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Trigun

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Chrono

Banned
I just finished watching the anime Trigun and I seriously need some answers;

1- How the HELL did an anime like this get a reputation to being up there with Cowboy Bebop?

It’s not even close. The story was great and had potential...
but I didn't care for the deaths of some characters, like Wolfwood and Brad, like I cared for Julia and spike. When Trigun became "serious" the character development with Vash and his past is no where close to Bebop's.

2-
So exactly WHAT are vash and his brother are? Aliens? Genetically engineered immortal humans?
I hate it when some anime never answer some questions. Last exile is one of those though I still think it rocks and better then trigun.

3- I just want to make sure of this..
Vash didn't kill his brother right? Knives had bandages the last time I saw him and vash carried him..
. Heh I know this question is just 'DUH!" but my brain just doesn't believe some stuff if I expect something else.. or have a spec of doubt and I keep hanging and thinking about it. It's weird. I remember after watching Here and There, Now and Then I popped the last DVD back several times to make sure
the main character returned to his home and not some place else.. even though the tone of the ending was pretty clear..
something must be wrong with me heh. =\

Overall though I think it's a good anime. I give it a 7 out of 10. What I like most is that I don't have to dread remembering it or if I buy the DVDs I could watch it again (though I don't plan to). With other sad-- and just out right #%$%# up anime like EVA -- I don't want to ever have anything to do with the anime even if I loved it. :)


EDIT:

on and what does "Trigun" mean?
 

Rorschach

Member
It seems like you didn't even "get" most of it. Like if you weren't even paying attention.

Also:

You cared about Julia more than you did about Woolfwood? Julia was in bebop for like 10 seconds....why would you give two chits about her? Hell, I cared more about Woolfwood than Vash.
 

Chrono

Banned
ugh.. I paid attention. :(

Well julia wasn't in bebop for a long time but spike was and we knew how much she meant to him. Ok maybe that's not it... it's just that wolfwood's death wasn't as sad to me. And I cried on several different deaths in several anime. I don't know what was different this time. =\

maybe I'm dried out of tears? Hahahah!! Ahem.
 

neptunes

Member
it's funny cause I'm watching the anime this very instant!

my friend let me borrow his whole set and I'm on the 4 episode.
 

Chrono

Banned
7imz said:
you didn't care for wolfwood's death :(... tha'ts not possible

Ferrio said:
Wolfwood's death was one of the most moving and best imagery i've ever seen in anime

I feel like a cold bastard... :(

Dammit this thread is making me worry. Maybe I don't like anime aymore? I always get moved by anime. After watching a good series it doesn't leave my head for several days and weeks if it's a really sad one. I'm watching Wolf's Rain next and it better be sad or else I'm re-watching Saikano!

EDIT:

I'm curious to know how would you guys compare Trigun to Cowboy Bebop? Is it in your top 5 anime list? top 20?
 

Belfast

Member
I think the comparisons between Trigun and Bebop are because they're practically blood brothers that came out and gained prominance during the same time period.

I personally think they are on about the same level. Bebop is far from perfect, I'm not going to call it style over substance, because substance was there....but people tend to forget some of the rather iffy filler episodes. Also, while character development had a big impact it was fundamentally simple. The characters in CB are really no more than what they are, and while that is the point of the series, they aren't really treated like character studies.

So really what I'm saying is that the storytelling style of CB has merit, but it doesn't have any MORE merit than, say, Trigun, which takes a deeper emotional investment in its main characters. Once again, I'm not saying CB sucks, I'm just saying that initially, it can seem like its on a higher plane of storytelling and charaterization, that it really probably isn't. I'm merely trying to put them on an even playing field.

I, too, cried over Wolfwood' death and also Vash being forced to kill Legato. These were the two parts of the series with the most impact, IMO, because they are both turning points where both characters are realize that they have betrayed their ultimate convictions. Wolfwood, ultimately a good man, has to pay penance for his participation in the Gung-Ho Guns, something which he evidently comes to regret after spending so much time with Vash. And of course, Vash, who vowed never to kill anybody due to the wrath his brother unleashed and caused *him* to unleash with his plant gun. Vash and Knives are essentially Angels, though they aren't necessarily so in the classical religious sense. I doubt even the humans know where they come from specifically, but they are rather beings that just *are* as, say, the idea that God just exists and has always existed. Apparently normally benevloent creatures of great power, they have long lives and tremendous amounts of energy.

