Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again

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Joqu said:
I will say I'm somewhat wishing they had written some sort of episode structure into this thing now, instead of Lynch shooting the script as one long movie and figuring things out in editing. It has especially made for some rather disappointing endings, this last episode included. Going with that Double R Diner scene after a pretty fast paced episode, sweeping aside, felt really awkward to me.
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Lynch knows what he's doing.

Any issues the show has (pacing included) are all very deliberate.

It will all come together in the end.

Maybe Lynch just isn't for you.

Am I doing it right?
 
Erudite said:
Another goodie from the Idle Thumbs forum
v3WXLKx_d.jpg


(Credit to thenexus6 from there)
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Lmao my girlfriend said he looks just like a Gta character when the picture came up. Also Kung fu dougie got me hyped but now I'm worried hes not going to return back to normal until the very end. I can see the promo of him driving just dougie being directed by the tree.
 
Also I can't believe that there was so much progress made in one episode, when they visited Diane and asked to go see mr c I didn't expect to see resolution for 2 episodes but they followed and then some, business is picking up!
 
giancarlo123x said:
Also I can't believe that there was so much progress made in one episode, when they visited Diane and asked to go see mr c I didn't expect to see resolution for 2 episodes but they followed and then some, business is picking up!
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You'll get two episodes now showing Diane traveling back to her house
 
I don't get why people hate any Twin Peaks characters. You can make a case that James overstayed his welcome when he literally had nothing else to do in the story so they started a new one that focused exclusively on him, but to me, that was James at his most interesting.

But my real beef is with people who hate Josie. Josie is awesome - why do people hate Josie?
 
Joqu said:
I will say I'm somewhat wishing they had written some sort of episode structure into this thing now, instead of Lynch shooting the script as one long movie and figuring things out in editing. It has especially made for some rather disappointing endings, this last episode included. Going with that Double R Diner scene after a pretty fast paced episode, sweeping aside, felt really awkward to me.
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I thought the endings were remarkably well-paced, considering how the show was assembled.

Part 1 ends with the discovery of the weird meaty mess in Bill's car.
Part 2 ends with the sweetest Roadhouse scene while Cooper is falling through space and glass boxes.
Part 3 ends with Gordon & Co. setting out to meet Doop.
Part 4's ending doesn't get any bluer.
Part 5's fake-out ending introduced us to Little Dicky, followed by a phone call to Mr. Strawberry and an imploding box in ARGENTINA, followed by a heartbreaking scene of DUGE doing nothing at all.
Part 6 ends with Hawk finding the pages, followed by some low-key Truman family drama and Chad being a Chad - honestly, I'd say that the latter is the only final scene that doesn't feel like a scripted stinger at the end of an episode.
 
Miles Quaritch said:
An okay episode, the assassination attempt was hilarious though with Coop going into ninja mode and Naomi Watts trying to help.

Still not happy Coop hasn't 'woken up' yet, wish they'd hurry the hell up.
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I went from loving the Dougie stuff to merely enjoying it. I get that they want Coop's full on return to be a big deal but the Dougie plot is really starting to drag. When Coop disarmed the assassin it made me falsely believe that Coop had returned and I was bummed when that wound up not being the case.
 
Miles Quaritch said:
An okay episode, the assassination attempt was hilarious though with Coop going into ninja mode and Naomi Watts trying to help.

Still not happy Coop hasn't 'woken up' yet, wish they'd hurry the hell up.
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Given the police are going to fingerprint the gun, they're going to discover Good Coops prints on it as well as Ike's, and undoubtedly that will flag up as Dale Coopers on the FBI database. Which means we should have a Good Coup reunited with Gordon fairly soon. That may well prove to be the catalyst for Good Coop to fuly wake up, given so far he hasn't met a familiar face since leaving the Black Lodge.

Also, can anyone explain the fingerprint thing to me? Was it that one of his fingerprints was backwards or something?
 
I'm loving Dougie and Janey-E so much that I don't care how long it takes for Cooper to "come back".

Having said that, based on the pacing so far, I think we'll see the "awakening" back into Cooper in 3 more episodes.

So.....Episode 10 he'll "return". You heard it here first!
 
Flipyap said:
I thought the endings were remarkably well-paced, considering how the show was assembled.

