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[Patrick S.]

No, i just don't get why you think that the people of germany would place more value on your wifes parents than they do anyone with refugee status. The refugees gets to stay because sending them home means death. That's literally the only reason they are let in.

I agree with letting them in. I'm no monster, I don't want anyone's death. Let them come, give them a roof, give them clothes, let them go to the doctor. What I'm saying is that once the war is over my opinion is that the grounds for them being here are not there anymore. There are requirements in place for non EU members to come here forever. One can be family reunification, as in my wife's family's case (which is no problem in other European countries, btw. My wife has several uncles, aunts and cousins in Spain who all came legally without problems) and another escaping a war. But once the war is over, what are the grounds for them staying forever? When there's no war, apparently only "people of worth to German society", ie. qualified people Germany that wants can come here. People who meet peacetime requirements for a permanent visa are very much welcome for me.

 

[Dalibor68]

There is neither a smokescreen nor is it an attemp to deflect anything. Your idea of "born in this country, grew up in this country, still not a native" is a racist borderline far right-extrem view. You can't post this kind of ideology and expect no counter questions.

Sorry but you are so ill-informed it hurts. Every single statistic is divided into "native" and "with migration background", usually even "EU-migration background" and "non-EU-migration background". So unless all the european governments, the OECD and others are suddenly far right-extreme you should inform yourself better. You are actively trying to deceive people by claiming "french people are committing terrorist acts anyways" when in reality in the last years it was 99% french-born with north-african/middle-eastern migration background jihadists who were born here first or second generation and were radicalized.

 

[EloKa]

Sorry but you are so ill-informed it hurts. Every single statistic is divided into "native" and "with migration background", usually even "EU-migration background" and "non-EU-migration background". So unless all the european governments, the OECD and others are suddenly far right-extreme you should inform yourself better.

there may be "native" and "native with migration background". Both types are still "native".

Again, whats your number? 3 or more? The need to have a lastname that doesn't sound muslim?

 

[MUnited83]

I'm in the UK, and yeah that's essentially what we're doing now. Hey, at least it's equal opportunity ;-)

As regards the bolded, why are you always with the black and white statements like this? It could well keep some potential terrorists out altogether, even if it doesn't stop all of them or prevent "homegrown" terrorism.

You can also stop crimes and terrorism by just putting your entire population in a state prison. But that wouldn't be very logical or be practical at all.

It's like saying that you can't let Mexicans enter the us at all because one of them might be a rapist so hey, at least you prevented a rapist from getting in!

 

[QuicheFontaine]

You can also stop crimes and terrorism by just putting your entire population in a state prison. But that wouldn't be very logical or be practical at all.

It's like saying that you can't let Mexicans enter the us at all because one of them might be a rapist so hey, at least you prevented a rapist from getting in!

Again, you're going to crazy extremes for some reason. Why do people keep doing that in this thread?

 

[Patrick S.]

It's unfortunate your wife can't be near her family, but I imagine it's simply because your in-laws can't afford to support themselves in Germany (unless they happen to be extremely wealthy Peruvians?). A Sol pension won't go far in Germany, and immigration can't take your word that you'll pay for them for life.

They didn't look at any of their documents and bank statements, just categorically denied any kind of visa.

 

[Tk0n]

You are basically saying that we either have to welcome everybody or nobody at all. It has never been that way.

how would you distinguish between real war refugees and radical assholes?

closing the borders on war refugees is inhumane. letting them in was the right thing to do. time was running out and germany has enough wealth to share with people in distress. yes, some will exploit the wellfare state, yes, some are radicalized assholes. almost all of them grew up with fundamentaly different values to the values of the western civilization and it will take time to adapt for both sides. integrating those large number of people is the real hard task and i fear that germany will fail at that like it did before. but you cant blame merkel for trying to help.

letting them die of starvation or freeze to death is not a viable answer.

 

[Apathy]

Xenophobia is strong in this thread, wow.

