bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
And yet yours is the most inconsequential post on this very page. Impressive.
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Trump risks major diplomatic dispute with China after speaking with Taiwan's prez
- Thread starter chadskin
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And yet yours is the most inconsequential post on this very page. Impressive.
Yes, I made a flippant reply to a flippant comment, that doesn't mean that I'm uneducated about the actual issues. Saying that others need to educate themselves (implying that you yourself are "more" educated on the subject, thus the opposing opinion is less valid) is a weak debating mechanism. If you disagree with a specific point, disagree with it, don't just assume that your viewpoint is the only correct one, and others need to educate themselves with it.
As for your point about Alaska, I would say of course, you have to go to war over it, but I respect your right to disagree with me, and wouldn't say that you need to educate yourself over Russian aggression (maybe a link to the annexation of the Crimea?).
This coming from somebody that thought a wall would block drugs from getting into the country...
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
You don't understand what this means, do you?
You're reinforcing the broader point I'm making yes go to war for it because such aggression so lead to larger things and are interpreted as such . Similarly china can perceive this as us not honouring prior agreements . And can escalate even if it harms both us and Chinese economies .
I'm imply not I'm more educated but that it was a flippant comment . If you agree with that then I'm fine. Beyond that I'll let more educated minds judge which is the correct course of action . Having said that in this highly specialised world there do exist varying levels of knowledge on fields and it is perfectly possible to have an disagreement when one side is the lesser informed. This is not necessarily the case here as I'm not a pol sci major. For all I know you could know more than me . But the comment was flippant . That's all .
Not unexpected. China has literally nothing to gain and a LOT to lose by going ballistic over this right now.
I'm sorry, but the Dalai Lama comparison is painfully ridiculous.
When this issue came up in 2009, Obama refused to meet with the Dalai Lama, and this was a break with precedent. Quite a few people criticized him. And then the 2016 meeting was covered with numerous disclaimers, and the proper diplomatic groundwork was set for it. In addition, this isn't a massive part of the relationship between China and the US in the first place.
In this case, we have Trump casually breaking with decades-refined policy, being blissfully unaware of one of the key formulations that has governed our relationship with China since the 1970s, and stumbling into potentially perilous territory without the slightest bit of preparation.
We do a lot of things that China doesn't like. That's not the main problem here. The problem is how it happened, considering the potential stakes.
Looks like they're de-escalating it from their end by characterizing it as a trick by Taiwan.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
I'm more worried about Trump going ballistic.
Diplomacy is chess but he wants to play hungry hungry hippos.
Thank god. Everything about this is ridiculous but everyone is more adult and informed than Trump.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
They probably fear trumps doubling down too
The White House was quick to reaffirm the US's commitment to the 'One China' policy as well but we'll see how much that's going to be worth come January 20.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
We're going to reach a point, and rather fast I fear, where deescalation on the other side of one of these fuck ups isn't going to be an option.
We literally just added a monkey to a 100+ player chessboard. We're lucky Obama was still in power and could help smooth it over (which is part of what I assume happened).
I actually can't believe I've read this line in my life about a us president .... I mean the world didn't like bush thought he was idiotic gung-ho etc some thought Washington to be too hawkish but the day the world treats a us president with child gloves .... It's funny of my friends part Dutch part philipino American army guy who voted trump went he'll make us respected again ... Duerte insulted us Obama put up with it bush would never have allowed that ....yeah you just went and voted this guy who half the world thinks is a clown .... Can so see America "international respect" rising with trump ... Lol
I HIGHLY doubt that. Standing up to China has been one of his major planks since the very beginning (hell, before he even threw his hat in the ring) and he has major business interests in the region. This move didn't even surprise me one bit, given what he's been saying on his 'victory lap.'
He was probably hoping for a more vociferous response from China, quite frankly.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
more proof that this presidency is being guided by a spec script for an unfilmed episode of curb your enthusiasm
tell me you can't see larry doing this!
tell me you can't see larry doing this!
Lord Frieza
Member
If there's one thing that I think the GOP would eventually pull the trigger on getting rid of Trump in an impeachment, it'd probably be foreign affairs stuff. Even if Pence is the main governing man in the equation, the fact that he'll have a direct contact line to foreign parties and already doing shit like this is pretty troubling.
Atraveller
Banned
Trump: what did you mean I was tricked? *reaches for phone*
I mean Pence is scary but at least we know he's not going to fuck up the entire world over a hotel.