Part 1 ends with the discovery of the weird meaty mess in Bill's car.
Part 2 ends with the sweetest Roadhouse scene while Cooper is falling through space and glass boxes.
Part 3 ends with Gordon & Co. setting out to meet Doop.
Part 4's ending doesn't get any bluer.
Part 5's fake-out ending introduced us to Little Dicky, followed by a phone call to Mr. Strawberry and an imploding box in ARGENTINA, followed by a heartbreaking scene of DUGE doing nothing at all.
Part 6 ends with Hawk finding the pages, followed by some low-key Truman family drama and Chad being a Chad - honestly, I'd say that the latter is the only final scene that doesn't feel like a scripted stinger at the end of an episode.
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Ah, I like a lot of the other stuff you listed too, but I wasn't necessarily talking about the pacing towards the ending of the episode here, but the actual scenes they end on. If there's a roadhouse song that starts playing before the credits roll that's the ending scene, and if it's a pure song without any character bits in it I do find them disappointing because I keep expecting a roadhouse ending like episode 2's. The ones without any story in them feel a little cheap because they could be used at the end of any episode.

Though 1, 2 and 5 had good ending scenes for sure.
 
Kadayi said:
Given the police are going to fingerprint the gun, they're going to discover Good Coops prints on it as well as Ike's, and undoubtedly that will flag up as Dale Coopers on the FBI database. Which means we should have a Good Coup reunited with Gordon fairly soon. That may well prove to be the catalyst for Good Coop to fuly wake up, given so far he hasn't met a familiar face since leaving the Black Lodge.

Also, can anyone explain the fingerprint thing to me? Was it that one of his fingerprints was backwards or something?
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Yes, his left *ring* finger's print is reversed (and we all know how important rings are), and Gordon comments how that finger represents the "spiritual mound". So they're figuring out that Evil Coop is Good Coop's spiritual opposite.
 
KO Traveling Hobo said:
I love Lynch's work as a director from the little I've seen - I've said many times that the S2 finale is literally one of the best things I've ever watched - but I really don't want 18 episodes of Lynch naval-gazing. I would rather have a powerful well-written experience than just one director's vanity project.

The ideal season 3 of Twin Peaks, to me, is a balanced cadence between Lynchian ponderousness and shit getting real. I want the Green Onions floor-sweeping scenes and the shovel-painting scenes, but I also want Hawksplaining and multi-scene bursts of urgency. I want it all
except the soap opera, the shitty special effects, and the insultingly manipulative and poorly written/directed moments like the dead kid.

This episode did a lot to flesh out and balance the Return, and it gives me hope that we'll be able to have our cake and eat it too.
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My problem with this kind of thinking is you are telling an artist how to make their art (and acting like we can all agree on what "well-written" means). You had no say in how any Twin Peaks was told before, but you happened to like it. That's an accident, it's not because Lynch/Frost catered to you.

It stands to reason that 25 years later their creative impulses have gone in a direction you and many Twin Peaks fans aren't interested in. That's perfectly fine. It's a good thing actually. Your tastes have developed to the point that you can create art of your own. The story you are looking can be found elsewhere. You might even have to create yourself. And that's great.

That's not to say you can't criticize the show or Lynch/Frost, but when you (and I mean this generally, not you specifically) come at it from the idea that it has to be told a certain way then you aren't giving the show a chance. Criticize this new series for what it is, not what it isn't.

I think pacing issues are legit concerns, but saying get on with the plot is not fair. It's hard as hell to tell what's important to telling the story right now. I think most of us thought the reversed fingerprint was a production error, turns out actually plot relevant.

The deliberate pacing of the first 6 parts, and the structure of each one, paid off in spades in part 7. This one felt like it was moving at breakneck speed. And when it slowed down with the Roadhouse sweeper, I had no idea what was going on. It actually might have been the biggest WTF moment for me. I was used to the show ending with a music number there. But that was like a bucket of cold water. It reminded me that plot isn't all there is. That Twin Peaks is about hanging out with people and places some times. And that you should never take for granted that you know what will happen next.

I'm withholding judgement on a lot of things right now. Tamara Preston, the treatment of woman in general, and especially this whole Cooper as Dougie plot. I'm just trying to enjoy each moment for what is, and hoping it all comes together in the end. It might not though, and I'm preparing myself for that.
 
I wanted the sweeping to be the end credit scene, then episode 8 to start with a litte sweeping before Jean Michel answers the phone.

As we're used to being (mostly) played out by the acts at the Roadhouse, I think that would have worked and been quite funny. "Nobody playing tonight but we'll do the credits here anyway".

Certainly would have been better than the oddly edited RR scene.
 
VistraNorrez said:
My problem with this kind of thinking is you are telling an artist how to make their art (and acting like we can all agree on what "well-written" means). You had no say in how any Twin Peaks was told before, but you happened to like it. That's an accident, it's not because Lynch/Frost catered to you.

It stands to reason that 25 years later their creative impulses have gone in a direction you and many Twin Peaks fans aren't interested in. That's perfectly fine. It's a good thing actually. Your tastes have developed to the point that you can create art of your own. The story you are looking can be found elsewhere. You might even have to create yourself. And that's great.