It's sad to see too because that's what terrorist want. They want to take the kindness out of people and have hate and intolerance aimed at anyone regardless of their innocence or guilt and have people judge others on region, skin color or background.

Eurogaf, please remember, the world isn't perfect. There are bad people out there that do and will do terrible things, but don't blame others that need your help for the crimes of a few. If you do to play into exactly what they want.

 

[tedrotheredro]

Everybody gets so damn crazy about terrorist attacks. You're falling for the bait:

Bait from right wingers to "take back our country"
Bait from the news media to keep the clicks/views coming
Bait from the terrorist to raise anti-muslim sentiment

You have a 1 in 10-20 million chance of getting killed in a terrorist attack. This attack is horrible and sad for those killed, injured and their families, but let's not pretend this is a larger issue for your personal health than getting in a car or eating a cheeseburger. Let's not pretend the .001% of refugees that commit these acts speak for the entire population.

I get having tighter controls around immigration for various reasons, but stop with the "preventing terror" and the xenophobic crap. It's regurgitated, fear-baiting propaganda.

 

[CheDominik]

You're obviously a native of the country you're born in. Claiming anything else is absurd.

Different countries view this differently. Until as recently as the early 2000s Germany strictly used ius saguinis. Even now it's a big part of getting the German citizenship.

 

[Raguel]

Jesus Christ the xenophobia and diet racism in this thread is strong. What the fuck.

What happened is a tragedy but these kind of reactions is exactly what the terrorists want.

 

[therealist]

how would you distinguish between real war refugees and radical assholes?

closing the borders on war refugees is inhumane. letting them in was the right thing to do. time was running out and germany has enough wealth to share with people in distress. yes, some will exploit the wellfare state, yes, some are radicalized assholes. almost all of them grew up with fundamentaly different values to the values of the western civilization and it will take time to adapt for both sides. integrating those large number of people is the real hard task and i fear that germany will fail at that like it did before. but you cant blame merkel for trying to help.

letting them die of starvation or freeze to death is not a viable answer.

Assimilation and adaptation is a two way street. The refugees have, to an extent, denounce a lot of their intolerant Muslim beliefs. Many of these values are incompatible with Western values. In what way can the government tell people to be more tolerant? They have zero loyalty to their country, but are extremely loyal to their faith.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I agree with letting them in. I'm no monster, I don't want anyone's death. Let them come, give them a roof, give them clothes, let them go to the doctor. What I'm saying is that once the war is over my opinion is that the grounds for them being here are not there anymore. There are requirements in place for non EU members to come here forever. One can be family reunification, as in my wife's family's case (which is no problem in other European countries, btw. My wife has several uncles, aunts and cousins in Spain who all came legally without problems) and another escaping a war. But once the war is over, what are the grounds for them staying forever? When there's no war, apparently only "people of worth to German society", ie. qualified people Germany that wants can come here. People who meet peacetime requirements for a permanent visa are very much welcome for me.

That's how it works, if the situation in the home country has improved within three years then the refugee is not granted further residence rights and must leave.

 

[Dalibor68]

I'm getting the feeling that american users, some of whom do not fully understand the extent of the different migration situations between the US and Europe, are now entering this thread. I hope we can still have a normal discussion without increased usage of extreme hyperbole.

 

[Patrick S.]

Refugee status is a thing too. And if they built a live during their time here, why should they be sent back.

It sucks for you and your in-law family that they can't stay, but it has nothing to do with the current refugee situation. They're not taking away your in-laws' spots.

I do see your point, but, being forced to sit in a refugee home all day because they have nothing else to do, don't speak the language, and lack the required qualification to land a job, what life can they realistically build for themselves? Are they even allowed to work before their asylum case has been decided?

 

[d00d3n]

Jesus Christ the xenophobia and diet racism in this thread is strong. What the fuck.

What happened is a tragedy but these kind of reactions is exactly what the terrorists want.

What is diet racism?