Most of these "Plants" are used to fuel the ships carrying the colonists and, later, to provide power and livelihood for the cities which spring up on the new planet's surface. Of course, due to the calamitous way in which the ships are crashed into the planet, much of the technology is lost and most people eventually forget what the Plants are or how they work - merely that they are crucial to the functioning of their daily lives.

Obviously, there are some general religious comparisons here.

Knives and Vash ultimately represent vague ideas of good and evil. One could almost say that Vash represents the ultimate good of heaven, while Knives is a fallen angel who represents an ultimate evil. However, neither actually represents and ultimate anything, because their lives, unlike the other Plants, have been directly influenced by interaction with humans. Vash learns to love and value life through Rem, while Knives learns to hate through the ridicule and abuse he experiences. What we know, though, is that both are capable of highly destructive power in addition to their beneficial power, and Vash continually faces inner turmoil over his ability to control what's inside him.

What makes this all confusing, and what I think turns some people off the series is that its essentially built *backwards.* There's a lot of foreshadowing in the beginning, hidden amongst supposedly "filler" episodes that can only be understood after having seen the second half of the series, and can be further clarified by reading the manga. So people expect one thing and then see Vash act like a goofball for 10-12 episodes and wonder what the hell people are raving about. Thing is, as you may have figured out, Vash acts like an idiot on purpose. How can anyone believe he's a destructive force when he seems so stupid? As evidenced in the first couple episodes, nobody can believe that Vash is the man that he is because he's not at all what people are expecting. This allows him to basically stay out of the limelight and try to keep to himself while rumors continue to fly about concerning who he is and what he actually looks like.

His goofball demeanor serves a second purpose, as well. As they say, humor is the best medicine, and its certainly the best way for Vash to deal with his own problems as well as with other people that he encounters. He'd obviously much rather keep his burden to himself, but as the series goes on, its something he seems to have a harder and harder time doing until he ultimately breaks down and shoots Legato. All of this is basically a way for Knives to prove to his brother that he is capable of the same kinds of violent acts as himself.

I already feel like I've written an essay, so before I go on too long I'll just wrap it up and answer a couple more questions:

1) The series does and doesn't answer many questions. :\ What I mean by that is that it certainly doesn't answer them directly, but with enough thought put into it, there's quite a bit of hidden depth. All the answers are essentially there, but many of them are inferred through a little guesswork. They don't just come out and explain everything.

2) Its really unknown whether Vash killed his brother or not. I think they purposefully left this open, but its ultimately assumed by most people that he didn't. Because he killed Legato and broke his oath doesn't mean he's willing to kill again. Knives wasn't able to convert Vash or make him feel superior to humans. Futhermore, why bandage a dead body? And, of course, if you watch their final duel, he shoots him in the arms and legs so he can't move. Totally incapacitated, and given Vash's convictions, its highly doubtful he would've shot him after he couldn't move anymore. What likely happens afterwards is that Vash gives him a nice dose of brotherly love and attempts to immerse him in a happier human society than he experienced as a kid.

3) Trigun has multiple refrences -

Vash's 3 guns: his pistol, the hidden one in his arm, and his Plant gun.

The trinity between Vash, Milly, and Meryl (of course this kind of goes out the window once Wolfwood shows up).

And I believe that Wolfwood's cross also has three firing modes.

There may also be other references here and there, but those are the ones I feel stand out the most.


edit: good luck with Wolf's Rain. Its sad, but not because of the emotional impact. I can't say I fell in love with the characters, the story drags on for a long time and is more serious than CB (CB tended to break things up with a little sly humor once in awhile and presents different kinds of characters, while Wolf's Rain tends to play more towards character stereotypes). This is not to mention the MULTIPLE flashback episodes in the middle which sum up an already tedious story.

