believe that is a questionable practise -in debates, politics, science, and so on- to reduce the topic of identity fully to either environment, the body, the brain or the mind / soul. All exist together and cannot be separated in a non-absurd way. That does not imply that I believe that one should be what one is and be done with it, but that the questions and interventions that one decides to make in that whole of being have to be very well thought through.



* = as far as I know, there is no conclusive evidence available that shows the brain beign able to both generate the mind through the body and impact its own development as a result. This statement is also not to be confused with 'mind over matter' of some sort. I am referring here to the question whether mental states (the "mind") can impact the fysical states of the brain and it's future development.

for the record, most neuroscientists seem quite eager to say there is no such connection and 'free will' does not exist as a result. They seem quite content with this euphoric reversal of Cartianism (e.g. "the brain exists, the mind does not"), apparently without realising that this would also mean that the brain is not able to change itself -its future state, that is- by means of reasoned responses to the environment, which implies that there is no reason whatsoever for a body to have a brain in the first place. Whoops.
(which they appear to solve with 'happy accidents', which IMO is rethoric for "I dunno" )


Accept or Ignore this post as you see fit. It is not intended as a threadderail and should be treated as such.

 

[NewGamePlus]

@Aigis

You actually have to make up time? That really sucks, I never had to do anything like that in school. I only had an occasional detention because I was late to my first period every day. I think I was supposed to get one for like every 2 or 3 times I was tardy, but apparently my first period teacher junior year didn't care at all and senior year I would only get them like once a month. And I'm serious, late every day. I was absent a lot too. Thinking back, I was actually a terrible, terrible student.

 

[Risette]

@Aigis

You actually have to make up time? That really sucks, I never had to do anything like that in school. I only had an occasional detention because I was late to my first period every day. I think I was supposed to get one for like every 2 or 3 times I was tardy, but apparently my first period teacher junior year didn't care at all and senior year I would only get them like once a month. And I'm serious, late every day. I was absent a lot too. Thinking back, I was actually a terrible, terrible student.

Yeah. My school/state (dunno) has a strict 8 absences per semester limit. I think I missed 13 days the first semester.

Last year for the first semester I missed like 18. That was 36 hours of makeup time. :lol

 

[Alfarif]

Hey TransGAF, on the lighter side, what's your opinion of these movies which deal with trangender issues in one form or another:

The Crying Game
Breakfast on Pluto

Spoiler

Ace Ventura: Pet Detective

I don't know, but I will give my reviews when I watch them over the course of the next two or three days. Alfarif's Movie Reviews will return.

Baller ass metaphors

Does it make me a creep to say that I give you 5 <3s for how awesome that post is? I'm just trying to see if that nudges the needle on the creep-o-meter hovering over my head. :lol

 

[NewGamePlus]

Does it make me a creep to say that I give you 5 <3s for how awesome that post is? I'm just trying to see if that nudges the needle on the creep-o-meter hovering over my head. :lol

Nah, I think just the fact that this post put you ahead of lexi again in number of posts was enough by itself.

 

[Alfarif]

Nah, I think just the fact that this post put you ahead of lexi again in number of posts was enough by itself.

Did it really? I was taking a breather, but this is a marathon, not a sprint. I swear most of what I posted over the last two months was relevant!

 

[lexi]

Has it been two months already? I remember I was so scared of showing my face, now I'm pretty much the biggest attention whore.

 

[Jamie xxoo]

Hello everyone I've been lurking here for some time because I haven't had anything to say until now.

Anyway, what I have to say is for Jamie: I mean this with the utmost respect, but I honestly can't imagine your face being any more feminine (or beautiful) than it already is! You're not going to have too much done, are you?

@Jamie xxoo - I've also lurked around the Post Pics thread for some time and remember you posting pictures of yourself in front of your macbook and thinking; That is a fantastic looking woman. Who knew pretty women actually graced the OT of GAF. I stumble in here and learn that you are transgender. Mind = Blown. Bravo. What a transformation (granted I know nothing of the before, but still). You're gorgeous.

You are both very nice to say these things, but I wonder if what's happened is that I've just misled people into thinking I look better than I do with flattering photos. Maybe people are filling in blanks with prettier features than I have.

