crazy monkey
Banned
I think he did good. I think he knew what was he doing.
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Trump risks major diplomatic dispute with China after speaking with Taiwan's prez
- Thread starter chadskin
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I'm gonna lay it straight:
At this point, if you think Trump ran for President for any reason other than simply wanting to be the most important man in the world, you are an idiot.
He doesn't give a shit about you. He doesn't give a shit about jobs. He doesn't give a shit about Making America Great Again. He just gets off on the idea of world leaders praising him and sucking up to him.
The honeymoon is gonna end real quick.
FF Seraphim
Member
Taiwan is a known ally to the US, we support them with military deals yearly. I highly doubt a simple phone call is going to make diplomatic matters worse between the US and China compared to the fact we invest and sell military equipment to Taiwan each year.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
If Obama, or hell, if President Romney did this knowing some of the ramifications as a deliberate gesture with plans to follow through I'd be much less worried
Trump is an idiot who relishes being uninformed. The problem is that he is going to have zero clue for how to follow this up without making everything worse.
Just because I disagree with certain Obama policies doesn't mean that I'm a supporter of all of his opponent's policies!
I think that's a large part of the problem with this kind of debate, people tend to just agree or disagree with every policy that the politician that they either support or don't support has, rather than having their own nuanced opinions which may occasionally contradict the view of the politician that they generally agree with.
So yeah, I can not be a fan of Trump, but be even less of a fan of Xi Jinping.
crazy monkey
Banned
Awesome. Respect.
He could but everybody would laugh at him. It's really stupid and hypocritical for the U.S. to sell Taiwan billions in military hardware and then pretend they don't exist.
Trump doesn't do anything unless he sees some sort of benefit for himself. So i'd look at what deals he's tried to make with Taiwan on the past as far as businesses go.
That said I wonder how conservatives will act. This was a policy enacted by Reagan. I wonder what their response will be to this.
That said I wonder how conservatives will act. This was a policy enacted by Reagan. I wonder what their response will be to this.
Atraveller
Banned
Wow. So we back out of the TPP and make a fool of ourselves at the international stage. I'm sure it will expand US influence in Asia.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
Trump does what Trump wants.
crazy monkey
Banned
how is standing up to china bad thing? He is right in what he said.
Discordian_taco
Member
I dont like Trump but I am glad he did this. Its about time diplomatic relations resume with Taiwan and Taiwan can finally be seen as an independent nation.
Tell me how he's standing up to China at all. He likely did this out of ignorance and not knowing shit.
How will he follow up on this? What will his response to China be?
"Standing up" to china mean's nothing. We just fucked all our allies in the region with TPP and China will establish dominance in the region with their trade partnership. That's how the world works. Being macho isn't going to help us build trade relationships and exert dominance.
What is Trump going to do when they have established trade and military relationships and have their Navy dominate the sea? Get in a shooting war when the rest of asia supports china?
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Chinese Taipei. I know someone already answered, but they didn't explain why. It's complicated, but as it stands Taiwan/Republic of China/Chinese Taipei isn't truly independent, not in the sense of any other independent country. You could say it's similar to Cyprus and Greece, but considerably more hostile and complicated... not to say Cyprus isn't complicated... it's one of the most complicated histories in the world and in real life is a divided country.. under both Greek and Turkish rule.. with British military bases.
I'd suggest reading up on the subject at least in summary to understand. I guarantee a mere matter of minutes of research would help you understand things aren't as simple as "We should recognize Taiwan as country".
It could be your take-away, but you might be surprised that you understand why many prefer leaving things ambiguous.
Taiwan isn't really independent. Technically the Chinese civil war isn't over, and Taiwan has never actually declared they are separate. Honestly it would be pretty ugly if they did, which is a big reason we should stay the fuck out of it in the open and play the long game.
See above.
Oh, his organization wants to a fucking resort there?
What could happen?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
This fucking clown
An island power, caught up in an ideologically significant dispute between two nuclear superpowers. Reminds me of a moment that almost ended human civilization.
This is not something to be frivolous about. Escalation between the US and China at an already tense moment in that relationship could have extremely bad long-term consequences.
The thin mutual understanding between the US and China is what has allowed for the present era of general global stability.
Caution, rationality, and seriousness are badly needed.
This is not something to be frivolous about. Escalation between the US and China at an already tense moment in that relationship could have extremely bad long-term consequences.
