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[Barzul]

Reality eh, we avoided it for long stretches, but it always catches up. Guarantee that Trump and his voters will certainly deal with it in ways they didn't expect in the next 4 years.

 

[Nerokis]

Jesus, do some people just think China is a schoolyard bully and the US does this to appease them?

The US and China are two superpowers with an incredibly complex relationship. None of us have any idea how the issue of Taiwan fits into that puzzle and how the US benefits from avoiding diplomatic relations with Taipei.

Going "yeah, stick it to China" and walking away is infantile.

Yeah, this isn't a good sign for how Trump will handle one of the most important relationships in the world going forward. Or a number of other significant issues, for that matter.

People nodding in agreement at Trump's tweet are falling for the same tactic of simplistic formulations that fooled the American electorate. It's possible to make a good argument for this being a good move, but all that tweet proves is Trump's complete ignorance.

 

[Jintor]

There will be people who "know what their talking about" who have all sorts of opinions. I guess it depends on which end of the political spectrum they fall. Just argue your own point, rather than post other people's points.

Are you saying expertise and experience counts for nothing

 

[Carpe Carnim]

There will be people who "know what their talking about" who have all sorts of opinions. I guess it depends on which end of the political spectrum they fall. Just argue your own point, rather than post other people's points.

"Anonymous forum posters who had an undergrad class in game theory and intro to international relations should think outside the box and ignore the arguments of seasoned negotiators with decades of experience with military, politics, and economics. Who needs those elitist technocrats anyways!?"

 

[bob_arctor]

There will be people who "know what their talking about" who have all sorts of opinions. I guess it depends on which end of the political spectrum they fall. Just argue your own point, rather than post other people's points.

People who know what they are talking about are typically very useful to use as sources when arguing a point. I'm assuming that the current U.S. policy towards Taiwan has already included agreement from both sides of the political spectrum as it has stood for some time.

 

[faisal233]

Trump recognized the unrecognized leader of China and everyone with foreign policy experience is freaking out about this.

You shouldn't celebrate the ignorance of delicate foreign policy just because you share the same lack of knowledge as Trump.

But trump gets to build in Taiwan now!!!

 

[TAJ]

Are you saying expertise and experience counts for nothing

It's been a theme lately. MGS2 coming true.

 

[Atraveller]

But it wasn't common knowledge. Now it will be. China is a more powerful ally to have than Taiwan. Why don't people get this. This is not a time to be ideological. Did people learn nothing from the Cold War?

If this was a strategic move you'd hear less complaints, but he isn't even president yet and is tweeting about it.

China, ally? After the past few years of tension heightening with the actual allies in the Pacific?

 

[Timeaisis]

It's a phone call. Taiwan is a nation. China needs to get over it.

 

[theignoramus]

I hope everyone realizes that this is not a joke. This is deathly serious.

Trump is in waters here that are extraordinarily dangerous.

Bullshit. Were not at the brink of a war over a phone call. The most the Chinese will do is throw a public tantrum and possibly do something petty in return, like have a public meeting with Assad or some other western pariah.

 

[andythinkpad]

It's a phone call. Taiwan is a nation. China needs to get over it.

China will punish Taiwan's economy for being naughty girl who gossip with Trump behind China's back.

 

[BKK]

Are you saying expertise and experience counts for nothing

Of course not, just that there will be a varied view amongst experts depending on their political viewpoint. If we all just quote experts who we agree with, then we dissociate ourselves from the actual debate. How can we refute positions of people who can't reply? It doesn't make for a legitimate debate, just argue your own position, rather than argue that someone else agrees with you.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I mean, to make a blunt analogy, this is like we've gone from Picard to Chris Pine's young Kirk in terms of diplomatic nuance.

Of course that's going to feel good to people who care more about what feels good than about what's actually realistic.

