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[Ingueferroque]

Yup.

Be amazed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8x73UW8Hjk

Man, I forgot just how good season 1 was. Season 2 is like a parody of Season 1. All the bits they thought people liked, amped up to 11. Every character is Cohl.

What was with all of the drinking and pouring in the episode before last? It was so strange. Almost every other scene.

 

[Discotheque]

Catching up on the third season of hannibal now and this show I used to put way above that in season 1 but now it suffers from the same problem as that series, a bunch of babbling dialogue that sounds so unnatural coming out of people's mouthes

A Marty-like character really would have done wonders for this season. Farrell keeps me entertained but overall it's just a chore to listen to

Hannibal's got a more exciting plot tho, do the fans of this season of TD even care about the mystery?

 

[The Driver]

Catching up on the third season of hannibal now and this show I used to put way above that in season 1 but now it suffers from the same problem as that series, a bunch of babbling dialogue that sounds so unnatural coming out of people's mouthes

A Marty-like character really would have done wonders for this season. Farrell keeps me entertained but overall it's just a chore to listen to

Hannibal's got a more exciting plot tho, do the fans of this season of TD even care about the mystery?

I'm mildly interested to see what's up with Birdman (who he is/why he does what he does) but other than that, the so far "real" villains, the land guys, are boring asf. Honestly, hearing the shit Caspere is involved with I'm glad he's dead lmao. Sounded like a prick.

I'll be okay when the finale ends with everyone besides Ani dead, she's the only one who isn't a parasite to everyone around her. Hopefully our guys arrest/kill as many as possible before they go but whatevs. Not saying I don't like Kitsch, Vaughn, or Farrell though, just that they are all terrible people.

 

[lamaroo]

McShane is awesome but I think he's too old to play the role of a mid tier street thug trying to make moves up the social ladder.

I got sad when I watched John Wick and saw how old he was getting.

 

[robertsan21]

Man this season is so bad compared to the first one, its not even close. I dont care about the characters at all, nor do I find the story interesting.

This last episode was good thanks to all the naked ladies in it, thats about it.

Seeing that there is only a few episodes left, I will continue watching, but man I could just as well be over with this show.

To bad they totally missed the mark on season 2 when season 1 was so amazing.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Frank's character is clearly putting on airs to appear more worldly as he tries to become legitimate. When he says that entire causal sense spiel his accomplice stares at him blankly for several seconds until he finally just comes out and says what he means. And in the scene with Blake he had a much more direct reaction to Frank's thesaurus act. It's very self aware and intentional.

If that's the case then the script should have Colin laugh at him or something and call him out on his pretentiousness. Has any character laughed a single time in this season? Has the audience (un-ironically)?

 

[Robot Pants]

Whoever was the casting director for this season should probably be reevaluated.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Whoever was the casting director for this season should probably be reevaluated.

It looks like there was a pair of casting directors for each season who work together on lots of shows. Season 1 was Alexa Fogel/Chrstine Kromer who've done casting for The Wire, Treme and Banshee. Not a lot of shows but all great casting.

Season 2 is Libby Goldstein and June Lowry-Johnston with a lot more credits and varied results like The Night Shift, Dig, Recitfy, Longmire, True Blood and Deadwood. How on earth can you go from Deadwood to casting Vince Vaughn as a gangster ?

 

[Anton Sugar]

How on earth can you go from Deadwood to casting Vince Vaughn as a gangster ?

It sounds like Pizzolatto had some say in it.

Catching up on the third season of hannibal now and this show I used to put way above that in season 1 but now it suffers from the same problem as that series, a bunch of babbling dialogue that sounds so unnatural coming out of people's mouthes

A Marty-like character really would have done wonders for this season. Farrell keeps me entertained but overall it's just a chore to listen to

Hannibal's got a more exciting plot tho, do the fans of this season of TD even care about the mystery?

Hannibal S3 definitely starts sloooow and is too oblique for its own good in those first few episodes, but around Ep 4 or 5 it picks up, and the mid-season finale (ep 7) is probably one of my fav episodes of the series.

Ep 8 "The Great Red Dragon" is fantastic and a return to what S2 great. Let me know what you think!

 

[demon]

It sounds like Pizzolatto had some say in it.



Hannibal S3 definitely starts sloooow and is too oblique for its own good in those first few episodes, but around Ep 4 or 5 it picks up, and the mid-season finale (ep 7) is probably one of my fav episodes of the series.

Ep 8 "The Great Red Dragon" is fantastic and a return to what S2 great. Let me know what you think!

Oh man that's good to hear, I gave up on it after episode 3 or 4. The show kind of went up its own ass with the dialogue but I still want to finish it.

