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[YourMaster]

I wonder how the divide is between Turks who've ever lived in Turkey and plan to return vs the Turks that never lived in Turkey and don't plan to live there.

What I've read for Germany, Belgium, Netherlands is that there is a very sharp divide and it's mostly just the young people that have voted to legitimize Erdogan's coup. This is consistent with most research showing integration going backwards here.

 

[Joni]

What I've read for Germany, Belgium, Netherlands is that there is a very sharp divide and it's mostly just the young people that have voted to legitimize Erdogan's coup. This is consistent with most research showing integration going backwards here.

There can't be a sharp divide in Belgium when it had the second highest Yes percentage in the world and the highest voting percentage in Europe. You can't achieve that without support in all groups. Erdogan has always worked hard on his public relations in Belgium and Belgian Turks are mainly from Turkish rural areas which also voted heavily Yes in Turkey.

 

[Always-honest]

I must miss something in journalism because the Turkish seem very eager to be controlled by a dictator. That seems weird. What am i missing?

 

[Benjamin1981]

There can't be a sharp divide in Belgium when it had the second highest Yes percentage in the world and the highest voting percentage in Europe. You can't achieve that without support in all groups. Erdogan has always worked hard on his public relations in Belgium and Belgian Turks are mainly from Turkish rural areas which also voted heavily Yes in Turkey.

But how many Belgian turks voted in the referendum? In Germany 50% of the eligible turks voted and of those 50% 63% voted for Erdogan. The divide is real and those Erdogan supporting turks are the loudest and most agressive.

 

[Benjamin1981]

I must miss something in journalism because the Turkish seem very eager to be controlled by a dictator. That seems weird. What am i missing?

All journalists critical of Erdogan are either in jail or left the country. Media companies are controlled by Erdogan supporters. All those allegations of voter fraud are no topic in Turkish media according a german TV journalist who is in Turkey at the moment.

 

[Joni]

But how many Belgian turks voted in the referendum? In Germany 50% of the eligible turks voted and of those 50% 63% voted for Erdogan. The divide is real and those Erdogan supporting turks are the loudest and most agressive.

62.5% voted.

 

[YourMaster]

There can't be a sharp divide in Belgium when it had the second highest Yes percentage in the world and the highest voting percentage in Europe. You can't achieve that without support in all groups. Erdogan has always worked hard on his public relations in Belgium and Belgian Turks are mainly from Turkish rural areas which also voted heavily Yes in Turkey.

Sure you can. That doesn't mean there aren't some old people voting 'yes' and some young people voting 'no' though. But there are far fewer first generation Turks than there are second or third generation Turks. If you don't want to call the divide sharp, fine, I'm not arguing semantics, but he got far greater support from Turks born in Western Europe compared to Turks born in Turkey.

 

[Always-honest]

All journalists critical of Erdogan are either in jail or left the country. Media companies are controlled by Erdogan supporters. All those allegations of voter fraud are no topic in Turkish media according a german TV journalist who is in Turkey at the moment.

And the Turkish people themselves don't know about this?

 

[Stereogatari]

Sure you can. That doesn't mean there aren't some old people voting 'yes' and some young people voting 'no' though. But there are far fewer first generation Turks than there are second or third generation Turks. If you don't want to call the divide sharp, fine, I'm not arguing semantics, but he got far greater support from Turks born in Western Europe compared to Turks born in Turkey.

The real divide is Western Turkey VS Central/Eastern Turkey.

Most Turkish immigrants and descendants in Western Europe are from Central/Eastern Turkey.

It's almost like 2 seperate ethnic groups.

 

[Diancecht]

I'm sure the people in Turkey love the EU Turks.

EU Turks are 🐑 fucker Turks from Anatolia. Of course they can't integrate to their respective countries, of course they vote for AKP, of course they will act like fucking animals when they come back, like firing bullets in the sky, creating convoys of vehicles when they send their sons to army etc. Coastal Turks are VERY different from the rest of the Turks.

 

[SolidusDave]

But how many Belgian turks voted in the referendum? In Germany 50% of the eligible turks voted and of those 50% 63% voted for Erdogan. The divide is real and those Erdogan supporting turks are the loudest and most agressive.

You assume that there would be a different ratio for the people who didn't vote but we don't know that. It's actually rather unlikely to be vastly different.

Considering there was only a 30% vote for Yes in some other countries, you can't only reduce this to certain demographics within the Turkish communities.
There must be other factors with more impact - like successful immigration.
Unless for some reason all the old people stayed home in Germany etc while in Spain only the young people didn't go voting.

