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Truck plows into market in Berlin killing 12, injuring 48. Suspect shot dead in Italy

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C

Cub3h

Banned
According to the Guardian this is Trump's statement:

Our hearts and prayers are with the loved ones of the victims of today’s horrifying terror attack in Berlin. Innocent civilians were murdered in the streets as they prepared to celebrate the Christmas holiday.

Isis and other Islamist terrorists continually slaughter Christians in their communities and places of worship as part of their global jihad.

These terrorists and their regional and worldwide networks must be eradicated from the face of the earth, a mission we will carry out with all freedom-loving partners.
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Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
RinsFury said:
I'm sure he was just dancing at the chance to say that. Ugh.
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As much as I dislike Trump, what is so terrible about that statement? The Christian slant? Yeah, a bit of pandering to the American evangelicals. The rest of it? Anyone wants to give an inch to terrorism because of their hate of Trump?

He specifically says "Isis and Islamist terrorists". If anyone wants to twist that into some #notallmuslims that is pretty disgusting to lump Muslims in with Isis and Islamic Terrorists.

Boke1879 said:
I really just hate how that's framed. Islam against Christian. Isis doesn't care what religion you are.
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Really? Jews primarily, but any religion not Islam they most certainly do have a major fucking issue with. Hence all the infidel chatter and wishes for Sharia Law to rule the world.
 
K

Kathian

Banned
Tyaren said:
Welt.de says the driver, that they caught, came as a refugee in Febuary 2016 to Germany:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/live160453735/Lkw-Fahrer-soll-als-Fluechtling-nach-Deutschland-gekommen-sein.html
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Am not sure how current European policy can really continue. It's clearly ill advised. Single men especially appear to be real concerns. Germany's decision to open the door greatly underestimated numbers and overestimated their ability to police and control those refugees.

At this point European security seems to be based on the probability it won't be you whose murdered by the person you pass on be street.

They really need to get control. Kind of concerning that in a country as big as Germany there is seemingly only one mainstream politician really arenas a contender for leader. I suspect this is not completely true and in her coalition (if not her own party) she'll face a contender in the election.
 
D

Dalibor68

Banned
Boke1879 said:
I really just hate how that's framed. Islam against Christian. Isis doesn't care what religion you are.
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He clearly says "ISIS and other islamist terrorists ... in their global jihad" - I don't see what's wrong about that. In fact christians getting slaughtered, banished etc in the middle east is often overlooked still and just recently we had the attack on the coptic church with lots of people dead. But of course most of their victims are still other muslims.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Audioboxer said:
As much as I dislike Trump, what is so terrible about that statement? The Christian slant? Yeah, a bit of pandering to the American evangelicals. The rest of it? Anyone wants to give an inch to terrorism because of their hate of Trump?

He specifically says "Isis and Islamist terrorists". If anyone wants to twist that into some #notallmuslims that is pretty disgusting to lump Muslims in with Isis and Islamic Terrorists.



Really? Jews primarily, but any religion not Islam they most certainly do have a major fucking issue with. Hence all the infidel chatter.
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Well yea, but they really don't care. You even said it's pandering. I really don't have issue with the overall statement.
 
P

PBY

Banned
This is all so fucked man.

I want to have faith in humanity. I have no idea what the solution to this problem is.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
Audioboxer said:
As much as I dislike Trump, what is so terrible about that statement? The Christian slant? Yeah, a bit of pandering to the American evangelicals. The rest of it? Anyone wants to give an inch to terrorism because of their hate of Trump?

He specifically says "Isis and Islamist terrorists". If anyone wants to twist that into some #notallmuslims that is pretty disgusting to lump Muslims in with Isis and Islamic Terrorists.
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Because ISIS and the various Islamist groups and those inspired by them kill Muslims, Christians, Jews, straight, gay, black, white, brown... Framing this as solely Islamists vs Christians is dangerous and misleading, IMO, and I think it's more effective to recognise that their actions and methods end up targeting a far broader group.
 
K

Kathian

Banned
Boke1879 said:
I really just hate how that's framed. Islam against Christian. Isis doesn't care what religion you are.
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It's an attack clearly targeting a Christian holiday. I don't really mind it considering the utter vacuous silence in the West at the increasing hardship of Christians in the Middle East. Which the comment appears to be highlighting as well.
 
L

Lusankya

Member
Audioboxer said:
Really? Jews primarily, but any religion not Islam they most certainly do have a major fucking issue with. Hence all the infidel chatter and wishes for Sharia Law to rule the world.
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You do realize that most terror attacks take place in muslimic countries?
They basically hate everybody, including all normal muslims.
 
