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Trump and Kim Arrive in Singapore
- Thread starter JORMBO
- Start date
Trump bows to no man. That's why I love this man. he makes no apologies for America, he doesn't make us weak.
King of Foxes
Banned
I'm not a fan of Trump but at least this is a step in the right direction. Hopefully something good comes from this
Goes back to quietly waiting to see if Trump will let Putin fuck with the Baltics
Goes back to quietly waiting to see if Trump will let Putin fuck with the Baltics
TheLaughingStock
Member
I'm watching CNN and they're trying to call out Fox News and conservatives for hypocrisy about meeting leaders who violate human rights. Yet the narrative on CNN years ago was to talk up Obama's diplomacy with Cuba, Iran, etc. It's an interesting purity test/double standard for sure from people who claim to be non-partisan and pragmatic.
MisterFalcon
Member
A big pile of 'we commit to work to X' with no clear definitions of what will be done when and what happens if it doesn't. So nothing really, just a possible starting point.
nemiroff
Gold Member
There are basically no realistic incentives for NK to get completely rid of their nukes. But at least this meeting is a better starting point than any. We'll se how quickly NK's volatility changes the temperature again.. And I won't be surprised if China or Russia will try to stir the pot along the way as usual.
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Hahaha. Sorry. That’s never ever going to happen.
King of Foxes
Banned
If that happens I will break my promise to never go to resetera again, the meltdowns would be hilarious.
michaelius
Banned
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/full-text-of-the-trump-kim-summit-agreement.html
Looks like I was right dictarships only understand power and consider peacefull talkers like Obama as weaklings
Looks like I was right dictarships only understand power and consider peacefull talkers like Obama as weaklings
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dragonfart28
Banned
llien
Member
TransientJetlag
Banned
Hell yeah. And I love him because he puts the American people first, especially the working class. He's just so in touch with regular hard working people, and seems to have a very concrete grasp on the struggles that working class families face. He's so down to earth it almost makes me think the fact that he grew up in a 23 room house is just another fake news lie from the leftists to make him seem less relatable.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
I mean, that’s an interesting way to describe a man who has been openly stroking Vladimir Putins political penis for the last three years, on an international stage.
On another note, it's a shame that humane treatment for North Korean citizens wasn't part of the agreement though.
What power exactly, has America shown North Korea?
Threats?
Which NK totally ignored and fired more missiles, calling Trump a Dotard?
Twitter wars??
Giving NK the only thing they wanted, international acknowledgement from the worlds strongest nation? In exchange for absolutely nothing?
Trump calling Un "smart" and "honourable" and giving him the chance to be taken seriously internationally without so much as a peep about dealing with the inhumane circumstances North Koreans live in?
Just today officially towing the North Korean political line by stating that the military exercises that America have been doing in South Korea as provocative instead of the American line that they're defensive?
NK saw Trump in the whitehouse, goaded him with some missiles and trash talk, and now they've received the international acknowledgement they wanted, got the POTUS to say on the international stage that NK was right all along about Americas military exercises, and have given America nothing but lip service for Trump to use as political points.
If "strength and power" is "I'll give you what you want, if you promise to try and give me what I want, at some point in future, in some unagreed upon manner" then okay.
But I have a feeling you didn't really mean that when you used the word "power".
Kim Jong Un met China's Xi first. Then met South Koreas Moon, by which time agreements towards Nourth/South Korean peace were already done.
He's now met America and given it nothing in return for the only thing North korea wanted, with the cherry on top of nobody mentioning a whisper about North Koreas humanitarian crisis and an extra scoop of Trump now towing the North Korean narrative regarding the military exercises instead of the American one.
"Power"....
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
Alienate the most powerful countries in the world at the G7 to become allies with communist China's vassal dictator state, brehs!
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llien
Member
US president hails deal after historic talks
US President Donald Trump says his historic talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un that ended in a joint agreement were "tremendous".
