Freewheelin'
Member
Farrell is the only one making this show worthwhile tbh, he's the best actor BY FAR.
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True Detective - Season 2 - We get the Season we deserve - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Freewheelin'
Member
Whoops double post lol
Freewheelin'
Member
4 main characters is not too much. Fargo did justice to Martin Freeman, Colin Hanks, Alison Tolman and Billy Bob Thornton in just two more episodes.
Shows like The Wire juggle probably a hundred characters and do it fine.
I rewatched 12 Angry Men the other day; in the first 20 minutes you're able to pinpoint each of the 12's personalities and characteristics, and that's six hours shorter than TD. If you write it well, then you absolutely can do 4 mains correctly. Pizzolato just dropped the ball.
You're jumping to conclusions. You have no clue what's going to happen. Also, I'm thinking it's definitely not going to be that easy since they acquired the "hard" evidence quite illegally.
Even though they're working as a special, state-assigned unit, the state can't just present that evidence as is.
Daniel Attias directed the penultimate episode. The finale's director is still unknown.
Freewheelin'
Member
As for the season as a whole, I think its been almost like a parody of itself, if I'm honest. Lost in meandering character development instead of engaging plot, and that character development hasn't been strong enough to warrant it. Poor editing, curiously oblique plot (even if you follow it, it's still mind bogglingly boring), average to poor performances from almost everyone involved, and a hyper-stylised script that doesn't mesh with the characters and actors involved.
This week's was the first one where - even though six hours into an eight hour series it still feels like we're finding things out and setting the stage - some energy was injected into proceedings and some of that character development was used wisely (for McAdams at least; cliche as it was to use rape as her development, it at least ups stakes in a way Vaughn's adoption issues and Farrell's kid business don't).
It doesn't mesh from scene to scene; one may be well scored and look pretty, one may feature some standout acting (probably from Farrell), one may have a smidgen of interesting plot happenings, but none of it comes together to make a satisfying whole. A poor sophomore season to a show that, while not able to conclude in a manner as satisfying as some of its early episodes promised, had enough unique elements and a few mesmerising aspects - the leads and the direction chief amongst them - to make it stand out. TD S2 aspires to be far far greater than it is, without truly making the effort to do so.
This week's was the first one where - even though six hours into an eight hour series it still feels like we're finding things out and setting the stage - some energy was injected into proceedings and some of that character development was used wisely (for McAdams at least; cliche as it was to use rape as her development, it at least ups stakes in a way Vaughn's adoption issues and Farrell's kid business don't).
It doesn't mesh from scene to scene; one may be well scored and look pretty, one may feature some standout acting (probably from Farrell), one may have a smidgen of interesting plot happenings, but none of it comes together to make a satisfying whole. A poor sophomore season to a show that, while not able to conclude in a manner as satisfying as some of its early episodes promised, had enough unique elements and a few mesmerising aspects - the leads and the direction chief amongst them - to make it stand out. TD S2 aspires to be far far greater than it is, without truly making the effort to do so.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
there really is a sense that pizzaman figured out this season in the last 2-3 episodes but had to tread water to get us there. Which sucks, because that means that any time he could've used to make me sympathize and care for these characters is gone now and I'm just watching this to see how it ends since i'm already this deep
Final sentence of the episode that's supposed to reveal something or say something the viewer can assign importance to:
'These contracts...signatures all over them.'
LOLOLOLOLOL. Yes, fucking contracts tend to have sigs on them. The shock. Did he recognize one of them? If so, say the name and end the ep with that. Normally i would say that was the implication they want this sentence to have, but with this season...
'These contracts...signatures all over them.'
LOLOLOLOLOL. Yes, fucking contracts tend to have sigs on them. The shock. Did he recognize one of them? If so, say the name and end the ep with that. Normally i would say that was the implication they want this sentence to have, but with this season...
Anton Sugar
Member
I feel bad for Kitsch. Any attempt to develop (I use this term loosely this season) his character seems to have stopped with the past few episodes.
Where's his baby mama? Did the investigation solve his gay angst?
Where's his baby mama? Did the investigation solve his gay angst?
Caught the episode last night. That moon made me actually laugh at the end. What a plot twist though. Considering the moon must be much closer to the earth in order to appear that size, the gravitational forces must be wreaking havoc on the characters, which perfectly explains why everyone speaks in such hushed tones using dialog that often circles around the intended point for far too long. Their brains are just being pulled in all kinds of different directions.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
no worries, she appears in the preview for the next episode
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Hey anybody know that rock song that was playing while he
was doing all the coke/drugs?
Anton Sugar
Member
Oh perfect. I'm sure their rich arc will be wrapped up nice and neat.
"Human Being" by New York Dolls
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Cheers.
TheJollyCorner
Member
I'm really liking this season.
It's obviously very tonally different from S1, but it's still very engaging to me. I'm enjoying all of the primary roles. I'm sad that it's going to be over soon.