 

[Dalibor68]

I do see your point, but, being forced to sit in a refugee home all day because they have nothing else to do, don't speak the language, and lack the required qualification to land a job, what life can they realistically build for themselves? Are they even allowed to work before their asylum case has been decided?

In times with record unemployment rates in many countries fully opening the job market to refugees who were not even granted asylum yet would be political suicide as well as further overloading the job market. However some countries allow charitable work as well as "1€ jobs".

 

[Audioboxer]

Again, you're going to crazy extremes for some reason. Why do people keep doing that in this thread?

Sadly a vocal minority care more about virtue signaling in the wake of an atrocity as it's easy to sit behind your computer on your keyboard and type up some strawman outrage in order to try and get some pats on the back. This is precisely the kind of strawmaning that really winds up liberals and leftists who don't want to just hand wave the fact people have died and families are in grieving because "racism". It's what pushes people to right wing opportunistic parties who release comments in the wake of attacks like those we've seen today. To feel aggrieved at Merkel and the German government in an attempt to discuss the migrant crisis with some nuance instantly means "deport everyone", right? Absolutely not. Intellectually dishonest and ideological propaganda to spout such nonsense.

You've seen it above, absolutely ludicrous comments that people in this topic are seemingly summing up well articulated debates around immigration and refugees as "deport them all!" in order to slate people. Like no one, literally no one in here has said that. A countries stance as being empathetic and caring isn't some race to the top of the numbers to gain a badge of "we let in the most people!". As always in life balance is needed, and as humanitarian as you wish to be to those in need you also have to take care of your own country and its current citizens as well. Immigration and assimilation is a complex matter, especially when there are huge societal divides between certain cultures. Letting people in is ironically the easiest part, trying to foster assimilation and long-term productivity can be a massive challenge. Especially when religion is involved. We already have many of our own battles in the West with generations who have been here for ages around topics such as gay marriage, climate change, evolution and so on. Humanity is complex and messy.

 

[Patrick S.]

That's how it works, if the situation in the home country has improved within three years then the refugee is not granted further residence rights and must leave.

Oh, I thought they'd automatically get to stay forever no matter what happens in their home country in the future. Then,it seems I don't really have anything to complain about in regards to this.

 

[faridmon]

Xenophobia is strong in this thread, wow.

Good way to stretch that ignore list even further.

 

[Guileless]

You have a 1 in 10-20 million chance of getting killed in a terrorist attack.

This is a point that progressive bete noire Clay Travis made recently about both terrorism fears and police shooting fears in the US. People aren't computers though.

 

[Roronoa95]

Except it isn't. In almost every survey and statistic whatsoever it is differentiated, from education to labour to PISA tests. You are purposefully trying to paint a picture of this being just regular everyday french people when the reality of paris (as it was mentioned above) was this:

I'm not sure to get your point here, are you implying that the issue is ethnicity?

Also, I'm interested in the survey and statistic you're talking about, especially for France (as it's my country) as you're considered native once you're born on the territory (it's getting more & more strict though).

On a related note, there is no common definition or standard for "everyday french people"

But let's say there is... Before these guys were radicalized, they could be these "everyday french people" (except for those who aren't native). They went to a public school, receiving the same values and civic/history lessons as any other French...

Nevertheless, there are important things that could distort their education : poor environment, high unemployment, high crime rates, high proportion of residents of different origins and parent customs/education.

IMO, the issue is social.

 

[MUnited83]

Again, you're going to crazy extremes for some reason. Why do people keep doing that in this thread?

You go to crazy extremes, I just reply in the same manner.

Sadly a vocal minority care more about virtue signaling in the wake of an atrocity as it's easy to sit behind your computer on your keyboard and type up some strawman outrage in order to try and get some pats on the back. This is precisely the kind of strawmaning that really winds up liberals and leftists who don't want to just hand wave the fact people have died and families are in grieving because "racism". It's what pushes people to right wing opportunistic parties who release comments in the wake of attacks like those we've seen today. To feel aggrieved at Merkel and the German government in an attempt to discuss the migrant crisis with some nuance instantly means "deport everyone", right? Absolutely not. Intellectually dishonest and ideological propaganda to spout such nonsense.

