-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Truck plows into market in Berlin killing 12, injuring 48. Suspect shot dead in Italy
- Thread starter Ensirius
- Start date
- Status
Audioboxer
Member
They would probably do it anyway, but still, as always intelligence agencies need to take such claims as valid in order to see if the attacker does indeed have direct ties and will that help identify them.
of course they do. It doesn't matter if they actually had anything to do with it.
almost 24h later? seem like we don't know who did but better claim it anyways
Phantast2k
Member
Oh wow, first time I see these Amaq msgs in German:
Pretty unsettling.
Pretty unsettling.
Audioboxer
Member
Oh wow, first time I see these Amaq msgs in German:
Pretty unsettling.
What is that? ISIS network posting in German?
Phantast2k
Member
Yeah, it's mostly spread through telegram and apparently an app they've created themselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaq_News_Agency
maniac-kun
Member
I hope 2017 will be their last year.
Audioboxer
Member
Well they also claim responsibility if the attacker was simply found to sympathize with them. Therefore they aren't always involved, at times it is lonewolf attacks merely inspired by them.
The attacker here hasn't been identified, let alone killed and/or interrogated, so that is why anyone should take ISIS claims as unproven for now.
Jeez that is unsettling. Always used to seeing Arabic, not native tongue of the country the attack took place in.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
ISIS have called on people to make attacks like this. They'd claim responsibility whether they were directly involved or not.
They always claim responsibility every single time even if they didn't have anything to do with it directly so it's not telling anything new yet.
They've done it in French and I think Dutch as well after the attacks in Brussels. It's not that weird, seeing that they have people from all over Europe.
Anyway, as is mentioned, they were gonna claim this anyway.
Audioboxer
Member
It just makes it feel like ISIS are in your home, not just tucked away in some remote location with groups of their attack dogs infiltrating every so often. I'd also think they'd be rigid as to not speak in anything other than their mother tongue, but I guess at the end of the day they are chasing recruitment and sympathizers, and very few know Arabic in most European countries. There is also the large element of disgust of seeing such cretins speak your countries native language whilst posting propaganda against you.
They seem to claim attacks done by lone wolf jihadists, like Orlando. But I don't think they claim any and every attack. I don't think they claimed the Munich shooting, for example. The fact that they claimed this attack before we knew anything about the motive makes me think it's genuine. And it's not like ISIS doesn't have operators in Germany, so it's not really surprising. Could still be false, ofc
They have been fairly consistent in what they claim. Depending on the language you can even see if it is one of their real soldiers like Paris or Brussels or someone that pledged to them through video. Even the timing is fairly consistent since they screwed up on the Paris message where they accidentally confirmed one of the bombers ran.
superdeluxe
Member
ISIS usually differentiates between acts that they were involved in and acts inspired by them don't they?
I would wait for identity confirmation of the suspect, because ISIS attackers usually don't vanish into night, they are very vocal and want to be known
airmangataosenai
Member
For them in the past they have made a distinction between merely inspiring attackers and being activepy involved in organizing.
That isn't true. The ISIS attackers have always tried to retreat quietly for new attacks. This happened in the Jewish museum shooting, after Charlie Hebdo where they were being hunted for days, Paris where the survivors tried to stay off the police radar and the Brussels attacks where they walked away quietly. They go out with a bang when cornered but they have tried to retreat for new attacks almost in all big attacks. It is very rare for their attackers to actively stay on the radar.
Right but they always screamed the infamous "Allah Akbar" didn't they? This one aparently not. Haven't we learn nothing and just jump to any bandwagon we see? I'm skeptical I want to see the police results of the investigation first, before making any pointing finger
| Praxis |
Banned
I'm sure there were many Allah akbars in the truck as he was doing it. Before he ran off like the cowardly piece of shit he is.
They didn't always scream that, at least not that anyone can confirm. For instance this has not been confirmed for the Nice attack. For now this looks very much in line with an IS attacker that is prepared enough to have a way out, which strengthens the IS claim.
GlamFM
Banned
IS tells people to use trucks? Source for that?
GlamFM
Banned
ISIS claim responsibility for every successful terrorist attack without actually being involved to make them seem bigger and more dangerous than they actually are. On some people it's clearly working...
