Support NeoGAF

[plagiarize]

Because you're a big fan of Twin Peaks and you'd have to be some sort of mentalist (watch it!) to give up on a show you really like just because the first 5 episodes of the new series haven't been quite what you've hoped?

I want to make this abundantly clear by the way, I have enjoyed some of the new stuff. Not all of it, but some of it.

Seems like everyone is cooling down a bit.

I said this earlier to someone else, but I hope we all end up loving it by the end, because it'd suck to wait for something like this and be left disappointed... but in your shoes I'd stick with it too. I adored Part 1 and 2, then Part 3 lost me and I was panicked that it was going to be like that going forwards. I'm glad that only lasted about an hour.

When all is said and done I'm glad that Twin Peaks is a show that does what it wants, viewers be damned. I'm glad it takes risks, even if it sometimes loses me with certain choices.

I wouldn't enjoy watching your hypothetical Part 6, but I'd admire the audacity of it, and probably get a kick out of other people's reactions to it.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Part 3 was my favourite. I thought it was amazing.

 

[plagiarize]

Part 3 was my favourite. I thought it was amazing.

It's grown on me in rewatches, but I have this very personal struggle with how it looks less like film and more like video for the majority of it's running time. It does something to my brain that I wish it didn't.

The video look makes me feel like I'm watching Harry Goaz, Kimmy Robertson and Michael Horse rehearsing a scene on set, vs making me feel like I'm watching Andy, Lucy and Hawk at the Sheriff's Office.

It doesn't help that no one else even seems to see the difference, let alone feel the same way about it. I'm glad that Part 5 didn't look like that at any moment, because it kind of breaks my ability to buy into what I'm seeing on screen. I'm sure it's intentional, so it's hard to say it's bad, but it's a choice I personally wish hadn't been made, and I hope Lynch doesn't do it again.

The Dougie stuff got easier once I started to pick up on the triggers, and the small improvements that come with each one, something I didn't pick up on the first time I watched Part 3.

On a Twin Peaks scale (1 being Evelyn Marsh and 10 being Episode 14 / Episode 29 quality) I'd rate the five parts 9, 9, 5, 7, 9 so far. Part 3 is, for me, by far the worst David Lynch directed 'episode' of Twin Peaks.

 

[PolishQ]

Oh hey the "something missing" that Hawk is looking for could be Briggs' body. I have to wonder if they pulled any remains from the fire, or if someone else's body was burned and made to look like Briggs.

 

[plagiarize]

Oh hey the "something missing" that Hawk is looking for could be Briggs' body. I have to wonder if they pulled any remains from the fire, or if someone else's body was burned and made to look like Briggs.

Ah yes, the old Andrew Packard trick.

It would be the third time in the series someone was thought dead in a fire when they weren't.

 

[jetjevons]

I'm actualie getting tired of the Dougie stuff as well. I really hope it's ultimately relevant. I want Dale back. He was the heart and soul of Twin Peaks. His incite, decisiveness and open minded approach to investigating literally made the show for me.

 

[big ander]

Lynch is more justified in saying it than most tv-makers but the whole "actually? our TV show is a long movie." thing is always bullshit

At best—for example this show thus far—it means the episodes are a little loosely structured but still discretely great. at worst—a lot of streaming stuff—it means seasons have long periods of drag.
And it doesn't even mean anything from a critical perspective. like being a long movie is better somehow? It's 2017, TV isn't a second-class medium anymore

Oh hey the "something missing" that Hawk is looking for could be Briggs' body. I have to wonder if they pulled any remains from the fire, or if someone else's body was burned and made to look like Briggs.

possible. I still think it's the owl cave ring

 

[plagiarize]

Lynch is more justified in saying it than most tv-makers but the whole "actually? our TV show is a long movie." thing is always bullshit

At best—for example this show thus far—it means the episodes are a little loosely structured but still discretely great. at worst—a lot of streaming stuff—it means seasons have long periods of drag.
And it doesn't even mean anything from a critical perspective. like being a long movie is better somehow? It's 2017, TV isn't a second-class medium anymore

It's literally true though here.

