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[lexi]

You make me want to strangle you sometimes, honestly.

 

[EatChildren]

I'm probably not as passable as her anyway.

You calling my Commander Shepard a man?

 

[Cetra]

Oh snap!

*popcorn*

 

[Alfarif]

Oh snap!

*popcorn*

*eats some popcorn out of Ains' bucket* Gonna be soooo good.

 

[AkuMifune]

You make me want to strangle you sometimes, honestly.

Whatever you do, don't get into a sexy outfit and spank her. And then film it.

Don't!

 

[Alfarif]

Whatever you do, don't get into a sexy outfit and spank her. And then film it.

Don't!

*hands Aki some popcorn* Now THIS should be real good.

 

[Roquentin]

I'm probably not as passable as her anyway. I might just go straight through.

SMH, I wonder if Michelle Pfeiffer has similar thoughts.

Just listen to what you said earlier:

It's unhealthy and I'm worried that you're going to play up these anxieties to an extent where they cripple you totally. Try to keep it in perspective.

And remember to focus on the end result. It's the goal that matters, not the process of getting there.

 

[Jamie xxoo]

]I'm probably not as passable as her anyway. I might just go straight through.

LOL I was *trying* to be positive here you've all quoted me out of context!

 

[trollcity]

hello, just being curious. i wanted to ask how long it takes to fully transition aka post-op? and is it because it's so expensive that it seems to take forever (if in fact it does) or is there some other reason? don't feel obliged to answer if this subject is too personal/touchy/intrusive or something and apologies in advance if it is D:

Spoiler

also, alfarif is creepy

 

[lexi]

You need letters of authority from I think 3 medical professionals who have assessed you. I think the only real requirement is that you need to live as your desired gender full-time for a duration of 12 months.

I might be wrong, it's such a distant concern for me that I haven't really read about it any time recently.

The reason it may take a long period of time is that the surgery is prohibitively expensive. *sighs*

 

[Alfarif]

Spoiler

also, alfarif is creepy

I didn't earn this tag for nothing.

Spoiler

This is all in good fun, considering I talk to Lexi and Ainsley daily, and I would anyone else if they wanted to hear the ramblings of a mad man. But you're probably joking anyway.

 

[Roquentin]

Spoiler

also, alfarif is creepy

But I would say he's awesome.

 

[Alfarif]

But I would say he's awesome.

Lexi is gaining. I was going to let her win, but I decided to step my game up while she's away. Alas, I don't really have anything relevant to post other than to defend my creepy status.

 

[Jamie xxoo]

hello, just being curious. i wanted to ask how long it takes to fully transition aka post-op? and is it because it's so expensive that it seems to take forever (if in fact it does) or is there some other reason? don't feel obliged to answer if this subject is too personal/touchy/intrusive or something and apologies in advance if it is D:

It takes a long time to transition because of:

1) costs:

-facial hair removal through electrolysis can be $60-100 an hour, and you can need 50-400 hours of it, so $3000 to $40000 over several years, depending on how many hours a week you can stand. It is incredibly painful and causes redness and in some cases (like mine) extreme swelling that can take days to subside.

-alternatively or additionally, depending on your hair/skin type, you can have laser hair removal. Prices vary widely and so does the success of the removal. My clinic charges $180 per session (once every 5 weeks) for the first 8 sessions and then $90 for each session after. You might need 10 sessions or more. Often people do 6 or 7 laser sessions then change to electrolysis to get what's left.

- hormones - costs vary widely from country to country. I know they are a LOT more expensive in the US than here. I think this is only $60 every few months for me - I've heard in the US it can go a LOT higher (maybe someone can say?)

- a new wardrobe - you need shoes, clothes, makeup, accessories, work clothes, casual clothes - this is the expense you don't really plan for but it really hits you.

- pre-transition therapy sessions, psychiatrist appointments during transition (mandatory if you want surgery), endocrinologist fees to monitor your blood while you're on hormones to make sure they are at the right level and that they aren't killing you.

