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[Dalibor68]

i dont see why this is a stupid idea. the crisis will not be worse because unlike the current situation where greece and italy have to take care of all the refugees the burden would be given to multiple states and therefore the burden for each state would be less.

agree that wont happen though unless EU finally gets together

So then the migration just stops? If anything it will increase even more.

 

[paradise_circus]

Man I am ashamed my father is reading that. Bild is such a horrible newspaper because of stuff like this.

Berlin ist pretty cool about the tragedy, tbh. I was paying my respect yesterday and went to the gym right around the corner of the tragedy.
There is no angst ...for now at least.

 

[Buzzati]

Najdorf Sicilian talking about 2012-2013 when Italy was the subject of a wave of refugees from Libya and nobody cared about supporting them. And then Greece started to have problems quite some times before the refugees start coming towards central Europe. And again nobody cared to listen to them.

Even to this day there is no good long term plan in place beside the deal with Erdogan. You can't ask Greece and Italy to handle it on their own a crisis of this magnitude.

It's not just 2012-2013. In 2016 alone, 180,000 people from Libya showed up on Italian shores and the EU response has been exactly the same.

 

[SporeCrawler]

So then the migration just stops? If anything it will increase even more.

no migration doesnt stop. there obviously needs to be a measure to reduce migration but letting italy and greece handle it is not the solution. its just a measure to "share the pain".

measures to reduce migration would be to improve the living situation in non-EU countries in general. europeans need to help economic development in those countries more so that there are little incentives to move to europe.

obviously that doesnt work for current warzones like syria or certain parts of the world that will just be flooded in the next few years due to global warming. people will come from those regions regardless and there are little possible measures against it.

 

[Hunter S.]

Makes me actually agree with Trump on something.

 

[Always-honest]

Makes me actually agree with Trump on something.

i'll bite. What do you agree on with Trump?

 

[Xando]

Update on actual topic:

Police has found DNA and fingerprints of suspect from the truck. Polish driver also apparently injured attacker before being killed

Police searching ambulances and hospitals

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...hndungserfolg-fuer-realistisch-a-1126885.html (german source)


Edit: Apparently police is searching for a tunesian suspect
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/anschlag-in-berlin-polizei-sucht-tunesier-a-1126931.html

Press conferences at 1pm (2 hours from now)

 

[DieNgamers]

Update on actual topic:

Police has found DNA and fingerprints of suspect from the truck. Polish driver also apparently injured attacker before being killed

Police searching ambulances and hospitals

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...hndungserfolg-fuer-realistisch-a-1126885.html (german source)

Wow, so the polish driver was alive during all of it and only got killed last minute when he tried to stop the whole thing?

 

[RedSparrows]

i'll bite. What do you agree on with Trump?

'Bad people are bad'.

 

[Xando]

Wow, so the polish driver was alive during all of it and only got killed last minute when he tried to stop the whole thing?

That's the theory police is working with. Apparently he tried to steer away from the market then got into a fight with the attacker and was stabbed multiple times. After the market was hit the driver apparently was executed.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Update on actual topic:

Police has found DNA and fingerprints of suspect from the truck. Polish driver also apparently injured attacker before being killed

Police searching ambulances and hospitals

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...hndungserfolg-fuer-realistisch-a-1126885.html (german source)


Edit: Apparently police is searching for a tunesian suspect
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/anschlag-in-berlin-polizei-sucht-tunesier-a-1126931.html

Press conferences at 1pm (2 hours from now)

So apparently not a refugee then. German media is saying they found his "Duldung" which basically means he was rejected a visa or refuge but was allowed to stay

Not that people will make this distinction

 

[mnz]

Spiegel now saying they found an id and are looking for a Tunesian guy named Anis A., born 1992.

 

[Xando]

So apparently not a refugee then. German media is saying they found his "Duldung" which basically means he was rejected a visa or refuge but was allowed to stay

Not that people will make this distinction

Yeah apparently he is known as a "Gefährder" which means he is known by intelligence communities to have ties to islamic terrorists

 

[Tk0n]

Update on actual topic:

Edit: Apparently police is searching for a tunesian suspect
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/anschlag-in-berlin-polizei-sucht-tunesier-a-1126931.html

Press conferences at 1pm (2 hours from now)

so the attacker placed his identity card under the drivers seat?
why?