This was treated like an 18 hour movie. One script was written, that didn't include episode breaks. The whole thing was shot like a movie from that single script. Then, once filming was completed post production was began and only in the edit bay did they consider how to break up the parts.

They didn't write 18 parts. They wrote one long story and broke it up after the fact.

Because it was written and shot as one long piece. That's what they're referring to.

 

[hamchan]

I've stated before that my tolerance for Dougie Jones, and just the lack of Twin Peaks the town in this series, is the halfway point of the season. Anything more than that and I'll think it's a bummer.

I will admire David Lynch for trying this 18 hour long movie format. Twin Peaks is in such a unique position to do this since there's no fear of cancellation, no fear that they need to hook an audience since the audience already got hooked over the past 25 years. I'm not really sure the format entirely works though but I'll judge it at the end of the season.

 

[Blader]

Lynch is more justified in saying it than most tv-makers but the whole "actually? our TV show is a long movie." thing is always bullshit

At best—for example this show thus far—it means the episodes are a little loosely structured but still discretely great. at worst—a lot of streaming stuff—it means seasons have long periods of drag.
And it doesn't even mean anything from a critical perspective. like being a long movie is better somehow? It's 2017, TV isn't a second-class medium anymore

I don't think it's a movie vs. tv argument, I think it's a matter of how the episodes are being formatted. Something like House of Cards is still written as 13 distinct episodes, with their own beginnings, middles, and ends. If the pacing drags, it's because the writers allow it to drag, knowing most of their viewers are going to watch them so close together that the drags blend together.

Whereas this season of Twin Peaks was literally written and shot as one complete work: one 400ish-page script, all shot together, rather than 18 individual scripts that were each filmed during separate shooting blocs. So the "this is an 18-hour movie" thing isn't supposed to be a badge of prestige (imo), but just to point out the pacing is going to be what it is because this thing was fundamentally structured differently from usual tv shows, streaming or otherwise.

 

[Dan-o]

Five hours into an 18-hour film is about 28 percent of the whole thing. A half hour into a regular two-hour film is 25 percent of the whole thing. That's why he said we're relatively a half hour into the movie now. Not that we're literally 30 minutes into The 18-Hour Twin Peaks Movie.

That's how I understood it too. Essentially, we're not even through Act One yet (assuming, of course, this is a Three Act story... and that's not a great assumption for me to make...)

I think it's perfectly okay for people not to be in love with it. I have issues with a small number of things, while I think my wife is not enjoying it nearly as much, although she's still on board with the whole thing.

I need to re-watch part 5 again before commenting too much about it. It's clear that, whoever Dougie was, he was clearly kind of an idiot, as no one seems to really notice how strange Cooper-as-Dougie is now. Funny that the one co-worker is suddenly attracted to him. Hell, maybe she always was.

Dr. Amp. Holy shit... so funny. He's the Alex Jones of Twin Peaks. What a great payoff to the scenes showing him receiving the shovels, and painting the shovels, almost as if we should have expected something more than shit-digging.

 

[Charles Brandon]

It's grown on me in rewatches, but I have this very personal struggle with how it looks less like film and more like video for the majority of it's running time. It does something to my brain that I wish it didn't.

The video look makes me feel like I'm watching Harry Goaz, Kimmy Robertson and Michael Horse rehearsing a scene on set, vs making me feel like I'm watching Andy, Lucy and Hawk at the Sheriff's Office.

It doesn't help that no one else even seems to see the difference, let alone feel the same way about it. I'm glad that Part 5 didn't look like that at any moment, because it kind of breaks my ability to buy into what I'm seeing on screen. I'm sure it's intentional, so it's hard to say it's bad, but it's a choice I personally wish hadn't been made, and I hope Lynch doesn't do it again.

The Dougie stuff got easier once I started to pick up on the triggers, and the small improvements that come with each one, something I didn't pick up on the first time I watched Part 3.