- surgeries - $18K for bottom surgery, or you can get an orchiectomy (not sure of that spelling) which is basically just castration, and then get bottom surgery down the line. I think orhiectomies are only a few thousand. Facial surgery can vary from a few thousand to remove the adams apple only, to 40K if you see a top doctor and do EVERYTHING. I'm not sure of the cost of breast implants (never investigated but some people never develop breasts and think it's important to have them), but it would be thousands.

- Also when you get these surgeries there are recovery periods during which you can't work. You can be off work for 8 weeks with the downstairs surgery.

I've seen people estimate their transitions at *up to* $150K (don't get depressed Lexi that's the extreme case). That's a lot of money to come up with, and not many people can do it quickly. It has to be spread out over years.

2) Mandatory waiting periods and "gatekeeper" mental health professionals.

There are international standards of care for the treatment of transsexualism that define requirements for psychiatric monitoring and waiting periods for hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. I'm embarrassed to say I've kind of forgotten exactly what they are - I think it's 3 months of therapy or 3 months of living as your felt gender before a doctor is supposed to prescribe any hormones, and then 2 years of actually living as your felt gender 24/7 before a psychiatrist will provide you with a letter to recommend to a surgeon that you have the surgery. It's difficult to find a doctor or a surgeon that will work outside these guidelines or some version of them.

The gender clinic that's treating me now only makes you wait 12 months after you start living as your felt gender to be approved for surgery. You see a psych regularly during that time so you are monitored to make sure you don't fall apart and that you can make transition work as a permanent life choice. If you are struggling with employment, struggling emotionally with prejudice or lack of support etc, they will hold off on approving you for surgery until you've proven you can function in society as your felt gender. The logic is that granting a sex change to someone who is then miserable in their gender role is a recipe for suicide, because once you've had the surgery, it's impossible to restore your genitals to their original state if you change your mind because it's all too difficult.

But they are VERY hesitant to let you get onto hormones in the first place, which almost everyone wants to do BEFORE they go start living as a woman (or man) and begin the 12 month wait (as long as everything goes right) to have surgery. This clinic has you assessed by two psychiastrists over a minimum 3 months. Often people have already been seeing a psychologist for ages before they even go to the clinic, but a psychologist can't do a recommendation for hormones. If there is ANY sign that you are hesitant or have psychological issues that aren't gender-identity related which could be the cause of someone wanting to change sex, (e.g dual personalities), they will keep you in therapy until they are absolutely convinced it is the right choice for you. You could be doing therapy for months and months.

3) People need time to adjust and deal with the psychological ramifications of DOING this stuff. Not everyone immediately jumps into this mindset that they're trans and that that's OK. Many people struggle with presentation issues and feel they CAN'T present themselves as their felt gender until they've been on hormones for a few years. And then there's simple fear. Transitioning takes a lot of bravery. It can take months to get over fear at all sorts of stages - admitting it to yourself (this was my issue), coming out to family and loved ones, coming out to work, fear of public ridicule and harassment and worse, fear of being a freak, fear of losing a partner - so many issues to work through. And if you try to transition WITH a partner or with children, they can really hold you back as many people feel frightened to take a next step - like dressing as female - for fear of ramifications - what if this triggers my partner to leave? Will this confuse my kids about what boys and girls do?

Also, transition is emotionally, physically, mentally draining. Sometimes you float along for a while not making any new progress because you're just tapped out.

I could write a bunch more about point 3 but this is already toooooo long. Should give you an idea of why it takes a while though. You can't just wake up one day and say "I'm going to have a sex change!" and call up the hospital to make a surgery appointment.

 

[lexi]

Whatever you do, don't get into a sexy outfit and spank her. And then film it.

Don't!

You're Goldblum'ing.

 

[Stackboy]

Hey everyone.

I've known Lexi since about 2002, if I remember correctly. We both use to attend a local LAN party. Our group of friends has remained pretty close throughout the years.

Just dropping in, I pretty much read all 40 pages over the last few days and it's really helped me to understand what Lexi has been going through.

No doubt I'll post back from time to time.

So, guess I'm saying hi!!!