 

[NervousXtian]

I'm sure his company wanting to build a resort in Taiwan has nothing to do with it

Honestly, doubtful. He could and probably would have done that anyhow. This neither helps nor hurts that business venture.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

That said I wonder how conservatives will act. This was a policy enacted by Reagan. I wonder what their response will be to this.

oh that's easy. They will say there's a plan and it's actually really smart, not as stupid as we can all see it is. This already happened with George Bush Jr. where people were essentially lining up to excuse his stupidity and general incompetence.
Just because you like someone or you think he's not the worst person ever, doesn't mean they are qualified in any way. It's kind of a tragedy of the commons really. They want someone they can relate to, but anyone who is relatable in that way could not be a worse pick for the (unrelatable) job. The only person who could relate to the job is someone who's already done it once before.

 

[chadskin]

I guess nothing unites a divided nation better than a common foreign enemy, judging by those 'I don't like Trump but this is cool because fuck China' posts.

 

[bob_arctor]

It's a phone call. Taiwan is a nation. China needs to get over it.

Reads like a Trump tweet. We are so fucked.

 

[Atraveller]

China will punish Taiwan's economy for being naughty girl who gossip with Trump behind China's back.

LOL, do you even know how close in trade China and Taiwan are?

 

[Opto]

Honestly, doubtful. He could and probably would have done that anyhow. This neither helps nor hurts that business venture.

So his actions as president have no conflict with his business interests.

Phew. I was worried guys, but it looks like we have nothing to worry about.

 

[Barzul]

China, ally? After the past few years of tension heightening with the actual allies in the Pacific?

Yes China is still technically an ally. We have massive co-dependence on the global stage. Countries like Russia, Iran etc are what I would not consider allies.

 

[Hexa]

I guess nothing unites a divided nation better than a common foreign enemy, judging by those 'I don't like Trump but this is cool because fuck China' posts.

It really does. I wonder if another Cold War would be good for the US right now.

 

[andythinkpad]

LOL, do you even know how close in trade China and Taiwan are?

Sure, and China holds all the cards.

 

[George Washington]

Yes China is still technically an ally. We have massive co-dependence on the global stage. Countries like Russia, Iran etc are what I would not consider allies.

China is not an ally.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

Trump is the best, man. My Taiwan family is loving this

 

[Timeaisis]

I mean, to make a blunt analogy, this is like we've gone from Picard to Chris Pine's young Kirk in terms of diplomatic nuance.

Of course that's going to feel good to people who care more about what feels good than about what's actually realistic.

Who cares about what feels good. This is a about Taiwan and the US. If you are really arguing that we should pretend a country doesn't exist because China will get mad then we're more further gone as fearful nation than I thought. It's a damn phone call with a country that exists and that we trade with.

 

[Ac30]

Reads like a Trump tweet. We are so fucked.

First political discourse, and now international relations. He tells it like it is! I like it, the bull in a china shop approach. Appropriate.

 

[Barzul]

China is not an ally.

You can tell yourself that.

 

[Qvoth]

Would you look at that (from two weeks ago)...

kek

 

[Timeaisis]

Reads like a Trump tweet. We are so fucked.

Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?

 

[Barzul]

Who cares about what feels good. This is a about Taiwan and the US. If you are really arguing that we should pretend a country doesn't exist because China will get mad then we're more further gone as fearful nation than I thought. It's a damn phone call with a country that exists and that we trade with.

Taiwan insists they are the real "China". Mainland included.

 

[George Washington]

You can tell yourself that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally

 

[bob_arctor]

Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?

Hey man, I just hope he tells China to get over it. That'll be great.

 

[tuxfool]

Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?

The problem is that this action is all it is. It is an off the cuff policy swing with no regard or contemplation of its effects.

 

[Timeaisis]

Taiwan insists they are the real "China". Mainland included.

And China insists that they are real China, Taiwan included. What's your point?

 

[KillGore]

I mean, I hate Trump as much as the next guy but I don't think he did anything wrong here. I feel like GAF has their pitchforks ready for any news related to Trump lol

 

[jroc74]

^Foreign relations are not to be taken lightly. As President I hope he understands this.

Chances are, Trump didn't even know any of this.

I for one am shocked that someone with zero qualifications would make these kinds of mistakes.

.

And he's not even in office yet....

Wonder if this was part of the briefs he waved away.

