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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

Rewatching it now and I seem to have a much better understanding of what they were going for. Everything up until the end of episode 17 where Laura disappears holding Coopers hand seems very hopeful and from there it all goes downhill until the very end where it seems like Cooper is truly lost. I love how, in that scene, the camera pans at a snails pace across the forest for ages hoping that Laura returns so we can have that happy ending. It's like it was never meant to be.
 
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Still not sure how I feel about the finale but fuck me that final scene was horrifying. I'm entranced every time Sheryl Lee is on screen, how did she never make it big?

Fire Walk With Me had me baffled as to why she never hit it big. Then she gives a couple horrifying screams in here too that raise the question once again.
 

Scrawnton

Member
Why is Lynch so scared to take risks like, say, Andy or Truman getting hurt by Evil Cooper, but not to end the season (and presumably series) with an acid trip that ignores most of what we saw on screen for 16+ hours? That act 3 Dragonbob vs. Hulk fight was just so laughably bad. Was that his idea of a conventional ending?

Why did Andy have a vision and then it awkwardly cuts to him offering Coop a chair?

Ugh. I wanted to like the finale. Episodes 14-16 were promising. But I can't defend this.

I think episode 17 represented the absurdity of TRYING to wrap up the story that is Evil Cooper and BOB. I think it was presented in that cheesy way on purpose as a way to show us that there is no reasonable way to end all of the nonsense that was brought up within the three seasons of this show. Lynch and Frost then proceeded to return to the beginning of the whole season where Dale gets to walk out of the lodge and try to save Laura Palmer. The real ending of the show is not the cheesy hokey way to tie up loose ends, it is Dale realizing that Laura Palmer can't be saved and he sacrificed himself (and possible the whole twin peaks timeline) by trying to do so.
 

Addi

Member
An interesting contrast between Audrey's reality and Cooper's reality is that Audrey says "get me out of here" before she wakes up and Cooper says "what year is this?". one is trapped in space while the other is lost in time.
 
So some more thoughts a few hours later.

The song that plays when Cooper and Diane are having sex is the same song that plays in Part 8 when the Woodsman takes over the radio station and says the verse, "This is the water, and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within." I don't know exactly right now what that comparison means, but when it happens Diane begins to cover Cooper's face. Of note, Cooper's face is super imposed in Part 17 over the whole scene which can be considered the 'happy ending'.

I am pretty sure the implication is Cooper is the dreamer. He even says before he disappears from the Sheriff's station, "We live inside a dream. I hope I see all of you again. Everyone of you." And that's the last thing Cooper says to everyone before going back in time and the things that happen, and Cooper's face is super imposed on the image.

Cooper as we see him in Part 18 seems to literally mad, like actually crazy. He comes out of a place which isn't the place it should be, he shoots someone in the foot and deep fries their guns while threatening a lady (with courteousness) for an address. He finds a woman and is convinced she's Laura Palmer, and drives her all the way from Texas to Washington to show her Sarah Palmer's house, which isn't Sarah Palmer's house. From a very different angle all of this seems quite mad, and can come off as Cooper completely unhinged. It's not clear if he's even an FBI agent or just believes he's an FBI Agent. Essentially where he's coming from is an ideal for him, his good and evil is separate, he is an upstanding agent loved by all, even at his lowest there's always forces to guide him, his quirkiness is charming, and he's in a situation where he can help people, maybe the only person who can in some cases. But this ends when he goes to save Laura, there's an evil there he can't change no matter how hard he tries. Even when reality twists to wherever he ends up with Diane, everything is different and nothing is the world that Cooper/Richard knows from before. But there's one single element that's lingering, and it's the evil. Somewhere deep in the house is the reminder of the atrocity of Laura's murder, which is what I believe the ending means. Even with everything changed, the one thing Cooper wanted to change to help everything is the one untangiable that cannot be shifted, it's left a permanent scar.