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
I'd say German authorities are much more trustworthy than anything else at the moment, and it is their conclusions that matter.
ISIS have been telling people to use vehicles for a while now. Am not going to bother to source it. They've been fairly loud especially after the success (from their POV) of Nice vs more traditional Al Qaeda style attacks.
but how are they "involved" if that's the scenario? I feel this this is the same myth the world created about Al Qaeda where we were told they had a complex terror network all across the world and no such thing existed. People might do something in their name or whatever but they're not funding, planning or directly supporting most of these attacks. To suggest otherwise creates an oversimplified narrative where there's a central enemy to defeat or a leader you can capture to make it all stop but that's simply not true and distracts from the real issues of radicalisation and isolation. There's nothing complex about driving a truck into a crowd and we should be more worried someone who would do that then this idea of a big bad terror network pulling all the strings.
TTOOLL
Member
Do they need to actually finance the attacks??
I mean, who else is spreading videos telling people how to do terrorist attacks out there? They are sending the message and some crazy motherfuckers are listening, that's pretty successful for them if you ask me, even if they didn't plan or finance the attack directly. It's their ideia, their voice being heard.
Driving a truck to kill is not complex, but why weren't people doing it before? Why now?
TTOOLL
Member
Unfortunately. And by reading this thread one would think they are isolated cases.
Isn't one of IS's desires to create tension and hatred between Muslims and the West? Wouldn't they just claim every attack, especially in a country like Germany where there is already tension with refugees.
Night Angel
Member
I mean, sure.
That doesn't mean this wasn't inspired by or committed for ISIS, though.
Why do people act like them taking responsibility is somehow making it less likely it was a terror attack by/for ISIS?
At what point can people believe this is an Islamic terrorist incident without being xenophobic? We've seen this shit happen before, we know who calls people to do this, and we know the current landscape for terrorism. All of this hand wringing and virtue signaling to avoid categorizing this as what it appears to be is ridiculous.
Shit, even if it IS speculation, speculating that this is Islamic extremist terrorism is just as valid (but obviously more so govern the details we know) as believing it's an old person's shitty driving.
How meaningful is the distinction? Is it worth arguing over to no end?
It's happened before. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/fr...ry-vehicles-being-used-deadly-weapons-n609811
I mean in this day and age probably the attack of choice because it's low tech and low risk. Anyone can just go and steal a truck, you don't need money or materials and you're probably not going to raise any eyebrows driving a truck around unlike if you were say buying a gun or something.
ISIS puts out an internet magazine where they specifically suggest people use trucks to cause mass casualty incidents etc.
ISIS learned from Al Qaeda. Bin Laden and crew were always trying to one up their attacks with more and more spectacular things. ISIS sees the benefit in simplicity and things you really cannot stop.
Jumping in a Semi and murdering dozens can happen anywhere at anytime
For the victims, no, but for trying to prevent future occurrences, sure.
It is meaningful though. Organising terrorist attacks means they have the money and the infrastructure to train people and supply them with weapons and materials. A possible IS cell can organise more attacks and the challenge to track and keep them under control require much more resources.
Inspired by IS means require other type of intelligence countermeasures.
I still think the most important would be to tackle the radicalisation and the ones who drive that.
ClosingADoor
Member
One would be a lone wolf who did it on his own. If ISIS is involved, there might be a cell there of multiple people who are involved.
timetokill
Banned
I can't believe this guy hasn't been caught. Must be a horrible feeling for people in the area.
It has been one of the most common tactics they have encouraged, it was in Inspire magazine before the Nice attacks and it was in Rumiyah last month. They even mentioned it in a couple of speeches. It is also literally a page from the Al Qaeda handbook where Al Qaeda thought it wasn't good because you don't know who you kill.
Experts claim otherwise, that they do source the attacks and that their statements show which one are heavily guided and which ones are inspired.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...worth-reading-closely/?utm_term=.6a55d6fdee8d
That's exactly what they're writing in the German message above.
guggnichso
Banned
This is germany, not the US. This whole "brown people" meme is really getting on my nerves.
You don't know what the guy following the suspect saw, you don't even know the skin Color of the guy following him. You know fuck all.
That's not being directly involved, which is what people are discussing here. Learn to read, please.
- Status