The signed document includes a pledge from Mr Kim to rid the Korean peninsula of nuclear weapons.
But in an extraordinary media conference later, Mr Trump announced details not in the paper.
He said he would halt US military exercises in South Korea, something widely seen as a concession.
What did they agree?
The summit centred on nuclear disarmament and reducing tensions.
The agreement said the two countries would co-operate towards "new relations", while the US would provide "security guarantees" to North Korea.
On nuclear weapons, Mr Kim "reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula".
Observers say the document lacks substance, in particular on how denuclearisation would be achieved.
However, speaking to reporters after, Mr Trump said:
Pushing human rights in this summit is simply dishonest, in my opinion.
US President Donald Trump says his historic talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un that ended in a joint agreement were "tremendous".
The signed document includes a pledge from Mr Kim to rid the Korean peninsula of nuclear weapons.
But in an extraordinary media conference later, Mr Trump announced details not in the paper.
He said he would halt US military exercises in South Korea, something widely seen as a concession.
What did they agree?
The summit centred on nuclear disarmament and reducing tensions.
The agreement said the two countries would co-operate towards "new relations", while the US would provide "security guarantees" to North Korea.
On nuclear weapons, Mr Kim "reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula".
Observers say the document lacks substance, in particular on how denuclearisation would be achieved.
However, speaking to reporters after, Mr Trump said:
- The US would suspend "provocative" war games it holds with South Korea. Mr Trump said he wanted to see US troops withdraw from the South. A spokesperson for the US forces said they had yet to receive any new guidance
- On denuclearisation, he said that Mr Kim had agreed to it being "verified", a key US demand ahead of the meeting
- Mr Trump said Mr Kim had also agreed to destroy a "major missile engine testing site"
- But he said sanctions would remain in place for now and argued "we haven't given up anything"
Pushing human rights in this summit is simply dishonest, in my opinion.
KarneeKarnay
Member
What do you think this means? Currently we have Trump promising to remove US forces and ending SK joint exercises, in return for the hope that one day, NK might get rid of its nukes?
What's the upside on this currently? Because right now it seems like NK just scored a bigger victory than even the worst possible version of the Iran deal.
Pejo
Member
So serious question - what do Kim's people think of all of the recent happenings? For years and years and years they've been told that the US is basically the devil, poor, eating snow to survive, etc. Now they (assumingly?) see Kim shaking hands with Trump. It just has to be an absolute mindfuck.
Panda1
Banned
they have not removed troops from germany or japan or even UK!! what makes u think this is unique.
anyway!! we are on the path to peace in Korea!! WELL DONE USA for once!
Phoenix RISING
Banned
"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM DOING"
JORMBO
Darkness no more
cryptoadam
Banned
Lots of talk but if this does lead to the end of NK-US-SK conflict then all the power to Trump.
I won't be like ERA and crap all over it, but not ready to pop the champagne either. Baby steps that need to show actual results before this is concluded to be another Iran deal.
I won't be like ERA and crap all over it, but not ready to pop the champagne either. Baby steps that need to show actual results before this is concluded to be another Iran deal.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
We are in the 80’s movie timeline of random good times with cartoonish villains and feel good moments rock onIt's official! Ambassador Rodman has officially arrived at his destination:
Amazing times we're living in! Who'd ever thunk Donald Trump and Dennis Rodman were about to save the world
nemiroff
Gold Member
Why waste your energy, there's a nugget of something tangible to cling onto now, so the truth doesn't matter. You'll not be able to penetrate that mental shield with facts.
Edit: I'm mainly pointing at CNN and their tribe.
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I'm praying it happens for this very reason. I just came from there, could not believe how toxic it is.
TheShadowLord
Member
I hope that US or the UN does investigations of North Korea to make sure they have no chemical or biological weapons. Getting them to denuclearize great, but making sure they have no alternative methods is also great. As well as preventing them to launch cyber attacks.