The series often has thematics of good vs evil, and the struggle between them, or maybe less the struggle but more the duality between the two of them. Beneath goodness there is horror, goodness can settle within the nests of horror but it can be twisted, and there is a shadow beneath a facade. The finale perverts Cooper's own goodness and casts questions on him all together. No longer is his good and evil separate, they seem interchanged. The pure evil we saw from Mr. C is not some separate entity, it is a part of him, and it perverts hid own inherent goodness. Cooper's own pursuit of goodness can be a perversion that causes suffering. This happened somewhat in the Season 2 finale going into Season 3, but it's true here too. In the act of wanting to do good, he learns he can't change everything no matter his intentions. As Major Briggs says in the original series, "My greatest fear is that love may never be enough."

I think what happens in the end effects the beginning. When Laura is swept up from the Black Lodge in Part 2 it's when she disappears in Part 17. I think we see the ripples of the end result happening through the whole season. Leland's only role this season is asking Cooper to save Laura, but the truth is that's an impossible task. We are lead to believe at first we are getting the happiest possible ending, that BOB is defeated by a literal superhero pre-determined to save the world with a destiny, that Cooper comes in with happy confidence to save the day, everyone collects around the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Department for a happy ending. Through all of this, Cooper's face is super imposed again. Laura can be saved, Cooper can go back in time and save her. But this is all an illusion, it's all a dream, a dream they're all living inside of and Cooper wakes up from.

He holds Laura Palmer's hand to save her in Part 17, but she disappears. He then leads Carrie by her hand to the Palmer House only to find it's not the Palmer House at all. Whenever he tries to lead Laura to safety, he fails. And every time he fails, we hear Laura's blood-curtling scream. We heard it at the start when she's sucked away, we heard it when she disappeared in Part 17, and it's the last thing we hear in Part 18. Cooper keeps trying and fails, but Laura seems destined to not have a happy ending, she is a tragedy (of note Carrie has an upside down shoehorse necklace).

There's more I'm thinking, but a few thoughts from a few hours later.

There's a much more straight forward reason for Diane covering his face, he has the face of the man who raped her.

It was a very strangely intimate and patient sequence about recovering from abuse and assault after a relatively "normally" paced series. The show just stopped to allow itself to really examine the tragedy of that particular situation.

And of course, "My Prayer" brings it back to the themes of the invasion and destruction of innocence.
 
Fun fact sort of. As someone who is from the Philadelphia area, Chalfont is an area in the suburbs of Philadelphia near where I grew up: https://goo.gl/maps/t2SJ8667KYs. David Lynch lived and went to school in Philadelphia. I find it funny when I hear Mrs. Chalfont being mentioned because of this episode.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
My feelings are simply this.

Episode 17 was a strong culmination of heavy threads sewn by the season thus far, ending by cementing the story as one thematically dedicated to Cooper and Laura, leaving a lingering unsettlingness in its resolution.
And Episode 18 continued that unsettlingness as a long stretch of the surreal, like watching a disjointed journey of correction that just feels...wrong.

Plenty to digest, but as Lynch aims to evoke sensations and emotions, I feel Episode 18 did that fittingly.

Second all this. The bolded he achieved. Narratively, less so

Personally...I can give or take S4 in the next few years.

I'd settle for Lynch and Kyle shooting some footage , dialogue, ideas and themes soon in secret then in 25 years Lynch (or before his death if sooner) entrust TP to a new generation or auteur to take make a new series intwining them.

I get how that may rub some up the wrong way but hey, that's Lynch's M.O ;-)
 

Slaythe

Member
I don't think people should take what happened in the first half of episode 17 at face value.

I know it sounds like a "Lynch apologist" thing to say.

But we literally had a giant Cooper head tell us "we live inside a dream", on top of overly cartoony scenes and people standing there passively, then reacting to said giant head.

All of which were the trigger for Cooper to converse with a giant teapot shortly before travelling back in time.

I mean, sure we don't know exactly what it all means, and what it's supposed to be, and the "it's all a dream" kinda stories suck, but the point is... it's not a regular reality/something "broke" reality.

The fact that this shit was super ridiculous was probably the point, I personally didn't like it either as I expected to be an actual conclusion. But since episode 18 is the exact opposite of that, leading to some of the most unsettling scenes of the series, it appears obvious it was a deliberate choice, over sheer incompetence.
 