Oh, and Lexi should totally come back to LS. Girls play games, I've seen it in the wild.

 

[Alfarif]

Hey everyone.

I've known Lexi since about 2002, if I remember correctly. We both use to attend a local LAN party. Our group of friends has remained pretty close throughout the years.

Just dropping in, I pretty much read all 40 pages over the last few days and it's really helped me to understand what Lexi has been going through.

No doubt I'll post back from time to time.

So, guess I'm saying hi!!!

Oh, and Lexi should totally come back to LS. Girls play games, I've seen it in the wild.

That is beyond awesome! And hello there. I've only known Lexi since the start of this thread, but she's absolutely awesome and a joy to talk to. Probably even moreso to play games with.

 

[half a moon]

I didn't earn this tag for nothing.

Spoiler

This is all in good fun, considering I talk to Lexi and Ainsley daily, and I would anyone else if they wanted to hear the ramblings of a mad man. But you're probably joking anyway.

Spoiler

i get a creepy vibe myself. i have never seen another poster dedicate 90% of his posts to one thread flirting.

 

[AkuMifune]

You're Goldblum'ing.

Can you believe I had to urban dictionary that? I'm old.

Do you mean drawing attention to a negative characteristic, in which case I would say no way! You're a tall sexy drink of water ms. lexi!

Also, gold game gone gone blum gold. Game.

 

[Alfarif]

Spoiler

i get a creepy vibe myself. i have never seen another poster dedicate 90% of his posts to one thread flirting.

:lol Awww. Well, I was sure at least half of them were about transrelated movies I was watching, then another 1/4th were posts telling everyone I wasn't transitioning, and then another 1/8th were reassurances to people that they looked great. I swear only a scant 5% were of the creepy variety! Honest! :lol :lol

 

[NewGamePlus]

- hormones - costs vary widely from country to country. I know they are a LOT more expensive in the US than here. I think this is only $60 every few months for me - I've heard in the US it can go a LOT higher (maybe someone can say?)

I think mine should be $150 every 3 months. Also, if anyone actually wants to read more about #2 you can find the Standards of Care by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) here.

:lol Awww. Well, I was sure at least half of them were about transrelated movies I was watching, then another 1/4th were posts telling everyone I wasn't transitioning, and then another 1/8th were reassurances to people that they looked great. I swear only a scant 5% were of the creepy variety! Honest! :lol :lol

Gah, that only 92.5%. Why would you do that to me? Where's the other 7.5%, hmm? O_O

 

[Alfarif]

Gah, that only 92.5%. Why would you do that to me? Where's the other 7.5%, hmm? O_O

I ain't sayin, sistah, and you can't make me!

 

[lexi]

Hi Stacky!

 

[Stackboy]

Sup!! I would have brought Creme eggs, but I think they are done for the year.

 

[lexi]

Probably for the benefit of my waistline. I was on 3 minieggs a day, at LEAST.

 

[Android18a]

They should rename them mmmmmmmmmmeggs.

*Is also trying to diet a bit*

 

[trollcity]

Spoiler

i get a creepy vibe myself. i have never seen another poster dedicate 90% of his posts to one thread flirting.

Spoiler

did anyone else notice his w i f e was briefly participating in the thread but left? yeah. i'd be pissed too if my no good husband was constantly requesting dirty pics from cuties on the internet

thanks lexi and jamie for your responses to my question. i guess it was a pretty dumb one - seems kinda obvious now. i wish it wasn't so expensive for you though

 

[mcrae]

Spoiler

did anyone else notice his w i f e was briefly participating in the thread but left? yeah. i'd be pissed too if my no good husband was constantly requesting dirty pics from cuties on the internet

are you kidding me? do you even have a husband? or any significant other? have you ever?

the guy is obviously just all about the flattery and banter. if his relationship with his wife was one where he couldn't joke around on the internet, i doubt he would, especially in a thread she reads....

relationships require trust, and if you get pissed when your husband compliments people on the internet, you have wayyyyy more issues to worry about than him complimenting people on the internet.



ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN TOPIC: why are you going to thailand, jamie? are there no doctors in aussie that do the procedure? are you scared about slack medical practices in thailand?

 

[Alfarif]

Spoiler

did anyone else notice his w i f e was briefly participating in the thread but left? yeah. i'd be pissed too if my no good husband was constantly requesting dirty pics from cuties on the internet

thanks lexi and jamie for your responses to my question. i guess it was a pretty dumb one - seems kinda obvious now. i wish it wasn't so expensive for you though

Oh man, I feel like I got hella trolled.

The question wasn't dumb, by the way. A lot of people think it really is as easy as hopping down to a place and getting a couple operations and that's that.

 

[lexi]

ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN TOPIC: why are you going to thailand, jamie? are there no doctors in aussie that do the procedure? are you scared about slack medical practices in thailand?

Probably because it would cost maybe 5x more in Australia and I don't even think there are any surgeons who a) can do the surgeries and b) do a good job.

I've known a lot of people get procedures done in Thailand and they've had nothing but the highest praise for basically everything.

 

[mcrae]

Probably because it would cost maybe 5x more in Australia and I don't even think there are any surgeons who a) can do the surgeries and b) do a good job.

I've known a lot of trans people get procedures done in Thailand and they've had nothing but the highest praise for basically everything.

so whats the deal with what i (probably ignorantly) thought was a third world country having world class specialized plastic surgeons?

or is it just in the western countries they are more expensive, like you said?

 

[lexi]

Thailand is hardly 3rd world!

I imagine it's because Thailand has a very high concentration of transgender procedures, and it's simply a sort of evolutionary process. A lot of the procedures in common use around the world were actually pioneered in Thailand.

 

[Jamie xxoo]

so whats the deal with what i (probably ignorantly) thought was a third world country having world class specialized plastic surgeons?

or is it just in the western countries they are more expensive, like you said?

I chose this surgeon on his results and reputation. I did a lot of research on internet forums for people who are getting or who have had these surgeries, where they talk about their experiences and show pictures of results. I also know someone who's been to this surgeon for the procedures I'm having and he did a great job on her, and she raved about the whole experience.

I didn't even think about cost in making a choice. I wouldn't cheap out on something like this - it's my face, and it's for the rest of my life.

The after-care is apparently AMAZING, the hospital is first-world quality (it sounds better than Australia's actually), there's a life-time guarantee on the operation, and the people who I've seen who've been look terrific. The other benefit for me is that Thailand is closer than the U.S - shorter flights, so less chance of DVT.

I suspect because of the sex trade in Thailand and the ladyboy culture there, that these surgeons started specializing in feminization simply because of demand. Lexi's right, they pioneer techniques and are amongst the best in the world. There's no-one in Australia I'd trust to do what I'm getting done, the expertise and experience here doesn't compare. I'm not sure it would be more expensive here though, because there'd be no need for fights and 4 weeks of accommodation/food, and I could claim some of it on insurance.

 

[trollcity]

blah blah blah

omg.

really? do i need to quote my own username for you? have you ever even used an internet? have you ever seen one?

this thread is fun! jamie, more personal quesitons (also optional) why are you having the facial surgery before the other surgery (i don't know what it's called)? is it another money thing?

Spoiler

you're still a creep alfarif

 

[Jamie xxoo]

ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN TOPIC: why are you going to thailand, jamie? are there no doctors in aussie that do the procedure? are you scared about slack medical practices in thailand?

I just noticed this. I answered the question already but wanted to stress that there is NOTHING slack about this medical practice. I know an American nurse who went there for the downstairs operation and she raved about how much better the care is than in the U.S. The idea that it must be dodgy because it's not a Western country is a misconception.

 

[Jamie xxoo]

omg.

really? do i need to quote my own username for you? have you ever even used an internet? have you ever seen one?

this thread is fun! jamie, more personal quesitons (also optional) why are you having the facial surgery before the other surgery (i don't know what it's called)? is it another money thing?

Spoiler

you're still a creep alfarif

I can't have downstairs surgery until I have been living as female 24/7 for a year, which will be in January. It's not even an option until then.