 

[Eccocid]

I wonder how the divide is between Turks who've ever lived in Turkey and plan to return vs the Turks that never lived in Turkey and don't plan to live there.

Ok there is a divide between Turks who live abroad (migrated in 60's as workers) and who lives there as expats (or went abroad for higher education and started to work there).

The worker class were from Anatolia and they had less educated background and they have more patriotic feelings. They always mention how they miss Turkey but never plan to move back here. They usually visit in summer and spend their euros lol and it's hard to not like in here when you spend euro. And they live in close society from what i see.
But i am sure if you give them choice between staying at Europe or returning back to here 99% will stay in Europe yet they vote for Erdogan duh.

Now others who went abroad have a purpose to go there. Some of them return after education, since higher education in other countries are valuable here they get better jobs. Some stay there depending on their luck about finding a job etc. These people doesn't go abroad for the sake of going they go to get better standarts. They are against Erdogan. (If you have proper (world standart not religious etc) education you dont support Erdogan).
Now there is a 3rd wave which became more crowded (including me) after the coup. They just wanna leave Turkey for good but with a proper setup at abroad. Applying for jobs or special visas if they can. Ths group is fed up with the system here and don't wanna contribute or get crushed with it. But they are more cautios they just dont wanna go abroad and spend days with lower income jobs. For example i applied for a special visa aggrement between UK and Turkey. Called Ankara Agreement. (yeah UK doesn't sound like a perfect choice now but it is the one i can get with less hassle). I have to setu up my own company and work as usual. With this visa i can't work in an other company as an employee, i can only run my own company which is ok since i am a designer i can work with contracts too. I have been building a network for the past few months (i have an international ad agency background) So if everything goes well once i settled i will start to work from day 1 with the clients i am building up and pay ridiculous amount of tax lol (same as in here tbh)

 

[Joni]

Sure you can. That doesn't mean there aren't some old people voting 'yes' and some young people voting 'no' though. But there are far fewer first generation Turks than there are second or third generation Turks. If you don't want to call the divide sharp, fine, I'm not arguing semantics, but he got far greater support from Turks born in Western Europe compared to Turks born in Turkey.

I'd love to see those statistics then because it sure seems a lot more focused on their origin - Kurdish versus rural Turks - than on their age.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

EU Turks are 🐑 fucker Turks from Anatolia. Of course they can't integrate to their respective countries, of course they vote for AKP, of course they will act like fucking animals when they come back, like firing bullets in the sky, creating convoys of vehicles when they send their sons to army etc. Coastal Turks are VERY different from the rest of the Turks.

You sound like a level headed and tolerant person.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

And the Turkish people themselves don't know about this?

Fake news? Liberal biased lying press? I mean the US voted in a child as President. Brexit happened based on nothing but lies and nostalgia. Nothing new to see here unfortunately.

Majority of humans is stupid/naive/ignorant and we now see the results of said ignorance and stupidity.

Also regarding the EU Turkish votes, no matter what way you vote if you live abroad, it's a dick move either way, as it doesn't affect you.

 

[HarryHengst]

And the Turkish people themselves don't know about this?

Either they dont or they dont care. A lot of them only watch Turkish television so kinda hard to reach them when Erdogan controls the narrative from the beginning to the end. They are a bit like GOP supporters who only watch FOX news.

 

[MistakenMobius]

You sound like a level headed and tolerant person.

Well he isn't right you know.

Why should we be tolerant toward people that support religious rules and are bringing back the country a 100 years back and on the way to quasi dictatorship?

 

[War Peaceman]

I'm sure the people in Turkey love the EU Turks.

Weirdly I think the UK Turks were massively for no. But the stats may have changed since I saw them last.

 

[ty_hot]

As in the Brexit, big cities, more developed regions voted no, rural areas yes. Impressive how big is the difference in population density though.

 

[Diancecht]

As in the Brexit, big cities, more developed regions voted no, rural areas yes. Impressive how big is the difference in population density though.

That's the wrong one. This is for the referandum. All the big cities voted no:

 

[Always-honest]

Fake news? Liberal biased lying press? I mean the US voted in a child as President. Brexit happened based on nothing but lies and nostalgia. Nothing new to see here unfortunately.

Majority of humans is stupid/naive/ignorant and we now see the results of said ignorance and stupidity.

Also regarding the EU Turkish votes, no matter what way you vote if you live abroad, it's a dick move either way, as it doesn't affect you.

