True Next-Gen Games?

TintoConCasera said:
How so? To me it seemed just like every previous Bethesda game, but with more areas to explore aka planets.

For me next-gen shouldn't mean "the same but bigger" or "the same but prettier", it should mean "new and different".
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What exactly do you classify as new and different ?

FPS games have been virtually the same since the 90s - go into a corridor , shoot a bunch of bad guys or monsters, next room, rinse and repeat. DOOM from the 90s is basically same as DOOM Eternal in terms of core gameplay mechanics. Yeah sure, there is the glory system and better traversal and cooler guns. Biggest change are the visuals but it's still same thing. Wolfenstein The New Colossus is same as Wolfenstein 3D, walk into a room and kill Nazis lol. It's the visuals that have the biggest change, at least for FPS games.

How is a platformer different today from older days? Mario Oddysey is a spiritual successor to Mario 64 but you are still jumping and traversing environment in pretty much similar ways.

What do you want? Holographic worlds to teleport to reality? That's called augmented reality. Closest thing to next gen for FPS games is most likely Half Life Alyx. But VR is still in its infancy stage and hardware still too weak, too expensive and too cumbersome.

First we had 8 and 16 bit games. Then the big revolutionary step was 3D space with games like Mario 64. Now what?

I don't understand what they mean when they say New and Different? There is no need to reinvent the wheel and game development is extremely expensive nowadays and also very difficult.

If people are so sick and tired of the games we've been getting then by all means, go save up a 100s millions of dollar, open up your own development studio, hire people and have fun making your "New and Different" next gen game.
 
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This again, eh?

Sleepy Sailor Moon GIF
 
Elder Legend said:
What exactly do you classify as new and different ?
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To me it would be better A.I. I feel like no game focuses on that.

Or different design to already concrete designs.

Elder Legend said:
FPS games have been virtually the same since the 90s - go into a corridor , shoot a bunch of bad guys or monsters, next room, rinse and repeat. DOOM from the 90s is basically same as DOOM Eternal in terms of core gameplay mechanics. Yeah sure, there is the glory system and better traversal and cooler guns. Biggest change are the visuals but it's still same thing. Wolfenstein The New Colossus is same as Wolfenstein 3D, walk into a room and kill Nazis lol. It's the visuals that have the biggest change, at least for FPS games.
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And that's fine. Not every series need to be redefined. Doom is still fun, whether it's the old ones or new.

Portal is a recent FPS example that was different and unique. The Talos Principle would be another.

Elder Legend said:
How is a platformer different today from older days? Mario Oddysey is a spiritual successor to Mario 64 but you are still jumping and traversing environment in pretty much similar ways.
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Cuphead is quite unique with it's presentation. So is Outland with it's gameplay loop.

Elder Legend said:
What do you want? Holographic worlds to teleport to reality? That's called augmented reality. Closest thing to next gen for FPS games is most likely Half Life Alyx. But VR is still in its infancy stage and hardware still too weak, too expensive and too cumbersome.
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Not really, but there is a lot to expand.

Elder Legend said:
First we had 8 and 16 bit games. Then the big revolutionary step was 3D space with games like Mario 64. Now what?
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Better A.I, better world interaction, better sound design, more impressiveness, etc...

Elder Legend said:
I don't understand what they mean when they say New and Different? There is no need to reinvent the wheel and game development is extremely expensive nowadays and also very difficult.
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It's already being reinvented.

Elder Legend said:
If people are so sick and tired of the games we've been getting then by all means, go save up a 100s millions of dollar, open up your own development studio, hire people and have fun making your "New and Different" next gen game.
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Great response.
 
AutumnLeaves said:
To me it would be better A.I. I feel like no game focuses on that.
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The only developer that really focuses on AI for the last decade or so is Monolith. Games like F.E.A.R, Condemened, Shadow of Mordor and the sequel all had interesting and good AI.

I still have yet to play a game that has better or as brutal AI as F.E.A.R did.

They are working on a Wonder Woman game now, so that will be rather interesting.

I feel that GTA6 might be the next step for AI, but we have to wait and see the final product. AI is one the hardest things to develop for.

As far as AI goes here is what I'd like too see as a prime example.

Let's say you are playing a 3rd person RPG dungeon crawler and you walk into a room with 4 enemies.