I also experience more feelings or shame and anxiety about my face not looking female than I do about my genitals being wrong.

 

[lexi]

I also experience more feelings or shame and anxiety about my face not looking female than I do about my genitals being wrong.

It's sort of the reverse for me. But I'm by no means a fan of my face.

 

[beje]

It's sort of the reverse for me. But I'm by no means a fan of my face.

Maybe you should stop focusing in details and start seeing everything as a whole. Trust me, it works. I've been obsessed with small nose and girl hands since I stopped growing (almost reached my current height at 12) and stopped doing so when I noticed it wasn't worth it because the whole looks good.

I know it's not easy, especially in transgendered people, but you have to take the effort to look at yourself in a mirror and say "I'm pretty".

 

[Android18a]

Being honest, my genitals don't *bother* me as such. I've sort of gotten used to them being there. I'd be happy to just be seen as a female to other people regardless of whether or not I'd had that operation. But I'm a vain creature :3

 

[d+pad]

Hello everyone I've been lurking here for some time because I haven't had anything to say until now.

Anyway, what I have to say is for Jamie: I mean this with the utmost respect, but I honestly can't imagine your face being any more feminine (or beautiful) than it already is! You're not going to have too much done, are you?

Also, I just want to say that although I'm a member of gay GAF, I find this thread much more interesting than the actual gay GAF thread. No offense to my brothers and sisters in that thread, of course!

 

[Dan Yo]

Being honest, my genitals don't *bother* me as such. I've sort of gotten used to them being there. I'd be happy to just be seen as a female to other people regardless of whether or not I'd had that operation. But I'm a vain creature :3

Good for you. I think that's an incredibly mature way of looking at your situation.

I've always seen cosmetic surgery as being a band aid over a gaping wound. Many that go for it claim it has nothing to do with what other people think and only to do with what they think, but that simply is a bunch of bull. I think people that feel that they can't be happy without an artificial fix have deep issues with how they feel they are perceived by others and no amount of surgery will fix the real problem.

Personally, I find someone that has had cosmetic surgery (cosmetic surgery is immediately recognizable) instantly less attractive because to me that person has a psychological issue that causes them to have hangups about things that aren't at all important.

And yes I have seen examples of the results of genital reconstruction surgery and I have found none of the accounts convincing. People should see that having differences are what makes them unique. It's what makes you stick out and become interesting to the person who is right for you.

I don't want to sound condescending to anyone that has been under the knife or plans to, but know that there are some people out there that find it completely unnecessary, and most often detrimental. You just don't need it. It's not what is going to help you.

 

[Exhumed]

I think that is why there is such an extensive therapy related trial period before these kinds of surgeries can be done. A mental issue is every bit as real as a physical issue. In the case of these lovely individuals, they have to go through so much to get it done. I would say this doesn't apply here, beauty related cosmetic surgery is far different.

 

[Dan Yo]

I think that is why there is such an extensive therapy related trial period before these kinds of surgeries can be done. A mental issue is every bit as real as a physical issue. In the case of these lovely individuals, they have to go through so much to get it done. I would say this doesn't apply here, beauty related cosmetic surgery is far different.

I'm speaking about both.

The genital surgery is not different at all. It's a psychological crutch. It provides no health benefits, nor does it make pregnancy a possibility. It is simply a procedure that profits off of the emotional vulnerability of those that feel it will make them become more valid during their struggle for identification.

 

[Davedough]

I've noticed this thread pop to the top of the OT every so often and I sometimes jump in to see what the fuss is about and read a few stories then move on about my business. I reckon myself a very open minded person and some of the best people I've ever been associated with live an alternate lifestyle, be it gay, lesbian or transgender. (Although, admittedly I've only ever met one transgender person)... anyway, enough of the disclaimer.

@Jamie xxoo - I've also lurked around the Post Pics thread for some time and remember you posting pictures of yourself in front of your macbook and thinking; That is a fantastic looking woman. Who knew pretty women actually graced the OT of GAF. I stumble in here and learn that you are transgender. Mind = Blown. Bravo. What a transformation (granted I know nothing of the before, but still). You're gorgeous.

