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[Dalibor68]

So it's OK to have people subject to violence like Hungary did?

What violence exactly? Hungary did what they were and are obligated to do as an eu member state with outer EU borders. Look up the videos of refugees trying to storm the border, throwing burning debris and rocks at police. This is not some one-sided thing. As for human rights violations in certain camps (as in having very shitty living standards and supplies), I'm sure there's truth to it and it can and should be criticized. As even the left-wing austrian chancellor admitted, without Hungary fulfilling their eu border duties the situation would(ve been) a lot worse for the following countries.

Unless you view people dying at the border as a problem. But its brown people, so, meh...

I wish we could stop with the strawmen already.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

And Damn if they arrested he Pakistani dude as a mistake this has to be a terrible day for him.

Its frustrating because the news is always so impatient to spread the name of the potential perpetrator but it really shouldn't be allowed before someone has been charged otherwise it'll follow them for the rest of their lives.

 

[ittoryu]

What violence exactly? Hungary did what they were and are obligated to do as an eu member state with outer EU borders. Look up the videos of refugees trying to storm the border, throwing burning debris and rocks at police. This is not some one-sided thing. As for human rights violations in certain camps (as in having very shitty living standards and supplies), I'm sure there's truth to it and it can and should be criticized.

You did answer your own question.
Isn't that a form of violence?

 

[Django.Mango]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe#Trend

Yes, the media coverage (twitter, facebook etc) is a lot faster and "louder" these days, so it feels like it is more than ever.

For germany its a new situation, as there have only been amateurish (thank god) attemps to fuck something up like yesterday.

 

[El Topo]

For germany its a new situation, as there have only been amateurish (thank god) attemps to fuck something up like yesterday.

Amateurish attempts by IS. There have been well-executed acts of terror in Germany before, e.g. NSU or RAF.

 

[Kinyou]

Its frustrating because the news is always so impatient to spread the name of the potential perpetrator but it really shouldn't be allowed before someone has been charged otherwise it'll follow them for the rest of their lives.

Has the news spread his name? Afaik is Germany usually concernced with the privacy of accused.

 

[Audioboxer]

Its frustrating because the news is always so impatient to spread the name of the potential perpetrator but it really shouldn't be allowed before someone has been charged otherwise it'll follow them for the rest of their lives.

That is why it is stated they have a suspect in custody. While it's horrible if they got this wrong there is nothing wrong with reporting the facts at the time they are put out. Police did/do have a suspect, and I presume through interrogation they are now questioning whether he is the right person.

Has the news spread his name? Afaik is Germany usually concernced with the privacy of accused.

Not that I can see which is how it should be when someone is in preliminary stages of interrogation.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Unless you view people dying at the border as a problem. But its brown people, so, meh...
Closing the borders is not a solution, its just a way to ignore the problem.
Refugees won't disappear because you close the border.
And what about border countries like Italy or Greece? Should they continue to save people or just let them die? Because once you save them you have to take them in.

You've basically managed to reach the answer here.

As for Italy and Greece, they shouldn't have been allowed in the Schengen area if they couldn't secure their external borders. I guess hindsight is 20/20 but it really seems like the Schengen should have started small and added one country at a time after a long term assessment of their capabilities to ensure a proper external border. Maybe just start with Benelux and then add one or two at a time after several years.

I don't know why there was such a rush with this. Same as the Euro. Almost feels as if the idea was to purposely over-extend, wait for the inevitable "crisis" and then use that as justification for the EU to centralise power over the member states. It seems to be working, both on territorial integrity and the economies of Schengen / Eurozone states.

 

[Aztechnology]

Its frustrating because the news is always so impatient to spread the name of the potential perpetrator but it really shouldn't be allowed before someone has been charged otherwise it'll follow them for the rest of their lives.

They reported his name? Wow, I would sue for damages. That will haunt him for a long time.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Another thread title change?

Thought it was the guy from Pakistan?

 

[Weckum]

They reported his name? Wow, I would sue for damages. That will haunt him for a long time.

I don't think it was in this case.

 

[Django.Mango]

Amateurish attempts by IS. There have been well-executed acts of terror in Germany before, e.g. NSU or RAF.

Yes, sorry for that inaccuracy. I meant relevant to is-terror.

 

[DieNgamers]

Yes, the media coverage (twitter, facebook etc) is a lot faster and "louder" these days, so it feels like it is more than ever.

For germany its a new situation, as there have only been amateurish (thank god) attemps to fuck something up like yesterday.