To prove a point here's a good photo from 2 days ago:

Here's a bad one from yesterday (hard to post this):

You can clearly see how testosterone has deformed me in the second pic, yet I can see how this isn't obvious in the first one. I look at the second one and I feel like that's a man in drag in the photo, and that's all I'll ever look like until I get bones reshaped. I can't even describe how bad I feel when I look at that second photo, and that's what I notice about myself when I look in the mirror, and what I'm paranoid about when I go out in public. I very rarely put my hair back for that reason (I was babysitting and my nephew kept grabbing it and pulling so I had to get it away from my face.)

I can't tell you how jarring it is to feel like a woman, to even forget you're trans at all, and then to go to the bathroom and wash your hands and be confronted by this man-face. It just destroys me. Many transwomen don't feel this way though. We are all different.

@d+pad I'm having 7 procedures done on my face and getting the adam's apple shaved off.

@Dan Yo A lot of what you have said has been very hurtful, as well as untrue. You state your opinions as though they are facts and apply to all people and all situations universally. I was sorry to hear that you think of me like that - like a psychologically damaged person who's mutilating her body unnecessarily, who's going to turn out looking like she's been butchered, and who's lying about doing all this for herself rather than society in the process. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise or argue about the results of cosmetic surgeries - it's clear your mind is set.

 

[lexi]

That took amazing courage Jamie, I don't ever see myself being able to post photos at angles like that.

For what it's worth, and I know we spoke about it last night, as much as testosterone deformed parts stand out to you, the bigger picture shows somebody who is obviously female and the maleness is totally muted to even a keen observer. I know how they make YOU feel and that's what FFS surgery is for -- for you.

 

[Alfarif]

I wish I could make my post much longer than this but I'm at work. In one post, Jamie just took Dan Yo to task and cut him off at the knees. Only the coldest, most uncaring, unfeeling person in the world could not be moved by that post. Go get your surgery, Jamie, and become the person you were always meant to be. We will love you no matter what. You will always be beautiful to us, past, present, and future.

Spoiler

I'm getting all teary eyed over here. I love all of you. Group hug.

 

[EatChildren]

You can clearly see how testosterone has deformed me in the second pic, yet I can see how this isn't obvious in the first one.

You really cant though, and Im not just being nice or whatever. Im sure you spot things on a personal level but from an outside observation you're pretty shitty at looking like a male.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You are both very nice to say these things, but I wonder if what's happened is that I've just misled people into thinking I look better than I do with flattering photos. Maybe people are filling in blanks with prettier features than I have.

To prove a point here's a good photo from 2 days ago:

Here's a bad one from yesterday (hard to post this):

You can clearly see how testosterone has deformed me in the second pic, yet I can see how this isn't obvious in the first one. I look at the second one and I feel like that's a man in drag in the photo, and that's all I'll ever look like until I get bones reshaped. I can't even describe how bad I feel when I look at that second photo, and that's what I notice about myself when I look in the mirror, and what I'm paranoid about when I go out in public. I very rarely put my hair back for that reason (I was babysitting and my nephew kept grabbing it and pulling so I had to get it away from my face.)

I can't tell you how jarring it is to feel like a woman, to even forget you're trans at all, and then to go to the bathroom and wash your hands and be confronted by this man-face. It just destroys me. Many transwomen don't feel this way though. We are all different.

@d+pad I'm having 7 procedures done on my face and getting the adam's apple shaved off.

@Dan Yo A lot of what you have said has been very hurtful, as well as untrue. You state your opinions as though they are facts and apply to all people and all situations universally. I was sorry to hear that you think of me like that - like a psychologically damaged person who's mutilating her body unnecessarily, who's going to turn out looking like she's been butchered, and who's lying about doing all this for herself rather than society in the process. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise or argue about the results of cosmetic surgeries - it's clear your mind is set.

You look fine to me. Many women have somewhat masculine features, and honestly looking at the second picture that's what I'd think, not that you were transgender. If I walked by you on the street I wouldn't think twice about it, I'd just think "nice," go home, then post about how I say some babe I should have talked to.

 

[Pop On Arrival]

I don't see what's so "bad" about the second pic. Jamie still looks really pretty. And I'm not saying that because I think surgery is lame(I don't)! She can do whatever she wants.

 

[NewGamePlus]

Wow, Jamie you really suck at looking bad.

Spoiler

I'm getting all teary eyed over here. I love all of you. Group hug.

Spoiler

Gosh, don't be such a girl.