As far as Trigun, I once would've placed it on top of my list. I've gotten into series since then that I think top it, but its still one of my favorite. I think on my personal list, I'd put it slightly higher than Cowboy Bebop.
 

=W=

Member
Ferrio said:
Wolfwood's death was one of the most moving and best imagery i've ever seen in anime
IAWTP. One of the best deaths ever.

As far as how it compares to Bebop, I usually give the nod to Bebop just out of sheer style and imagery. But I think Trigun is more consistent than Bebop. Bebop has some really boring episodes that I just flat out don't like, while I can't think of a single episode of Trigun that I didn't at least enjoy. Both are definitely in my top 10 (and more than likely in my top 5).
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Ferrio said:
Wolfwood's death was one of the most moving and best imagery i've ever seen in anime

Yeah, when my friend and I watched Trigun, after Wolfwood died we were just stupified. I almost cried, and I never cry at anything media. Even for a few days, it kept coming back to our minds, as if a real friend to us had died! And poor Milly too :( it was really sad when she started crying, she was always so happy. Man it's moving just rememberign ti now... Sooo good, though other parts of the story were fantastic as well.
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
I think the environment and art style was pretty kick-ass overall.

I also think that Vash is way too much of a whiny blubbering bitch. You know what you're capable of and doing, and life is hell; suck it the fuck up, buck-o.

Oh, if you aren't aware, Wolfwood
doesn't die
in the manga.
 
Ferrio said:
Wolfwood's death was one of the most moving and best imagery i've ever seen in anime

Yup. Wolfwood was my favorite character in the series and that was probably the best "dead" of a major character in anime that I've seen. It was nicely done, particularly with the light coming in and him with that cross.
 

RiZ III

Member
Wolfwoods death was one of the saddest moments in any anime I've seen.

I think the only other anime that had the same kind of effect on me as
Wolfwoods death
was the ending to Gungrave.
 

Asbel

Member
I think you were just over-hyped for Trigun off your CB high. I got into Trigun first and someone on gaf recommended me CB. I was rather dissapointed with it. I noticed what made it good but it wasn't what I was looking for or expected at the time. It took me about 2 years later to finish off CB. I like it and think of the series as the best collection of filler stories cuz the main story, Spikes, was rather short.

Belfast wrote quite the essay there. I'll just add a bit to what he said.

On what Vash and Knives are. Although their existence is mostly symbolic, there are some clues as to what they are. When Vash talks to the Plants (beings inside lightbulbs), I believe he called her sister. Both are vessels for an incredible amount of energy and there's also the angle feathers. (this is a lot more obvious in the manga but I'm trying to stick to just what the anime shows). The main difference is that Vash and Knives don't have to exist inside those lightbulbs. My guess is that the Plants gave birth to their evolution in Vash and Knives. Also, there are similarities to normal plants. Vash revives off water, lives for hunderds of years like trees and can regenerate (Vash refuses but Knives does it).

I met Nishimaru (directed Trigun and Ippo) last year. He was a very nice and humble type of person. Trigun is the one anime I like more than the manga counterpart and I give him a lot of credit for that. Little things like not firing the gun til the 5th episode and big things like the ending were not in the manga (the manga has yet to finish). I hear he'll be at AX this year and he is happy to discuss his anime with fans. He doesn't draw a big crowd (unlike Nightow) so there'll be time to talk with him (there should be a translator there).
 

nitewulf

Member
bebop, trigun and outlaw star are compared because they came out around the same time and are all "space cowboy" animes. with that said, the three shows are very different in mood from each other. bebop is much more moody, and it doesnt really flow from one episode to next. there is a general backstory but its given out very slowly and vaguely. the viewer himself has to figure out most of the backstory by himself. trigun flows from one episode to next, is much more light hearted in the beginning and in general is more coherent IMO.

trigun reffers to...

*spoiler*
three guns. vash himself has an attached blaster, remember. he is a weapon.
*spoiler*

vash and knives are...

*spoiler*
plants, well they are plant like beings...
*spoiler*

and i loved wolfwood, i was very saddened by his death.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
You're not alone CHrono, i wasnt a big fan of the series as a whole. I thought it started out great but it got worst and worst as the series moved IMHO. Took itself way too seriously after establashing a comedic mood at the beginning. Also i just think the whole thing got a little too weird for its own good...a problem with a lot of anime. Loved the characters and the art work though, good stuff.
 

