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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again

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Reckoner

Member
We cant't expect after so many years to have the same atmosphere and soap opera vibe - which is probably what people are missing the most and what makes the lack of music more significant. This feels like a Lynch feature in its entirety either we like it or not.

I came to terms with it and I'm fine with them not trying to emulate the past. That could mean disaster.
 

EdmondD

Member
Anyone got an idea of what the bigger picture regarding electricity could be? From the poles in this episode (which reminded me of FWWM) to Coop going through some sort of outlet in the space basement, it seems to be a recurring thing that I haven't been able to make much sense of yet.

This seems to be a really important scene for the entire series. Here we see the shot of that same telephone pole from ep. 6. https://youtu.be/ASdmYsbW-cY
 
Even if your cut-off point is ep. 9 of S2, I think the idea that every scene in every episode was significant is being extremely generous to the old seasons.

There are so, so few uninteresting scenes in that initial run. At the very least, everything felt significant in an immediate way. The funny scenes were genuinely clever, the drama had real emotional impact, and the surrealism complimented the plot instead of totally engulfing it.

I feel like the defense for a large part of this season's shortcomings is something like the infamous "you just didn't get it," which is a problem when the best narratives (including the original Twin Peaks) work both on the surface and subtextual levels. Even the morbidly, viscerally intriguing moments and threads from first two episodes of S3 have been eclipsed by the meandering nonsense that followed.

We cant't expect after so many years to have the same atmosphere and soap opera vibe - which is probably what people are missing the most and what makes the lack of music more significant. This feels like a Lynch feature in its entirety either we like it or not.

I came to terms with it and I'm fine with them not trying to emulate the past. That could mean disaster.

But then why do it at all? If anything, "Twin Peaks as a town has changed and lost it's warmth" being a theme would have been incredibly compelling. Cooper coming to realize that the community's tight-knit, family-and-values oriented way of existence has truly died off would have been far more interesting social commentary than what we're getting now.
 

DJ Gunner

Member
There are so, so few uninteresting scenes in that initial run. At the very least, everything felt significant in an immediate way. The funny scenes were genuinely clever, the drama had real emotional impact, and the surrealism complimented the plot instead of totally engulfing it.

I feel like the defense for a large part of this season's shortcomings is something like the infamous "you just didn't get it," which is a problem when the best narratives (including the original Twin Peaks) work both on the surface and subtextual levels. Even the morbidly, viscerally intriguing moments and threads from first two episodes of S3 have been eclipsed by the meandering nonsense that followed.



But then why do it at all? If anything, "Twin Peaks as a town has changed and lost it's warmth" being a theme would have been incredibly compelling. Cooper coming to realize that the community's tight-knit, family-and-values oriented way of existence has truly died off would have been far more interesting social commentary than what we're getting now.


To some degree I have to agree with you. The one thing that struck me last night, while watching Coop draw his pictures on the case files, was that seemingly everything now is a code, a piece of a huge puzzle that is so very slowly coming together. I'm a big Lynch fan, so I knew going in I was going to have to give him a lot of latitude here, but I'm starting to feel like I'm drowning in clues and symbolism and what may or may not be a ton of noise because that's just how Lynch can be. I'll also say that, while the first four episodes registered way high on the bizarre meter (which is fine) I felt like so much happened. I've rewatched the first four and I picked up so much that I didn't realize I missed the first time. In comparison, 5 & 6 seem much more grounded, but also much slower, to the point of wondering why we are seeing 20-30 minutes of DougieCoop barely registering a pulse and the ensuing calamities that result.

I'm still 100% on board and will be there until the final episode airs, but the jarring shifts in pacing are really wreaking havoc with my enjoyment.
 

Ashby

Member
Anybody bothered that the drug being dealt in this season's drug story line is still cocaine? Like, as a nation we are in the grips of a heroin epidemic the likes of which has never been seen. Twin Peaks being in the midst of a heroin addiction crisis would be much more contemporary than yet another young guy dealing blow.
 