You've seen it above, absolutely ludicrous comments that people in this topic are seemingly summing up well articulated debates around immigration and refugees as "deport them all!" in order to slate people. Like no one, literally no one in here has said that.

Actually read the thread maybe? Interesting that you talk about "intellectually dishonest" and "ideological propaganda" when the thread is shock full of far-right fantasists with measures that are not going to help anyone, and are nothing more than ideological propaganda spouted from strawmanning smart-assed from the right sitting beside their computers.
But yeah, blame the left for idiots going to the right, that makes complete sense. It's not like the right is continuously making shit worse for everyone and literally can't have a single fucking actual solution for issues.

Handwave the lives lost? Sod off with that motherfucking shit. I lost friends at Bataclan. You don't get to use their fucking lives to help your shitty internet argument.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

You go to crazy extremes, I just reply in the same manner.

The crazy extreme of "increasing border control might prevent some terrorists from getting in"? You've repeatedly gone rocketing off as if I've said something else...

 

[Audioboxer]

You go to crazy extremes, I just reply in the same manner.

Actually read the thread maybe? Interesting that you talk about "intellectually dishonest" and "ideological propaganda" when the thread is shock full of far-right fantasists with measures that are not going to help anyone, and are nothing more than ideological propaganda spouted from strawmanning smart-assed from the right sitting beside their computers.
But yeah, blame the left for idiots going to the right, that makes complete sense. It's not like the right is continuously making shit worse for everyone and literally can't have a single fucking actual solution for issues.

I've been hugely involved in the thread. You seem to have joined in the last few pages to bring the strawman outrage. Therefore it's probably not best to spin a gotcha "maybe read the thread" at me when I've been largely involved in debate for many pages.

My point is if you classify yourself as on the left it does not help to come in and hurl shit at fellow leftists trying to maturely discuss the complex issues around immigration and assimilation, especially in the wake of what looks to be another terrorist attack in Europe.

It's like saying that you can't let Mexicans enter the us at all because one of them might be a rapist so hey, at least you prevented a rapist from getting in!

Nonsense like that has no place in amongst what has been a rather mature topic so far. As I said above literally no one in here has advocated for kicking out all immigrants and banning all immigrants/refugees from entering Germany/Europe. So why post such false equivalencies?

 

[His Majesty]

Jesus Christ the xenophobia and diet racism in this thread is strong. What the fuck.

What happened is a tragedy but these kind of reactions is exactly what the terrorists want.

Discussion in this topic has been rather civilized so far so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[MUnited83]

I've been hugely involved in the thread. You seem to have joined in the last few pages to bring the strawman outrage. Therefore it's probably not best to spin a gotcha "maybe read the thread" at me when I've been largely involved in debate for many pages.

My point is if you classify yourself as on the left it does not help to come in and hurl shit at fellow leftists trying to maturely discuss the complex issues around immigration and assimilation.



Nonsense like that has no place in amongst what has been a rather mature topic so far.

Yet all you can do is spout generalising bullshit instead of actually discussing. Using lives of other people in help of your crappy argument, even.
I've gone to this thread and talked about the far right fantasists in this thread. There's a few here, some that have showed that side several times before this. If you think I:m talking about you, well then, I guess the shoe fits.

 

[Sioen]

Merkel should resign after this, she's an example of how to fuck over not only your country but the entirety of Europe.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yet all you can do is spout generalising bullshit instead of actually discussing. Using lives of other people in help of your crappy argument, even.
I've gone to this thread and talked about the far right fantasists in this thread. There's a few here, some that have showed that side several times before this. If you think I:m talking about you, well then, I guess the shoe fits.

What generalising bullshit am I spouting?