On a Twin Peaks scale (1 being Evelyn Marsh and 10 being Episode 14 / Episode 29 quality) I'd rate the five parts 9, 9, 5, 7, 9 so far. Part 3 is, for me, by far the worst David Lynch directed 'episode' of Twin Peaks.

Episode 3 is the one with Cooper passing through that weird space room place with someone banging on the door, yeah? I thought that scene was incredible. Hit me right in the Eraserheads. Deeply unsettling.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't think it's a movie vs. tv argument, I think it's a matter of format. Something like House of Cards is still written as 13 distinct episodes, with their own beginnings, middles, and ends. If the pacing drags, it's because the writers allow it to drag, knowing most of their viewers are going to watch them so close together that the drags blend together.

Whereas this season of Twin Peaks was literally written and shot as one complete work: one 400ish-page script, all shot together, rather than 18 individual scripts that were each filmed during separate shooting blocs. So the "this is an 18-hour movie" thing isn't supposed to be a badge of prestige (imo), but just to point out the pacing is going to be what it is because this thing was fundamentally structured differently from usual tv shows, streaming or otherwise.

Exactly. Like, if this was a regular TV series, you wouldn't end Part 4 with hints as to a certain woman who needs to check in on Coop, and then not reveal who that is in Part 5. But that's because the scene in Part 4 wasn't designed as any sort of a cliff hanger. We'll get back to that story thread when we get back to it.

I do suspect certain scenes have been moved around to give them better break points, or to spread out certain scenes better... but again, I'm sure that all happened in the edit bay if at all.

Basically it means that you can't have any expectations for the Parts to do any particular thing. They could stay in one place for the whole hour. They could check in with every storyline. They could be multiple days worth of happenings, or an hours worth of happenings. We thought we knew how they were all going to end, but that turned out not to be the case with Part 5.

Episode 3 is the one with Cooper passing through that weird space room place with someone banging on the door, yeah? I thought that scene was incredible. Hit me right in the Eraserheads. Deeply unsettling.

Yes, it is. That scene threw me a bit on the first watch, because my stream had hitched a few times during Part 1 and Part 2, so I couldn't tell if my stream was messing up or if it was meant to look that way, which took me out of it unfortunately. It's probably my favorite part of that episode now though.

 

[PolishQ]

possible. I still think it's the owl cave ring

Things that could be missing (so far):
- the Owl Cave ring
- Annie
- pages of Laura's diary
- the Great Northern key
- Briggs' body
- Briggs' head

Or it could be that Hawk will encounter Evil Cooper posing as Good Cooper and he'll have to notice that "something is missing" either in Cooper's behavior, memories, or possessions.

 

[big ander]

It's literally true though here.

This was treated like an 18 hour movie. One script was written, that didn't include episode breaks. The whole thing was shot like a movie from that single script. Then, once filming was completed post production was began and only in the edit bay did they consider how to break up the parts.

They didn't write 18 parts. They wrote one long story and broke it up after the fact.

Because it was written and shot as one long piece. That's what they're referring to.

I know, and that production model is why Lynch is far more justified in describing the show that way than Random Hulu Showrunner or whatever, as I said.

However: it is still factually a tv show. as you say, in post they broke it up into episodes. They edited it together into hourlong chunks with opening and closing credits. Those hours are being aired weekly at a certain time on a television network.

I'm aware I'm nitpicking but I'm not like, knotted up about it—I'm merely saying that Lynch's statements about it are (while he's likely not aware of it) part of a trend in the streaming era of showrunners/creators trying to pretend their tv show isn't a tv show. It's nothing to be ashamed of! Berlin Alexanderplatz is a tv show. Top of the Lake is a tv show. The Decalogue is a tv show.

Twin Peaks: The Return is a tv show. Lynch and Frost produced it a certain way, but it is a tv show and is rightfully being watched as one, and therefore I completely get why some are frustrated with the individual episodes. (I am decidedly not. these have been up there with the best episodes of the show.) Countering complaints that the show is very gradual and the episodes are lacking in conventional structure (both true!) with "well it's an 18 hour movie" doesn't hold water because it's not. it was produced in the manner of an 18 hour movie. it is a television show.

