I wish Part 18 was We Got It From Here...Thank You 4 Your Service quality
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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
streetsahead123
Banned
I need help reacting to something
They are both Mrs. Tremond AND Mrs. Chalfonte depending on the movie or the show. I don't really get why they used both names when owning the house?
plagiarize
Banned
Two birds with one stone is Cooper, Cole and Briggs plan. Get rid of Bob and Judy in one swoop.
It fails. And we get the record sound and Richard and Linda.
But maybe if he can find Gordon Cole he can find his way home.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
My theory, if this is indeed the end, is that Coop sacrificed himself to trap Judy in this alternate reality, and our world is safe. It also gives "Laura" a full life that had originally been cut short.
Two birds. One stone.
Zombie James
Banned
The car Cooper was driving was way too modern to be from 92.
I can understand the frustrations with the final episode from a plot standpoint, but I have to say that from a pure film making point of view, I was very impressed with episode 18, and it is definitely one of my favorite from the season.
Once you get to Cooper meeting Diane in the forest, it's probably the most linear of episodes in terms of following one character through a specific arc which was somewhat refreshing given some of the clunkiness and odd juxtapositions a lot of the other episodes carried. The tone and pacing is probably the most consistent of any of the episodes and it almost felt like if David Lynch had directed a really good episode of The Twilight Zone. I also felt like the cinematography was a step above a lot of the other episodes as well.
I don't try to read into Lynch's work too much and come up with a bunch of theories, because Lynch sure as hell isn't going confirm or outline his own creative vision. In fact, overly expository Lynch is usually the least interesting. Just purely as a gut impression, I feel like episode 8 and 18 are the real standouts for the season and are the most likely too see appreciation as standalone works.
Once you get to Cooper meeting Diane in the forest, it's probably the most linear of episodes in terms of following one character through a specific arc which was somewhat refreshing given some of the clunkiness and odd juxtapositions a lot of the other episodes carried. The tone and pacing is probably the most consistent of any of the episodes and it almost felt like if David Lynch had directed a really good episode of The Twilight Zone. I also felt like the cinematography was a step above a lot of the other episodes as well.
I don't try to read into Lynch's work too much and come up with a bunch of theories, because Lynch sure as hell isn't going confirm or outline his own creative vision. In fact, overly expository Lynch is usually the least interesting. Just purely as a gut impression, I feel like episode 8 and 18 are the real standouts for the season and are the most likely too see appreciation as standalone works.
Finale Fireworker
Member
The first two seasons were a fundamentally different show. It was a character-driven situational drama. It was about the town of Twin Peaks itself. Sideplots and extra characters formed a patchwork that collectively made up the drama of the show in a single cohesive package.
The Return is not about the town of Twin Peaks or the characters that live there. It is not a character-driven story. Much of what is depicted in The Return could be removed and have no bearing whatsoever on the central mystery because they're in no way related to the plot.
One big problem with The Return is that the plot moves forward without the direct input of the characters. Even the characters most aware of the mystery, Gordon, Albert, and Tammy, don't actually provide any input to the plot that affects the way it unfolds. Most of the time, the viewer even has more information than the FBI, so they don't even make for meaningful exposition.
Most characters in the show are superfluous because nothing makes their presence of involvement meaningful. Whereas these characters and how they live, love, and hurt were the entire "point" of the original show, they are expressly NOT "the point" of The Return.
GurgleBot20
Member
I happened to watch FWWM earlier today. The film has Laura screaming as she looks past James, which this finale suggests she saw Cooper, but she dies in that film so....
why are you guys clicking on anything that could pertain to a spoiler on the last weekend of TP? wow
Yeah I really loved the atmosphere. I said it earlier, but I wasn't expecting such a sense of hopelessness.
Believe me, I was and that impulse actually surprised me.
Yeah, I probably would suffer through it even if the remaining hour and a half was this Punch-Out match between a gimmick character and stock footage of Frank Silva in a floating orb, but damn if that wasn't the most disappointing way they could have handled such an important character. It was so tastelessly executed, the very idea was so dumb, I couldn't believe my eyes. For that moment, I was profoundly disappointed in Lynch.
I just think it would be incredibly damaging to everything that came before it (I mean, geez, it's Bob we're talking about here) if the scene didn't conclude in a way that made it hard to accept as something that took place on the same plane of existence as old Twin Peaks.