That's not to say you can't criticize the show or Lynch/Frost, but when you (and I mean this generally, not you specifically) come at it from the idea that it has to be told a certain way then you aren't giving the show a chance. Criticize this new series for what it is, not what it isn't.

I think pacing issues are legit concerns, but saying get on with the plot is not fair. It's hard as hell to tell what's important to telling the story right now. I think most of us thought the reversed fingerprint was a production error, turns out actually plot relevant.

The deliberate pacing of the first 6 parts, and the structure of each one, paid off in spades in part 7. This one felt like it was moving at breakneck speed. And when it slowed down with the Roadhouse sweeper, I had no idea what was going on. It actually might have been the biggest WTF moment for me. I was used to the show ending with a music number there. But that was like a bucket of cold water. It reminded me that plot isn't all there is. That Twin Peaks is about hanging out with people and places some times. And that you should never take for granted that you know what will happen next.

I'm withholding judgement on a lot of things right now. Tamara Preston, the treatment of woman in general, and especially this whole Cooper as Dougie plot. I'm just trying to enjoy each moment for what is, and hoping it all comes together in the end. It might not though, and I'm preparing myself for that.
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But like, I'm generally happy with how things are going lol I even said in that post that I liked the Roadhouse sweeping scene. I was responding to someone complaining that the episode was too Frosty and that the show isn't just Lynch doing what Lynch wants, which I disagree with, because Lynch is not the only artist involved here. Twin Peaks is, and always was, a collaborative effort between Lynch and Frost.
 
KO Traveling Hobo said:
But like, I'm generally happy with how things are going lol I even said in that post that I liked the Roadhouse sweeping scene. I was responding to someone complaining that the episode was too Frosty and that the show isn't just Lynch doing what Lynch wants, which I disagree with, because Lynch is not the only artist involved here. Twin Peaks is, and always was, a collaborative effort between Lynch and Frost.
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That's not exactly what I meant. With the exception of the Log Lady intros, everything Lynch has done on Twin Peaks has been a collaboration with Frost, Peyton or Engels, the difference here is that for the first time in his career (with the possible exception of Dune and some commercial work) it felt like he was going through the motions.
I think we'd all benefit if Frost wrote these scenes in a way that doesn't result in making Lynch-directed Twin Peaks look like an ordinary TV show.
So, what I was actually hoping for, for his next film project is that whoever he may end up collaborating with will write in a style that truly speaks to Lynch, the way his previous co-written scripts seemed to.
 
Flipyap said:
Okay, Bing clearly says "Hey! Anyone seen Billy?"
I knew I shouldn't have trusted Showtime's subtitles after they interpreted DUGE's "kahee" as "Hi."
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Not sure if people are only kidding with that "kahee/coffee" thing but if anyone is really thinking he said that I just want to say that it makes way more sense that it was supposed to play on the expectations of him saying "HOT!"
 
I've been one of the users here that has been on the fence this season, loving it and hating it at the same time.

But that last episode was excellent. Like, really good. I'll watch it again before posting my thoughts but it had a "tension under plain sight" style that for me is Lynch's finest trademark.
 
Haven't read the reactions yet but that sweeping scene made me feel like it was Lynch saying "Ok I'm done with that whole musicians performing thing, shit is going to get real"
 
The exposition delivered in this latest episode is at once extremely stilted and hokey and also extremely satisfying for my lizard brain.

Feels like the debris from the previous episodes is being swept into a pile.
 
I need to stop watching tv shows while being on my phone. I totally missed the whole Audrey Horne thing the first time lol. And who is Janey-E?
 
WriterGK said:
I need to stop watching tv shows while being on my phone. I totally missed the whole Audrey Horne thing the first time lol. And who is Janey-E?
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Janey-E is Naomi Watts' character. And yeah I turn my phone off before starting each episode. It's way too easy to miss stuff.

Sidenote, I still regularly am baffled that people thought Diane was the name of Cooper's tape recorder, and/or just was a quirky thing he did, rather than an actual person. That genuinely haunts me, in my day to day.
 
Buttonbasher said:
Sidenote, I still regularly am baffled that people thought Diane was the name of Cooper's tape recorder, and/or just was a quirky thing he did, rather than an actual person. That genuinely haunts me, in my day to day.
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The only way this would have ever made sense was if they wanted to do a twist that Coop wasn't an actual FBI agent.
 
Buttonbasher said:
Janey-E is Naomi Watts' character. And yeah I turn my phone off before starting each episode. It's way too easy to miss stuff.

Sidenote, I still regularly am baffled that people thought Diane was the name of Cooper's tape recorder, and/or just was a quirky thing he did, rather than an actual person. That genuinely haunts me, in my day to day.
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She never appeared in the original run, and Coop is a VERY eccentric guy. Many Twin Peaks-inspired movies and games have also run with the concept that Diane was entirely a figment of his imagination.