Mugen

Banned
Trigun is a great anime. The only thing that bothered me about it is the constant crying of Vash in the later eps.
 

Outlaw

Banned
Trigun is pretty good but Bebop is just in another league by itself.








ryunekkid.jpg
so fucking gay.......
 

bjork

Member
As some of you know, I work in an anime shop, so I have access to pretty much everything... can someone tell me at what point does Trigun begin to get good?

I put it on one day out of curiosity, and ended up shutting it off halfway through episode 3. Supposedly you've got to get to a specific episode before it gets good, so I'd rather just skip to that one instead of sitting through what I was watching.
 
bjork said:
As some of you know, I work in an anime shop, so I have access to pretty much everything... can someone tell me at what point does Trigun begin to get good?

I put it on one day out of curiosity, and ended up shutting it off halfway through episode 3. Supposedly you've got to get to a specific episode before it gets good, so I'd rather just skip to that one instead of sitting through what I was watching.

Try the episode titled "Diablo" or something like that, episode 9 maybe?
 

nitewulf

Member
i started really liking it since the episode "lost july", i think thats episode 4.
shieeeeet, that avatar is making me look gay, as people are coming in my room while im browsing the forums...
 

Asbel

Member
bjork said:
As some of you know, I work in an anime shop, so I have access to pretty much everything... can someone tell me at what point does Trigun begin to get good?

I put it on one day out of curiosity, and ended up shutting it off halfway through episode 3. Supposedly you've got to get to a specific episode before it gets good, so I'd rather just skip to that one instead of sitting through what I was watching.

So do you not like the slapstick comedy in One Piece either? Guess I'm one of the few who like the funny as much as the serious half.

p.s. sanji = best character in one piece
 

Chrono

Banned
bjork said:
As some of you know, I work in an anime shop, so I have access to pretty much everything... can someone tell me at what point does Trigun begin to get good?

I put it on one day out of curiosity, and ended up shutting it off halfway through episode 3. Supposedly you've got to get to a specific episode before it gets good, so I'd rather just skip to that one instead of sitting through what I was watching.


Start with episode 13 which recaps everything from the beginning that you skipped.


Doc Holliday said:
You're not alone Chrono, i wasnt a big fan of the series as a whole. I thought it started out great but it got worst and worst as the series moved IMHO. Took itself way too seriously after establashing a comedic mood at the beginning. Also i just think the whole thing got a little too weird for its own good...a problem with a lot of anime. Loved the characters and the art work though, good stuff.

I think that's why I didn't feel the impact of Wolfwood's death as most people in this thread. The show was just too light hearted and then turned serious all of a sudden. Also, the anime doesn't emphasize the moment wolfwood killed the gung-ho kid enough. It just "happens" and he argues about it with Vash. When he was crying in the church at the end, it would have been much more powerfull if we got a taste of what he did. More flashbacks detaling the story of killing his father for example. Him suffering trying not to kill his "master" that was trying to finish him off. It would emphasize his sacrifce and let us see how he has changed.

But everthing was in little bits.. the only aspects that got attention were him and vash goofing off and helping strangers... =\

also, I kinda "forced" myself to finish trigun in 2 marathons just to "get it over with." I didnt like the first several episodes and just wanted to finish the series to see what's all the hype about. So perhaps I wasn't really in to it in the first place.
 

neptunes

Member
just finished watching it.

Wolfwood's death was very sad, but not as sad as kenshin's death

what does the manga go over that the anime doesn't? (someone posted that the manga is still running?)
 

Chrono

Banned
neptunes said:
just finished watching it.

Wolfwood's death was very sad, but not as sad as kenshin's death

what does the manga go over that the anime doesn't? (someone posted that the manga is still running?)

