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[kirblar]

TD may end up having the "First Story Arc" problem that plagues many comics. The author spends so much time and effort working on the initial pitch and opening and it's something great...... then the follow ups done under time pressure instead end up way lower in quality.

 

[shira]

I just rewatching S1 and I got to the

Spoiler

making flowers

part in E8. No way I can sleep now.

 

[megamerican]

I find the reviews pretty troubling. More of a conventional TV show look / feel, no supernatural elements, no levity...

Sounds like everything I feared from the trailer is coming to pass.

 

[Fjordson]

It was less than great when it originally aired. The terrible final episode alone drops it from that category.

In your opinion, which I'm not trying to change. I meant if someone thought S1 was good, it would be weird to somehow not think that because of a later season. Especially when each season is self contained.

 

[NeoGiff]

You know, Rust, we really are the True Detectives.

 

[Roussow]

Those character posters in the OT don't look so hot, reminds me of this:

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I'm watching some of these trailers again, and I guffaw out loud every time I see Colin Ferrel say "I welcome judgment."

I just keep imagining how ponderous the dialogue might be. Like, the flowery dialogue made sense for Rust Cohle, but if Pizzaman transplants that on some random douchebag narco cop played by Colin Ferrel, I am gonna keep laughing myself silly cause I'll keep imagining dialogue even more pretentious than that.

 

[Discotheque]

In your opinion, which I'm not trying to change. I meant if someone thought S1 was good, it would be weird to somehow not think that because of a later season. Especially when each season is self contained.

this is true. but i also don't understand the mindset of people who shit on previous entries of a series after a lackluster sequel.

but i do think the first season lost steam when they showed the killer, it became kind of corny and after that was only carried by the great lead performances and directing. a lot of these recent detective mysteries haven't been able to stick the landing tho, i also found prisoners to be goofy as hell near the ending of the film lol.

 

[Gobias]

How could someone retroactively turn on a static and unchanging piece of entertainment? Season 1 of TD will never be less than great lol.

People do it all the time. I guess I'm more referring to the complaints that this season seems to be getting. Direction not as good and long stretches of philosophical dialogue. It seems like people are turning on Pizzaman and his writing and more crediting seasons one's successes to other factors such as the direction, cinematography and the right actors to deliver his dialogue. I do like the first season, but it seems like season two's problems are surfacing because people like Fukunaga are no longer there to elevate it.

 

[Norwegian Rudo]

I think another thing is that being pretty much exclusively a TV territory guy, he's a go-to person when you want to get a pilot shoot done, but not so much a name brand to sell a package with. I've noticed the ones who seem to get really good deals for launching shows tend to be movie directors dipping into high profile TV stuff.

I believe all pilot directors have a cut of the show as part of the Director's Guild labour agreement.

 

[WarrenMax007]

There are amazing photos of two actresses from season 2 on GQ's site, i don't know if i can share it or not, it's NSFW, but OH MY GOD.

 

[Squalor]

Damn, season two is down to 61. It's about to hit that yellow threshold.

How could someone retroactively turn on a static and unchanging piece of entertainment? Season 1 of TD will never be less than great lol.

No one is turning on season one.

It's still great. No one is saying it isn't. The same complains people have now about season one are the same ones people voiced last year: the writing was a little heavy handed and overwrought at times. There wasn't much character development aside from Marty and Rust. Sure, other characters had personalities, but that doesn't mean they have character development.

Despite those things, the show was still great.

However, now that people have seen three episodes of season two, it seems Fukunaga and the lead actors were much more instrumental to bringing Pizzolatto's words to life than what some might have previously thought.

 

[Cornballer]

- Daily Beast Review: ‘True Detective’ Season 2: More Is Less, But Rachel McAdams Gives Us Hope

No, it doesn’t achieve the lyrically haunting brilliance of Season 1, but there is still plenty of promise buried beneath the carcasses of Nic Pizzolatto’s crime drama, premiering June 21.