One of them is the leader of the group and just for the sake of simplicity let's say it's a mob of goblins.

The big goblin is the tallest and biggest and carries another goblin on his back. The goblin on his back is a demolitionist.. he throws out dynamite while the big dude just tries to kill you.

Then there are 2 other goblins that are just basic grunts. Now let's say the demolitonist goblin threw a dynamite and you rolled out of it/dodged it but it hasn't exploded yet. I'd like too see one of the other 2 goblins pick that dynamite up and throw it again at you to try to hit you.

Now let's also say, these goblins have throwable knifes or axes, but they are not infinite. Let's say you dodge one of the throws from Goblin A but then Goblin B runs up to the thrown weapon, picks it up and then tries to latch on too you and slash you with it and cause bleed damage.

Basically I'd like to see something where the AI is able to play off each other's mistakes and also successes. The issue is then you run into the difficulty of the game and how something like this would be balanced.

I think having AI that is much more dynamic within their surroundings would be very interesting to experience.

Healer enemies would also be really interesting. I'd like too see enemies run back to their healers to get healed before you finish them off or something like that would be nice.
 
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alucard0712_rus said:
Horizon Forbidden West have ray-traced GI or something like Nanite?
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Hellblade 2 I believe utilizes Nanite since it's using Unreal Engine 5 and Nanite is a core selling point of UE5. Horizon Forbidden West is running off almost a decade old hardware as a baseline lowest common denominator so no, it doesn't have and won't be able to use nanite. Plus it's a custom made engine.

As for Ray Tracing I am not sure how that's worked in, but forget about Nanite. No Ray Tracing on PS4 version that's for sure, it does exist on PS5 version though.
 
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Elder Legend said:
What exactly do you classify as new and different ?

FPS games have been virtually the same since the 90s - go into a corridor , shoot a bunch of bad guys or monsters, next room, rinse and repeat. DOOM from the 90s is basically same as DOOM Eternal in terms of core gameplay mechanics. Yeah sure, there is the glory system and better traversal and cooler guns. Biggest change are the visuals but it's still same thing. Wolfenstein The New Colossus is same as Wolfenstein 3D, walk into a room and kill Nazis lol. It's the visuals that have the biggest change, at least for FPS games.
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How about less graphics and more investment on IA. That would take adventage of the newer hardware while also making the gameplay actually different instead of just prettier.
Check out FEAR, that game might be the peak of the FPS "evolution" (when it comes to IA) and it's a game from 2005.

Elder Legend said:
What do you want?
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More creativity from AAA studios would be nice, specially related to taking adventage of the newest hardware.

Elder Legend said:
I don't understand what they mean when they say New and Different? There is no need to reinvent the wheel and game development is extremely expensive nowadays and also very difficult.
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Why not? I bet those multimillionaire companies could do so. Meanwhile we are stuck with indies when it comes to offering something new and creative.

Elder Legend said:
If people are so sick and tired of the games we've been getting then by all means, go save up a 100s millions of dollar, open up your own development studio, hire people and have fun making your "New and Different" next gen game.
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No need to seethe bro, chill.

Let me ask, what does next-gen mean to you? Just better graphics? Previous gens brought us 3D games, open worlds and online play (on consoles). Meanwhile this current-gen seems to me like a 1.5 version of the previous one.
 
TintoConCasera said:
How about less graphics and more investment on IA. That would take adventage of the newer hardware while also making the gameplay actually different instead of just prettier.
Check out FEAR, that game might be the peak of the FPS "evolution" (when it comes to IA) and it's a game from 2005.


More creativity from AAA studios would be nice, specially related to taking adventage of the newest hardware.


Why not? I bet those multimillionaire companies could do so. Meanwhile we are stuck with indies when it comes to offering something new and creative.


No need to seethe bro, chill.

Let me ask, what does next-gen mean to you? Just better graphics? Previous gens brought us 3D games, open worlds and online play (on consoles). Meanwhile this current-gen seems to me like a 1.5 version of the previous one.
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Current gen has barely started. We still haven't gotten anything worthy of significance that utilizes current gen hardware.

Wait till Gears 6, Naughty Dog IP, Sony Santa Monica new IP, Wolverine, and all of these games. I don't get why are people expecting everything to be ready so fast after the world has been hit by a pandemic lol.