Episode XVII: Attack of the Tulpas.
plagiarize
Banned
I am talking about how I feel right now. Not what year it is in part 18.
How would someone hold him accountable, just to know?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
This spoiler came out ages ago, during actual filming.
Vyse The Legend
Member
That photo leaked before the season aired.
Expendable.
Member
That leak was from October 2015. I saw but since forgot it and then it clicked after watching.
I want to know about
Jacoby and his golden shovels, the humming in Ben's office, the missing Billy, the sick people, the shit going on at The Fat Trout and Harry Dean Stanton's weird shit, Audrey's white room, Agent Desmond, what was happening with the box in NY, what was up with episode 8, what is going on with Sarah Palmer, how things ended up going for Shelly and her daughter, etc.
Why did Freddie need to even be in the show? They could have given James the green garden glove story, it would have given his character so much more importance overall.
I just mean calling him out for fuckery instead of giving him a pass.
Jacoby and his golden shovels, the humming in Ben's office, the missing Billy, the sick people, the shit going on at The Fat Trout and Harry Dean Stanton's weird shit, Audrey's white room, Agent Desmond, what was happening with the box in NY, what was up with episode 8, what is going on with Sarah Palmer, how things ended up going for Shelly and her daughter, etc.
Why did Freddie need to even be in the show? They could have given James the green garden glove story, it would have given his character so much more importance overall.
I just mean calling him out for fuckery instead of giving him a pass.
benicillin
Banned
Everything about 18 filled me with dread. I was having heart palpitations when it was implied that car was following Coop and Laura.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Also here's some interesting trivia that may or may not be a meta narrative on it being modern day in that particular timeline: the lady that opens the door actually lives there irl. Granted they prob offered it to her as perhaps a cherry on top for letting them film there but I find it interesting they chose the actual owner of the home.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
I really liked when Cooper woke up he walked out of a completely different motel than the one he went in. Exactly like some dreams I've had
what is there left to know about jacoby?
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Well.. if you're going there.... when they said "Find Laura", he met Laura Dern immediately after
Yeah me too. I love not knowing. I also hate it. It's the type of thing that'll keep me up at night wondering about. What could she have said to him to elicit such a reaction...
It's exceptionally creepy.
It's so simple and effective.
Please Lynch.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Lynch probably just liked her.
plagiarize
Banned
For anyone wondering, that isn't her real name though. Also, Twedes is still the RR but doesn't have RR to go on the side. So it isn't meant to be this reality.
Ah, okay. People are free to do that, definitely. I'm sure there will be quite a few that attack him over it in some way or another.
I've had a rollercoaster of a time with this season. Some parts I loved, some I thought were a waste. Part 17 was fantastic, and then... Part 18, I honestly don't know how to feel about it. It felt like an experiment more than an ending, so part of me wonders if it was more of a backdoor into a whole new story. I didn't end up hating it, more that I experienced something and my brain is slowly forming it into thoughts.
But until then, it's just another baffling Twin Peaks ending, haha.
afternoon delight
Member
+ The character of Dale Cooper. Without Coop, the supporting cast is lacking its best unifying point beside Laura Palmer, who's tragedy is equally compelling.
Anyways, it was interesting at least. And the sequence of Coop leaving the lodge was pretty damn great. All downhill from there, though episode 8 was pretty cool.
It's nearly 4am so I'm too tired to write a lot but... hmmmm. I didn't like this season nor did I hate it, it's a weird kind of disappointment that I haven't really felt before.
I think, after a little bit of thinking, my main problem with the show was that it lost almost all of the human element both figuratively and literally that the prior seasons had A key example of this is One Punch Brit whose entire arc is told to us in a singular scene; when he defeats BOB I felt nothing as I didn't know the guy nor did he have any real relation to the story as a whole. He was just a plot device with some British stereotypes thrown on top, he wasn't a "human." That can go for many, many characters in this season both old and new; some were good, but most were wasted on one-note scenes where nothing is learnt and nothing is developed. I couldn't care less about theories or hidden meanings (not to be confused with metaphor/allegory), nor do I care for an 18 hour story built entirely on atmosphere, I need characters, character interactions and a meaningful, character-driven plot to get me invested. Season 1 and the majority of 2 had that, Season 3, for the most part, did not.