 

[ant_]

Yet all you can do is spout generalising bullshit instead of actually discussing. Using lives of other people in help of your crappy argument, even.
I've gone to this thread and talked about the far right fantasists in this thread. There's a few here, some that have showed that side several times before this. If you think I:m talking about you, well then, I guess the shoe fits.

You are mischaracterizing their arguments and producing outrage instead of meaningful discussion.

 

[ittoryu]

Merkel should resign after this, she's an example of how to fuck over not only your country but the entirety of Europe.

No, not really.

 

[Dalibor68]

Yet all you can do is spout generalising bullshit instead of actually discussing. Using lives of other people in help of your crappy argument, even.
I've gone to this thread and talked about the far right fantasists in this thread. There's a few here, some that have showed that side several times before this. If you think I:m talking about you, well then, I guess the shoe fits.

You came into this thread with accusations, generalizations and generally what seemed like an attempt to sabotage the pretty good discussiins we've had up to this point, so maybe you should indeed take a look in the mirror. However I also have this feeling that personal accusations and quote wars are not the way forward if this thread is to be kept open so maybe you should take it to private messages or something so we can continue normal discussion.

In other news, so far 6 out of the 12 victims have been identified (I guess that does not bode well for the status of the bodies), all of them german citizens.

 

[Brazil]

Merkel should resign after this, she's an example of how to fuck over not only your country but the entirety of Europe.

Yeah, no.

 

[MUnited83]

What generalising bullshit am I spouting?

Sadly a vocal minority care more about virtue signaling in the wake of an atrocity as it's easy to sit behind your computer on your keyboard and type up some strawman outrage in order to try and get some pats on the back. This is precisely the kind of strawmaning that really winds up liberals and leftists who don't want to just hand wave the fact people have died and families are in grieving because "racism". It's what pushes people to right wing opportunistic parties who release comments in the wake of attacks like those we've seen today. To feel aggrieved at Merkel and the German government in an attempt to discuss the migrant crisis with some nuance instantly means "deport everyone", right? Absolutely not. Intellectually dishonest and ideological propaganda to spout such nonsense.

You've seen it above, absolutely ludicrous comments that people in this topic are seemingly summing up well articulated debates around immigration and refugees as "deport them all!" in order to slate people. Like no one, literally no one in here has said that. A countries stance as being empathetic and caring isn't some race to the top of the numbers to gain a badge of "we let in the most people!". As always in life balance is needed, and as humanitarian as you wish to be to those in need you also have to take care of your own country and its current citizens as well. Immigration and assimilation is a complex matter, especially when there are huge societal divides between certain cultures. Letting people in is ironically the easiest part, trying to foster assimilation and long-term productivity can be a massive challenge. Especially when religion is involved. We already have many of our own battles in the West with generations who have been here for ages around topics such as gay marriage, climate change, evolution and so on. Humanity is complex and messy.

You are mischaracterizing their arguments and producing outrage instead of meaningful discussion.

Not at all, I called it as I see it. The ones I meant to address fully know who they are, and they have not engaged in any kind of meaningful discussion either.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Assimilation and adaptation is a two way street. The refugees have, to an extent, denounce a lot of their intolerant Muslim beliefs. Many of these values are incompatible with Western values. In what way can the government tell people to be more tolerant? They have zero loyalty to their country, but are extremely loyal to their faith.

This line of thought is why people on the left utterly fail when it comes to having answers to the problems that arise with Muslim integration. It can take generations for fundamentalist values to soften within a family. As long as these values take precedence over the values of the host country full integration will not happen.

The argument of closing the border and more strictly controlling who gets in to avoid the difficulty of integration is a more attractive one than letting more people in and telling established citizens that they may not live to see the day when the refugee population is fully integrated into society. The left is not going to win that argument.

 

[Violet_0]

Xenophobia is strong in this thread, wow.