 

[PolishQ]

I'm aware I'm nitpicking but I'm not like, knotted up about it—I'm merely saying that Lynch's statements about it are (while he's likely not aware of it) part of a trend in the streaming era of showrunners/creators trying to pretend their tv show isn't a tv show. It's nothing to be ashamed of! Berlin Alexanderplatz is a tv show. Top of the Lake is a tv show. The Decalogue is a tv show.

There's still the possibility that we'll get a different presentation when it comes to blu-ray. I'm thinking of something like Ingmar Bergman's "Fanny and Alexander", which has both a TV version broken into episodes and a combined "really long film" version (although the TV version is actually longer in total).

 

[big ander]

I don't think it's a movie vs. tv argument, I think it's a matter of how the episodes are being formatted. Something like House of Cards is still written as 13 distinct episodes, with their own beginnings, middles, and ends. If the pacing drags, it's because the writers allow it to drag, knowing most of their viewers are going to watch them so close together that the drags blend together.

Whereas this season of Twin Peaks was literally written and shot as one complete work: one 400ish-page script, all shot together, rather than 18 individual scripts that were each filmed during separate shooting blocs. So the "this is an 18-hour movie" thing isn't supposed to be a badge of prestige (imo), but just to point out the pacing is going to be what it is because this thing was fundamentally structured differently from usual tv shows, streaming or otherwise.

See I agree with all this—I guess my only point is that if people are bristling at that very unconventional pacing it is wholly understandable. The narrative flow has been off-kilter and a little off-putting. I love it and think it works and expect it to dovetail as the season progresses. But anybody who's feeling out in the weeds now doesn't have to learn to accept it because "it's an 18 hour movie." I think they're right to feel a little stranded because it is, despite everything, a TV show. A very, very weird TV show.

Things that could be missing (so far):
- the Owl Cave ring
- Annie
- pages of Laura's diary
- the Great Northern key
- Briggs' body
- Briggs' head

Or it could be that Hawk will encounter Evil Cooper posing as Good Cooper and he'll have to notice that "something is missing" either in Cooper's behavior, memories, or possessions.

I read a theory on the key being it but it seemed shaky. something about how there's a small story in the Secret History that links Hawk to a waterfall, and maybe the waterfall is the one under the Northern, so he'll travel there and find the key. stretch imo, I'm not thinking the minutiae of the books will become central to the show. but anything's possible

 

[VistraNorrez]

I think when Lynch/Frost say it's a long movie they just mean each part isn't like a typical TV show. There is no theme or plot line that is exclusively explored in an episode. Think of how Lost would make an episode about a specific character and flashback to their life. The next episode would be someone else. Yea the whole series was a long story, but they tried to make each episode have a story of its own.

That is not what Twin Peaks 2017 is doing at all. It was written as one long script. So the way it's getting cut up is so that first few parts are establishing plot points that will reach a conclusion by the last few parts. There is no concern for giving a character a plot line that resolves within that part.

I have no idea how to judge something like that until it's all out there. I can say if I like something or not, but putting it in context is hard.

Like with the Cooper plotline, I don't know how important the things he is doing and experiencing will be later. I mean when Coop dropped the key, we thought it was just a cute way for him to dodge a bullet. But it may also be how someone in Twin Peaks follows Coops trail. The whole Mr Jackpots thing just seemed like a funny scene. I never expected to see Bret Gelman again. But that has led to the introduction of even more characters.

It's easy to say something should be cut or shortened for faster pacing, but we don't know if the thing cut might actually have information necessary for later.

 

[plagiarize]

I know, and that production model is why Lynch is far more justified in describing the show that way than Random Hulu Showrunner or whatever, as I said.

However: it is still factually a tv show. as you say, in post they broke it up into episodes. They edited it together into hourlong chunks with opening and closing credits. Those hours are being aired weekly at a certain time on a television network.