I think, after a little bit of thinking, my main problem with the show was that it lost almost all of the human element both figuratively and literally that the prior seasons had A key example of this is One Punch Brit whose entire arc is told to us in a singular scene; when he defeats BOB I felt nothing as I didn't know the guy nor did he have any real relation to the story as a whole. He was just a plot device with some British stereotypes thrown on top, he wasn't a "human." That can go for many, many characters in this season both old and new; some were good, but most were wasted on one-note scenes where nothing is learnt and nothing is developed. I couldn't care less about theories or hidden meanings (not to be confused with metaphor/allegory), nor do I care for an 18 hour story built entirely on atmosphere, I need characters, character interactions and a meaningful, character-driven plot to get me invested. Season 1 and the majority of 2 had that, Season 3, for the most part, did not.
Eaten By A Grue
Member
I feel the same exact way. I told everyone after this that I legit felt shook. Everything about that ending felt ominous as hell, I felt so uncomfortable. I felt the exact same way with the ending of Fire Walk With Me.
The book also changed Norma's last name but the show has Annie's being the same, which means either the book doesn't matter at all despite the vague hints about the lore (and stuff like the RR having a bakery?), or she's... just not Norma's sister, I guess?
The book is definitely either a lot of retcons (note that I'm not comfortable saying anything in the show is a retcon beyond maybe the stuff with Cooper and Blue Rose, because it's explicitly time/dreams/whatever being changed, and even then it might just be part of this) or an alternate reality. There are numerous intentional changes beyond Norma's last name, like Norma's mother being dead before the show, Ben's Civil War stuff playing out differently, Audrey being at the bank for the opposite reason, Nadine and Ed only getting married a couple of years before season 1 (with the reason Norma and Hank got together being Ed joining the military and Hank stealing his letters to her), etc. A lot of these could be "reclaiming" season 2, though? Particularly as Nadine and Ed getting together later would theoretically eliminate the entire amnesia plotline.
I can't agree with this sentiment at all. Some of the scenes with old characters/the next generation in the town were great. Not everything had to inform the main plot. Sometimes things can be enjoyable in themselves, like Jacoby's radio show or Ed and Norma finally getting together. Rather, I feel like the scenes about life moving in the town were "important" if only for that reason.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Oh I didn't mean strictly "our timeline" was supposed to be represented in the final scene, it was probably a case of Lynch liking her as someone said...she certainly had a presence to her.
PepperedHam
Member
Put me in the camp that overall didn't really like the season. Though I'm glad it exists as it's something very many did enjoy and for them to get that from Lynch and Twin Peaks again is a success my book.
I fully understand Lynch's style and his style alone has never been the sole reason I liked Twin Peaks.
Finale Fireworker summed it up in his post earlier in this thread about the first two seasons being a fundamentally different show and that fundamentally different show is the Twin Peaks I really enjoyed. There were glimpses of that in The Return and I appreciated them and as a whole I appreciate what we got I just didn't enjoy it as much as I had hoped to. I fell in love with the town of Twin Peaks and with its characters and how their every day drama tied into the subtle fantastical side of its mystery. For me The Return kind of clonked me over the head with that side of things a bit too much. For me it isn't about answers like some others who were disappointed, as for any we got in the first two seasons, there were always tons of unanswered questions about The Lodge and that I was always okay with. Though in The Return instead of the supernatural elements being subtly tied into the background, we got them front and center and I am not sure how I feel about it as a whole.
Even though I wasn't as into it I could never just stop watching because of that. It was a show that was unpredictable right up to the very end and for that reason alone I could not stop watching it. I knew it wouldn't be the same show once we got to episode 8, and I'd still tune in every week because it was still something worth watching. You don't have to totally enjoy every aspect of a thing to make it worth watching, this was a weekly experience we won't ever get again and that's why I never cut loose from it.
So overall, I'm glad for those who have a lot to sink their teeth into, and I totally hope Lynch and Showtime are true in saying that they would like to do more because it's hard to have expectations anymore so I'll tune in for life just to see what side of Twin Peaks we'll get next. I just hope it isn't 25 years later.
I fully understand Lynch's style and his style alone has never been the sole reason I liked Twin Peaks.