The thin mutual understanding between the US and China is what has allowed for the present era of general global stability.
Caution, rationality, and seriousness are badly needed.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
He knew it'd piss off China, my thought is that he believes Russia will have our back if something comes back out of China.
Haha. Complete misunderstanding of the situation on your part.
The TPP is arguably the cornerstone of the US's future influence in the region. If you're decrying that Obama wasn't able to stop Chinese aggression there, I don't know how you're able to give the guy who wants to kill that agreement altogether any benefit of the doubt.
And I think you'll find many who agree with you that Obama was a weak president in terms of foreign policy, myself included.
It's not hypocritical. The logic is that the US agreed to the 'One China' policy and believes there's not going to be an invasion (because how could China invade itself), hence it sells 'defensive' arms to Taiwan.
Was the first thing that came to my mind
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I'm sure his company wanting to build a resort in Taiwan has nothing to do with it
Carpe Carnim
Member
Only with morons and anonymous forum posters. Thanks for playing, though
Then we're agreed, it would be stupid of Trump to pull out of TPP (hopefully it's just all talk and it gets renamed with minor changes ... well, we can hope).
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Trump's right about this. The US basically gives it tons of military hardware yet is supposed to pretend not to have any relationship with it. It's kind of absurd.
Jesus, do some people just think China is a schoolyard bully and the US does this to appease them?
The US and China are two superpowers with an incredibly complex relationship. None of us have any idea how the issue of Taiwan fits into that puzzle and how the US benefits from avoiding diplomatic relations with Taipei.
Going "yeah, stick it to China" and walking away is infantile.
People are seriously underestimating China's position in the world. They think that they wouldn't risk alienating the US. I imagine it is their eventual goal to overtake the United States as the worlds biggest influencer. Whose to say Trump does not lead to them accelerating that goal. They have fingers in all the major developing economies etc. An example being China currently has more influence in the continent of Africa than America does. It's why the current strategy of mutual coexistence has worked out so far for both of us. But you can't coexist with what you cannot predict. Trump is unpredictable.
And to those bringing up Russia. They're probably licking their fingers in glee. I'm sure any failure of America is ultimately welcome in Russia. It doesn't matter how many times Trump calls Putin powerful. They unlike Trump are not easily influenced.
And to those bringing up Russia. They're probably licking their fingers in glee. I'm sure any failure of America is ultimately welcome in Russia. It doesn't matter how many times Trump calls Putin powerful. They unlike Trump are not easily influenced.
No.
People who know what they're talking about realize this is a reckless mistake.
Christopher Hill - Fmr Ambassador to Korea and A/S of East Asia Affairs
[URL="https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/804840749825028096"]Ian Bremmer - Founder Eurasia Group
[/URL]Ari Fleischer - Bush press secretary
I imagine Trump will quickly try and say he's not setting policy here, but damage will have been done.
A true blunder.
crazy monkey
Banned
If only saying "HI and Thank you " to Taiwan freaks every one out this much then he did the right thing. He also called out hypocrisy of USA. I think he did very right thing. No need to freak out over this. Infect this sends the message.
Being right, flaunting the ways we have skirted our One China policy, and directly overstepping 40 years of policy are not good diplomatic tactics.
But it wasn't common knowledge. Now it will be. China is a more powerful ally to have than Taiwan. Why don't people get this. This is not a time to be ideological. Did people learn nothing from the Cold War?
If this was a strategic move you'd hear less complaints, but he isn't even president yet and is tweeting about it.
There will be people who "know what their talking about" who have all sorts of opinions. I guess it depends on which end of the political spectrum they fall. Just argue your own point, rather than post other people's points.
radios shipping overview
Member
This doesn't sound like it was as impromptu as Trump claims.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/12/03/2003660473
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/12/03/2003660473
President Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文was to have a telephone conversation with US president-elect Donald Trump yesterday, which would be the first time a Taiwanese president has spoken with a US president-elect since official diplomatic ties between the two nations were severed in 1979.
According to sources in Washington, Tsai was to congratulate Trump on his election win and to reiterate that Taiwan would continue to maintain a steady relationship with the US, as well as to express hopes for expanded Taiwan-US collaborations on the economy, politics and regional security.
Trump reportedly agreed to the call, which was arranged by his Taiwan-friendly campaign staff after his aides briefed him on issues regarding Taiwan and the situation in the Taiwan Strait, sources said.
But what will I do with all the leftover cash?
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