European refugee crisis topics have been the ugliest threads on GAF for a long time now

 

[Audioboxer]

Not at all, I called it as I see it. The ones I meant to address fully know who they are, and they have not engaged in any kind of meaningful discussion either.

It looks like your comment about Mexicans and some others mischaracterizing the topic so far have not been met well, so fair enough if you didn't like my post but as others have said maybe reflect on silly comments like your Mexican one, and the other few posters trying to sum a largely mature and adult like debate as "diet racism" or "Xenophobia". If yourself and others value discussion and debate like you claim to say in your posts above, how can anyone have a complex and hard look at an atrocity like this if people don't actually read the topic and just rush in to sling unfounded insults and accusations?

If some of you were in government having to try and debate with bloodshed in your own country how on earth would you ever get any debating done when absolutely reasonable debates just get shot down and classed as right wing or some -ism of your choice? Life is not that simple, hence why I scold people behind keyboards in privileged positions acting incredibly egotistical around seriously complex topics.

 

[Zaph]

The crazy extreme of "increasing border control might prevent some terrorists from getting in"? You've repeatedly gone rocketing off as if I've said something else...

Because border controls and proper vetting sound great but are just simply extremely difficult/impossible when dealing with hundreds of thousands of refugees on your doorstep from third world, war-torn countries.

The stuff US and Canada does is easier (but still very difficult/impossible) because they're carefully plucking a handful of nuclear families and children - and not dealing with the vast majority of single, young men.

At some point you have to admit your vetting process is impossible for most refugees and is a nice way of saying no entry. But politicians won't admit this is just the price of accepting refugees, and instead keep beating the same drum of unrealistic vetting.

They didn't look at any of their documents and bank statements, just categorically denied any kind of visa.

Permanently moving to another country is a very complex process, one that needs an immigration solicitor/lawyer to properly submit the paperwork and handle red tape (they're not cheap, but from my experience dealing with employees, 100% necessary) - the civil servants on those desks are only going to give you basic advice and send you on your way.

They were probably dismissive because it's very, very unlikely your Peruvian in-laws have the type of money it would require for two pensioners to emigrate from a developing country to an expensive western country like Germany. I doubt a good solicitor would even bother with your case unless they could show hundreds of thousands (in Euros).

 

[MUnited83]

European refugee crisis topics have been the ugliest threads on GAF for a long time now

Sadly, that's correct. It has only gotten worse.

It looks like your comment about Mexicans and some others mischaracterizing the topic so far have not been met well, so fair enough if you didn't like my post but as others have said maybe reflect on silly comments like your Mexican one, and the other few posters trying to sum a largely mature and adult like debate as "diet racism" or "Xenophobia". If yourself and others value discussion and debate like you claim to say in your posts above, how can anyone have a complex and hard look at an atrocity like this if people don't actually read the topic and just rush in to sling unfounded insults and accusations?

? The Mexican comment makes sense. You're potentially preventing one of them from commiting a crime by completely closing the borders off any immigration.
What about that the 99.999% of them that isn't going to commit any crimes?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Yet all you can do is spout generalising bullshit instead of actually discussing. Using lives of other people in help of your crappy argument, even.
I've gone to this thread and talked about the far right fantasists in this thread. There's a few here, some that have showed that side several times before this. If you think I:m talking about you, well then, I guess the shoe fits.

What far right fantasies are going around in this thread?

Merkel should resign after this, she's an example of how to fuck over not only your country but the entirety of Europe.

The voters can have their say next year in Germany, that is good enough. But I don't really see a good alternative for Merkel also. At least she is a stable force, which the EU needs at the moment.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Not at all, I called it as I see it. The ones I meant to address fully know who they are, and they have not engaged in any kind of meaningful discussion either.

Do they? Am I one? Honest question, because you've quoted me a few times and I'm just confused more than anything.

Are you really saying that this:

You can also stop crimes and terrorism by just putting your entire population in a state prison. But that wouldn't be very logical or be practical at all.