I still have not opened my Kenshin boxset. -__-

:(
 

neptunes

Member
kenshin related below
but the manga's ending was so open (the creator liked happy endings) I liked the OVA's ending more, it just seemed more real and sad
 
neptunes said:
kenshin related below
but the manga's ending was so open (the creator liked happy endings) I liked the OVA's ending more, it just seemed more real and sad


yes but
I felt him actually going to war and even infecting Kaoru with an STD was really out of character its like they forgot about everything he learned throughout the series, first OVAs and manga.....i mean really do you think he would go off to a far away land to fight another war?
 

Ferrio

Banned
neptunes said:
just finished watching it.

Wolfwood's death was very sad, but not as sad as kenshin's death

what does the manga go over that the anime doesn't? (someone posted that the manga is still running?)


FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.

I thought this was trigun spoilers, but I get a facefull of something else that I just started watching.
 
Ferrio said:
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.

I thought this was trigun spoilers, but I get a facefull of something else that I just started watching.


Dont worry ferrerio its not part of the main anime series or manga. but yes it was a careless spoiler on neptune's part.
 
Ferrio said:
So it's past the Kyoto arc?


Its not even part of the anime or manga AT ALL. It was a sidestory type Ova that came out ac ouple fo years ago, it betrays the kenshin character completely but it is well done none the less. I dont think the creator was involved either.
 

Shouta

Member
In overall appeal, I liked Outlaw Star > Trigun > Bebop in that order personally.

Trigun does have a lot of guesswork involved and it has a lot more of a deeper meaning to it but I just couldn't stand the over-characterization of Vash in the latter half of the series. That ruined a far amount of the enjoyment for me. I liked Outlaw Star more on the whole although I do wish the ending wasn't so "WTF". As for Bebop, while I enjoy some of the episodes, there wasn't enough of content for me to enjoy by the end of the series and ultimately, I enjoyed Outlaw Star's episodic approach a bit more (even if it's a bit more formulaic anime).
 

Asbel

Member
neptunes said:
what does the manga go over that the anime doesn't? (someone posted that the manga is still running?)
Unless Nightow got to finishing it recently, it's still running. It's on it's 3rd season, Trigun: The Planet Gunsmoke right now. In the US, volume 1 of the 2nd season, Trigun Maximum is out. There's still a lot that's similar to the anime but there are interesting differences, such as the hole in the fifth moon but no fight with the samurai dude yet.
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
I posted a Trigun appreciation thread back on the old GAF. As a rule I'm not a terribly big anime fan, but Trigun is one of the most incredible media creations I've ever seen. A friend lent the DVDs to me and they consumed my life for about two weeks. Absolutely outstanding.

I'm not going to re-state all of the positive things about Trigun that so many others have already said so well, but I will say that I would really be interested in a Wolfwood side-story project. Not even a full-blown series...maybe just like five or six episodes detailing his life before he met up with Knives and Vash.
 

neptunes

Member
How did Vashe become such a skilled gunsmith? (was it from birth?)

EDIT: FERRIO i'm sorry, but I have a tip after you watch the Kyoto Arc do you self a favor and read the manga from where you left out. In the anime everything pats the kyoto arc pretty much sucks
 

Asbel

Member
neptunes said:
How did Vashe become such a skilled gunsmith? (was it from birth?)

EDIT: FERRIO i'm sorry, but I have a tip after you watch the Kyoto Arc do you self a favor and read the manga from where you left out. In the anime everything pats the kyoto arc pretty much sucks
Training. They showed it once in the anime and a second time in the manga thus far. Wolfwood seems to be on par with Vash as a gunfighter with Vash just having more years to train.

I'm waiting for the Kyoto arc in the manga myself. Should be soon now.
 
Asbel said:
Unless Nightow got to finishing it recently, it's still running. It's on it's 3rd season, Trigun: The Planet Gunsmoke right now. In the US, volume 1 of the 2nd season, Trigun Maximum is out. There's still a lot that's similar to the anime but there are interesting differences, such as the hole in the fifth moon but no fight with the samurai dude yet.

Not really seasons by any means - its just Nightow switching publishers. The severe differences in the manga and anime was a combination of Nightow dragging on and the animation company buying in too quickly - was Maximum even out at the time of the last Trigun episode airing?

And besides...

I thought Wolfwood doesn't die in the manga...?
 
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