Except when they aren't. When they've premiered episodes back to back, they've only run a single opening and closing credits on the two hour chunk. I hope someday to watch the whole thing in a solid 18 hour block without interruptions. Even this past Sunday, when they re-aired the first four parts, they did it in two blocks of two... and I think they play better that way (although Part 3 and 4 don't gain nearly as much as Part 1 and 2 do when aired as a two hour movie).

I'm aware I'm nitpicking but I'm not like, knotted up about it—I'm merely saying that Lynch's statements about it are (while he's likely not aware of it) part of a trend in the streaming era of showrunners/creators trying to pretend their tv show isn't a tv show. It's nothing to be ashamed of! Berlin Alexanderplatz is a tv show. Top of the Lake is a tv show. The Decalogue is a tv show.

Twin Peaks: The Return is a tv show. Lynch and Frost produced it a certain way, but it is a tv show and is rightfully being watched as one, and therefore I completely get why some are frustrated with the individual episodes. (I am decidedly not. these have been up there with the best episodes of the show.) Countering complaints that the show is very gradual and the episodes are lacking in conventional structure (both true!) with "well it's an 18 hour movie" doesn't hold water because it's not. it was produced in the manner of an 18 hour movie. it is a television show.

I don't think they're ashamed of it being a TV show. I think they're just trying to prepare people for what is proving to be a different kind of viewing experience. Plus it's unlikely that the series will ever really be watched an hour a week after this first airing.

That said, yeah, I don't think it's unfair for people to judge it as a TV show, since that's how it's airing. Grading each episode is kind of weird (but I've done it myself). That it exists currently an hour a week is a transient thing. But it's still how it currently exists.

Like with a lot of things in this series, it gives us a lot to think about.

 

[Blader]

See I agree with all this—I guess my only point is that if people are bristling at that very unconventional pacing it is wholly understandable. The narrative flow has been off-kilter and a little off-putting. I love it and think it works and expect it to dovetail as the season progresses. But anybody who's feeling out in the weeds now doesn't have to learn to accept it because "it's an 18 hour movie." I think they're right to feel a little stranded because it is, despite everything, a TV show. A very, very weird TV show.

Sure, and I don't begrudge anyone for feeling like that either. All I'm saying is that the 18-hour movie remarks aren't faux-artiste bullshit airs that Lynch is putting on to sound self-important, and that the structure is literally the force behind the slow and off-kilter pace of the season. And it's why I've recommended that people dissatisfied with the pace of how things are moving to stop watching for now, wait for it to end, and then plow through it at their own discretion. Not in a "fuck you for not liking what I like, get out of here" way, but just that this thing has one beginning, one ending, and one very long middle that we're just scraping the surface of right now, and that that won't be changing.

 

[Enoch Root]

It's clear that, whoever Dougie was, he was clearly kind of an idiot, as no one seems to really notice how strange Cooper-as-Dougie is now.

Dr. Amp. Holy shit... so funny. He's the Alex Jones of Twin Peaks. What a great payoff to the scenes showing him receiving the shovels, and painting the shovels, almost as if we should have expected something more than shit-digging.

That's a good point about Dougie being an idiot. Since he was 'created' and came into being as an adult, maybe he was sort of like Frankenstein and not very bright.

In regard to the golden shovels, I was thinking he was planning a construction project. When they have a CEO wear a hard had for a photo op and break ground on a new project, they call it a golden shovel ceremony.

 

[Flipyap]

I read a theory on the key being it but it seemed shaky. something about how there's a small story in the Secret History that links Hawk to a waterfall, and maybe the waterfall is the one under the Northern, so he'll travel there and find the key. stretch imo, I'm not thinking the minutiae of the books will become central to the show. but anything's possible

There's a more efficient way to show that the Great Northern has "something to do with Hawk's heritage."

 

[plagiarize]

That's a good point about Dougie being an idiot. Since he was 'created' and came into being as an adult, maybe he was sort of like Frankenstein and not very bright.

In regard to the golden shovels, I was thinking he was planning a construction project. When they have a CEO wear a hard had for a photo op and break ground on a new project, they call it a golden shovel ceremony.