It's like saying that you can't let Mexicans enter the us at all because one of them might be a rapist so hey, at least you prevented a rapist from getting in!

is your attempt at "meaningful discussion"?

 

[EloKa]

You came into this thread with accusations, generalizations and generally what seemed like an attempt to sabotage the pretty good discussiins we've had up to this point

spreading extreme right-wing ideology and denying any questions is - not - a good discussion.

also why do you now emphasize the germanic citizenship but deny the french citizenship in the other case?
Make up your mind or please just stop with that ideology that some people are more worth than others regarding their blood / ancestors or whatever. thanks.

 

[ittoryu]

Do they? Am I one? Honest question, because you've quoted me a few times and I'm just confused more than anything.

Are you really saying that this:



is your attempt at "meaningful discussion"?

I am still waiting for you to clarify few things from before, so I am not sure you should go around asking if another person is having or not a meaningful discussion

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

European refugee crisis topics have been the ugliest threads on GAF for a long time now

It's kind of interesting, because if some of these same sentiments were said in US-related thread, bans would most likely be swift.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I am still waiting for you to clarify few things from before, so I am not sure you should go around asking if another person is having or not a meaningful discussion

Sorry, ittoryu I try to reply to most people who quote me, I just look for the green boxes! I will go back.

 

[Garjon]

In my opinion, increasing border controls won't really help but may actually make the situation worse. The people doing these attacks are clever, strongly motivated, well organised and well funded - even if you specifically limit the number of Middle Eastern Asian men allowed in, there is still a good chance that you will let terrorists slip through the net anyway; we'll still be highly reliant on our security services to stop these attacks.

Meanwhile, those refugees are going nowhere and the longer you keep them herded in camps, the more likely that extremist, violent views take hold and the easier it will be for terrorist cells to recruit or even to form. ISIS and other terrorist groups are able to grow in support because of anti-Western sentiment. However, any world leader who pledges to improve relations with the Muslim world is going to get hammered by the press and the electorate - this crisis is not going away anytime soon and I worry that ISIS is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[MUnited83]

Do they? Am I one? Honest question, because you've quoted me a few times and I'm just confused more than anything.

Are you really saying that this:



is your attempt at "meaningful discussion"?

Do tell, how is blocking Mexicans in hope you're going to prevent a minimal percentage of them from committing crimes different from blocking refugees because one of them might be a terrorist? You guys keep on crying about "meaningful discussion" yet you can't even seem to be able to refute such a simple argument.

 

[cyba89]

I'm not up to the latest news but if it's true the guy they got is the wrong one then we know nothing about the actual perpetrator, right? (aside from eyewitness reports which are not always reliable)

Also no terror organization has claimed responsibility for this yet?

 

[leatherhat]

Because border controls and proper vetting sound great but are just simply extremely difficult/impossible when dealing with hundreds of thousands of refugees on your doorstep from third world, war-torn countries.

Many of these people are not from war torn countries, and if EU/German officials made it clear that people coming illegally would be turned away there would be significantly less people making the trip in the first place.

 

[ClosingADoor]

A bit of a break from the immigration debate going on. Interesting to see multiple countries around Europe are putting armed soldiers everywhere now at these events. Still don't know if that actually makes me feel safer or not, but better then nothing of course.

Hungary

France

And those barriers are going up all around on events to prevent these kind of attacks. Seems that will be the standard going forward then. Sad state of affairs.

Do tell, how is blocking Mexicans in hope you're going to prevent a minimal percentage of them from committing crimes different from blocking refugees because one of them might be a terrorist? You guys keep on crying about "meaningful discussion" yet you can't even seem to be able to refute such a simple argument.

I can't speak for others, but to me it is not so much about terrorist not coming in, although I think basic safety checks will help in preventing possible terrorists and criminals, but more the decades long struggle we will have with integrating people, which is already failing across Europe. And then the people living in parallel societies will be more vulnerable to things like crime, extremism, and even terrorism, as we have seen over the past years.