- Vox: True Detective season 2 leads HBO’s most disappointing lineup ever

But the greatest struggle both seasons of True Detective share is that they clearly believe they're doing something far more original and weighty than they actually are. True Detective, at its best and worst, is a gorgeous but hollow plunge into the depths of man's brutality against man, with particular emphasis on the "man" in that phrase.

There's nothing wrong with examining the idea of masculinity, but True Detective too regularly acts as if it's the first TV show to ever stop and consider such a thought. Or, put another way, True Detective's second season might eventually escape the shadow of its first, but it can never entirely escape the fact that it's still True Detective.

- Washington Post: ‘True Detective’ season 2 is the embarrassing television show we deserve

Pizzolatto has groused about judging his shows before watching them all the way to the end, a complaint that misses the point that, even in the age of Netflix and other services, most episodic television airs in weekly installments on networks, rather than being released ready-to-binge, and thus still has the obligation to be amusing on a week-by-week basis. But even if I were to indulge him, and to judge only the writing and performances in the three episodes made available to critics before the premiere, rather than speculating about the plot, there are some truly embarrassing things happening in the second season of “True Detective” that I doubt will be redeemed by a fourth-quarter revelation that the whole enterprise is actually a parody.

- NY Post: One-season wonder? New ‘True Detective’ falls flat

If “True Detective” is going to be more than a vehicle for eclipsed stars trying to reignite their careers, Pizzolatto and company will have to dig deeper for a story that entertains —and impresses us as definitively as its predecessor. 2.5/4.0 stars

- Newsday: 'True Detective' review: Not season 1, for better or worse

BOTTOM LINE: Cliche L.A. noir detective fiction in Sunday's opener, but gets better -- and more original -- over the subsequent two episodes.

- SJ Mercury News: http://www.mercurynews.com/entertai...ue-detective-delivers-another-dark-and-twisty

For Season 2, Pizzolatto wisely didn't try to repeat himself. But the new saga, at least early on, is much more crowded and kicks up a lot of narrative detritus. Consequently, it takes time to gain some traction. Also, the show has inched closer to a typical crime procedural, so you don't quite get the feeling that you're watching something extraordinarily fresh.

That doesn't mean "True Detective" isn't worth some of your valuable DVR space. All of the lead actors dig deeply into their roles, with Farrell playing the wary, weary burnout to perfection, and Vaughn shifting into full-throttle intensity. The story is dark and atmospheric -- just the way fans like it. Meanwhile, the first three episodes hint at enough buried secrets and fresh angles to indicate that the story still has a lot to give.

 

[afternoon delight]

We'll see how things play out. Without spoiling anything, by episode 3 in the first season not much was defined either.

Never expected a repeat, just want more.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

If everyone starts to retroactively turn on season one and Pizza I want everyone to know I thought it was overrated before it was cool!

If the reception and reviews remain lukewarm as they have, then surely season one will be elevated even higher.

How could someone retroactively turn on a static and unchanging piece of entertainment? Season 1 of TD will never be less than great lol.

You've never seen MovieGAF.

 

[bob_arctor]

Don't care about reviews. Veep just ended. iZombie ended. Orphan Black ends soon. Need my True Detective fix. Nothing stops this train!

 

[Blader]

There's nothing wrong with examining the idea of masculinity, but True Detective too regularly acts as if it's the first TV show to ever stop and consider such a thought. Or, put another way, True Detective's second season might eventually escape the shadow of its first, but it can never entirely escape the fact that it's still True Detective.

This reeks of a reviewer projecting his own feelings about Pizzaman onto the show.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Hope this delivers. If this and The Brink are both bad, I won't have many shows to keep me from going outside this summer!

 

[Squalor]

Hope this delivers. If this and The Brink are both bad, I won't have many shows to keep me from going outside this summer!

Of course you will. The best show this summer will be Rectify season three.