Nothing is more adult than everyone pretending like Taiwan doesnt exist so the Chinese government can contiue to save face
This is one of the more disappointing threads I've seen here in a long time. Taiwan is a liberal democracy. It is independent in every sense of the word. If you guys actually believe in any of the ideals you pretend to here than this development is good news.
Fuck everyone in this thread quivering at the "might" of China in spite of what is right.
Fuck everyone in this thread quivering at the "might" of China in spite of what is right.
The world is not fair . Pick your battles . You like freedom and liberal democracies so much why not go to war and liberate china ?
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm genuinely shocked that we didn't just have an instant total war with China over a phone call! Shocked!
In other news, it turns out that China aren't idiots after all and they know that the US are their largest and most important trading partner. Unless Trump is truly stupid, he knows it too. It's not n-dimensional chess but this was a ploy to see what kind of reaction he could provoke out of the Chinese. And, well, there wasn't really any. Because seriously, who the fuck actually thought a World War going to start over a phone call?
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Its not just Taiwan that doesnt exist internationslly theres also Somaliland , Trans-Dniester (Transnistria), South Ossetia and Abkhazia,Nagorno-Karabak.
There's a good BBC documentary about breakaway states that also covers Taiwan, called "Places That Don't Exist" (available on yt)
Unresolvable problems that'll just self perpetuate with no real change imo.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
1) Taiwan is not under invasion.
2) Nobody wants to deal with millions of starving North Koreans.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
And then China doesn't even react
NullPointer
Member
1) Could be, it's a renegade place after all
2) We are kinda dealing with millions from middle east, so why not a few North Koreans
They will do nothing because they can do nothing.
The worry wasn't over this, it's the fact he didn't know not to make the call in the first place. It's the fact he skips his daily security briefings. It's the fact he seems to be doing everything by the seat of his pants with no thought to consequences. At some point, if he keeps this shit up, he'll do something another country can't walk back. And he'll do it at a time when Obama won't be able to smooth things over for him anymore.
Foreign Policy is a 100+ man chess game and Trump only knows how to play Hungry Hungry Hippos. If that doesn't give you pause, it should.
There's a difference between you or I saying Taiwan should be independent and the United States saying it.
How did we get from having a phone call with the president of a liberal democracy to going to war with China?
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Well yeah. Just pointing out that people overreacted
Also, who the hell knows how countries will react to new crazy FP like this. Could be bad. Could be good. We'll have to see.
I would never accept any policy of a police/fascist state.
This not a matter of accepting the policy, it's matter of looking at the reality of the situation. There aren't a lot of options beyond A: Accept the status quo or B: Start a war that will kill millions.
I 100% agree with the rational science of your post but strongly suspect he literally loses track of even shit he cares about so this one is adviser baggage. Sometimes it is hokey acting. But not this. He's fully incoherent.
Oh totally agree. John Wick quote there btw. Of all the developments post election this is the first one that didn't make me want to bang my head against the wall.
I see - so we should only take stances on issues when there is no practical effect in the world? Because that's essentially what you are arguing - great to talk about on forums, but don't actually try to make that change in the real world
Yes, Donald J. Trump, defender of liberal democracy, champion of human rights, advocate of the rule of law.
Boy do I have terrific bridges to sell you. The most beautiful bridges, believe me.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
1) But it's not right now.
2) There are 24.9 million North Koreans. NOBODY wants to deal with the refugees coming out of that place. Not China, not Japan, not even the South Koreans.
Yes, Donald J. Trump, defender of liberal democracy, champion of human rights, advocate of the rule of law.
Boy do I have terrific bridges to sell you. The most beautiful bridges, believe me.
Nice argument.
What happens when ppl ignore nuance and escalate arguments on one topic issues
Eg
Someone : trump is okay it's just a phone call
Me : phone calls matter international relations (escalated to geopolitics)
Someone : else we must support Taiwan and oppose china on liberal principles (escalated to morality)
Me : well then just fight wars to liberate things (escalated to radical libaralism and world needs policing legels)
It's a sequence of escalations . Where you draw the Line is upto you . I draw it at he should read this briefs and be mindful of what he says . Part of America may not care if he's politically correct . But the world is already noticing if he's displomatically incorrect .
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
There's nothing about Trump's career or character that would suggest he had the best intentions of Taiwan, the US, or even China in mind when he received that call..
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