A

ant_

not characteristic of ants at all
Cosmonaut X said:
Because ISIS and the various Islamist groups and those inspired by them kill Muslims, Christians, Jews, straight, gay, black, white, brown... Framing this as solely Islamists vs Christians is dangerous and misleading.
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ISIS and Radical Islamists care what religion you are. It's not misleading. It's absolutely true and literally written in doctrine.

Yes, Muslims are a huge victim in their attacks. But to say that 'they don't care what religion you are' is wrong.
 
D

Dalibor68

Banned
Cosmonaut X said:
Because ISIS and the various Islamist groups and those inspired by them kill Muslims, Christians, Jews, straight, gay, black, white, brown... Framing this as solely Islamists vs Christians is dangerous and misleading.
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I mean most of the victims in europe probably are christian and this was an attack on a christmas market.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Boke1879 said:
Well yea, but they really don't care. You even said it's pandering. I really don't have issue with the overall statement.
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Trump is pandering. He will say America is a Christian nation. In terms of majority religions it still is. As are many Western countries.

Well, I still think Christianity is more popular than Catholicism in most. Italy would be an interesting stat, I think Catholicism has to be the majority religion there. Surely.

Your remark about Isis not caring is what I bolded as it is really untrue. They most certainly do care.

Cosmonaut X said:
Because ISIS and the various Islamist groups and those inspired by them kill Muslims, Christians, Jews, straight, gay, black, white, brown... Framing this as solely Islamists vs Christians is dangerous and misleading.
Click to expand...

Lusankya said:
You do realize that most terror attacks take place in muslimic countries?
They basically hate everybody, including all normal muslims.
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Yeah, sure. It doesn't make it an either/or. Isis routinely tell us how much they hate and want to kill infidels, whether it's Jews, Christians or Muslims who do not follow Islam the same way as they do. As I just said above Christianity just so happens to be the majority religion in most Western countries. As much as Trump is pandering, Germany for example is most likely predominantly Christian. I'll go check just now.

edit: Yeah as I thought

About 65% to 70% of the population are followers of the Christian religion in Germany. They are more or less evenly split between the mainstream denominations of Lutheran-Protestantism and Calvinism united in the EKD (Evangelical Church in Germany) and the Roman Catholic Church. Due to the historical development of religion in Germany, these denominations are concentrated in specific regions.
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https://www.internations.org/german...shopping-recreation/religion-in-germany-16010
 
Majukun

Majukun

Member
Kathian said:
It's an attack clearly targeting a Christian holiday. I don't really mind it considering the utter vacuous silence in the West at the increasing hardship of Christians in the Middle East. Which the comment appears to be highlighting as well.
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i don't think it was against xmas, it was just the place with the highest concentration of people , just like in FRance this summer
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
 
A

Aki-at

Member
Awful news, hope those injured aren't too badly hurt :(

Cosmonaut X said:
Because ISIS and the various Islamist groups and those inspired by them kill Muslims, Christians, Jews, straight, gay, black, white, brown... Framing this as solely Islamists vs Christians is dangerous and misleading.
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This was what I was going to add.

It doesn't matter if you're just Muslim to ISIS, you have to follow a very specific version of the religion to them or you're no better than a non believer to them, like Shia's would be killed by ISIS.
 
R

RinsFury

Member
SlimySnake said:
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
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What? No, just no. Don't give in to hate.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
ant_ said:
Yes, Muslims are a huge victim in their attacks. But to say that 'they don't care what religion you are' is wrong.
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More often than not, Islamist terrorists don't see their Muslim victims as "true" Muslims due to sectarian nonsense. Even then they do care about the religion and generally speaking about the ethnicity of their targets.
 
F

FroJay

Banned
SlimySnake said:
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
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1 million unvetted people into your country.....a recipe for disaster. What did they think was going to happen? This is going to continue to happen unless changes in policy are made in Europe.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
ant_ said:
ISIS and Radical Islamists care what religion you are. It's not misleading. It's absolutely true and literally written in doctrine.

Yes, Muslims are a huge victim in their attacks. But to say that 'they don't care what religion you are' is wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying they don't care; I'm saying that presenting this as Islamists vs Christianity plays into their hands, and I think it's more effective (and reflects the range of people their ideology and actions affects) to frame their attacks and the attacks of those inspired by them in a different way.
 
P

PBY

Banned
SlimySnake said:
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
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You're right, we do need a muslim registry. Time to give the other guys a chance. Come on.
 
P

paperboywriter

Member
SlimySnake said:
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
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merkel and obama are left wing. fucking lol what are you on about
 
B

Boke1879

Member
SlimySnake said:
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
Click to expand...

It's thoughts like this that lead to registries for people.
 