PizzaFace

Banned
Anybody bothered that the drug being dealt in this season's drug story line is still cocaine? Like, as a nation we are in the grips of a heroin epidemic the likes of which has never been seen. Twin Peaks being in the midst of a heroin addiction crisis would be much more contemporary than yet another young guy dealing blow.

Is it cocaine? I thought it had been mentioned it was "a Chinese designer drug"
 

robotrock

Banned
Anybody bothered that the drug being dealt in this season's drug story line is still cocaine? Like, as a nation we are in the grips of a heroin epidemic the likes of which has never been seen. Twin Peaks being in the midst of a heroin addiction crisis would be much more contemporary than yet another young guy dealing blow.

garmonbozia
 

Blader

Member
There are so, so few uninteresting scenes in that initial run. At the very least, everything felt significant in an immediate way. The funny scenes were genuinely clever, the drama had real emotional impact, and the surrealism complimented the plot instead of totally engulfing it.

I feel like the defense for a large part of this season's shortcomings is something like the infamous "you just didn't get it," which is a problem when the best narratives (including the original Twin Peaks) work both on the surface and subtextual levels. Even the morbidly, viscerally intriguing moments and threads from first two episodes of S3 have been eclipsed by the meandering nonsense that followed.

I think this "defense" is only really raised by people who aren't liking the season and need to justify their dislike by making the people who are liking it seem like huge jerks.

Thing is, anyone who likes this season doesn't get it either. Nobody can "get" this season yet because the story is unfinished, extremely dense, and very strange. Only Lynch, Frost, and MacLachlan could explain the what, how, and why of everything that's happening right now, and even then there might not be much in the way of full explanations. I absolutely love this season but couldn't even pretend to explain to you the minutiae of things happening and what they mean related to each other. I'm hoping that by the end, it'll all click together. I also know full well, given the history of both David Lynch and Twin Peaks, this is a pretty foolish thing to anticipate. But I'm enjoying the ride and the overall tone of it, and think, even in its tedious moments, it's still utterly captivating in a way that I can't totally articulate.

I can understand the complaint about the surrealism overwhelming the more grounded part of the story... I don't think it's nearly to the level of actual Lynch films (at least not yet), but also think the S2 finale and Fire Walk with Me should've been clear indicators that this season was going to tread some weird ground, particularly re: the Black Lodge and doppelgangers.

And on your first point, I do disagree about everything in that 17 or so episodes feeling significant or important. Maybe I'd have a different feeling on a rewatch, when I was more familiar with the characters and where they were ultimately going, but on my first (and only) watch of the old series, there was a ton of stuff around the Ed/Norma/Hank/Nadine soap opera or the mill subplot with the Martells and Josie that felt like distractions from what I was here for. And ultimately, those side stories weren't really significant to anything anyway, they were just side stories.
 
My first thoughts after watching episode 6 was that it was... gratuitous. The kid man... If I did drugs, I'm sure that would guilt me out. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it, I did, though some people may find it too much.

Sure there was a bit too much Dougie being Dougie in my opinion - I think we get the point now, but I guess these long shots are signature Lynch, and you know there's gonna be that sweet, sweet payoff when Coop gets back. The problem is that when they happen I just regret not seeing more of the rest of Twin Peaks.

Also, what a god damned joy to see Harry Dean Stanton back. His face at that moment, really said it all, didn't it?

I'm really excited to binge this entire season again when it comes out on blu-ray. At the moment I'm watching grainy pirate copies, I'll be stoked to see it in the way it's meant to be seen.
 

bunbun777

Member
There is coke but I'm pretty sure the main drug is the " Chinese synthetic" which seems to be fake coke that has different associations and dangers.

Which means the triad is still in twin peaks maybe?
 
I'm definitely not feeling the new season either. But it's not so much because it's not like seasons one and two; I'm a big Lynch fan. It's mainly because it's so inconsistent. One scene could be amazing and the next a dud. It's a bit hit and miss for me.