 

[dead souls]

Yeah, Hannibal has definitely righted the ship with the last two episodes, which I don't think is going to happen with this.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

so bad

 

[Stoze]

That doesn't seem like plagiarism to me. Not like I'm an expert on the subject or anything but it seems more like he's been influenced by Ligotti and isn't plagiarizing him.

Everyone does this. Pretty much any creative idea you have will be a combination of other people's creative works you've seen over the course of your life.

Yeah, heavy influence and inspiration is not plagraism. I mean in that article they use like 4 different quotes from different parts of Ligotti's book to align it similarly to one thing Rust says.

Even in that write up they say that Pizzolatto has mentioned Ligotti a couple times in interviews, but apparently that's not enough because he didn't come out first and say "Rust is directly influenced from Ligotti" or some shit. It's nitpicking imo.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Yeah, heavy influence and inspiration is not plagraism. I mean in that article they use like 4 different quotes from different parts of Ligotti's book to align it similarly to one thing Rust says.

Even in that write up they say that Pizzolatto has mentioned Ligotti a couple times in interviews, but apparently that's not enough because he didn't come out first and say "Rust is directly influenced from Ligotti" or some shit. It's nitpicking imo.

You're way off in thinking its similar to "one thing Rust says". LOTS of Ligotti's writing is used as inspiration in a number of Rust's monologues.

Like I said, I don't think it's straight plagiarizing, but it is clear that he took bits and pieces from Ligotti's writing and injected them into Rust's dialogue.

 

[Stoze]

You're way off in thinking its similar to "one thing Rust says". LOTS of Ligotti's writing is used as inspiration in a number of Rust's monologues.

Like I said, I don't think it's straight plagiarizing, but it is clear that he took bits and pieces from Ligotti's writing and injected them into Rust's dialogue.

I didn't mean it like that, I meant in that article at one point they compare one sentence of Rust's dialouge and try to match it up with four different lines scattered throughout The Conspiracy of the Human Race as some kind of proof. They do it with 3 lines as well. He definitely does say a lot of Ligotti esque stuff which is the point of the write up, and they do show examples where one line of True Detective is very similar to another from Ligotti's book.

Like I said, they briefly mention in that write up that Pizzolatto has acknowledged Ligotti's influence. Maybe not as much as they would've liked, but still.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I didn't mean it like that, I meant in that article at one point they compare one sentence of Rust's dialouge and try to match it up with four different lines scattered throughout The Conspiracy of the Human Race as some kind of proof. They do it with 3 lines as well. He definitely does say a lot of Ligotti esque stuff which is the point of the write up, and they do show examples where one line of True Detective is very similar to another from Ligotti's book.

Like I said, they briefly mention in that write up that Pizzolatto has acknowledged Ligotti's influence. Maybe not as much as they would've liked, but still.

I see, my mistake.

I don't have as much fervor regarding this when compared to the author of that article, but I think this is the key that really bugs me:

And I asked myself if Nic Pizzolatto had given Thomas Ligotti “due acknowledgement”. Unfortunately, there appear to be only two instances where Pizzolatto has mentioned Ligotti at all. Worse, to date Pizzolatto has only acknowledged Ligotti when he is directly asked about him — in other words, when he has no choice. On the DVD commentary, there is not one word about Thomas Ligotti. Pizzolatto mentions that Matthew McConaughey’s character sometimes borrows philosophical ideas from Nietzsche, the 19th century German philosopher, but there is no mention of Ligotti.

Writers work hard to produce original ideas, stories, and dialogue, and it is unfair for another writer to pawn off those ideas as their own. Mr. Pizzolatto has been nominated for an Emmy for writing True Detective, while Thomas Ligotti labors in near obscurity. Though I have agonized over whether I should write this article, in the end I felt that morally I have no choice.

In no way do I think that Ligotti is solely responsible for the successful writing of the first season (most of my posts about him stealing from Ligotti are tongue-in-cheek), but if you've read Conspiracy, it's clear that Ligotti's ideas and way of writing had a big influence on the character of Rust.

 

[Stoze]

I see, my mistake.

I don't have as much fervor regarding this when compared to the author of that article, but I think this is the key that really bugs me:

I agree with you. I just think that article is very hyperbolic. Pizzo should've gave more credit considering Rust definitely takes on Ligotti more than everything else, but at least he was acknowledged. That bolded part is silly to me without further context though. I mean he could've been asked, "Is Rust inspired by Ligotti's CoTHR?" "Oh yeah, absolutely". But we wouldn't know because the write up clearly has an agenda, or didn't bother getting good detail.

So yeah, Rust is clearly influenced by Ligotti, but I wouldn't call it plagiarism personally, especially going by that write up.