It wasn't that amateurish, though. The execution was rough and the outcome may not be exactly as bad in numbers as Nice, for example but in this country Christmas Markets are pretty huge for most people. I never liked them but it's definitely part of the culture and they cut right through it for maximum attention. Fuckers!

 

[wesleyshark]

Another thread title change?

Thought it was the guy from Pakistan?

They aren't sure if it's right guy. Actual driver might still be on the run.

 

[ittoryu]

You've basically managed to reach the answer here.

As for Italy and Greece, they shouldn't have been allowed in the Schengen area if they couldn't secure their external borders. I guess hindsight is 20/20 but it really seems like the Schengen should have started small and added one country at a time after a long term assessment of their capabilities to ensure a proper external border. Maybe just start with Benelux and then add one or two at a time after several years.

I don't know why there was such a rush with this. Same as the Euro. Almost feels as if the idea was to purposely over-extend, wait for the inevitable "crisis" and then use that as justification for the EU to centralise power over the member states. It seems to be working, both on territorial integrity and the economies of Schengen / Eurozone states.

Could you please explain how Italy would be able to "secure their external border"?
How can you secure all your external border, being a country that is more than 80% surrounded by the sea?

I am really curious.

 

[Ruuppa]

Rest in peace. Horrible damn thing.

 

[E-phonk]

As for Italy and Greece, they shouldn't have been allowed in the Schengen area if they couldn't secure their external borders. I guess hindsight is 20/20 but it really seems like the Schengen should have started small and added one country at a time after a long term assessment of their capabilities to ensure a proper external border. Maybe just start with Benelux and then add one or two at a time after several years.

A sea border is a lot harder to protect. What should they do, have a trump like wall that goes in front of the beach? And you also can't push people back into the sea.

 

[Dalibor68]

Could you please explain how Italy would be able to "secure their external border"?
How can you secure all your external border, being a country that is more than 80% surrounded by the sea?

I am really curious.

How do other countries do it?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Could you please explain how Italy would be able to "secure their external border"?
How can you secure all your external border, being a country that is more than 80% surrounded by the sea?

I am really curious.

I'm in a country 100% surrounded by sea, and we seem to manage.

 

[Aztechnology]

I don't think it was in this case.

I hope that's the case. Nobody should have to be labeled as guilty by media or anybody else until they are proven guilty of a crime. Doing otherwise invites all kinds of chaos.

 

[Django.Mango]

It wasn't that amateurish, though. The execution was rough and the outcome may not be exactly as bad in numbers as Nice, for example but in this country Christmas Markets are pretty huge for most people. I never liked them but it's definitely part of the culture and they cut right through it for maximum attention. Fuckers!

No no, the early foiled attemps i was talking about.

Im no native english speaker, so maybe ill check my vocabulary for sensitive themes like this to avoid misunderstandings.

 

[E-phonk]

I'm in a country 100% surrounded by sea, and we seem to manage.

The UK is in a completely different location and situation, and you know that well enough. And even then we know how many illegal immigrants get in through the few possible ways of entry the UK has.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

As for Italy and Greece, they shouldn't have been allowed in the Schengen area if they couldn't secure their external borders.

Sure they could, but it comes at the cost of human lives.

 

[Media]

So he's still at large? Fuck that's scary. Stay safe Germany.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I wish we could stop with the strawmen already.

How is that a strawman? Thats literally the other option.
Either you take them in, or let them die out in the sea. There is zero percent chance they make it back alive.

 

[Dalibor68]

Sure they could, but it comes at the cost of human lives.

What would your overall solution be?

(the strawman part was about the "brown people" as you said, bringing in race where it wasnt even touched by anyone at all)

 

[Shredderi]

These will never stop happening. It is disheartening beyond words. Big tough guys killing unsuspecting civilians. Will do wonders for the far right movement no doubt and make things even worse for refugees and immigrants etc.

 

[ClosingADoor]

How is that a strawman? Thats literally the other option.
Either you take them in, or let them die out in the sea. There is zero percent chance they make it back alive.

It is not as black and white as letting everyone in or letting them die. You can do a lot to prevent unwanted immigration, such as having more efficient processing, not letting them walk free through the whole continent, quick deportations, not giving money, and probably more.

People want to help refugees, but not in unchecked and unlimited numbers, and not people from safe countries that pretend to be a refugee.