 

[Cornballer]

- Colin Farrell talking TD S2 on The Tonight Show (youtube)

 

[The One Who Knocks]

How could someone retroactively turn on a static and unchanging piece of entertainment? Season 1 of TD will never be less than great lol.

The issue would not be that the show/season's quality changed, but that the viewers interpretation has. While watching or reading a piece of entertainment for the first time, particularly upon release at a time of connectivity where media, opinions, and analysis are available at a click of a button the instant of release, there is, for many, a perception that you need to immediately state your opinion, or within a very short period of time. This media carries with it a lot of baggage due to the cultural context of its release, as things such as the writer/author's previous material, actors, the director, themes that are dealt with and the maturity with which they are handled (the context matters so much here because while the themes themselves may have been trod upon repeatedly already, they may resonate more fiercely based upon how many others have dealt with them recently, or events which have happened to bring these themes to the forefront of of media attention), the perception of others, media coverage, and comprarisons to other material can greatly influence your opinions, especially in the immediate aftermath when you have not had the ability to meditate upon what you've seen, and are still in the 'high' of consuming the media. In television, where you are being drip-fed segments of the story, this has an even greater impact as the quality of prior episodes and the 'atmosphere' generated by fans speculating about what will happen and continuous analysis makes it easy to be 'caught up' in the experience of viewing the show and shade one's impression of the quality of episodes, and the impression of the show before (or even after) the entire story is told. While obviously first perceptions of the quality of the show may be accurate in some cases, for many individuals, their impression becomes marred by this atmosphere, as they get 'caught up in the hype' and their own excitement of the show and look upon it more favourably than they would had they time to meditate more objectively upon the show (this also works in reverse, where you can look on it far more negatively of course). This can be frequently seen when games or movies in particular are released, and the general progression of opinions visible on this board, where quite often something may garnish universal praise, followed by a backlash, and then a settling of opinions (that is to say the individuals themselves have had their opinions settle, opinions on the quality of the item itself may still be hugely divisive). When there is such an ease of availability of opinions available so immediately, many may feel the need to comment in the window of conclusion while their mind is still abuzz and without having properly reflected.

This is to say nothing about True Detective itself, or the quality of the show, but it isn't a foreign concept for opinions of a show /piece of media to alter as time progresses, given various relevant factors which are present.

 

[big ander]

I cannot watch some great seasons of television because of some shitty later work, for example Dexter and HIMYM

But to be fair, TD S1 is a finished work, it doesn't have any ties to the future episodes, so that makes it different.

Hm, I'm not sure I agree that later and lesser seasons of TV shows completely flip my opinions on earlier seasons, but I do think that the ways later seasons are bad can clarify what about the show was good in the first place. Using Dexter: some watched it treated it as a very serious and important show, but right from the early seasons that it was a high-wire ridiculous pulpy thriller. The ways the later seasons go wrong made it clear that the early seasons weren't nuanced boundary-pushing drama, they were garish twisted fun.

 

[Fjordson]

The issue would not be that the show/season's quality changed, but that the viewers interpretation has. While watching or reading a piece of entertainment for the first time, particularly upon release at a time of connectivity where media, opinions, and analysis are available at a click of a button the instant of release, there is, for many, a perception that you need to immediately state your opinion, or within a very short period of time. This media carries with it a lot of baggage due to the cultural context of its release, as things such as the writer/author's previous material, actors, the director, themes that are dealt with and the maturity with which they are handled (the context matters so much here because while the themes themselves may have been trod upon repeatedly already, they may resonate more fiercely based upon how many others have dealt with them recently, or events which have happened to bring these themes to the forefront of of media attention), the perception of others, media coverage, and comprarisons to other material can greatly influence your opinions, especially in the immediate aftermath when you have not had the ability to meditate upon what you've seen, and are still in the 'high' of consuming the media. In television, where you are being drip-fed segments of the story, this has an even greater impact as the quality of prior episodes and the 'atmosphere' generated by fans speculating about what will happen and continuous analysis makes it easy to be 'caught up' in the experience of viewing the show and shade one's impression of the quality of episodes, and the impression of the show before (or even after) the entire story is told. While obviously first perceptions of the quality of the show may be accurate in some cases, for many individuals, their impression becomes marred by this atmosphere, as they get 'caught up in the hype' and their own excitement of the show and look upon it more favourably than they would had they time to meditate more objectively upon the show (this also works in reverse, where you can look on it far more negatively of course). This can be frequently seen when games or movies in particular are released, and the general progression of opinions visible on this board, where quite often something may garnish universal praise, followed by a backlash, and then a settling of opinions (that is to say the individuals themselves have had their opinions settle, opinions on the quality of the item itself may still be hugely divisive). When there is such an ease of availability of opinions available so immediately, many may feel the need to comment in the window of conclusion while their mind is still abuzz and without having properly reflected.