 

[Exhumed]

I'm speaking about both.

The genital surgery is not different at all. It's a psychological crutch. It provides no health benefits, nor does it make pregnancy a possibility. It is simply a procedure that profits off of the emotional vulnerability of those that feel it will make them become more valid during their struggle for identification.

Perhaps you misunderstand that some of these individuals are female in every way and were trapped in a male body? This includes the genitals. Now obviously this isn't the case for everyone, but if the individual's goal is to be female in every way, shouldn't they have that option? Again, these surgeries are not even approved if you haven't lived as the individual you want to be for a year (according to Jamie). Either way you really have to look deeper at what the person is going through. If it was simply emotional vulnerability, these surgeries would be far more accessible, just like your typical plastic surgery.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I'd say having a vagina is very much a part of being a woman...

Edit: Lets not leave out men here too. Having a penis is very much a part of being a man.

 

[RiskyChris]

And yes I have seen examples of the results of genital reconstruction surgery and I have found none of the accounts convincing. People should see that having differences are what makes them unique. It's what makes you stick out and become interesting to the person who is right for you.

Oh my god get out.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Someone shouldn't have to go through a cosmetic surgery to feel like themselves or to feel like they'll be loved. The right person will love you regardless.

I don't think it's even about love at all, it's about how trans people feel in their own body. That's the point, some of them DO have to go through surgery to feel like themselves.

I'm speaking about both.

The genital surgery is not different at all. It's a psychological crutch. It provides no health benefits, nor does it make pregnancy a possibility. It is simply a procedure that profits off of the emotional vulnerability of those that feel it will make them become more valid during their struggle for identification.

Again, that's not the point. Femininity isn't determined solely on what you are packing but it can surely influence it. These women want to look, act, and feel feminine for themselves and having a penis is going to be a big problem for a lot of them. I'm constantly aware of my penis and it affects what clothes I wear, what positions I can comfortably sit in, how I go to the bathroom, how I have sex, etc. This is fine for me because I like being male, but someone who wants the full female experience is going to want to dress, sit, pee, and have sex like a female.

 

[Roquentin]

I'm speaking about both.

The genital surgery is not different at all. It's a psychological crutch. It provides no health benefits, nor does it make pregnancy a possibility. It is simply a procedure that profits off of the emotional vulnerability of those that feel it will make them become more valid during their struggle for identification.

It's like saying that hormone therapy is also pointless. IMO there's a difference between not accepting your body and not having the body that represents you. Not to mention how it affects social and sexual life.

@Jamie xxoo - I've also lurked around the Post Pics thread for some time and remember you posting pictures of yourself in front of your macbook and thinking; That is a fantastic looking woman. Who knew pretty women actually graced the OT of GAF. I stumble in here and learn that you are transgender. Mind = Blown. Bravo. What a transformation (granted I know nothing of the before, but still). You're gorgeous.

Yeah, she got pretty popular in that thread. Well, she's beautiful. I bet quite a lot of people (including myself) visited this thread after seeing her there.

 

[RiskyChris]

I don't want to sound condescending to anyone that has been under the knife or plans to, but know that there are some people out there that find it completely unnecessary, and most often detrimental. You just don't need it. It's not what is going to help you.

This is condescending as shit.

It is simply a procedure that profits off of the emotional vulnerability of those that feel it will make them become more valid during their struggle for identification.

Please don't say emotional vulnerability like anyone should feel wrong for not agreeing with their body. Validity and struggling for identification? Yeah you don't know shit about this, so please don't be trivialize it like people can be invalid. You're being emotionally daft.

 

[Dan Yo]

I don't think it's even about love at all, it's about how trans people feel in their own body. That's the point, some of them DO have to go through surgery to feel like themselves.

That's just the thing though. You admit it is psychological. I don't agree that anyone under any circumstances should have to go through a cosmetic surgery to feel like themselves. It is a mental barrier that can be broken, and in my opinion, should be before resorting to surgery for cosmetic purposes.