Maybe he was always a savant with women, (and numbers), but other than that a bit of a moron.

 

[Dan-o]

That's a good point about Dougie being an idiot. Since he was 'created' and came into being as an adult, maybe he was sort of like Frankenstein and not very bright.

Ah, yeah. Good comparison! People in this thread have also joked about, "How could a guy like Dougie snag a woman like Naomi Watts?" but... I'm thinking she's also not too bright either. I hope we get a scene where we get to see where she works or what she does during the day.

In regard to the golden shovels, I was thinking he was planning a construction project. When they have a CEO wear a hard had for a photo op and break ground on a new project, they call it a golden shovel ceremony.

Definitely. I saw something else on another show recently regarding golden shovels. Can't remember what it was now. But yeah... that was a logical expectation. Not... Dr. Amp.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

So, what are the theories on the

Spoiler

"Cow jumped over the moon" cut to a box turning into a marble stuff

?

 

[plagiarize]

So, what are the theories on the

Spoiler

"Cow jumped over the moon" cut to a box turning into a marble stuff

?

The "Cow jumped over the moon" is a code phrase in my opinion, so it could mean literally anything. The box imho self destructs by imploding, rather than turning into something else. Again, just my take.

So maybe covering his tracks somehow. Like they trace the call to a destroyed box in Buenos Aires and can't tell what it did.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I'm sure it's been discussed to death, but does anyone know/have a theory as to why the opening of the first episode is in black and white?

 

[Flipyap]

You know what, screw Special Agent Dale Cooper, I want to see how DUGE and Johnny Horne would get together.

 

[big ander]

Except when they aren't. When they've premiered episodes back to back, they've only run a single opening and closing credits on the two hour chunk. I hope someday to watch the whole thing in a solid 18 hour block without interruptions. Even this past Sunday, when they re-aired the first four parts, they did it in two blocks of two... and I think they play better that way (although Part 3 and 4 don't gain nearly as much as Part 1 and 2 do when aired as a two hour movie).

y'know I've actually watched 1–4 in both forms—each as an individual hour and as two two-hour blocks—and I thought the hourlongs worked better for all. especially 3 & 4 like you say, those hours are wildly different.

as for some eventual reedited presentation where all 18 are shown at once like you and polishq describe: damn that'd be a long sit! I know if that existed on dvd I'd never watch it that way, I'd get cabin fever. Maybe if theaters did it as a weekend-long event, the way they do say Out 1, with 6 hours on Friday/Sat./Sunday.

Sure, and I don't begrudge anyone for feeling like that either. All I'm saying is that the 18-hour movie remarks aren't faux-artiste bullshit airs that Lynch is putting on to sound self-important, and that the structure is literally the force behind the slow and off-kilter pace of the season. And it's why I've recommended that people dissatisfied with the pace of how things are moving to stop watching for now, wait for it to end, and then plow through it at their own discretion. Not in a "fuck you for not liking what I like, get out of here" way, but just that this thing has one beginning, one ending, and one very long middle that we're just scraping the surface of right now, and that that won't be changing.

Oh yeah totally. I'm glad it didn't all go up at once, the week to week discussion's fun, but I do think the season would benefit from binge watching in ways.

There's a more efficient way to show that the Great Northern has "something to do with Hawk's heritage."

Hmm good point. and I mean, the key does have to factor in somehow...
I'd still place a bet on the ring ahead of the key though.

 

[Solo]

I'm in Canada, so I'm watching this on TMN rather than directly on Showtime. Just wondering if they aren't doing previews for the next episode at all, or if it's just because I'm watching on TMN and they're getting cut?

 

[plagiarize]

y'know I've actually watched 1–4 in both forms—each as an individual hour and as two two-hour blocks—and I thought the hourlongs worked better for all. especially 3 & 4 like you say, those hours are wildly different.

as for some eventual reedited presentation where all 18 are shown at once like you and polishq describe: damn that'd be a long sit! I know if that existed on dvd I'd never watch it that way, I'd get cabin fever. Maybe if theaters did it as a weekend-long event, the way they do say Out 1, with 6 hours on Friday/Sat./Sunday.

