Um, Erdogan completely controls the consensus within the country. That's how these things work. Major dissenting voices and whistleblowers ended up in jail. UK, German, French and US intelligence were HIGHLY suspicious of the claims of the Turkish government. And that's almost irrelevant given the behaviors and nature of arrests following "the coup."
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Turkish Referendum |OT| ...With a Thunderous Applause
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Um, Erdogan completely controls the consensus within the country. That's how these things work. Major dissenting voices and whistleblowers ended up in jail. UK, German, French and US intelligence were HIGHLY suspicious of the claims of the Turkish government. And that's almost irrelevant given the behaviors and nature of arrests following "the coup."
ClosingADoor
Member
If the region is dying from hunger, the local market is already disrupted.
Like I said, the problem is exports. If those farmers could export to the EU, US, China, etc, freely, then we would be giving them a solution. But they can't, and letting them do it would disrupt the markets there.
Hopefully the African Union can replicate the EU model and provide free movement of goods and people, so they have their own market over time that competes with the other global powers.
Funyarinpa
Member
Fair enough. Don't know how I got persuaded about that.
In a way, yes!
Africa's chronic famine can be attributed to it's regular and extensive foreign aid intake.
If i were a farmer i would have to take a loan to purchase a plow, crop seeds and the manpower to dig irrigation canals, but that's not a bad thing, because flour and vegetables are valuable in my region and once the harvest is brought in, i will be rolling in cash, pay my debt, and maybe expand the operation next season with more hired villagers to keep the vermin out, pull the weeds out quicker and make a bigger cistern for the dry seasons.
But before the corps even breach the hard sunbaked soil, these planes start darkening the sky!
The area around the village is pelted with bags of rice, nuts and flour! my crop will be worthless now! Now i would have to default, the investing party will make a point never to loan money to Africans again, and i am ruined and worst of all, my people still won't be self-sufficient and will starve after another two years.
And that's how a little luxury can go a long way in ruining a society.
all this gibberish aside, how can emergency food relief in response to a famine be the cause of said famine?
Where is all this luxury that is responsible for Africa's dire state through the creation of "weak men"?
He has a point in that foreign "help" isn't helping them with becoming self-sufficient. Though, maybe that isn't their intention in the first place.
(Also, I liked that "gibberish".)
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wow. People living in dictatorships sure realize dictatorships suck, huh.
I'm sure the people in Turkey love the EU Turks.
Don't worry, I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic.
Man, this guy just openly brags about intimidating voters on his Facebook... Disgusting.
whyamihere
Banned
I never said a super majority in the first place because and all I said was that a 50+1% was to low? And no, they should've tried again with a high threshold. Sorry! I'm consistent about this.
This is pretty much the only thing Florida got right. It should be hard to make changes like this! That's the point!
Funyarinpa
Member
Not that, it's just that seeing those changes to the curriculum again makes me want to not be Turkish at all.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Making changes hard means making positive changes hard, not just negative ones. Over human history, the direction of change has typically if not been exclusively toward protecting the vulnerable, rather than away. Because of this, establishing an entrenched constitution usually if not exclusively benefits the strong at the expense of the weak. I'm not okay with that. I'm disappointed you are.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Don't think he was "involved" but he knew it was coming and let it fail to gain more power.
Holy shit. What is it with guys like Trump and Erdogan makeing such stupid comments, reversing / bending the truth? They know that what they say is total bs.
Less people at inauguration? "Most people at inauguration ever !"
Considered a shady election by a lot of observers? "most democratic election" seen in any Western country"
and so on...
Being ashamed of your countrymen is a rapidly rising trend. I'm thouroughly ashamed to be British right now.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Ah, gotcha. :|
Hahahaha "most democratic election", channelling Trump real hard right there. Fuck you, Erdogan.
whyamihere
Banned
I'm not okay with the ability to change constitutions over mob rule that can exclusively benefit the strong at the expense of the weak, and I'm disappointed you are.
Considered a shady election by an organization Turkey founded even. They are longtime member of the OSCE.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
You know that you've ignored the point I made and just gone back to the start of your argument where you were most comfortable. If you're done with engaging, that's okay, but you don't have to make a tediously derivative response if so.
whyamihere
Banned
The point you made was Bad and completely ignores minority rights and I'm sort of aghast at your attempt to justify your bad opinion! But okay, goodbye!
Going forward Turkey won't be allowed in many things. Their previous shoot down of russian jets even had most of NATO including the US asking why are these people still in it.
Sultan Erdogan has his country. Watch as economically it craters and socio-culturally starts to mirror authoritarian states. Tourism was already in massove decline, won't be a surprise if it goes down even further now.
His Majesty
Banned
Good point made on Belgian TV. The next referendum will be on reinstating the death penalty. We will have Turkey campaigning in the European Union in favour of the death penalty. What a time to be alive.