 

[SporeCrawler]

so the attacker placed his identity card under the drivers seat?
why?

Maybe he lost it

 

[mnz]

so the attacker placed his identity card under the drivers seat?
why?

I mean, terrorists usually don't try to hide their identity, but it's definitely weird.
Also, I don't get why it took so long to find it. The way this has been going doesn't look like they've had it for long.

 

[Kinyou]

So apparently not a refugee then. German media is saying they found his "Duldung" which basically means he was rejected a visa or refuge but was allowed to stay

Not that people will make this distinction

Well doesn't it make an argument for more swift deportation when someone is denied? But many seem to be even against that

 

[Kastrioti]

They haven't found the suspect period.

In this day and age, with cameras I presume everywhere in a busy area, I don't understand how anyone hasn't been arrested. Based on the photos you'd think they'd have also sustained some injuries as well.

They probably had this planned for months though. Hopefully they're caught soon (and they will be).

 

[Sölf]

I mean, terrorists usually don't try to hide their identity, but it's definitely weird.
Also, I don't get why it took so long to find it. The way this has been going doesn't look like they've had it for long.

Considering the truck got into a crash, even if the card was in the truck, it could have been stuck somewhere where police couldn't get it at first.

 

[DrM]

so the attacker placed his identity card under the drivers seat?
why?

It could be placed there to put police on a fake lead.. it will be known soon if it was fake ID or not.
And I think that they are looking for multiple suspects, because this was well planned attack.

 

[Joni]

That is very doubtful. Police isn't going to let this go and Berlin is very tightly knit with informants. I don't think he'll find prolonged shelter there.

He had a day to get out of Berlin.

 

[Xando]

so the attacker placed his identity card under the drivers seat?
why?

Apparently there was a fight between the polish driver and him aswell as the crash could have him lose it.

We'll know more at 1PM when police has their official press conference

I mean, terrorists usually don't try to hide their identity, but it's definitely weird.
Also, I don't get why it took so long to find it. The way this has been going doesn't look like they've had it for long.

Remember we only have information leaked or officially announced. They probably know a lot more than we do

He had a day to get out of Berlin.

They are searching all over germany and european intelligence agencies are probably also searching in their local islamic terrorist communities



Edit:

Focus is reporting anti terror operation is about to start in North Rhine-Westphalia
http://www.focus.de/politik/deutsch...-nrw-stehen-unmittelbar-bevor_id_6387016.html

 

[Siegcram]

Well doesn't it make an argument for more swift deportation when someone is denied? But many seem to be even against that

No, many are simply aware that a speedier deportation process requires more ressources and manpower than are available atm.

Regardless of what populist windbags scream from the cheap seats.

 

[Joni]

They are searching all over germany and european intelligence agencies are probably also searching in their local islamic terrorist communities

Of course. But that is a huge search area nonetheless and it wouldn't be the first one to fall through the cracks, especially as they still don't know for sure who it is. Still, if they can confirm his identity, he will rise to the top of the Europol Most Wanted.

 

[Des0lar]

Well doesn't it make an argument for more swift deportation when someone is denied? But many seem to be even against that

An issue that is constantly overlooked is that many of these countries WON'T TAKE the deported. If they simply refuse to take in people, what else can you do? It's not like you can throw them out of the plane and just leave them there.

 

[Henkka]

So the guy just walks into Germany, is denied, but gets to stay anyway? How does any of that make sense?

 

[Dalibor68]

Focus is reporting anti terror operation is about to start in North Rhine-Westphalia
http://www.focus.de/politik/deutsch...-nrw-stehen-unmittelbar-bevor_id_6387016.html

Ugh, why would they report/leak that?

 

[Xando]

Ugh, why would they report/leak that?

Todays media is just gotta be first no matter what. I mean they even showed the victims dying without blurring them out shortly after the attack

So the guy just walks into Germany, is denied, but gets to stay anyway? How does any of that make sense?