And if you read my other responses I know what FEAR is, I already used it as an example.

And no one is seething or is angry. I simply said that because people be acting like it's so easy to be creative and come up with super innovative gameplay when it really isn't lol.

The only reasons why indies have any creativity is because they are a lot safer to make and not as expensive and you don't have EA or other giant publisher breathing down your neck.

What does next-gen mean to me? To be completely frank, I have no clue what next-gen is too me. For me to say something is next gen to me I have to experience it first and feel it for myself and see if I can say it is so.

Another way to approach this question is Next Gen for what? An FPS or 3rd person action RPG/Action?

Obviously the first thing that people see are the visuals. Don't care how anyone spins it, but visuals do define what is next gen or not because the first thing you see are the graphics.

For an FPS/Horror immersion is #1 key factor. So visuals play a massive role whether it's an FPS or horror game is next gen or not.

Half Life Alyx is probably the most next gen FPS out in the market right now, VR and visuals is the next revolutionary step for FPS and Horror games. Resident Evil 7 VR was so good that even Resident Evil 8 is getting VR too.

Now imagine a next gen Resident Evil game that utilizes latest hardware and VR tech, this is the next big step for that franchise and honestly any big popular horror game that is in first person perspective.

For an RPG game like Elder Scrolls or The Outer Worlds 2 give me amazing visuals and AI unlike ever before. RPG games really need that next level AI more than anything, graphics can come 2nd.

GTA 6 will be very interesting, because it's the perfect game to demonstrate next gen AI with a full live world and NPC interactions. I want too see what Rockstar can do.

If you're asking me what is my dream game then that's a different question. There are far too many genres out there that I like.

To be quite honest, I don't think anyone would ever be able to create my dream game, simply because I'd like to craft my own universe with my own mechanics and lore but that is a pipe dream. I do not have the money, the time or power to do such a thing.
 
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Elder Legend said:
Current gen has barely started. We still haven't gotten anything worthy of significance that utilizes current gen hardware.

Wait till Gears 6, Naughty Dog IP, Sony Santa Monica new IP, Wolverine, and all of these games. I don't get why are people expecting everything to be ready so fast after the world has been hit by a pandemic lol.
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Yeah things are getting waaay to slow when it comes to game development, for sure. Kinda makes me wish AAA devs would scale down things a notch or two but then we'd never get that "true next-gen feel", probably.

Elder Legend said:
And if you read my other responses I know what FEAR is, I already used it as an example.

And no one is seething or is angry. I simply said that because people be acting like it's so easy to be creative and come up with super innovative gameplay when it really isn't lol.


The only reasons why indies have any creativity is because they are a lot safer to make and not as expensive and you don't have EA or other giant publisher breathing down your neck.
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Nobody says it's easy (well not me at least lol) but you would expect those AAA companies to be able to do so. But I agree, they'll probably never do since AAA gaming is expensive as fuck, and nobody's taking risks with multi million projects.

Elder Legend said:
What does next-gen mean to me? To be completely frank, I have no clue what next-gen is too me. For me to say something is next gen to me I have to experience it first and feel it for myself and see if I can say it is so.

Another way to approach this question is Next Gen for what? An FPS or 3rd person action RPG/Action?

Obviously the first thing that people see are the visuals. Don't care how anyone spins it, but visuals do define what is next gen or not because the first thing you see are the graphics.

For an FPS/Horror immersion is #1 key factor. So visuals play a massive role whether it's an FPS or horror game is next gen or not.

Half Life Alyx is probably the most next gen FPS out in the market right now, VR and visuals is the next revolutionary step for FPS and Horror games. Resident Evil 7 VR was so good that even Resident Evil 8 is getting VR too.

Now imagine a next gen Resident Evil game that utilizes latest hardware and VR tech, this is the next big step for that franchise and honestly any big popular horror game that is in first person perspective.

For an RPG game like Elder Scrolls or The Outer Worlds 2 give me amazing visuals and AI unlike ever before. RPG games really need that next level AI more than anything, graphics can come 2nd.