Well, they'll have to break up any physical media releases. The only way you could release something 18 hours long unbroken would be broadcast, digital download or streaming! I don't normally do fan edits, but if that ends up the only way to do an 18 hour unbroken run, I want to do that at least once.

I'm in Canada, so I'm watching this on TMN rather than directly on Showtime. Just wondering if they aren't doing previews for the next episode at all, or if it's just because I'm watching on TMN and they're getting cut?

No previews.

 

[PolishQ]

as for some eventual reedited presentation where all 18 are shown at once like you and polishq describe: damn that'd be a long sit! I know if that existed on dvd I'd never watch it that way, I'd get cabin fever. Maybe if theaters did it as a weekend-long event, the way they do say Out 1, with 6 hours on Friday/Sat./Sunday.

Three 6-hour chunks would probably be the most ideal way to watch it. I could see myself doing that once the box set is released.

I also think the show will look leaps and bounds better on blu-ray.

 

[Flipyap]

Hmm good point. and I mean, the key does have to factor in somehow...
I'd still place a bet on the ring ahead of the key though.

Though is there any way finding the ring could move the story forward? It doesn't mean anything to Hawk & Co. (mainly because it was invented for Fire Walk With Me). Everything else on PolishQ's list would be a pretty big breakthrough.

 

[plagiarize]

Three 6-hour chunks would probably be the most ideal way to watch it. I could see myself doing that once the box set is released.

I also think the show will look leaps and bounds better on blu-ray.

I hooooooooope so.

 

[PolishQ]

I'm in Canada, so I'm watching this on TMN rather than directly on Showtime. Just wondering if they aren't doing previews for the next episode at all, or if it's just because I'm watching on TMN and they're getting cut?

You can see a "preview" for the next part on Showtime's site but it's just clips from part 5: http://www.sho.com/twin-peaks/the-return/part/6

 

[plagiarize]

Though is there any way finding the ring could move the story forward? It doesn't mean anything to Hawk & Co. (mainly because it was invented for Fire Walk With Me). Everything else on PolishQ's list would be a pretty big breakthrough.

Well, you say that... but Dougie Milford seems to have been wearing it in series 2. So they may have seen it before.

 

[RepairmanJack]

I'm sure it's been discussed to death, but does anyone know/have a theory as to why the opening of the first episode is in black and white?

My guess is it may be the Room above the Convenience Store, or at least not the Black Lodge.

 

[Enoch Root]

The "Cow jumped over the moon" is a code phrase in my opinion, so it could mean literally anything. The box imho self destructs by imploding, rather than turning into something else. Again, just my take.

So maybe covering his tracks somehow. Like they trace the call to a destroyed box in Buenos Aires and can't tell what it did.

Did Phillip Jeffires have something to do with Buenos Aires? I haven't watched FWWM in a while and can't remember. And earlier in the episode, there was a scene with a woman making a call to a black box. Was it the same box?

 

[Solo]

Three 6-hour chunks would probably be the most ideal way to watch it. I could see myself doing that once the box set is released.

I think I'd flip that and do 3 episodes a day over 6 days.

 

[plagiarize]

Did Phillip Jeffires have something to do with Buenos Aires? I haven't watched FWWM in a while and can't remember. And earlier in the episode, there was a scene with a woman making a call to a black box. Was it the same box?

Yes, it was the same box.

Philip Jeffries was in Buenos Aires in the missing pieces. We don't know why though.

 

[PolishQ]

My guess is it may be the Room above the Convenience Store, or at least not the Black Lodge.

I think it's a place we haven't seen yet, and I also think this scene is a flash-forward. I believe Cooper will arrive at this place towards the end of the season's narrative. The Cooper we see here is much more experienced and sure of himself. "I understand," he says with confidence. This is Cooper after he's reclaimed his self, and then some.

Yes, it was the same box.

Philip Jeffries was in Buenos Aires in the missing pieces. We don't know why though.

He was there either meeting with or investigating Judy.