 

[Qvoth]

make no mistake, china will retaliate
for example recently china withheld some singapore APCs in hongkong that are used for singapore and taiwan joint exercise or something like that because singapore's been saying negative things about china's south china sea expansion

 

[Atraveller]

Yes China is still technically an ally. We have massive co-dependence on the global stage. Countries like Russia, Iran etc are what I would not consider allies.

Ally that the US test air defense-zone with bombers? I'm afraid I don't quite understand.

Sure, and China holds all the cards.

*roll eyes*

 

[Barzul]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally

I never said anything about a military relationship. More in an economic sense, our two economies are intertwined. That's because for both parties it's beneficial and I assumed we wanted to see that continue.

 

[Extra Sauce]

I hope everyone realizes that this is not a joke. This is deathly serious.

Trump is in waters here that are extraordinarily dangerous.

Comedy is tragedy plus Trump.

 

[Forkball]

The US has a very unique relationship with Taiwan. Although we don't officially recognize them, we still trade with them as if they were an independent nation (many American businesses are present in Taiwan and vice versa), sell them weapons, and have a defense treaty. The US has an embassy in Taiwan that serves every function of an embassy but is NOT called as such.

Given this information, you may think a phone call between the two nations isn't a big deal. It shouldn't be, but it is. The US president has not had any formal meeting with the Taiwanese president since 1979. I'm no expert of international arms deals, but I'm sure the US and Taiwanese government had a conversation between the two in order to make it happen. Just not so public. So nearly forty years of US foreign policy was just haphazardly thrown out the window with zero lead up at all. That's uh, not good. Fairly indicative of future foreign policy faux paus under the Trump administration. Diplomacy is a very complex art that is filled with imbalances and nonsense, but you need to know how to handle it effectively to keep people safe.

And my lord, why has no one STILL taken away Trump's twitter account? What purpose it is serving to his cabinet?

 

[Bubba_Sparks]

I don't think some people here grasp how serious of an issue this really is, especially if it points towards a shift in the incoming administration's treatment of Taiwan. The number one priority of the Chinese military is containing and eliminating the Taiwanese government in case of an official declaration of independence. This isn't a joke, the Chinese are ready and willing to fight and die for what they see as part of their country! I honestly think Trump's administration is going to have to back pedal hard on this! I can't say for certain, but everything points to it being an issue the Chinese don't take lightly.

 

[Atraveller]

Taiwan insists they are the real "China". Mainland included.

Only some people in the KMT does, Tsai's DPP is more in favor of completely scrapping the RoC title and go with Taiwan.

I never said anything about a military relationship. More in an economic sense, our two economies are intertwined. That's because for both parties it's beneficial and I assumed we wanted to see that continue.

Then China and Taiwan are allies.

 

[Balphon]

Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?

Signaling a big shift in our China policy to the world without having an actual plan is pretty bad, yeah.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?

There is no nation known as Taiwan. The government of Taipei insists that there is only one China, and that the mainland government is not legitimate. The mainland government says the same thing about the ROC government. Even if they are de facto separate countries, this is the current state of affairs.

https://www.quora.com/Which-countries-recognize-Taiwan-as-a-country

 

[Opto]

Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?

Taiwan is the seat of the opposing government of China in a civil war that has possibly not officially ended. Not sure you want to out yourself as being on the same level on Trump in terms of foreign policy

 

[Barzul]

And China insists that they are real China, Taiwan included. What's your point?

None really. Unless you disagree with what Taiwan's goals are. Is Trump recognizing the island nation of Taiwan (which they do not see themselves as) or the country of China? It's a rhetorical and complicated question.

 

[Robot Pants]

Washington outsider shaking things up just like we wanted.

 

[Qvoth]

There is no nation known as Taiwan. The government of Taipei insists that there is only one China, and that the mainland government is not legitimate. The mainland government says the same thing about the ROC government. Even if they are de facto separate countries, this is the current state of affairs.

https://www.quora.com/Which-countries-recognize-Taiwan-as-a-country

interesting, i knew that's how "officially" china thinks of taiwan, didn't know it's the same the other way around lol

 

[Rebel Leader]

Washington outsider shaking things up just like we wanted.

YO! I am not affiliated with that "we" group!