GTA 6 will be very interesting, because it's the perfect game to demonstrate next gen AI with a full live world and NPC interactions. I want too see what Rockstar can do.
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Agree mate. Sad thing is that maybe it's hard to make AI a selling point compared to graphics, specially to the average gamer, which might not even care about it. So I can't see modern companies taking the risk unless someone actualy steps up and shows everyone what cool AI can do.

In that regard, GTA 6 could be the one for sure. I'm just worried about modern R* being able to achieve it but I'd be glad of being proven wrong.

Elder Legend said:
If you're asking me what is my dream game then that's a different question. There are far too many genres out there that I like.

To be quite honest, I don't think anyone would ever be able to create my dream game, simply because I'd like to craft my own universe with my own mechanics and lore but that is a pipe dream. I do not have the money, the time or power to do such a thing.
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Haha, I get you. Sometimes I wish I had all the money in the world to make my dream games come true. Sadly that's not the case and I'm stuck with messing around in Game Maker. :goog_relieved:
 
ShadowLag said:
Graphics alone no longer denote next-gen to me.

Half-Life Alyx was a true Super Mario 64 moment:

Virtual Reality Vr GIF
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The only moneyhat Sony needs for PSVR2 and pretty much the template they should follow for a AAA VR game.

Sadly I don't think Sony sees the opportunity here, otherwise it would've been announced already (unless they saving it for the Showcase that never happens).
 
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nominedomine said:
The only moneyhat Sony needs for PSVR2 and pretty much the template they should follow for a AAA VR game.
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Man I wish it happened. Having Alyx on consoles would show the average joe how truly awesome an actual AAA VR game can be.

Also, game is amazing and everyone should be able to play it.

Like really, in most FPS you see a door closed with wood planks and you think "yeah I guess I have to shoot those down to go through the door". Mind blown when I realized I could just get close, pull those planks out with my own hands and call it a day.
I know, it's a little thing, but those kind of details when it comes to interactivity really add a lot immersion while also letting you think "out of the box".
 
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TintoConCasera said:
Man I wish it happened. Having Alyx on consoles would show the average joe how truly awesome an actual AAA VR game can be.

Also, game is amazing and everyone should be able to play it.

Like really, in most FPS you see a door closed with wood planks and you think "yeah I guess I have to shoot those down to go through the door". Mind blown when I realized I could just get close, pull those planks out with my own hands and call it a day.
I know, it's a little thing, but those kind of details when it comes to interactivity really add a lot immersion while also letting you think "out of the box".
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On the surface seems like something that would be pretty easy for Sony/Valve to make happen, specially now that they publish their games on Steam.
 
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What constitutes a "true" next gen game?

If Horizon Forbidden West and GOW Ragnarok had instead released exclusively on PS5 would we consider them true "Next Gen" games?
 
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Gambit2483 said:
What constitutes a "true" next gen game?

If Horizon Forbidden West and GOW Ragnarok had instead released exclusively on PS5 would we consider them true "Next Gen" games?
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Yes, because they would be taking full advantage of the system and not be tied to the lowest common denomator which is the PS4 hardware that is stuck in the past with a crappy Jagury x86 CPU and 1.84 teraflop of a GPU.

The game is being built from the ground up to run on almost a decade old hardware. It is far from a next gen game.

The PS5 is a supplement or in this case a steroid to make up for the lackluster specs of the ps4 and make it a bit better.
 
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sankt-Antonio said:
If a games gfx settings can me turned down to allow it to be played on a last gen console, I don't count it as a next gen title. I want AI and physics that are planted in game design that jaguar CPUs just can't handle.
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The only game that fits that definition is Ratchet. It really is the only true next gen game we've gotten.
 
Elder Legend said:
Yes, because they would be taking full advantage of the system and not be tied to the lowest common denomator which is the PS4 hardware that is stuck in the past with a crappy Jagury x86 CPU and 1.84 teraflop of a GPU.

The game is being built from the ground up to run on almost a decade old hardware. It is far from a next gen game.

The PS5 is a supplement or in this case a steroid to make up for the lackluster specs of the ps4 and make it a bit better.
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Based on everything you wrote shouldn't you have answered "no"? He was implying that if Horizon and GoW Ragnarok were the same as they are now, but released only as ps5 games, that people would accept them as being "next gen". Which seems like some cross-gen sympathizer logic to me.
 