Finale Fireworker summed it up in his post earlier in this thread about the first two seasons being a fundamentally different show and that fundamentally different show is the Twin Peaks I really enjoyed. There were glimpses of that in The Return and I appreciated them and as a whole I appreciate what we got I just didn't enjoy it as much as I had hoped to. I fell in love with the town of Twin Peaks and with its characters and how their every day drama tied into the subtle fantastical side of its mystery. For me The Return kind of clonked me over the head with that side of things a bit too much. For me it isn't about answers like some others who were disappointed, as for any we got in the first two seasons, there were always tons of unanswered questions about The Lodge and that I was always okay with. Though in The Return instead of the supernatural elements being subtly tied into the background, we got them front and center and I am not sure how I feel about it as a whole.
Even though I wasn't as into it I could never just stop watching because of that. It was a show that was unpredictable right up to the very end and for that reason alone I could not stop watching it. I knew it wouldn't be the same show once we got to episode 8, and I'd still tune in every week because it was still something worth watching. You don't have to totally enjoy every aspect of a thing to make it worth watching, this was a weekly experience we won't ever get again and that's why I never cut loose from it.
So overall, I'm glad for those who have a lot to sink their teeth into, and I totally hope Lynch and Showtime are true in saying that they would like to do more because it's hard to have expectations anymore so I'll tune in for life just to see what side of Twin Peaks we'll get next. I just hope it isn't 25 years later.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
"DC?"
"No. State. Washington state."
An all timer.
"No. State. Washington state."
An all timer.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
People expecting this finale to wrap things up were expecting Lynch to not be Lynch.
People expecting a potential Season 4 to wrap things up are making the same mistake they made with Season 3.
You guys are forgetting that this is the same Lynch that literally never wanted to reveal Laura's killer in the first place. A lot of the best plot points of this series came from TV execs pressuring him to resolve things.
People expecting a potential Season 4 to wrap things up are making the same mistake they made with Season 3.
You guys are forgetting that this is the same Lynch that literally never wanted to reveal Laura's killer in the first place. A lot of the best plot points of this series came from TV execs pressuring him to resolve things.
iShouldGoPro
Member
when carrie paige opens the door she asks if cooper "found him." but who...
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
That....was something. Haunting, amazing. I liked Part 18 more than 17 but need to to rewatch once I have recovered.
I want to add, also, that Season 2 was cancelled and that ending was set up in hopes of a Season 3.
Lynch wrote this ending knowing full well that people expected some form of closure because this was going to be the last TP thing (AFTER 25 YEARS).
I honestly don't think I would be as disappointed if he had stuck with the original 9 episode order instead of needlessly padding it out with self-indulgent bullshit.
Lynch wrote this ending knowing full well that people expected some form of closure because this was going to be the last TP thing (AFTER 25 YEARS).
I honestly don't think I would be as disappointed if he had stuck with the original 9 episode order instead of needlessly padding it out with self-indulgent bullshit.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
There are TONS of questions about Carrie's life. The dead guy. The ringing phone. No food. She hadn't been to work in three days.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Like what?
I mean maybe it's just me but I never expected minor nobody characters to suddenly show up at the end and be involved in things.
I'm honestly more satisfied with storylines that have been abandoned than I am with the ones that received painfully rushed conclusions (usually involving somebody's head exploding or getting a bad bullet pasted over one of their eyes).
For me, this was The Dougie Show and that's the only bundle of story arcs that felt somewhat complete, everything is just a collection of slice of (bizarre) life anecdotes added for flavor.
Haha, Jesus Christ. Get a load of this guy.
No but I did expect certain events and scenes to amount to something more than "hey, isn't this weird!?"
And I get that is basically Lynch in a nutshell but it's way more palatable at 2 hours than 18 hours.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Like what?
David Lynch Presents Prometheus: A Movie that People Loved, Hated, or Indifferent about it. This season had alot of style but it struggled to give it substance at times. It lacked heart at times, which is something that I dearly enjoyed when it would occur ie Bobby and his mother, Coop returns, the gangster bros rewarding Dougie with that pie. It just wanted to be constantly oppressive that everything was shit and the season finale really wanted to bury that nail in your head. If anything the only happy thing that happened in TP was Ed and Norma getting together in a sequence so fast that you were like lol okay. There's literally so much I was curious about the town and how it was being affected rather than having us sit in South Dakota and Vegas so much. Like Gordon, TP, and Albert sat in one damn room the entire time after Hastings was murdered. I could go on with the random TP plotlines that don't seem to have a conclusion that I guess are now wiped now that we are going into Fringe territory pretty much. OH MY GOD we are watching Fringe now lol.