R

rdytoroll

Member
Tyaren said:
Welt.de says the driver, that they caught, came as a refugee in Febuary 2016 to Germany:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/live160453735/Lkw-Fahrer-soll-als-Fluechtling-nach-Deutschland-gekommen-sein.html
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If this is true... He really showed his gratitude for us letting him in. At this point I'm just angry. Angry that my country, but also France and Belgium show so much hospitality and this is what we get in return. Bad apples and all, blah, blah. Something has to change, this refugee policy/situation can't be repeated next summer. I wasn't a fan of it this year, but it will only get worse in the long term too with climate change and all that.

Not going to write more on this. Fuck

RIP to the victims, nobody deserves to die like this.
 
M

michaelius

Banned
ant_ said:
ISIS and Radical Islamists care what religion you are. It's not misleading. It's absolutely true and literally written in doctrine.

Yes, Muslims are a huge victim in their attacks. But to say that 'they don't care what religion you are' is wrong.
Click to expand...

Well he is also partially right - they will happily murder anyone who isn't part of their sect.
 
K

Kathian

Banned
Majukun said:
i don't think it was against xmas, it was just the place with the highest concentration of people , just like in FRance this summer
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You mean the Nice attack? The attack targeting a French national holiday celebrating events that are hugely prevalent in modern French nationality.

I think it's less about Christianity than it is about attacking cultural targets but clearly Christmas and thus Christianity is being targeted here.
 
T

TyrantII

Member
Audioboxer said:
Really? Jews primarily, but any religion not Islam they most certainly do have a major fucking issue with. Hence all the infidel chatter and wishes for Sharia Law to rule the world.
Click to expand...

I don't think 2.2 billion people think everyone else is a Infidel or want Sharia Law. Probably best not to make generalities that lump people into tribalistic blocks, since doing so tends to push away natural allies.

There's a reason why ISIS and Islamists WANT this to become a Christian vs Islam holy war. Cause their leaders are a lot fucking smarter than chest thumping tough guys on the internet and know that sort of framing will be beneficial to their goals.

After all, a few hundred thousand people in third world countries can't take down the US, Russia, or the EU. Their only chance is to provoke us to do it to ourselves by asemetrical warfare that provokes irrational self harm.

They know their history. Us in the first world have decided to forget.
 
G

Garrett Hawke

Member
SlimySnake said:
I can't believe i am saying this but maybe trump is who we need. Obama punted this for far too long and Merkel let a million people in without vetting them. Left wing governments have failed their citizens. Time to give the other guys a chance.
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Merkel is leader of a centre right party.
 
H

haveheart

Banned
Stop this stupid religion debate. Isis are sunni terrorists that use religion as an instrument to manipulate people and justify their acts. This isn't islam vs christianity. If you truly believe that's what it's about, isis and guys like Trump habe achieved exactly what they want. This is terrorists vs the Western world.
 
D

Dalibor68

Banned
TyrantII said:
I don't think 2.2 billion people think everyone else is a Infidel or want Sharia Law. Probably best not to make generalities that lump people into tribalistic blocks, since doing so tends to push away natural allies.
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Where do you get the 2.2billion people from? He was talking about ISIS & co

Garrett Hawke said:
Merkel is leader of a centre right party.
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CDU/Merkel, while still ofcourse not "leftwing", definitely moved towards the left in recent years.
 
Majukun

Majukun

Member
Kathian said:
You mean the Nice attack? The attack targeting a French national holiday celebrating events that are hugely prevalent in modern French nationality.

I think it's less about Christianity than it is about attacking cultural targets but clearly Christmas and thus Christianity is being targeted here.
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not to be morbid here,but if i choose this kind of terrorist attack,all i'm looking for is a place where there are a lot of people packed in a clean straight line..that's probably all the motives they had to target Nice or today that xmas market in berlin..they are just trying to make as much damage as possible
 
S

sanstesy

Member
The refugee crisis only got worse if that is even possible. And it most likely won't get better anytime soon.

I wouldn't want to be in a politician's shoes these coming years. There are no good answers nor solutions to the problems occurring at the moment.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
rdytoroll said:
If this is true... He really showed his gratitude for us letting him in. At this point I'm just angry. Angry that my country, but also France and Belgium show so much hospitality and this is what we get in return. Bad apples and all, blah, blah. Something has to change, this refugee policy/situation can't be repeated next summer. I wasn't a fan of it this year, but it will only get worse in the long term too with climate change and all that.

Not going to write more on this. Fuck

RIP to the victims, nobody deserves to die like this.
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If true he is just another terrorist abusing the arguably too open of a door policy enacted by your government. The answer to this isn't to career off the deep end at the other end of the spectrum and do some "shut the borders", but be honest about the potential realities of bringing in masses of people unregulated from societies that may hold beliefs conflicting with your own society. It may mean a slower but steady stream of refugees as vetting takes time and effort, but it's a better balance of humanitarian aid/help then just carelessly letting in thousands at a time without any questioning at all. Germany has already had issues with sexual assaults and immigrants abusing the migrant crisis.
 
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