I hope that leads to the European Union cutting all funding and discouraging tourism. Hitting Erdogan where it hurts the most could bring him back to the table.
///PATRIOT
Banned
Got a question for for Turkish guy, is the majority of Turkey's people pro-Erdogan?
Half of the turkish people in europe and arabia you mean.Well according to referandum only half of the people in Turkey are pro-erdogan
Would be curious about the actual results in only the turkey are.
To be fair the attacks are already doing that. I was set on going but now? Hell no.
Oppressed?
People let them vote for a dictatorship. Everyone let them make their shitty bed.
Food aid is generally used to disrupt imminent famine. Waiting 6-18 months on the crop to come in won't do anythng for famine in days or weeks.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah this is what bugs me. I can sort of get abject ignorance from very uneducated rural folks, since I'm not familiar with Turkey's education system and the literacy rate among rural Turks so I can't really judge them (I make no such excuses for rural Americans, though), but when actually decently educated people defend the notion of emboldening and empowering a dictator, I just.... SMH
I wasn't even aware this was going on until today.
What does this mean for Turkey, in layman's terms? The only headline I saw was something about RIP Turkey 1921-2017 and I instantly was worried.
Is democracy truly over in Turkey? Fuck, why is so much shit happening in the world right now?
What does this mean for Turkey, in layman's terms? The only headline I saw was something about RIP Turkey 1921-2017 and I instantly was worried.
Is democracy truly over in Turkey? Fuck, why is so much shit happening in the world right now?
Hesemonni
Banned
I dunno what I was expecting going to see the Index for Istanbul Stock exchange, but certainly not this.
I dunno what I was expecting going to see the Index for Istanbul Stock exchange, but certainly not this.
He did very well when he took power and was prime minister, hence his popularity, even in Europe at the time. Since 2013-4 however the economy is in flux, he's waging a war and dealing with a refugee problem, all drains on the economy. Withdrawing further from Europe, Turkey's main trading partner, will only exacerbate Turkey's economic problems. He was good at his job, became power-hungry,wiped the free press and painted himself as the savior of Turkey.
http://data.worldbank.org/country/Turkey
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/turkey/
Of course Trump calls Erdogan to congratulate. Nationalists all over the world are probably rubbing one out in the hope of doing the same thing in their country.
https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/854059951106424836
https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/854059951106424836
Frankfurter
Member
I dunno what I was expecting going to see the Index for Istanbul Stock exchange, but certainly not this.
The Turkish Lira is way down, so the chart looks much better than it actually is.
Stereogatari
Banned
It isn't truly over. In a weird way the referendum result was a phyrric victory for the opposition parties, since AKP have lost votes since previous election (assuming YES = Support for AKP/Erdogan).
Depending on how the next 2 years go there is a hilariously good chance that Erdogan will not be elected President for the first term of the new constitution.
It would be amazing if Erdogan somehow gives the presidency unlimited power, and then loses the presidency almost immediately after - sweet justice.
michaelius
Banned
That might be part of plan - poor people turn into populism easier.
Stereogatari
Banned
In Turkey it is not like that. If the economy goes then support for Erdogan will disappear.
I dunno what I was expecting going to see the Index for Istanbul Stock exchange, but certainly not this.
http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/turkey/publication/turkey-econ-note
Belgians are pissed off. There is a serious and substantial move from the higher powers to deprive them of dual citizenship, as it should be
http://www.dw.com/en/turkish-expats-living-in-europe-approve-erdogan-power-grab/a-38457205
http://www.dw.com/en/turkish-expats-living-in-europe-approve-erdogan-power-grab/a-38457205
That would be hilarious if it actually happened but is their someone good enough to challenge him in the next presidential election that can get past the AKP controlled media, is not locked up in a jail cell and can unite all Anti-AKP voters.
chromatic9
Member
I'd be looking at the integration rather the technicality of dual citizenship.
Can't help but think if the UK was at the top instead of near the bottom there'd be a huge pile on slamming the UK but because it's good guy Europe, people are like "oh".
They have been saying that for years and its the ppls only hope for against Erdogan but you should see the way his fanatics talk as if he is a war hero or some kind of messiah... Many ppl are living in bad conditions in inner Anatolia but yet he still gets the support from them.
One of the biggest fault of us (Turkish people) is being very emotional people. Logic and common sense is far behind when it comes to taking decisions lol. I guess it is because of the Islam maybe.
They don't get to fuck over millions of people without any consequence.
Caayn
Member
I wonder how the divide is between Turks who've ever lived in Turkey and plan to return vs the Turks that never lived in Turkey and don't plan to live there.
I'm sure the people in Turkey love the EU Turks.
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