German media is reporting he had atleast 4 identities and went underground a while ago
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...gspapiere-im-Lkw-Bevorstehende-Massnahme.html

 

[SporeCrawler]

Well doesn't it make an argument for more swift deportation when someone is denied? But many seem to be even against that

Thats already being done but for refugees that wouldnt apply anyways due to Art. 16 a GG and the Refugee Convention of geneve

So the guy just walks into Germany, is denied, but gets to stay anyway? How does any of that make sense?

There are certain cases were you are allowed to stay. Mostly due to humanitarian or health issues. You are half illegal in that state though and a few years ago you were not allowed to work for example

An issue that is constantly overlooked is that many of these countries WON'T TAKE the deported. If they simply refuse to take in people, what else can you do? It's not like you can throw them out of the plane and just leave them there.

Dont give em ideas

 

[Bustanen]

An issue that is constantly overlooked is that many of these countries WON'T TAKE the deported. If they simply refuse to take in people, what else can you do? It's not like you can throw them out of the plane and just leave them there.

I've always wondered why can't they be just left on the destination airport? It's ridiculous that a country can deny to take it's own citizens back.

So the guy just walks into Germany, is denied, but gets to stay anyway? How does any of that make sense?

There's no control, people just disappear and stay illegally.

 

[Dalibor68]

New lead seems to be going after a tunisian person. Source (in german) http://diepresse.com/home/politik/a...uehrt-zu-Tunesier?_vl_backlink=/home/index.do

 

[Regginator]

When this happened it said 9 dead and 50 injured. Seeing as how unfortunately three of the injured didn't make it (12 dead), shouldn't it be 47 injured now instead of 48? Or they got it wrong first and it was actually 51 injured.

 

[mnz]

Thats already being done but for refugees that wouldnt apply anyways due to Art. 16 a GG and the Refugee Convention of geneve

There are certain cases were you are allowed to stay. Mostly due to humanitarian or health issues. You are half illegal in that state though and a few years ago you were not allowed to work for example

It's being done but it's not easy and the way it's been done differs greatly between states. There are about 500,000 people like that in Germany right now.

 

[ClosingADoor]

An issue that is constantly overlooked is that many of these countries WON'T TAKE the deported. If they simply refuse to take in people, what else can you do? It's not like you can throw them out of the plane and just leave them there.

Pressure them. These are countries like Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco. Hardly economic power houses the EU can't put some pressure on. They are responsible for their citizens.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Of course. But that is a huge search area nonetheless and it wouldn't be the first one to fall through the cracks, especially as they still don't know for sure who it is. Still, if they can confirm his identity, he will rise to the top of the Europol Most Wanted.

The guy could now be anywhere from Helsinki to Lisbon.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The guy could now be anywhere from Helsinki to Lisbon.

Could be, but most logical thing would be him hiding somewhere with other terrorist sympathizers in Germany still. Like the guy in Brussels who was hidden there for a long time.

 

[Kinyou]

Thats already being done but for refugees that wouldnt apply anyways due to Art. 16 a GG and the Refugee Convention of geneve

If he was denied I'd imagine that he wasn't an actual refugee. I mean, didn't you just a moment ago say that yourself?
So I don't see why artikel 16 should apply.

 

[Dalibor68]

Appearantly they found someones passport in the truck (presumably of the new tunisian suspect). Source same article as above

 

[Joni]

The guy could now be anywhere from Helsinki to Lisbon.

Good reason for Europol to become better integrated with each country, allowing them to wipe out terrorist cells over entire countries. Concept of the Most Wanted list is going very well.

 

[SporeCrawler]

If he was denied I'd imagine that he wasn't an actual refugee. I mean, didn't you just a moment ago say that yourself?
So I don't see why artikel 16 should apply.

What I leant was is that swift deportation is not really a measure against the refugee crisis

 

[Angelina]

Who says the id isn't a fake one n thus they search someone of the fake id n bides the person more time

 

[E-phonk]

Pressure them. These are countries like Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco. Hardly economic power houses the EU can't put some pressure on. They are responsible for their citizens.

Yeah, about Algeria... chances are we'll hear from that country a lot the next few years.

 

[ClosingADoor]

So the new suspect:

- Is known under three different identities (Tunisian an Egyptian)
- Applied for asylum and got to stay (why, are Tunisia and Egypt at war?)
- Was in contact with a known terrorist from ISIS and on a watch list because of it
- Also known at police for assault

Why was this guy walking free and got to stay in Germany?