Yeah, i guess that's true.

 

[CTLance]

Aw man. So it looks like he's gonna scrape through. Dammit.

My heartfelt condolences. To all of us.

...I honestly don't know what to think about the fact that nearly two out of three Turks in my country voted for the complete and utter destruction of the traditional Turkish democracy. It just boggles my mind.

 

[oti]

BREAKING: Turkey's main opposition party submits formal request seeking referendum to be annulled, citing irregularities.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/854310971250270209

 

[Xater]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/854310971250270209

Let's see how far that goes. I am sure Erdogan will respond really well to something like this...

 

[Funyarinpa]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/854310971250270209

I wish ;_;

 

[FoxSpirit]

I'm sure the people in Turkey love the EU Turks.

Should add in:
Austria - Yes (73.23%)

 

[UCBooties]

I just saw a news crawl that Donald Trump had called to congratulate Erdogan.

He runs a campaign built partly on fear-mongering about fundamentalist Islam and then calls to congratulate an Islamic hardliner who's planning to dismantle a secular democratic state. I know they are (for now) our allies, but come the fuck on, man.

 

[Funyarinpa]

I just saw a news crawl that Donald Trump had called to congratulate Erdogan.

He runs a campaign built partly on fear-mongering about fundamentalist Islam and then calls to congratulate an Islamic hardliner who's planning to dismantle a secular democratic state. I know they are (for now) our allies, but come the fuck on, man.

Erdoğan didn't say shit to that through-and-through Islamophobe, either. Wonder why none of his bootlickers ever touched upon that...

 

[AndyD]

I just saw a news crawl that Donald Trump had called to congratulate Erdogan.

He runs a campaign built partly on fear-mongering about fundamentalist Islam and then calls to congratulate an Islamic hardliner who's planning to dismantle a secular democratic state. I know they are (for now) our allies, but come the fuck on, man.

I think the thought process is like this: US is at its core a Christian nation, and we should be able to hold onto those ideals and impose them on others. Turkey is an Islamic nation and they should be able to ....

It's a "to each his own" mentality. Nationalistic hardliners everywhere will control their own borders and not go around being the "world police". It's one of the reasons Lybia is seen as a failure by Conservatives, "so what if Gaddafi was a tyrant, at least he kept refugees from flowing into EU".

 

[SolidusDave]

I just saw a news crawl that Donald Trump had called to congratulate Erdogan.

He runs a campaign built partly on fear-mongering about fundamentalist Islam and then calls to congratulate an Islamic hardliner who's planning to dismantle a secular democratic state. I know they are (for now) our allies, but come the fuck on, man.

Even without the irony, is that a normal thing to do? This wasn't even an election. Did other (Western) heads of governments congratulate him as well?

The official German statement was "The German government has taken note of the preliminary result." lol
(and the unofficial ones were of course not as nice)



Did someone do the numbers yet if the votes from other countries were the tipping point for that 1-2% (if that's not anyway just due to trickery)?


Going by this interactive map it seems like overall most European votes were for Yes:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...timmten-die-auslandstuerken-ab-a-1143662.html
(scroll down)
It's in German, sorry. "Ergebnis" = voting result (with blue = yes and red = no). When you click on the "Wahlberechtigte" tab you can see how many Turks were eligible to vote.
Sadly, the vast majority (i.e. Germany, and France somewhat) live in places that voted Yes...

I guess Turkish immigrants in the other countries are almost all from the Turkish cities etc. instead of the rural areas like the German Turks? Otherwise I have NO idea how the results can be THAT different between neighboring European countries. Like, only 27% voted No in Austria vs. 62% in Switzerland. Wat.
Spain has 87% No voters, I didn't even think you can get that high in public referendums unless the question asked would be "do you want the devil to murder your firstborn son?".

 

[azyless]

I guess Turkish immigrants in the other countries are almost all from the Turkish cities etc. instead of the rural areas like the German Turks? Otherwise I have NO idea how the results can be THAT different between neighboring European countries. Like, only 27% voted No in Austria vs. 62% in Switzerland. Wat.
Spain has 87% No voters, I didn't even think you can get that high in public referendums unless the question asked would be "do you want the devil to murder your firstborn son?".

Well there are other things to consider like when did immigration start or how many are there in the country (it's easier to make integration go well with 4 000 spanish turks than it is with 800 000 french turks for example). The Netherlands, Belgium, France and Austria are among the most turkish-populated countries in Europe and immigration only started in the late 20th century.