I also don't really get the "we can't judge it because it's not complete yet" defense. 6 hours of media is 6 hours to digest and critique and get an overall feel for.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Couple of neat takes:

Vox: Twin Peaks episode 6: Watching this season is like endlessly changing channels on your TV

What TV does too often is numb this sort of crime, numb this sort of pain. It turns death into just another plot point, and if you get bored, you switch the channel to something else. But by replicating watching TV with the remote in hand, flipping over to something new when you start to zone out, Lynch forces you to pay attention to all of this. When horrible death can arrive at any time, in any storyline, it ceases to feel like a plot point and more like a thing that can happen out of nowhere.

AV Club: As Dale Cooper wakes up, Twin Peaks dares us to make sense of it—or not

There is sense in Lynch’s work, in his collaboration with Mark Frost, in Twin Peaks, in “The Return, Part 6.” But that sense is overwhelmingly emotional rather than rational, a sensibility and a sensation rather than a solution. Information is everywhere, but it’s conveyed by feeling as much as—often more than—by fact. Why does a red square appearing on an executive’s computer screen mean it’s time to retrieve an envelope from his safe, carefully shielding it from fingerprints? Why does the single black dot on that envelope look so ominous?
 

gun_haver

Member
I'm definitely not feeling the new season either. But it's not so much because it's not like seasons one and two; I'm a big Lynch fan. It's mainly because it's so inconsistent. One scene could be amazing and the next a dud. It's a bit hit and miss for me.

I also don't really get the "we can't judge it because it's not complete yet" defense. 6 hours of media is 6 hours to digest and critique and get an overall feel for.

I think you can judge whether you like it or not from these 6 eps, sure, but I think that is more of a binary distinction. After 6 eps of this show, you're either in or you're not. If you're in, you might have reservations about where it is headed, or whether it is headed anywhere - that's where the 'hard to judge' thing comes in, because this is clearly 1 story with a huge amount of complexity in terms of plot, character relationships, locations and abstract symbolism.

Basically what it is for me is, depending on the remaining 12 episodes collectively, I'm either going to think this series is good or great. I've already decided I like it, just not how much yet. Sometimes things go off the rails later on, and sometimes they get even better.

There have been bits and pieces I haven't loved as well, but there's a lot of stuff I have. So much of entertainment gives me nothing I love, so I'll take inconsistent greatness over consistent mediocrity.

I don't think anybody is really saying 'if you hate this so far, you're wrong because you haven't seen every episode'. There are loads of shows I've checked out of after one or two episodes because I could tell, regardless of how 'good' it got on its own curve, it wasn't my thing. Twin Peaks is my thing, so I'm in, but it feels like a 400 page book we're 100 pages into more than 6 discrete episodes of TV.
 

ibrahima

Banned
There are bits of the return that I'll want to rewatch and bits that I'll very likely skip or gloss over on a second or third viewing, regardless of their overall relevance to the plot. I'm still invested, but yes I'd very gladly take an increase of the stakes or something wholly abstract compared to the rather plodding pace of the last two episodes.

Bring back the woman with no eyes.
 
Any complaints I have of the new season are regarding the delivery of the episodes, rather than the content itself

One episode a week is not enough when the story is this indirect. I want to binge this whole thing in like 2 days lol

I think it might be working against the show for people, when you wait a week and then you're like "ok....that's it???"

I'm enjoying every bit of it but I just want to watch it all already
 
Any complaints I have of the new season are regarding the delivery of the episodes, rather than the content itself

One episode a week is not enough when the story is this indirect. I want to binge this whole thing in like 2 days lol

I think it might be working against the show for people, when you wait a week and then you're like "ok....that's it???"

I'm enjoying every bit of it but I just want to watch it all already

Especially with this week picking up literal seconds after last weeks episode, as if 5 & 6 were meant to be a two parter like the last 4 episodes
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Any complaints I have of the new season are regarding the delivery of the episodes, rather than the content itself

One episode a week is not enough when the story is this indirect. I want to binge this whole thing in like 2 days lol

I think it might be working against the show for people, when you wait a week and then you're like "ok....that's it???"

I'm enjoying every bit of it but I just want to watch it all already

I actually love the weekly delivery. The anticipation is great and after each airing I'm always left wanting more. Makes me think about each episode in isolation as well, which is nice because it's so dense and weird.
 

Audioboxer

Member
I enjoyed this episode. Glad to see Cooper coming back bit by bit. I wonder what he uncovered in all the insurance documents lol.
 