 

[Flipyap]

Three 6-hour chunks would probably be the most ideal way to watch it. I could see myself doing that once the box set is released.

I also think the show will look leaps and bounds better on blu-ray.

Speaking of which, how much HD video can they fit on one blu-ray nowadays? I'm having trouble finding the longest (HD) blu-ray release.

Well, you say that... but Dougie Milford seems to have been wearing it in series 2. So they may have seen it before.

Heh. It's obviously not the same prop, but I guess where there's a will, there's a retcon.

 

[RepairmanJack]

I think it's a place we haven't seen yet, and I also think this scene is a flash-forward. I believe Cooper will arrive at this place towards the end of the season's narrative. The Cooper we see here is much more experienced and sure of himself. "I understand," he says with confidence. This is Cooper after he's reclaimed his self, and then some.

Yeah, I could see that. My other though was possibly a trip with in a trip or dream within a dream? It seemed so similar to Coops first time in the red room that I wondered if it was some kind of dream similar to that but with him already in the Lodge.

Inception!

 

[big ander]

Though is there any way finding the ring could move the story forward? It doesn't mean anything to Hawk & Co. (mainly because it was invented for Fire Walk With Me). Everything else on PolishQ's list would be a pretty big breakthrough.

I'm not sure how it'd move the story forward, but I'm also not sure how finding the key (what would they find int he room and how would it lead to Coop?) or pages from Laura's diary (what more info could there be there? the note from Annie?) would either.
My reasons for throwing my bet behind it are 1) Owl Cave was a native american site 2) it was apparently involved somehow in the creation of Dougie, has powers connected to the lodges, and certifiably went missing in wake of Cooper & Annie going to the lodge.
I don't expect Annie to play a role in the season honestly, but if FWWM is supposed to be important (and possibly the Missing Pieces as well) the ring is something connected to Hawk's heritage that went missing and has to do directly with Dale's imprisonment in the lodge and disappearance. just seems most logical to me. (not that I ever hold out for logic in Twin Peaks.)

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I don't expect Annie to play a role in the season honestly, but if FWWM is supposed to be important (and possibly the Missing Pieces as well) the ring is something connected to Hawk's heritage that went missing and has to do directly with Dale's imprisonment in the lodge and disappearance. just seems most logical to me. (not that I ever hold out for logic in Twin Peaks.)

Sadly, I think it is confirmed that Heather Graham is not in this season, which is crazy to me. Annie was Coop's main love interest and the driving force of the season 2 finale. It's nuts that, at most, she will get a namedrop with no actual reunion.

 

[Flipyap]

I'm not sure how it'd move the story forward, but I'm also not sure how finding the key (what would they find int he room and how would it lead to Coop?) or pages from Laura's diary (what more info could there be there? the note from Annie?) would either.

Opening the room isn't the issue - the key could be tracked back to Vegas, where FBI could start a proper search for Cooper.
Laura's diary contained the message from Annie - "My name is Annie, and I've been with Laura and Dale. The good Dale is in the Lodge, and he can't leave. Write it in your diary."

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Opening the room isn't the issue - the key could be tracked back to Vegas, where FBI could start a proper search for Cooper.
Laura's diary contained the message from Annie - "My name is Annie, and I've been with Laura and Dale. The good Dale is in the Lodge, and he can't leave. Write it in your diary."

That's exactly how I imagine the trail to real Coop begins. FBI heads there, learns about Mr. Jackpots

Spoiler

Heeeelllllooooooooooooo

and finds him.

 

[Blader]

I'd be surprised if the doppelganger hasn't already killed Annie.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I'd be surprised if the doppelganger hasn't already killed Annie.

That's probably true... and makes me infinitely depressed.

 

[Chitown B]

The "Cow jumped over the moon" is a code phrase in my opinion, so it could mean literally anything. The box imho self destructs by imploding, rather than turning into something else. Again, just my take.

So maybe covering his tracks somehow. Like they trace the call to a destroyed box in Buenos Aires and can't tell what it did.

I assume it just means that the swap worked.