 

[-griffy-]

if you read this

in McShane's Swearengen voice, it's almost not that bad

also, today i learned that David Milch called Pizzolatto "one of the best writers I've encountered"

You have Swearengen say that (with a couple more fucks and replace any instance of "Caspere" with "the cocksucker"), being purposefully verbose, and then E.B. replying "You think Ossip had something to do with Caspere's death, Al?" and Swearengen coming back "Don't fucking repeat to me what I just said." That's a pretty typical and amusing Deadwood scene, only that dialog style fits with the tone, period and voice of the show, and those types of scenes work because they have proper context with character relationships and traits that have been established remarkably well.

But Frank saying it on True Detective was just an actor barfing out dialog. It wasn't played for anything, there doesn't seem to be any reason this character would speak like that other than that is the dialog that was written.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You have Swearengen say that (with a couple more fucks and replace any instance of "Caspere" with "the cocksucker"), being purposefully verbose, and then E.B. replying "You think Ossip had something to do with Caspere's death, Al?" and Swearengen coming back "Don't fucking repeat to me what I just said." That's a pretty typical and amusing Deadwood scene, only that dialog style fits with the tone, period and voice of the show, and those types of scenes work because they have proper context with character relationships and traits that have been established remarkably well.

But Frank saying it on True Detective was just an actor barfing out dialog. It wasn't played for anything, there doesn't seem to be any reason this character would speak like that other than that is the dialog that was written.

Yeah, I can totally hear Swayjin reading that line and, somehow, making it work. McShane's a wizard.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

also, today i learned that David Milch called Pizzolatto "one of the best writers I've encountered"

david no

 

[The Driver]

Is Deadwood really good? Had a English professor who loved to go off on tangents and talk about it's awesome dialogue which he said is almost musical in quality because so much of it is in iambic pentameter apparently.

Idk, I guess I should watch it, only 3 seasons and ain't sheeeit on that I watch besides this and the Strain lmao.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Is Deadwood really good? Had a English professor who loved to go off on tangents and talk about it's awesome dialogue which he said is almost musical in quality because so much of it is in iambic pentameter apparently.

Idk, I guess I should watch it, only 3 seasons and ain't sheeeit on that I watch besides this and the Strain lmao.

Deadwood is incredible. Especially the first season, which is basically perfect.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'm not ready to call Pizza a hack, though I'm curious what he'll say in response to criticism.

Most writers' first drafts are clunky as shit, so I'm curious what his process was and how satisified he was with the scripts. I know he said he thinks its his best yet, its very personal to him, "I wrote a character more complex than Rust", etc.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

I'm not ready to call Pizza a hack, though I'm curious what he'll say in response to criticism.

Most writers' first drafts are clunky as shit, so I'm curious what his process was and how satisified he was with the scripts. I know he said he thinks its his best yet, its very personal to him, "I wrote a character more complex than Rust", etc.

Which character is more complex than Rust?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Which character is more complex than Rust?

Sigh... we've been through this...

Spoiler

Stan

 

[Freewheelin']

Deadwood is an extraordinary piece of work.

 

[Catdaddy]

Is she saying her sister is loose?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Which character is more complex than Rust?

Can't find the article However, in my searching, I did find this:

HBO: Earlier last year, you said that this season was about ‘Bad men, hard women and the secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system.’ Is that still true?

"It’s not, I’m afraid. There’s definitely bad men and hard women, but no secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system. That was a comment from very early in the process, and something I ended up discarding in favor of closer character work and a more grounded crime story. The complexity of the historical conspiracy first conceived detracted from the characters and their reality, I felt, and those characters are ultimately what have to shape the world and story. So I moved away from that.​"

It's pretty late in the game and obvious at this point, but I know some posters were still holding out for weird shit to get mixed in.

 

[RangerX]

Is she saying her sister is loose?

No she is saying the exact opposite. That she is as dry as the gobi desert.

 

[plasmawave]

 

[Stoze]

Is she saying her sister is loose?

That's Anti's sister saying it to her, erasers clapping = dusty vagina.

Basically telling Anti to fuck off and get laid

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Can't find the article However, in my searching, I did find this:



It's pretty late in the game and obvious at this point, but I know some posters were still holding out for weird shit to get mixed in.

birdman plz come back

 

[Robot Pants]

I'm not ready to call Pizza a hack, though I'm curious what he'll say in response to criticism.

Most writers' first drafts are clunky as shit, so I'm curious what his process was and how satisified he was with the scripts. I know he said he thinks its his best yet, its very personal to him, "I wrote a character more complex than Rust", etc.

Yikes.
Then I'd also love to hear what he was to say in response to the criticism. Id be ok with him if he didn't exactly love this season because it was rushed. But if he really feels this is his best yet then..... Wow I just don't know. Maybe the directing is really bringing this down (it is), and the time constraints didn't help either.

I think this type of show requires one dedicated director otherwise it all kind of falls apart. Or ends up all over the map, just like this season.