Zach in Deadly Premonition, for example.

Dimmle said:
I sort of lost parts of the Audrey update in Doc Hayward's speech. So what's up with her? I thought I heard coma?
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She was in a coma after the bank explosion. Evil Coop went to visit her in the ICU... for likely horrible reasons.
 
Vyse The Legend said:
She never appeared in the original run, and Coop is a VERY eccentric guy. Many Twin Peaks-inspired movies and games have also run with the concept that Diane was entirely a figment of his imagination.

Zach in Deadly Premonition, for example.
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Eccentric, sure. Crazy/delusional enough to make up a person in his waking state? That's more of a stretch for the character, in my opinion.
 
Buttonbasher said:
Eccentric, sure. Crazy/delusional enough to make up a person in his waking state? That's more of a stretch for the character, in my opinion.
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I don't think you need to be crazy or delusional to anthropomorphize an object. People often name their cars, for example.

Naming a tape recorder, a device you speak to regularly, might make it easier for a person to strike a more conversational tone and cadence in their recordings. It is not beyond the realm of possibility in real life, let alone on a TV show with spirits and other dimensions.
 
Vyse The Legend said:
She never appeared in the original run, and Coop is a VERY eccentric guy. Many Twin Peaks-inspired movies and games have also run with the concept that Diane was entirely a figment of his imagination.

Zach in Deadly Premonition, for example.



She was in a coma after the bank explosion. Evil Coop went to visit her in the ICU to... likely to get the ring and maybe other... things.
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Audrey didn't have the ring though. That was Annie, right?
 
Vyse The Legend said:
I don't think you need to be crazy or delusional to anthropomorphize an object. People often name their cars, for example.

Naming a tape recorder, a device you speak to regularly, might make it easier for a person to strike a more conversational tone and cadence in their recordings. It is not beyond the realm of possibility in real life, let alone on a TV show with spirits and other dimensions.
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Fair play. I just felt that his read of it always seemed like he was talking to someone on the other end, and was shocked to see people on GAF thinking it was just a Cooper-ism.

Glad to finally meet Diane in this new series, either way.
 
I hope Truman's wife's whole deal goes somewhere. It's definitely the most "but why?" inclusion. Even though she's been bequeathed with a tragic backstory, it doesn't do much for this season's so far dubious treatment of female characters.

I'm enjoying The Return but that's probably my biggest gripe, even including the extended Trials of Dougie.
 
Airola said:
Not sure if people are only kidding with that "kahee/coffee" thing but if anyone is really thinking he said that I just want to say that it makes way more sense that it was supposed to play on the expectations of him saying "HOT!"
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I mean, I hate that I have such a hang-up about this, but it was such a perfect punchline to the breakfast scene. We're all waiting for Cooper to rediscover coffee. Finally Janey-E sets it on the table.

Coop: "Coffee...?" ("That word rings a bell. What is this strange liquid?")
* Coop takes a sip, immediately spits it out because of its heat *
Coop: "KAHH - HEE !!" ("My mouth is on fire but oh my god I love this it's COFFEE!!!")

Seriously, try to say "coffee" while your mouth is open and without moving your tongue and it sounds exactly like what Coop said.
 
I think some people take what the character's think and say too much on face value sometimes. IE, Doc Hayward thought that Cooper went to the hospital to visit Audrey because she was in a coma, but he didn't know why he went there that's just what he was thinking at the time. Like I'm pretty sure he went to go get the owl ring and not visit Audrey, that much is pretty established (also for the 'raped Audrey' theories, I'm pretty sure Richard is Jerry's kid, which would explain why Jerry's car is missing in the beginning of the episode since after Richard ditched the car of the other guy he knew he probably took Jerry's car). In a similar vein, when the characters are discussing who stuffed the pages in the bathroom stall door, the pages in question talk about Leland since Laura when she wrote them and just learned his identity, so the police guess it was Leland who hid the pages so people wouldn't know it was him, but that's their deduction and maybe not what actually happened. If you begin to think about it this point doesn't make sense on a few points, but this is just the characters deductions since they think Leland would hide them to not reveal he was the one who did it. They might not expect the pages were planted there for them to find it as a clue to where Cooper is, and it very well may be the pages were planted there by something far more supernatural where Bob/Mr. C couldn't easily get them and where they may be found.

People need to realize that neither Lynch nor Frost always have the characters exposition dumps be 100% reliable, just as a person's perspective in the real world isn't 100% reliable. The characters are simply sharing what they think, but just because they think that doesn't mean that's what happened or they're correct. Since this episode was more straight-forward than most, I think too many people took more at face value than they may otherwise.
 
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