This is to say nothing about True Detective itself, or the quality of the show, but it isn't a foreign concept for opinions of a show /piece of media to alter as time progresses, given various relevant factors which are present.

Sure, but none of that is what I was responding to lol. That a later season or sequel being bad would suddenly make what preceded it bad. I mean S1 of TD ended a year ago so we're past the initial hype phase.

Like ander said, I think it can actually reinforce what was good about what came before. Like Fukunaga's direction or the chemistry between Woody and McConaughey

edit: that Washington Post headline. Goddamn lol ‘True Detective’ season 2 is the embarrassing television show we deserve"

 

[kirblar]

From the Vox article:

True Detective has always wholeheartedly subscribed to the notion that life is a box of shit-covered chocolates and you're pretty sure what you're going to get. (Hint: it's covered in shit.) But Pizzolatto has generally excelled at embellishing that idea with philosophical discussions and the occasional mordant laugh line. The problem is that his new season two cast too often swallows those lines. Farrell in particular delivers the line, "I support feminism. Mostly by having body issues," as if he were very seriously taking a "How feminist are you?" quiz on BuzzFeed, when it's clearly meant to be a humorous release valve.

At this point I'm expecting them to wait longer on S3 so that they have scripts in hand prior to casting. You don't want to be having your actors delivering lines like they're Halle Berry in X-Men.

 

[Fjordson]

True Detective has always wholeheartedly subscribed to the notion that life is a box of shit-covered chocolates and you're pretty sure what you're going to get. (Hint: it's covered in shit.)

lmao. What have you done Pizzaman.

 

[Cornballer]

A couple of podcasts with some TD S2 discussion:

- Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan talk True Detective S2 and Deutschland 83 on the Grantland podcast
- Sepinwall and Fienberg discuss the new season on this week's podcast

 

[True Savior]

lmao. What have you done Pizzaman.

I laughed out loud but when did reviewing became insulting ?

 

[jett]

Ewww at these reviews.

Season 2 of TD was a mistake.

 

[Squalor]

From the Vox article:...

At this point I'm expecting them to wait longer on S3 so that they have scripts in hand prior to casting. You don't want to be having your actors delivering lines like they're Halle Berry in X-Men.

What the Vox guy said isn't necessarily true. It's as simple as the director's saying "Cut" and "Redo."

If not that, it's as simple as Pizzolatto's saying "No, the line is meant to be humorous."

Maybe it was actually supposed to be read that way. That doesn't mean it's good, but reviews shouldn't get into questioning whether a line was read correctly, Just review what you see and hear.

 

[big ander]

What the Vox guy said isn't necessarily true. It's as simple as the director's saying "Cut" and "Redo."

If not that, it's as simple as Pizzolatto's saying "No, the line is meant to be humorous."

Maybe it was actually supposed to be read that way. That doesn't mean it's good, but reviews shouldn't get into questioning whether a line was read correctly, Just review what you see and hear.