Z

ZombieFred

Unconfirmed Member
What I love about Dougie is how emotionally powerful he is and showing the best side of humanity and strangers with empathy and willingness of concern.

Seriously. I am not joking with this. David Lynch has brought out that feeling of concern and sadness for how vulnerable Coop is. I like how how him and the actor really do an outstanding job with this.
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I'm sticking with the show in anticipation of old coop returning and returning to twin peaks. And while there are some interesting scenes so far, the story is so plodding I don't think I would ever get through a second viewing of it.
 
There are so, so few uninteresting scenes in that initial run. At the very least, everything felt significant in an immediate way. The funny scenes were genuinely clever, the drama had real emotional impact, and the surrealism complimented the plot instead of totally engulfing it.

I don't really agree with this. I found plenty of dull and just plain uninteresting scenes in the original series. I was all about Cooper, the central mystery, and high strangeness. I don't care about normal melodrama.

It just depends on what you are looking for from Twin Peaks.
 

Linkin112

Member
So was "The cow jumped over the moon" from last episode a trigger to say that one lady and her assassins failed to kill Real Cooper, so that another assassin could be hired?
 

jerry113

Banned
Any complaints I have of the new season are regarding the delivery of the episodes, rather than the content itself

One episode a week is not enough when the story is this indirect. I want to binge this whole thing in like 2 days lol

I think it might be working against the show for people, when you wait a week and then you're like "ok....that's it???"

I'm enjoying every bit of it but I just want to watch it all already

I wish it were 2 episodes per week. Basically a 2 hour Lynch movie per week. Would be better.
 

Katori

Member
People complaining about this season, I really don't understand that. It is weird, but it's not incomprehensible. You have to understand that ideas come to Lynch like paintings, each bubbling up in his subconscious mind--sometimes they are able to be connected in a narrative by writing, sometimes not. Sometimes they are simply symbols interacting with symbols. You have to look deeper than the storyline, the narrative.

If you look at it on that level, it makes perfect sense. I've watched each episode at least 2 times (and most of them 3) because the way that the images flow together and the "piece" it displays so dense that it demands further review and conscious thought.

I was thrown off at first too (especially because I'm watching S2 right now with my girlfriend, what a difference), but on my second watch of the first 2 episodes I began to realize what exactly was happening, and my mind stopped struggling to connect everything to the plot and just started enjoying the ride, the art of it.

Just a suggestion to anyone who "doesn't get it."
 

Flipyap

Member
I'm sticking with the show in anticipation of old coop returning and returning to twin peaks. And while there are some interesting scenes so far, the story is so plodding I don't think I would ever get through a second viewing of it.
Heh, I'm the exact opposite. The pacing might be my favorite aspect of the new show and, for me, it's what makes it infinitely more rewatchable than the original's non-Lynch episodes.
I just love how the new show's "plodding" pace allows you to fully sink into its atmosphere. Personally, I find that much more enjoyable than a rapid-fire stream of often questionable subplots.

Never would have guessed that The Missing Pieces would turn out to be a preview of the pace and tone Twin Peaks was going to take in 2017. It really hit me during part 5's RR2GO scene - it felt so much like a Missing Piece, it's kinda bonkers.
 
I think that the saddest possibility for Twin Peaks S3 is that people come to the same conclusion they did looking back on S2: That the show should have died when Leland did. Nothing after that had any impact. The Lodge is a mess, and the supernatural elements were only interesting when they existed on the periphery of a strong main storyline that was largely grounded in reality. S3 has no grounding, and I have a feeling that more and more people are going to drop off as this continues.

Why do care whether other people like it or not? Or if they stop watching? What does that have to with if the thing appeals to you or not?

I'm enjoying the show a great deal. I laughed as much as I was disturbed by last night's part. It's really hitting all the notes perfectly. Whether 50 people watch this show or 50 million doesn't matter. It's right up my alley. And really, above all else, I'm just happy Lynch/Frost are making the show they want to make. The older I get the less concerned I am about if a piece of art 100% appeals to me. I'd just rather an artist makes what they want. I want to see their view of the world. If that turns me off, of well there's plenty of other art out there. I'm happy they got to express themselves and allowed an audience to see their point of view. I respect the hell out of that.