 

[Violet_0]

okay, so from the latest Spiegel article:

the Pakistani suspect might not be the perpetrator. The Polish man in the truck was likely killed with a gun, but they couldn't find traces of gun powder on the suspect. The man says he did not have anything to do with the attack. They caught him after someone followed him several kilometres from the scene of the attack, but it's unclear if he was actually in or driving the truck. They are now waiting for a DNA test

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Has the news spread his name? Afaik is Germany usually concernced with the privacy of accused.

Yeah his first name is out. Sucks to be him if it turns out he's just another victim.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The UK is in a completely different location and situation, and you know that well enough. And even then we know how many illegal immigrants get in through the few possible ways of entry the UK has.

Alright, you know how right at the moment we have border guards in Calais checking lorries, and fences around the ports and tunnels? Say we just got rid of all that, and Theresa May made a public announcement saying "Undocumented migrants are welcome in the UK. Come one, come all! Get here by hook or by crook!"

Do you think we would have:

i) More illegal immigrants; or
ii) Fewer illegal immigrants?

 

[| Praxis |]

Reading Twitter is so depressing, any feeling of hope is extinguished in a matter of minutes. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal or anything but the amount of hatred, conspiracy theories and downright idiocracy is sad.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

okay, so from the latest Spiegel article:

the Pakistani suspect might not be the perpetrator. The Polish man in the truck was likely killed with a gun, but they couldn't find traces of gun powder on the suspect. The man says he did not have anything to do with the attack. They caught him after someone followed him for several kilometres from the scene of the attack, but it's unclear if he was actually in or driving the truck. They are now waiting for a DNA test

So if this is true and he is innocent, someone just followed and implicated a brown guy because...that's who matched their stereotype of who they think did it?

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm in a country 100% surrounded by sea, and we seem to manage.

While the UK is an island the distance to travel across water is not that much from mainland Europe. Sure it still offers the UK a bit of resistance to people just hammering your borders and coming in on mass, but it's not the same as say the US which has a hell of a lot of water between itself and mainland Europe.

On a related note maybe it's for the best, can you imagine the masses of refugees with the individuals causing harm Germany and France have seen with the masses of guns America has kicking around? Orlando was a sad reminder of how easy access to high powered guns equals mass causality. In saying that though America does a fine job outside Islamic terrorism of seeing gun deaths. If children can get gunned down and a country still wet itself in excitement to protect the 2nd amendment it is sad times for the hopes of gun law reformers.

So if this is true and he is innocent, someone just followed and implicated a brown guy because...that's who matched their stereotype of who they think did it?

Paint that scenario to get the outrage out asap why don't you? How about waiting for more details. If someone flees the scene of the crime and runs as far as this suspect did it is behaviour at least worth reporting. It's up to the police to take all reports seriously, and if someone isn't guilty then they go free? I'm sure the families of those who are dead or injured would want the police to take all reports seriously in order to try and catch whoever did this.

 

[El Topo]

Yes, sorry for that inaccuracy. I meant relevant to is-terror.

No problem and no need to apologize. I thought so, but wanted to highlight that in principle Germany has experienced organized terror. It has been quite some time though (and NSU was only uncovered afterwards), so your statement would not really have been inappropriate anyway.

 

[ittoryu]

I'm in a country 100% surrounded by sea, and we seem to manage.

I am in your same country.

Are you actually saying that the situation, geographical location and background of UK are the same as the Italian one?
Because your answer is, frankly, nonsense.

 

[Oersted]

So if this is true and he is innocent, someone just followed and implicated a brown guy because...that's who matched their stereotype of who they think did it?

Could be. We don't know in any case. Lets just wait what the police says, we can't do anything anyway besides sticking to what they say.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

So if this is true and he is innocent, someone just followed and implicated a brown guy because...that's who matched their stereotype of who they think did it?

Possibly but perhaps we should not jump to conclusions until the situation has been resolved.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

They aren't sure if it's right guy. Actual driver might still be on the run.

I hope they catch this prick soon then.

 

[Tk0n]

Alright, you know how right at the moment we have border guards in Calais checking lorries, and fences around the ports and tunnels? Say we just got rid of all that, and Theresa May made a public announcement saying "Undocumented migrants are welcome in the UK. Come one, come all! Get here by hook or by crook!"

Do you think we would have:

i) More illegal immigrants; or
ii) Fewer illegal immigrants?

you can keep your border and build a wall around your island.
a large part of the residents of continental europe prefers to move freely.
germany has had enough of walls, thank you.

as a european, born behind a closed border, i have to say that schengen is one of the best things in europe today. ofcourse it has drawbacks but "freedom isnt free".

