In a lot of cases that is simply not true. Having spoken to actual police and a dentist who does some sort of dental age testing procedure, a lot of them fake their age so they are underage and thus do not get higher sentences if convicted. I also know second-hand(from my fathers' partner who's a middle school teacher) that there are even a lot of cases in schools where you have boys sitting in the class which are obviously 18+ but are officially 14 in their documentation (and again born on 1.1.) and you basically can't do anything unless they become criminal and get their age tested.
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Truck plows into market in Berlin killing 12, injuring 48. Suspect shot dead in Italy
- Thread starter Ensirius
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In a lot of cases that is simply not true. Having spoken to actual police and a dentist who does some sort of dental age testing procedure, a lot of them fake their age so they are underage and thus do not get higher sentences if convicted. I also know second-hand(from my fathers' partner who's a middle school teacher) that there are even a lot of cases in schools where you have boys sitting in the class which are obviously 18+ but are officially 14 in their documentation (and again born on 1.1.) and you basically can't do anything unless they become criminal and get their age tested.
Audioboxer
Member
Damn that is horrific. I hadn't heard of it. Thankfully I just read it didn't go through. What I will say though is
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/16/boy-12-attempted-blow-nail-bomb-german-christmas-market/amp/
My points still stand it is not something that happens often. No surprise though to read about the children's parents religion of following... Talk about indoctrination and abuse of a young mind.
DieNgamers
Member
Given that the original driver was shot and every official talks of an attack we can accept that this wasn't an accident, right? Time for a thread title change.
This was a delibertate attack on poor and innocent people. It was expected but I'm mad right now. I hate it, those bastards aren't doing anything for anyone.
I can almost hear racists screaming at random "eastern looking" citizens in the streets again (happened after Paris). We have immigrant friends or even family members ("in law") so this will probably be a problem. I hope that everyone stays level-headed and realize that not Merkel or the refugees did this...but one of them. There are problems to be tackeled in the future but intolerance or hate isn't going to do anything.
This was a delibertate attack on poor and innocent people. It was expected but I'm mad right now. I hate it, those bastards aren't doing anything for anyone.
I can almost hear racists screaming at random "eastern looking" citizens in the streets again (happened after Paris). We have immigrant friends or even family members ("in law") so this will probably be a problem. I hope that everyone stays level-headed and realize that not Merkel or the refugees did this...but one of them. There are problems to be tackeled in the future but intolerance or hate isn't going to do anything.
GlamFM
Banned
It´s not to avoid higher sentences if convicted - it´s to make it harder to be deported again.
Understandably so. Germany has just started to deport refugees to Afghanistan - because supposedly it´s a safe country now....
Scary stuff. The timing of the attack seems perfectly timed to bring fear of terrorism in many people's hearts with the holiday season.
Glad my right-wing government is committed to restrictive immigration. Open borders policies have failed completely and are only creating a time-bomb of integration troubles later down the road. Left-wing parties need to adapt to this new reality or be left out in the cold. People "on the streets" don't take the usual old rhetoric anymore.
Glad my right-wing government is committed to restrictive immigration. Open borders policies have failed completely and are only creating a time-bomb of integration troubles later down the road. Left-wing parties need to adapt to this new reality or be left out in the cold. People "on the streets" don't take the usual old rhetoric anymore.
It is both.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
People did that a lot in Germany. Its just that many European countries did not give any fucks, so there never was a debate.
I also don't think the situation got out of hand at any point in time.
Then you must be living in a different universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUdUkKH3J7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqRY8T-Mr50
Add the scenes on the serbian/croatian border, greek/macedonian border, highways being unusable and people endangered because masses walked on them towards the north etc
ClosingADoor
Member
Depends on the region they are being sent back to. You have to draw a line somewhere. I can understand people wanting to get into the EU, but it does not mean we should accept people breaking the rules.
We had that discussion before a couple of times. But the refugee crisis just added to already existing problems of course, which in my view already got to the point that something needs to be done. Yet again and again our politicians either look the other way, refuse to listen to what people want and don't give the necessary tools and resources to the agencies handling these issues. From integration to police.
If you don't think things got out of hand, what do we call the recent pattern of terrorist attacks, the troubles surrounding asylum centers and events like in Cologne last year?
Why are these people free to walk the streets if they can't even follow the rules and laws within the first months of being here.
This press conference by the interiour minister leaves a sad image of German asylum policy.
The suspect:
- 23 year old from Pakistan
- has been in Germany for a year
- did not even have his asylum interview yet (didn't appear once, didn't have a translator another time)
- does apparently have a criminal record already
Pretty ridiculous.
The suspect:
- 23 year old from Pakistan
- has been in Germany for a year
- did not even have his asylum interview yet (didn't appear once, didn't have a translator another time)
- does apparently have a criminal record already
Pretty ridiculous.
Audioboxer
Member
The onus is on other countries as well, not just Germany. Many countries around the areas of conflict take in zero or next to no refugees. Instead of calling your own country a piece of shit for trying to sensibly help whilst still caring for its own people, focus ire on the bordering nations who refuse to help any or very few refugees. So many of these people shouldn't be needing to try and travel halfway around the world. With the amount of oil wealthy countries doing nothing we have to call them out too. However as we know many of these rich nations are authoritarian pits of despair themselves who routinely abuse their poor and needy anyway.
cyberheater
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1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Thats just incompetence because politicians tried to ignore the problem until the very last second.
Its not like any country was unable to handle, its that they didn't want to handle it.
Seriously, what did politicians expect to happen? It was obvious that people were coming, it was obvious that you can't send them back, it was obvious that there was no infrastructure to have them in a camp and then send them to different countries.
Did they expect these people to just disappear at some point?
This is the incompetence people should be mad about, not Merkels actions to prevent the worst.