TheShadowLord
Member
Well, he got what he wanted
rokkerkory
Member
So besides praising a human rights monster what else have we gotten out of this?
PuppetMaster
Member
I'm very happy this went very well. Fuck the people who wanted this to fail.
As someone who lives in Japan this is single biggest issue I care about. And it looks like we are finally headed in the right direction after over half a century of diplomancy failures.
As someone who lives in Japan this is single biggest issue I care about. And it looks like we are finally headed in the right direction after over half a century of diplomancy failures.
Lionel Richie
Member
This would be motherfucking glorious, people who don't want this to happen seriously lack imagination.
LordOfChaos
Member
They showed this right before the press conference, but also Trump showed it to Un on an iPad...What in the...
take_it_easy
Banned
NickFire
Member
You need to separate NK from KJU to understand what is going on. KJU now controls nukes that may be able to hit USA, but he sees two likely scenarios here if no deal is reached. Option A - risk death in war with USA. Option B - risk death when the sanctions and Chinas on again / off again enforcement thereof, finally cause the country to reach a tipping point and revolt because they have nothing left to lose, almost certainly causing his death. Faced with almost certain death if he keeps his toys is very good reason to get rid of said toys if that ensures you live out your years in a life of luxury you have been accustomed to since birth.
PuppetMaster
Member
I think its genius considering who it was targeting. Also presenting it on an ipad. After all, Kim is a millennial...
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LordOfChaos
Member
He and his father loved movies, that much is true (to the point of kidnapping a south Korean director to make this gem*), but so unsubtle, lol
I think showing it on an iPad and showing off the Beast were fine though, little reminders not to buy into their own propaganda of being the best.
llien
Member
Reading anti T. comments here, thinking how different reactions would have been, had this happened in Obama's times,
Phoenix RISING
in particular.
Seriously, what ELSE was realistic to expect, that Kim Something Something comes with a button, that he presses on in front of everyone to explode all the nuclear (and ballistic missile) facilities in NK? That he would bring a step by step plan with tight deadlines on how he will demolish that, as a the first step, without even sanctions being lifted? Huh?
Left leaning European here.
It's to early to judge indeed.
Actual steps that were taken:
1) Agreement to denuclearize (this isn't a baby step at all)
2) US to stop joint "demo" drills (not even withdraw troops)
So, US got #1, NK got #2. Sanctions are not lifted yet.
NK might be willing to do it slowly and get financial aid in return (why, fucking not).
Phoenix RISING
in particular.Seriously, what ELSE was realistic to expect, that Kim Something Something comes with a button, that he presses on in front of everyone to explode all the nuclear (and ballistic missile) facilities in NK? That he would bring a step by step plan with tight deadlines on how he will demolish that, as a the first step, without even sanctions being lifted? Huh?
Left leaning European here.
It's to early to judge indeed.
Actual steps that were taken:
1) Agreement to denuclearize (this isn't a baby step at all)
2) US to stop joint "demo" drills (not even withdraw troops)
So, US got #1, NK got #2. Sanctions are not lifted yet.
NK might be willing to do it slowly and get financial aid in return (why, fucking not).
GrizzleBoy
Banned
For me, I'm just wondering where the " Trump is strong and Kim understands, that's why there's peace" angle comes from.Reading anti T. comments here, thinking how different reactions would have been, had this happened in Obama's times,
Seriously, what ELSE was realistic to expect, that Kim Something Something comes with a button, that he presses on in front of everyone to explode all the nuclear (and ballistic missile) facilities in NK? That he would bring a step by step plan with tight deadlines on how he will demolish that, as a the first step, without even sanctions being lifted? Huh?
Left leaning European here.
It's to early to judge indeed.
Actual steps that were taken:
1) Agreement to denuclearize (this isn't a baby step at all)
2) US to stop joint "demo" drills (not even withdraw troops)
So, US got #1, NK got #2. Sanctions are not lifted yet.