Which...is exactly what that review is saying? That is seems like it might be a laugh line, but isn't read that way, so it doesn't work. Which could be attributed to the actor, the director, the writer—doesn't exactly matter. The review puts it on Farrell and implicates Pizza but the overall point is just that it does not work.

 

[-griffy-]

TD may end up having the "First Story Arc" problem that plagues many comics. The author spends so much time and effort working on the initial pitch and opening and it's something great...... then the follow ups done under time pressure instead end up way lower in quality.

That's actually not an uncommon phenomena in TV as it is. The pilot and/or first season have years of development and thought put into them, and then subsequent episodes/seasons are done under a normal/accelerated schedule and things never hit that high again.

 

[Squalor]

Which...is exactly what that review is saying? That is seems like it might be a laugh line, but isn't read that way, so it doesn't work. Which could be attributed to the actor, the director, the writer—doesn't exactly matter. The review puts it on Farrell and implicates Pizza but the overall point is just that it does not work.

No, it's not, which the line from the review "when it's clearly meant to be a humorous release valve" proves.

The reviewer is attributing intention. That is not a reviewer's job.

Regardless of whether the line reading works (and I find it hard to believe any reading of the lines in question could work since it's so poorly written), the reviewer shouldn't get into "should"s.

 

[Fjordson]

Will they give TD a third season if this never picks up steam critically? I know HBO cares a lot about prestige and awards and stuff and TD must be fairly expensive to make.

I'm really surprised to be honest. I thought maybe it could disappoint compared to S1, but some of these reviews are brutal. I'll hold judgment until the season is over obviously, but damn.

 

[Cornballer]

- The Verge: Everyone gets touched by darkness in True Detective's overpopulated second season

The loss of Fukunaga and his stylistic tempering of the material is also a hard blow to the forward momentum of the show. Justin Lin, of the Fast and Furious franchise, helms the first two episodes of the second season, but clearly has a harder time selling Pizzolatto's heavy-handed dialogue. On paper, Lin and California cops are a perfect match, but the director seems less trusting of TD's weirder proclivities, and that wariness rolls over to the cast, who never seem to quite believe what they're saying.

- Vanity Fair: True Detective Season 2 Is Overwrought, but Addictive

Of course, having only seen three episodes, my opinions on all of this could soon change entirely. But, based on what I know now, True Detective Season 2 is a compelling mystery series that can’t quite find the thematic oompf of its predecessor, and stumbles often in its trying. But at least that stumbling is interesting. Even if it is a bunch of brooding male hokum, it’s at least an attempt at something big and meaningful, done with idiosyncratic flair and an admirable seriousness of purpose. The show may have gotten shallower since moving to Los Angeles, but it hasn’t gone totally Hollywood just yet.

- NPR: Why Isn't The Second Season Of 'True Detective' More Surprising?

Last season, some felt True Detective's compelling visuals, big stars and high-quality acting disguised a substandard plot. It wasn't true then. But this time around, I wonder if that criticism might be a little more on target.

 

[Squalor]

Will they give TD a third season if this never picks up steam critically? I know HBO cares a lot about prestige and awards and stuff and TD must be fairly expensive to make.

If that were completely true, True Blood wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

Anyway, Pizzolatto signed a two-year (season?) contract extension after the first season.

 

[Fjordson]

If that were completely true, True Blood wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

Anyway, Pizzolatto signed a two-year (season?) contract extension after the first season.

But didn't True Blood do huge ratings? Either way, that's good to know they'll have a third season.

 

[Squalor]

But didn't True Blood do huge ratings? Either way, that's good to know they'll have a third season.

Yeah, at its height, it pulled about five million an episode, but you didn't mention ratings, haha.

You mentioned critical acclaim and "prestige."

 

[Fjordson]

Well I just meant that there had to be one or the other. But with all the hype of S1 and the cast maybe S2 will do big numbers.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Shiiiiit well my expectations are super low now, but that could turn out to be a good thing. Did that song ever happen to leak that played during the original trailer? I loved what little I heard of it.