If people don't want and uncontrolled streams of refugees they should have set up infrastructure to control the refugee streams. Some countries tried to talk about this months before shit hit the fan, but most of Europe thought that ignoring the problem is the way to go. They have no right to complain now.
The recent terror attacks were mostly carried out by people who lived in Europe and radicalized here. Why would that make us view the refugee situation differently?
And crime happens, that doesn't mean that "things got out of hand".
ClosingADoor
Member
For the Syria conflict, the border countries there are letting in millions of people already. I'm just frustrated with the whole process in the EU. We have the UN running refugee camps there, they have the tools and knowledge of what to do. So why not work with them to handle this situation and help people, instead of going our own way with less efficient results.
You are aware that for Germany, Merkel is in charge of that incompetency right?
Or maybe Germany isn't somehow the holy instance of brave morals and should have maybe asked the 27 other EU countries what they want to do before reinforcing the signal of "everybody who reaches european ground gets a free ticket to Austria/Germany/Sweden". People will not stop coming unless arriving doesn't automatically mean you get to stay, period. It's not rocket science. If arriving illegally in europe means you get sent back / to an island camp until your status is determined then many wouldn't take the deadly trip over the mediterranian anymore.
Is this a rhetorical question?
Salty Rice
Member
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah you are right I was more alluding to this
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/02/syrias-refugee-crisis-in-numbers/
German media (Welt & N24)reports that berlin police thinks they caught the wrong person
http://to.welt.de/jwZtO0P
Suspect still at large according to them
http://to.welt.de/jwZtO0P
Suspect still at large according to them
lemmykoopa
Junior Member
Wait, so the Polish truck driver was shot and killed by the perp? Scary to think how easy it was for a refugee to obtain a gun.
Holy shit if this is true.
Imp the Dimp
Member
what the hell
Super_Cobra
Member
ClosingADoor
Member
I can not hold the leader of the largest EU country responsible for incompetence surrounding this situation in both her own country and the EU? You can not just cherry pick what you want to hold someone accountable for if they are in charge.
His Majesty
Banned
The blame lies with the politicians who ignored the problem for too long but somehow Merkel, the leader of Germany for the last 11 years, is exempt from the same blame?
Could you expand on your reasoning because I am not following.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Focus is also quoting the police saying that they got the wrong man. I've updated the thread title.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Thats basically all Merkel and others did from late 2014 till mid 2015.
But nobody wanted to do anything. Nobody wanted to work on a solution. They wanted to ignore the problem.
Nah, people came without even knowing anything. The outlook to be sent back or in a camp won't deter anyone.
What is she supposed to do when nobody wants to help working on solutions?
Of course you can and you should. But you can not look at Merkels (forced) decision and ignore the other countries in that given context.
If there is a real problem right at your borders and most countries decide to follow the way of the coward then it is kinda obvious that it will be harder to solve this issue by the remaining countries.
Ignoring a problem won't solve it and at some point it became clear that there was no "good solution" left to this problem after the other countries backed out.
It's just too easy to put the whole blame onto a single person instead of looking at the given context. People act like Merkel went into some kind of holy samaritan mode but in fact she went for the only possible solution that was left after most countries backed out and tried to ignore everything. Yet somehow people tend to put all blame onto her alone.
tl;dr: one gets it because he's looking at the whole situation and both sides in its given context.
ClosingADoor
Member
I missed Merkel screaming from the rooftops about fixing this situation for the past years while everybody looked the other way. Did most of Europe ignore (and continue to do so) the situation Greece and Italy are in? Yes, absolutely. But I am not going to somehow give Merkel a pass on this.
But Germany also ignored this problem until that moment. Just because after that she let in many people, I am not giving her a pass on earlier incompetence, and incompetence with the situation after that moment.
People like you.. i don't like you. You take yourself the right to judge if an opinion is right or not.
I'm open enough to say i can fathom both sides and their views. Everyone involved has blood on their hands.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
There was writing on the wall since 2011, Merkel is guilt of ignoring these warnings, too.
But at some point Merkel decided that actions must be taken, while most other European leaders are still trying to ignore the problem.
And the same thing is happening again btw.
Algerias leader is old and sick, when he dies its expected that radical islamists take over power which could lead to up to 15 mil people fleeing the country.
Is anyone preparing? Fuck no.
Also simply incorrect. Most other states don't want to be forced to take people of which a big part isn't even actual refugees but economic migrants. Then many refugees don't want to go anywhere other than Austria/Germany/Sweden as has been shown again and again (like France and Portugal offering to take up to 6000 extra refugees but nobody applying; or the 160.000 as a whole of which how many exactly have been placed?). So yes, one or two EU member states' leaders essentially deciding for everybody else and drastically strengthening the pull signals is indeed incompetence.
That's simply wrong as the australian model has shown. It would decrease a lot.
Damn, if true
Always-honest
Banned
Still at large? Shiiiiit.
You must not have been listening, because she absolutely did scream from the rooftops in the diplomatic sense:
https://www.google.se/search?q=Merk...droid-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
What does that mean?
shira
Member
Imp the Dimp
Member
They got the wrong guy. Perp likely hiding somewhere.
ClosingADoor
Member
Those articles are from late 2015 already while the crisis was under way. The other posters implied that Merkel was doing this long before that, which I haven't seen.
Intelligence agencies and special operations are now searching for the perp.
Considering it happened in downtown Berlin they probably have him on CCTV.
As in the 23 year old Pakistani isn't the guy, or they arrested the wrong guy thinking it was him?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
They arrested the wrong person. It's not clear if they just nabbed somebody else thinking it was the suspect or if the suspect is a different person yet to be identified, as far as I can read.
as in the 23 year old pakistani isnt the guy.
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