NK might be willing to do it slowly and get financial aid in return (why, fucking not).
If you look at whats actually happened on a timeline though, vs what people keep calling Trump's "strength" doing all the things.
- Trump becomes pres.
- NK fires more missiles.
- America and everyone else threatens.
- NK fires more missiles.
- Trump's threatens fire and fury.
- NK calls Trump a mentally deranged Dotard.
- NK fires more missiles.
- Trump/Kim compare red button sizes.
- NK fires more missiles.
- Kim meets with Xi.
- Kim soon after meets with Moon. Peace is "declared". Both agree to common goal of denuclearising Korean peninsula. Both men step into each others territory for the first time.
- Trump arrives months later, after North and South Korea already sorted their shit with the intention to denuclearise, with China already involved and announces the same peace and denuclearization off the back of the meeting the Koreans sorted out themselves, after Kim met with Xi.
- Gets basically nothing from the meeting except a photo op, but gives NK the political standing it wanted, the US/NK meeting it wanted and a US president standing on an international podium, now agreeing with NK that the military exercises the west have been calling defensive for years and years and years are actually provocative, therefore giving NK the ability to now say that their nuclear development was defensive due to America provoking them, as agreed by the current American president.
And then you're supposed to stand back from all that and listen to all the people saying "wow Donald Trump really showed Kim Jong Un who's boss! Kim Jong Un understands the strength of Donald Trump!! Such a strong man!"
When the actual reality is NK provoked the shit out of Trump, laughed in his face after every single threat from him, then got all the political wins they could ever have asked for (bar sanction lifting, to be confirmed) as their prize.
Let's put it this way.
If America was the one firing ICBMs over other countries heads and the outcome was that after calling them deranged idiots, those same international leaders started coming over and shaking the presidents hands, doing photo ops, calling him "smart "and "honourable", inviting him to visit their countries and moving military bases away from their border while justifying the presidents ICBM testing by stating out of the blue that they were actually provoking the president.
You wouldn't be calling the people now kissing that presidents ass "strong man" who "tamed the tyrant" and "achieved peace".
On the contrary, youd be saying that whats actually happened, is the President fired lots of scary missiles and despite their initial threats of war, people came over offering peace treaties and kissing his political ass.
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TheLaughingStock
Member
Step outside the bubble.
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/trump-kim-summit-negotiating-weakness
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GrizzleBoy
Banned
I know simply posting YouTube videos and links to articles seems to have become some kind of accepted alternative to actually forming and presenting arguments, but why do you think this article debunks my point that I don't agree that "displays of Trumps strength" is what led to this moment?
llien
Member
He could have flown to NK and had tantric sex with Kim, so Kim is now in love with him.
He could have used advanced voodoo-fu and manipulated him with dark magic.
As a matter of the fact, we have no idea what is going on. Chinese pressure is likely, but it results from US pressure.
"Unemployment is low under Trump, because Obama" is understandable, but "things just happened, someone did it, but definitely not Trump" in this story is... strange to hear.
The deal offered by NK back in Obama times, by the way, was (2016):
One could reasonably argue that what has been achieved so far could, in practice, be no more than that, we'll see.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Trump's rhetoric helped force various parties to the table.
If the US wants to resolve the dispute with NK peacefully, then their negotiating position is inherently weak. That's not his fault. The US needs a deal more than NK because of the decisions of people who were in charge before he was. However, make no mistake, the US can decimate NK by the end of the day if its leaders gave the order. The US position is compromised because it is concerned with collateral damage and China.
In any event, NK is not provoking the shit out of Trump. Last I checked, he didn't preemptively rain down fire and fury. They're not laughing in his face. NK is setting aside time to negotiate behind closed doors and meet in public.
According to your narrative NK is doing this and that, but they didn't any guarantees from the US. And if NK doesn't follow through, then eventually the US will be compelled to do what many people don't want to. It's a dangerous game with someone as unpredictable as Pres. Trump.
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