Then again some of this dialogue is just fucking awful. So maybe pizzolotto isn't so great.

 

[The Driver]

birdman plz come back

For real though, we haven't seen or felt them for like 3 episodes, unless you count hearing about them rob that family.

 

[kirblar]

Oh man that's good to hear, I gave up on it after episode 3 or 4. The show kind of went up its own ass with the dialogue but I still want to finish it.

Fuller all but said they didn't have enough material to fill 7 eps and had to stretch.

 

[Stoze]

Yikes.
Then I'd also love to hear what he was to say in response to the criticism. Id be ok with him if he didn't exactly love this season because it was rushed. But if he really feels this is his best yet then..... Wow I just don't know. Maybe the directing is really bringing this down (it is), and the time constraints didn't help either.

I think this type of show requires one dedicated director otherwise it all kind of falls apart. Or ends up all over the map, just like this season.

Then again some of this dialogue is just fucking awful. So maybe pizzolotto isn't so great.

I mean last season was a miracle of television that we got a director for the entire season, and a very good one at that. But honestly I don't think the direction this season has been much of a problem in this show outside of a few scenes.

I'm curious to hear what he has to say about criticism following this season as well. If he ends up writing another season by himself in less than a year, I think we're going to see the same problems next year in S3. Dude needs more time or needs to hire more writers.

 

[Blader]

I always thought the plagiarism calls were bullshit. That link upthread shows exactly why it's such a reach: you have to pick out a handful of quotes and mash em up together -- rephrasing much of it at the same time -- to get Rust's lines.

Ok, so Pizzaman was inspired by another author. So what? Does the show need to pause every 5 minutes so he can cite his sources? Does he need to name drop Ligotti in every interview to cover his bases?

If there was dialogue straight lifted from another book or wherever, then yeah, absolutely plagiarism. But as is, the argument always felt like a reach to me.

birdman plz come back

I really don't think birdman is going to be anyone/anything weird. We're expecting that from last season because there was a cult of animal mask wearing fucks who rituallisticaly raped and murdered children. In this case, I think it's just that the shooter didn't want Ray to ID him and so he just put a bird mask over his head because that was the nearest thing.

Basically, I think birdman was just a simple disguise, rather than a cultish costume.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Who is a young Ian McShane nowadays?

 

[kirblar]

In S1, most of the ripped dialogue was coming out of Rust's mouth- and he was exactly the guy who would read and spout that kind of stuff. Repurposing it there wasn't an issue as it made sense contextually.

S2, though, is just cliche after cliche that have a lot of similarities to other works, like they've been put through a crappy xerox machine.

 

[-griffy-]

In S1, most of the ripped dialogue was coming out of Rust's mouth- and he was exactly the guy who would read and spout that kind of stuff. Repurposing it there wasn't an issue as it made sense contextually.

S2, though, is just cliche after cliche that have a lot of similarities to other works, like they've been put through a crappy xerox machine.

This script is like a Xerox of a Xerox, and the machine is running out of ink.

 

[LaneDS]

Last page just makes me miss Deadwood.

I can't make it through a single episode of TD season 2 without laughing loudly at a few scenes, which I've at least found an unexpected enjoyment in.

 

[Anton Sugar]

This script is like a Xerox of a Xerox, and the machine is running out of ink.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Bravo.

I can just hear his flat delivery.

 

[lamaroo]

Is Deadwood really good? Had a English professor who loved to go off on tangents and talk about it's awesome dialogue which he said is almost musical in quality because so much of it is in iambic pentameter apparently.

Idk, I guess I should watch it, only 3 seasons and ain't sheeeit on that I watch besides this and the Strain lmao.

It's the best show of all time imo.

 

[-griffy-]

 

[Grinchy]

It's the best show of all time imo.

Really? I loved the first season and enjoyed the second season. The third season was almost torture. I can completely see why it was canceled.

 

[blainethemono]

from TCA 15 just now

 

[Salsa]

isnt S3 already signed

 

[lamaroo]

Really? I loved the first season and enjoyed the second season. The third season was almost torture. I can completely see why it was canceled.

Almost torture? C'mon man, hyperbole much?

Some of the best scenes and episodes in the show come from season three. The final three episodes are an incredible run. Didn't even mention the performances, Gerald McRaney was a force.

 

[jonezer4]

They could pull the most satisfying, greatest ending of all time out of their asses in the next two episodes; I don't think it salvages the season.

A badass ending might save a movie, 'cause I just had to stomach 90 minutes of shit to get to it. But we're 360 minutes into this bitch. Having a solid ending just won't justify the season's existence to me.

(And all that considered, I sincerely doubt TD season 2 can actually have the one of the most satisfying endings of all time considering I give zero shits about the mystery and zero shits about 3/4 of the cast).