Feel Like I'm On 42 said:
Based on everything you wrote shouldn't you have answered "no"? He was implying that if Horizon and GoW Ragnarok were the same as they are now, but released only as ps5 games, that people would accept them as being "next gen". Which seems like some cross-gen sympathizer logic to me.
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They physically would never release these game only on PS5 for 1 specific reason. These games were already in development after the original games came out on previous platform. So that would never happen.

And no I am not a cross-gen sympathizer I am simply stating logical facts. These are not opinions, it's what's actually happening and I've explained it as clearly as possible.

A next gen game is when it only utilizes the new hardware. If these games were only coming to PS5 then that would imply they're also being built from the ground up for the new hardware but in the case of Ragnarok and Forbidden West that is not what's happening.

No one would also be only releasing the games on the PS5 just to say it's exclusive and next gen without utilizing the hardware in the first place, that would make no sense and it would be lying to your customers and false advertisement.
 
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Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy Rebirth
Returnal
Final Fantasy XVI
Forspoken
Astro's Playroom
Spider-Man 2
Wolverine
Rise of the Ronin
Deathloop
 
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Elder Legend said:
They physically would never release these game only on PS5 for 1 specific reason. These games were already in development after the original games came out on previous platform. So that would never happen.

And no I am not a cross-gen sympathizer I am simply stating logical facts. These are not opinions, it's what's actually happening and I've explained it as clearly as possible.

A next gen game is when it only utilizes the new hardware. If these games were only coming to PS5 then that would imply they're also being built from the ground up for the new hardware but in the case of Ragnarok and Forbidden West that is not what's happening.

No one would also be only releasing the games on the PS5 just to say it's exclusive and next gen without utilizing the hardware in the first place, that would make no sense and it would be lying to your customers and false advertisement.
Click to expand...
Elder Legend said:
They physically would never release these game only on PS5 for 1 specific reason. These games were already in development after the original games came out on previous platform. So that would never happen.

And no I am not a cross-gen sympathizer I am simply stating logical facts. These are not opinions, it's what's actually happening and I've explained it as clearly as possible.

A next gen game is when it only utilizes the new hardware. If these games were only coming to PS5 then that would imply they're also being built from the ground up for the new hardware but in the case of Ragnarok and Forbidden West that is not what's happening.

No one would also be only releasing the games on the PS5 just to say it's exclusive and next gen without utilizing the hardware in the first place, that would make no sense and it would be lying to your customers and false advertisement.
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I was actually calling Gambit2348 guy a cross gen sympathizer, not you, because he was implying if they were released as is but only on ps5 that people would think they're "next gen". I agree with you they wouldn't be considered next gen ...which is why I'm confused your answer was "yes" instead of "no"
 
Feel Like I'm On 42 said:
I was actually calling Gambit2348 guy a cross gen sympathizer, not you, because he was implying if they were released as is but only on ps5 that people would think they're "next gen". I agree with you they wouldn't be considered next gen ...which is why I'm confused your answer was "yes" instead of "no"
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Oh I see. Sorry I wasn't sure exactly who you were directing that too lol. It's a bit hard to tell someone with text/forums speech.
 
The first and still the most next-gen game we've got:




Particle extravaganza showcasing
Best sound in a game
Most immersive haptics feedback created
 
Elder Legend said:
You are forgetting many others lol including State of Decay 3, Fable, Everwild, The Outer Worlds 2, Awoved, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Kingdom Hearts 4, and many others
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We haven't seen anything running in real time yet from most games you mentioned
just CG trailers
 
But what about games that could really really only be done on next gen? Many games of that lists could be still done on PS4.

When will those come?

Maybe in PS6
 
There are only x2 games I consider "next gen" - Returnal & Rift Apart

We wont see next gen games for a couple more years as native PS4 support will be needed into 2023 Maybe 2024 unfortunately.
 
True next-gen games. Shows a bunch of trailers from unreleased games with no gameplay and/or cgi. Retarded thread.
 
hemo memo said:
As impressive as this is, the problem for me is that seeing a floating hand is an immediate immersion breaking.
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What breaks immersion in VR more for me vs a floating hand is having the player characters' arms AND hands attached to me--more opportunity for it to not be perfectly synced with my own arm and pulling me out of it.
 
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