And Twin Peaks is just as much about mood to me as it is plot mechanics. Maybe even more mood than plot. If I wanted plot, I could go read a wiki. I love the shots of wind blowing through the trees. When Carl Rodd was just staring up at them, that told me more about him than all his previous dialogue.

And mood is directly related to the pacing. I totally dig how much time is spent just sitting with characters. I loved watching Jacoby paint those shovels on my rewatch. The fact that he's spending all that time, and rigging up this extravagant system, for such a ridiculous product makes it all the better. I really appreciate every second we get to spend with these characters.

I look forward to each part more than the last.
 

bounchfx

Member
^ well said

Heh, I'm the exact opposite. The pacing might be my favorite aspect of the new show and, for me, it's what makes it infinitely more rewatchable than the original's non-Lynch episodes.
I just love how the new show's "plodding" pace allows you to fully sink into its atmosphere. Personally, I find that much more enjoyable than a rapid-fire stream of often questionable subplots.

Never would have guessed that The Missing Pieces would turn out to be a preview of the pace and tone Twin Peaks was going to take in 2017. It really hit me during part 5's RR2GO scene - it felt so much like a Missing Piece, it's kinda bonkers.

same. I love the pacing. I've actually been rewatching every episode the day after because it's so enjoyable. This show pulls me into whats happening more than any I can remember offhand. Just oozes ambiance and feeling.
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
And Twin Peaks is just as much about mood to me as it is plot mechanics. Maybe even more mood than plot. If I wanted plot, I could go read a wiki. I love the shots of wind blowing through the trees. When Carl Rodd was just staring up at them, that told me more about him than all his previous dialogue.

And mood is directly related to the pacing. I totally dig how much time is spent just sitting with characters. I loved watching Jacoby paint those shovels on my rewatch. The fact that he's spending all that time, and rigging up this extravagant system, for such a ridiculous product makes it all the better. I really appreciate every second we get to spend with these characters.

I look forward to each part more than the last.

This right there.
 

Dalek

Member
I watched all six episodes in the past two days. This is just pure joy. I'm so thrilled this show is back, guys-and that I'm finally caught up and can participate in the conversation.

Does anyone know what happened with Dougie's boss reading the papers? What was it he picked up on? Obviously the Lodge was directing Dougie to pencil certain things in that would clue the boss in, but was there anything that we the audience were supposed to pick up on?

Also the hit and run scene was just incredibly upsetting.
 

AoM

Member
I watched all six episodes in the past two days. This is just pure joy. I'm so thrilled this show is back, guys-and that I'm finally caught up and can participate in the conversation.

Does anyone know what happened with Dougie's boss reading the papers? What was it he picked up on? Obviously the Lodge was directing Dougie to pencil certain things in that would clue the boss in, but was there anything that we the audience were supposed to pick up on?

Also the hit and run scene was just incredibly upsetting.

My first thought was proof that Sizemore's character was indeed lying about that arson case.
 

big ander

Member
I watched all six episodes in the past two days. This is just pure joy. I'm so thrilled this show is back, guys-and that I'm finally caught up and can participate in the conversation.

Does anyone know what happened with Dougie's boss reading the papers? What was it he picked up on? Obviously the Lodge was directing Dougie to pencil certain things in that would clue the boss in, but was there anything that we the audience were supposed to pick up on?

Also the hit and run scene was just incredibly upsetting.

I think the only extra little piece you can pick up on is that a lot of Dale-as-Dougie's markings are about Anthony Sinclair, that agent he'd called a liar in the meeting.
 
Brilliant episode. I think there is definitely a countdown going on. The number 9 was highlighted clearly, then 6 on the pole. I'm sure in episode 3, in the space dungeon, the metal door had a number on it, maybe 13?
 
This was a bunch of scenes together. I think. Borderline incomprehensible.

What the fuck was Hobbit Vin Diesel doing though?