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Paint that scenario to get the outrage out asap why don't you? How about waiting for more details. If someone flees the scene of the crime and runs as far as this suspect did it is behaviour at least worth reporting.

Yes, let's wait for more details like the majority of the news organisations, this thread and the internet in general.

Of all the people who ran from the attack, why was this one guy followed and arrested? He was acting suspiciously running for his life after an attack. How dare he run,the cunt, doesn't he know his skin colour means he has stand still so he's not implicated.

Fuck outta here with your bullshit.

 

[Oersted]

Possibly but perhaps we should not jump to conclusions until the situation has been resolved.

A bit late for that lol. But would be nice if we start now.

 

[bidguy]

Paint that scenario to get the outrage out asap why don't you? How about waiting for more details. If someone flees the scene of the crime and runs as far as this suspect did it is behaviour at least worth reporting. It's up to the police to take all reports seriously, and if someone isn't guilty then they go free? I'm sure the families of those who are dead or injured would want the police to take all reports seriously in order to try and catch whoever did this.

people generally run from dangerous situations

 

[jorma]

I'm in a country 100% surrounded by sea, and we seem to manage.

To be fair, that's probably mostly because the hordes of frankish, norse and dane migrants have figured out that they're better off where they already are...

 

[purdobol]

Could you please explain how Italy would be able to "secure their external border"?
How can you secure all your external border, being a country that is more than 80% surrounded by the sea?

I am really curious.

Oh come on now. We're not talking about migrants that use high tech ships or submarines to cross the border here. And nobody will convince me that Italy or Greece does not have enough naval presence there, to not being able detect illegal crossings. Not to mention that they can ask any other country in EU for support in the matter. Which I presume EU would gladly provide.

The problem lies in the law, and the fact that right now border guards serve as a transport frigate for those illegal migrants.

Protecting sea border is not impossible task.

 

[E-phonk]

Alright, you know how right at the moment we have border guards in Calais checking lorries, and fences around the ports and tunnels? Say we just got rid of all that, and Theresa May made a public announcement saying "Undocumented migrants are welcome in the UK. Come one, come all! Get here by hook or by crook!"

I live on the other side of the pond (Belgium) - we don't have walls/tunnels/fances with neither France, Germany, Luxemburg or the Netherlands.

 

[Dalibor68]

you can keep your border and build a wall around your island.
a large part of the residents of continental europe prefers to move freely.
germany has had enough of walls, thank you.

as a european, born behind a closed border, i have to say that schengen is one of the best things in europe today. ofcourse it has drawbacks but "freedom isnt free".

I live on the other side of the pond (Belgium) - we don't have walls/tunnels/fances with neither France, Germany, Luxemburg or the Netherlands.

Confusing interior and exterior borders

Also the UK isnt part of Schengen

 

[Violet_0]

Yes, let's wait for more details like the majority of the news organisations, this thread and the internet in general.

Of all the people who ran from the attack, why was this one guy followed and arrested? He was acting suspiciously running for his life after an attack. How dare he run,the cunt, doesn't he know his skin colour means he has stand still so he's not implicated.

Fuck outta here with your bullshit.

well, the person who followed and reported him could have also witnessed him jumping out of the truck. We really don't know at the moment

 

[Audioboxer]

Yes, let's wait for more details like the majority of the news organisations, this thread and the internet in general.

Of all the people who ran from the attack, why was this one guy followed and arrested? He was acting suspiciously running for his life after an attack. How dare he run,the cunt, doesn't he know his skin colour means he has stand still so he's not implicated.

Fuck outta here with your bullshit.

Jump to conclusions mat? You are telling everyone to wait for more information yet have already made it up in your mind the person who called the police is a racist, and the police are only following this up because "brown skin"?

As I said, take your own advice and don't start the virtue signaling outrage just yet.

people generally run from dangerous situations

Run for 20 minutes and hide? Maybe, but the initial reports said the person was found hiding 20 minutes travelling distance from the original scene of the crime. It was at least worth reporting is my point. It's up to the police to interrogate suspects and try to find who done this.

 

[Kinyou]

Yes, let's wait for more details like the majority of the news organisations, this thread and the internet in general.

Of all the people who ran from the attack, why was this one guy followed and arrested? He was acting suspiciously running for his life after an attack. How dare he run,the cunt, doesn't he know his skin colour means he has stand still so he's not implicated.

Fuck outta here with your bullshit.

We don't know why he was followed.