Now I guess I'll be tarred and feathered by all the S1 worshiping hipsters.
It's obviously very tonally different from S1, but it's still very engaging to me. I'm enjoying all of the primary roles. I'm sad that it's going to be over soon.
Now I guess I'll be tarred and feathered by all the S1 worshiping hipsters.
Except no one is complaining that it's not enough like season one.I'm really liking this season.
It's obviously very tonally different from S1, but it's still very engaging to me. I'm enjoying all of the primary roles. I'm sad that it's going to be over soon.
Now I guess I'll be tarred and feathered by all the S1 worshiping hipsters.
We're mad because the writing fucking sucks.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
you forgot to post:I'm really liking this season.
It's obviously very tonally different from S1, but it's still very engaging to me. I'm enjoying all of the primary roles. I'm sad that it's going to be over soon.
Now I guess I'll be tarred and feathered by all the S1 worshiping hipsters.
Anton Sugar
Member
Ding ding ding!
TheJollyCorner
Member
I guess I should have taken more creative writing classes, because it's not bothering me.
The only time I got tripped up was
the girl Vince's character finds with her throat slit vs. the girl Rachel's character finds at the party
Anton Sugar
Member
And that's just the dialogue. Each of the leads has almost zero character development outside of what we learned in the first 1-2 episodes.
Your tongue-in-cheek misdirection won't work against me, sorry.
The characters are flat. The dialogue is laughable. The pace is off. The plot, though I've never been lost, is still too disjointed. The setting is dull and bland. The cinematography has no vigor or vitality.
But if you can look past all of that and still enjoy it, good for you.
phazedplasma
Member
Cant wait for the pizzman interviews post season
Fargo had 13 episodes - that's a big difference.
plasmawave
Banned
And that's just the dialogue. Each of the leads has almost zero character development outside of what we learned in the first 1-2 episodes.
Who talks like that?
No it's not. It's ten.
And through six episodes, Fargo's characters were organic, well-developed people.
True Defective's aren't.
Transparent had four main characters, but you could make the argument for five, and another half-dozen secondary characters. They all had better development than this.
Rectify finished its first season in six episodes. There were five main characters, maybe six, plus a number of supporting characters. The development and characterization blow this out of the water.
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
Mind pointing me to these 3 extra episodes that I somehow missed?
To be honest, as much as I criticize this fuckin season, I can kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind of see Frank's character saying dumb shit like that in a sense of: similar to Stringer Bell in the Wire trying to use his "education" to hang and have "power" in the political parties, Frank uses his dumb thesaurus to high tended levels to try to push himself as a well-thought "not gangster" buisiness... thing. That said, I am more surprised that none of the actual characters around him, especially his wife, not calling him out on this shit harder and fucking point out how much of an idiot he is. On the realistic side, if Frank is supposed to be taken seriously in this aspect, then Pizzaman can go to hell lol.
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
This is how I talk when I'm drunk but trying to act like I'm not drunk by using big words but then accidentally overcompensate
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
And that's just the dialogue. Each of the leads has almost zero character development outside of what we learned in the first 1-2 episodes.
Hahahahahahahaha
-Pyromaniac-
Member
every time I read the first one I develop a headache less than an hour later.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
To be fair, wouldn't we have to compare True Detective to other shows that basically only have 1 writer?
Pizzolatto probably had a couple months to whip this together. Where with Season 1, those ideas could have been stirring around for years before the scripts were delivered.
The pressure was already hitting him before S1 was done. He's dipping out after Season 3. I bet HBO keeps it going after that point, but uses a writer's room.
I'm just glad things are improving. No matter how good these last two episodes are, there is no turning around the perception that this season was mediocre for most people. I'm still invested enough to see this until the end.
Pizzolatto probably had a couple months to whip this together. Where with Season 1, those ideas could have been stirring around for years before the scripts were delivered.
The pressure was already hitting him before S1 was done. He's dipping out after Season 3. I bet HBO keeps it going after that point, but uses a writer's room.
I'm just glad things are improving. No matter how good these last two episodes are, there is no turning around the perception that this season was mediocre for most people. I'm still invested enough to see this until the end.
Pizzolatto worked on the first season or versions of it for years. He definitely didn't have nearly as long to do this. But the problem is that he's been such a prick that I can't give him any leeway. He's the one who thought he could do this on his own, do this his way. Clearly, Nic, you couldn't.
Wait, there are people who thought episode five was "good"?
What?
Wait, there are people who thought episode five was "good"?
What?
dead souls
Member
Fucking preach. I couldn't agree more.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Jesus.
Pizzolatto definitely used "right-click, Synonym" while he was writing these scripts.
It's because Athena doesn't know her sister is secretly kinky.
Jesus.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I'm with Squalor and Freewheelin' on this one. At first, I thought it must be the number of main characters--but its not like this is Cloud Atlas or something like that. The plot is relatively simple but is a narrative mess in terms of how its told.