Dougie found something in the case files of interest to his boss
Janey-E paid off their debt from the casino winnings
Spike murdered one of his targets
Albert went to Diane to ask for her help
Richard Horne is in over his head with drugs and killed a boy

Everything was pretty straight forward this episode
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Dougie found something in the case files of interest to his boss
Janey-E paid off their debt from the casino winnings
Spike murdered one of his targets
Albert went to Diane to ask for her help
Richard Horne is in over his head with drugs and killed a boy

Everything was pretty straight forward this episode

Nah man, why we dont got the diner and Coop waxing poetic about pie? Now that I could follow
 
First episode that I genuinely didn't enjoy. I think it has to do with the fact that I rewatched the first two seasons last week, and the pacing difference really struck me.

Every scene in Twin Peaks S1 and S2 (up until the murder was solved) felt significant, engaging and entertaining. This is because, even in non-plot relevant moments, the show had built up an immensely charismatic cast that was easy to become invested in, something S3 is largely devoid of.

S3's approach to death really rubs me the wrong way as well. For the vast majority of the original show, only a handful of characters died (Laura, Bernard, Jaques, Maddie, Hank, Leland), and every one of those apart from Bernard felt extremely significant and had real impact on both the overarching plot and the emotional states of the characters. In six episodes of The Return, we have a huge and almost totally insignificant body count. Could it pay off eventually? Sure, but the original show knew how to make every big event significant both in the moment and in the long term.

I think that the saddest possibility for Twin Peaks S3 is that people come to the same conclusion they did looking back on S2: That the show should have died when Leland did. Nothing after that had any impact. The Lodge is a mess, and the supernatural elements were only interesting when they existed on the periphery of a strong main storyline that was largely grounded in reality. S3 has no grounding, and I have a feeling that more and more people are going to drop off as this continues.

I don't mean to add to the dogpile, but I just want to sneak in my controversial opinion that the network meddling was the best thing that ever happened to Twin Peaks. Revealing the culprit, ending the show instead of letting it drag on, unintentionally prodding Lynch into throwing all of the subplots into upheaval for the finale as a desperate bid to get renewed, the stark contrast between the fucking awful post-Leland vapid wackiness and the ruthlessly bleak finale - the Twin Peaks that I love only exists because of the struggle between Lynch and ABC.

Lynch doing little people wrong.

m
"Ike the Spike". Lynch is still pissed at Michael J. Anderson, apparently.
 

big ander

Member
Lynch doing little people wrong.

I'm always curious about how actual little people and all differently abled people feel about Lynch's stuff. Because on one hand the handling of The Spike and The Arm seems exploitative, but on the other Michael J. Anderson speaks glowingly about working on the show and Lynch's sympathy overall definitely lies with outsiders (I mean, Elephant Man is all about the divine humanity of a deformed man).
 
I'm always curious about how actual little people and all differently abled people feel about Lynch's stuff. Because on one hand the handling of The Spike and The Arm seems exploitative, but on the other Michael J. Anderson speaks glowingly about working on the show and Lynch's sympathy overall definitely lies with outsiders (I mean, Elephant Man is all about the divine humanity of a deformed man).

I have to imagine it didn't help back then against typecasting them as mischievous or supernatural creatures. I've been loving the show, but this new character is a bit disappointing to see. I mean, I hope he's a developed character instead of a dude who's just there to freak people out. I just get reminded of Peter Dinklage's character's rant in Living in Oblivion, which was unmistakably talking about Twin Peaks.

Have you ever had a dream with a dwarf in it? Do you know anyone who's had a dream with a dwarf in it? No! I don't even have dreams with dwarves in them. The only place I've seen dwarves in dreams is in stupid movies like this! "Oh make it weird, put a dwarf in it!". Everyone will go "Woah, this must be a fuckin' dream, there's a fuckin' dwarf in it!". Well I'm sick of it! You can take this dream sequence and stick it up your ass!

I guess it's not a dream sequence though.
 

ActWan

Member
The hit and run scene was too hard for me. I don't even know what it was. It was too unexpected and just sat with me till the end of the episode.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure Hawk found the pages of Laura Palmer's diary where she wrote "The good Dale is in the lodge"
 
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