 

[Cornballer]

Shiiiiit well my expectations are super low now, but that could turn out to be a good thing. Did that song ever happen to leak that played during the original trailer? I loved what little I heard of it.

Lera Lynn - The Only Thing Worth Fighting For (youtube)

 

[Squalor]

Shiiiiit well my expectations are super low now, but that could turn out to be a good thing. Did that song ever happen to leak that played during the original trailer? I loved what little I heard of it.

https://youtu.be/mjg43nzSYck

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Nice!! Thanks guys!

 

[LProtag]

I just watched the first season over the past two days, which I really enjoyed.

I guess this season just doesn't have the same magic. At least I've only been waiting for it for a day, haha.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Well, maybe it ties together in the next five episodes.

Rachel McAdams' character/performance is getting quite a bit of acclaim, so maybe if you took Ferrel and Kitsch out and had it be a game of cat and mouse between a dangerous mob boss and a damaged cop, it might have a tighter focus.

But who knows what PIzzaman is getting at.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Oh Jezebel. Always on the lookout.

http://jezebel.com/gq-takes-true-detectives-female-cast-members-very-serio-1712558594

GQ Takes True Detective's Female Cast Members Very Seriously

GQ interviewed two actresses from HBO’s highly anticipated season two of True Detective. Despite the fact that the two actresses don’t share screentime, the magazine featured the above photo to accompany the piece. Niiiiiiiice.

During their chat, Adria Arjona and Leven Rambin weren’t able to say much about the show’s plot, which has been kept tightly under wraps. But instead of asking the women what they did before these roles or maybe a bit about their thespian training, the piece centered around a game of fuck/marry/kill.

Cool.

GQ’s coverage of the two women is especially irksome because the show’s spent a lot of media currency upping the serious woman quotient for this season.

 

[Haly]

Hard women indeed.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Hard women indeed.

God bless GQ.

Wait, I mean "Bad GQ! Bad!"

 

[Haly]

I have a strange desire to buy a white PSP after seeing this picture.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

http://www.gq.com/women/201507/true-detective-season-two-sexy-stars#slide=1

. . .

Spoiler

There's only one True Detective spoiler you're going to get here: The two women photographed on these pages never appear in a scene together. This photo shoot was in fact the first time Adria Arjona and Leven Rambin met. Despite that, they're in lockstep with their cultish protectiveness over the show and its shadowy processes. Shooting for the second season involved the kind of security measures usually reserved for Special Ops and Beyoncé albums. Actors learned lines through a password-protected app. Pages had to be turned in at the end of each day of shooting. The only trailer for a while contained no spoken dialogue. At the mention of a rumored orgy scene, they sweetly asked, "What orgy scene?" When we asked Arjona if she could share anything about her character besides that she's Taylor Kitsch's girlfriend, she went quiet. "I'm so scared," she said—and seemed legitimately so.

"I always refuse to do everything," she said earlier. "I would tell my agents, 'I won't do this—unless it's True Detective.' 'I won't do that—unless it's True Detective.' When I finally got it, they said, 'Well, you have to do whatever they tell you.' " So, nudity? There's another sorta-spoiler.

Since the first rule of True Detective is don't talk about True Detective, we played Fuck Marry Kill instead. They begged off breaking down the current cast but were willing to go a round with last season's. Rambin: "You know who I'd fuck? Daddario." (Alexandra Daddario played Woody Harrelson's mistress. Also, boobs.) Arjona: "Yesss. Yes, me, too." Marry? Arjona: "I think I'd marry McConaughey." Rambin: "Settle down in Austin. Good life." And kill? Arjona: "Ummm..." Rambin: "The bad guy!" Arjona: "The bad guy. Thank you for saving me. The bad guy."

That's hot.

 

[Cornballer]

Let's cut out the "gee, the new actresses sure look good" discussion. These tend to derail and get embarrassing in a hurry. Thanks.