A big part of it (those lines, in particular) is the writing, but consider dialogue from Mamet or Tarantino, which isn't necessarily natural but still works the vast majority of the time. The reason they work is that a)the writer has a fully realized sense of "voice" that is consistent within the script, each of the characters, and the world; and b)the actors all understand what the director wants out of their performances.
I think of the "I've never even had a fucking cavity"--which isn't nearly as horrible as some of the pics I posted, but when Vince/Frank says it, it sounds ridiculous. At best, he sounds like he's trying to act tough.
There's no solid sense of "who" Frank is, so even dialogue that is fine can sound ridiculous, and bad dialogue sounds god awful.
I agree, to an extent, but if we're being "fair", I'm pretty sure it was Pizzolatto's decision to not utilize multiple writers or a writers' room.
TBH, going from S1, we all probably thought that was a good thing, right? "Yaaaay, S1 only had one writer--adding more writers will ruin his vision!" Now we know we underestimated Fukunaga's involvement and/or the amount of time Pizzolatto had been working on the story.
A big part of it (those lines, in particular) is the writing, but consider dialogue from Mamet or Tarantino, which isn't necessarily natural but still works the vast majority of the time. The reason they work is that a)the writer has a fully realized sense of "voice" that is consistent within the script, each of the characters, and the world; and b)the actors all understand what the director wants out of their performances.
I think of the "I've never even had a fucking cavity"--which isn't nearly as horrible as some of the pics I posted, but when Vince/Frank says it, it sounds ridiculous. At best, he sounds like he's trying to act tough.
There's no solid sense of "who" Frank is, so even dialogue that is fine can sound ridiculous, and bad dialogue sounds god awful.
I agree, to an extent, but if we're being "fair", I'm pretty sure it was Pizzolatto's decision to not utilize multiple writers or a writers' room.
TBH, going from S1, we all probably thought that was a good thing, right? "Yaaaay, S1 only had one writer--adding more writers will ruin his vision!" Now we know we underestimated Fukunaga's involvement and/or the amount of time Pizzolatto had been working on the story.
dead souls
Member
In season full of just dreadful writing this line might be my least favorite. How does something that bad even make it to the screen?
I did not see this post until now.
The thing about Stringer Bell was that you saw him in his community college course. He also had already been applying what he was learning to the Barksdale business before the events of Season 3 of The Wire.
What happened with Stringer came from his desire to grow into a legitimate business man in a fickle world.
I haven't seen Frank fumble around with a thesaurus or him tote around old British and Russian literature. What we have is a gangster with a vocabulary straight from the uncanny valley that puts Ph.D's to shame.
Chance Hale
Member
Frank's character is clearly putting on airs to appear more worldly as he tries to become legitimate. When he says that entire causal sense spiel his accomplice stares at him blankly for several seconds until he finally just comes out and says what he means. And in the scene with Blake he had a much more direct reaction to Frank's thesaurus act. It's very self aware and intentional.
Unless I missed some scene that establishes Frank is putting on airs, I can't buy it.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
What i wonder is why Frank was pushed out of the deal in the first place. It seems like everyone is negotiating around him and moving in on his territory but the guy had already given that stuff up.
Like, i don't get who would make these moves on frank outside of someone randomly wanting to make $5 million and it just happened to fuck frank over. Frank keeps looking for a conspiracy but the only conclusion i see to what happened to his money is just random bad luck.
i guess someone did go after Stan but I don't know what the motivation would be outside of Stan getting too close for his own good
Like, i don't get who would make these moves on frank outside of someone randomly wanting to make $5 million and it just happened to fuck frank over. Frank keeps looking for a conspiracy but the only conclusion i see to what happened to his money is just random bad luck.
i guess someone did go after Stan but I don't know what the motivation would be outside of Stan getting too close for his own good
Well, as was stated before, the land Frank was acquiring for $5 million wound up being worth way much more than that.
Perhaps Caspere didn't want to screw Frank over, so he wasn't going to turn on him, so the powers that be did away with Caspere. Sure, we know Caspere hadn't officially put Frank's name in the books before his death, but we can't say for certain he was screwing over Frank without more evidence. Maybe he just hadn't gotten around to it yet. There are a lot of logistics in underhanded dealings especially if you want to cover everyone's ass.
Perhaps Caspere's connection to the sex ring was his ultimate undoing, and the Frank stuff was just ancillary.
Or perhaps the sex ring was just a vehicle to get to him because of my first point.
Nevertheless, someone is purposely gunning for Frank now, and there are still a multitude of reasons why.
Immortal Technique
Member
edit: no I'm not going to get involved. Why do I read this thread lol
just in case you didn't get it, that pic was for quoting Dixon best lines, about him being tanned and saying something like "you know, I could give a fuck".
I actually liked that scene lol.
Anton Sugar
Member
What does this mean?