Geman source: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...iger-beantragte-asyl-in-deutschland-1.3304352
Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/12/2...-nieuwe-aanhouding-a1537716#upd20161221115342

Yeah, about Algeria... chances are we'll hear from that country a lot the next few years.

Read about it some time ago. Hopefully they work it out there. Otherwise the EU will most likely go in and set up safe zones there then deal with the refugees I think.

 

[Dalibor68]

So the new suspect:

- Is known under three different identities (Tunisian an Egyptian)
- Applied for asylum and got to stay (why, are Tunisia and Egypt at war?)
- Was in contact with a known terrorist from ISIS and on a watch list because of it
- Also known at police for assault

Why was this guy walking free and got to stay in Germany?

Hard to find words to describe how ridiculous this is. Even if he doesn't end up as the killer.

 

[Xando]

So the new suspect:

- Is known under three different identities (Tunisian an Egyptian)
- Applied for asylum and got to stay (why, are Tunisia and Egypt at war?)
- Was in contact with a known terrorist from ISIS and on a watch list because of it
- Also known at police for assault

Why was this guy walking free and got to stay in Germany?

He was due to have a court process for assault but went underground before anything happened.

 

[Salty Rice]

So the new suspect:

- Is known under three different identities (Tunisian an Egyptian)
- Applied for asylum and got to stay (why, are Tunisia and Egypt at war?)
- Was in contact with a known terrorist from ISIS and on a watch list because of it
- Also known at police for assault

Why was this guy walking free and got to stay in Germany?

So the guy just walks into Germany, is denied, but gets to stay anyway? How does any of that make sense?

 

[SporeCrawler]

So the new suspect:

- Is known under three different identities (Tunisian an Egyptian)
- Applied for asylum and got to stay (why, are Tunisia and Egypt at war?)
- Was in contact with a known terrorist from ISIS and on a watch list because of it
- Also known at police for assault

Why was this guy walking free and got to stay in Germany?

Geman source: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...iger-beantragte-asyl-in-deutschland-1.3304352
Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/12/2...-nieuwe-aanhouding-a1537716#upd20161221115342


Read about it some time ago. Hopefully they work it out there. Otherwise the EU will most likely go in and set up safe zones there then deal with the refugees I think.

He was rejected asylum but his deportation was dispensed

 

[Audioboxer]

So the new suspect:

- Is known under three different identities (Tunisian an Egyptian)
- Applied for asylum and got to stay (why, are Tunisia and Egypt at war?)
- Was in contact with a known terrorist from ISIS and on a watch list because of it
- Also known at police for assault

Why was this guy walking free and got to stay in Germany?

Geman source: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...iger-beantragte-asyl-in-deutschland-1.3304352
Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/12/2...-nieuwe-aanhouding-a1537716#upd20161221115342


Read about it some time ago. Hopefully they work it out there. Otherwise the EU will most likely go in and set up safe zones there then deal with the refugees I think.

Are the police going to do a press conference on this? Pretty damning statements if true.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Are the police going to do a press conference on this? Pretty damning statements if true.

No clue, but it gets worse: http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/suche-tatverdaechtiger-103.html

Google Translate:

The police are looking for information from SZ, NDR and WDR nationwide to a Tunisian named Anis A. A personal document of the 23-year-old has been found in the footwell of the truck, which raced on the Christmas market at the memory church on Monday evening. It is said to be a certificate of toleration, but it was issued in a false name. Anis A. used eight different alias identities according to the research co-operation.

In 2012 he traveled to Italy and then came to Germany in 2015, and in April 2016 he was granted asylum. Anis A. stayed in North Rhine-Westphalia and Berlin. He should contact the network of recently arrested Abu Walaa talked and deemed troublemaker. Abu Walaa is known as the "No. 1 of the IS in Germany"

So this guy was already going around through Europe from 2012, used 8(!) different identities, was even registered in 2 places in Germany when applying for asylum, and was in contact with known terrorists.

 

[Xando]

Are the police going to do a press conference on this? Pretty damning statements if true.

There is supposed to be one in 30 minutes