I thought episode 18 is my favourite of the entire season. We were all waiting for Cooper to Ben back but something about Cooper since he got out of coma seemed weird. It was that Cooper that was out of time. I think after what he has been through the Cooper from ep 18 makes more sense. And I loved the pacing. The car scene specially reminded me of Solaris.
 
I don't think people should take what happened in the first half of episode 17 at face value.

I know it sounds like a "Lynch apologist" thing to say.

But we literally had a giant Cooper head tell us "we live inside a dream", on top of overly cartoony scenes and people standing there passively, then reacting to said giant head.

All of which were the trigger for Cooper to converse with a giant teapot shortly before travelling back in time.

I mean, sure we don't know exactly what it all means, and what it's supposed to be, and the "it's all a dream" kinda stories suck, but the point is... it's not a regular reality/something "broke" reality.

The fact that this shit was super ridiculous was probably the point, I personally didn't like it either as I expected to be an actual conclusion. But since episode 18 is the exact opposite of that, leading to some of the most unsettling scenes of the series, it appears obvious it was a deliberate choice, over sheer incompetence.

Did people react to the Coop overlay?
 

Tall4Life

Member
Regardless of how you feel about episode 18 and its implications, I feel it's no matter what still somewhat disappointing that many of the side characters/plot lines either didn't go anywhere, had no effect on the overall storyline, mostly separated from the rest of the world, etc. While it was cool to see what was happening to Jacoby, Nadine, and so on, it feels largely unimportant, more like filler.

Though the alternate universe thing does pose some interesting questions -- maybe in that scene at the gas station or whatever when the dude is eating, and his reflection doesn't match his actions -- perhaps that wasn't some fucked up time thing within the first universe but showing the alternate universe in the reflection?

And when Diane was waiting in the car at the gas station, and saw herself standing over by where Cooper went, was that maybe Linda? Diane seemed to have stayed relatively the same from when she awoke from Naido to the motel, until they had sex and woke up.
 
I have a good idea what happened to Nadine. She left Ed and probably ended up with Jacoby, or at the very least found a new meaning and contentness in her life through his rants. I don’t really understand why that needs an on screen conclusion; it would just be a boring 5 minute scene about two mostly unimportant people.

Plot threads like that don’t really bother me. If we have a sense of knowing what happened that’s enough. I don’t need to see it.
 
Holy fuck. That was some of the best television I've ever watched. The second half of part 17 was so incredibly emotional and well put together. I started crying when I heard Julee Cruise's voice. And then the drawn out, surreal, reality that is part 18. And that ending. This will stick with me for a long time.

Also this shot was the scariest fucking thing:

GWEafrK.png
 

Scrawnton

Member
My main take away is that 90% of Season 3 wasn't supposed to happen. The Return could've easily been a two hour follow-up movie where the fireman tells Cooper about the way to stop Mother was to save Laura from the murder and they could've played the last hour and a half of the finale and things would've been content in the world of Twin Peaks. What we learned was that you can't save everyone and Laura Palmer is destined to not existence in any time line as an adult. Lynch more or less told us there's no going back and Twin Peaks as we know it can't exist anymore, it's just he made us wait through 16 episode of mostly irrelevance to get to that point.

This could've just been a 2-3 hour movie that told us Dale and Laura are destined to be lost to time/space.
 
My main take away is that 90% of Season 3 wasn't supposed to happen. The Return could've easily been a two hour follow-up movie where the fireman tells Cooper about the way to stop Mother was to save Laura from the murder and they could've played the last hour and a half of the finale and things would've been content in the world of Twin Peaks. What we learned was that you can't save everyone and Laura Palmer is destined to not existence in any time line as an adult. Lynch more or less told us there's no going back and Twin Peaks as we know it can't exist anymore, it's just he made us wait through 16 episode of mostly irrelevance to get to that point.

This could've just been a 2-3 hour movie that told us Dale and Laura are destined to be lost to time/space.

Where's the fun in that?
 

EGM1966

Member
Wow. That's going to take a while to digest. The final conversation and resulting scream where truly unsettling and odd.

It's been a long, odd road to seeing the familiar shot of the two main characters in limbo exchanging cryptic and to us unknown information.

I figured Lynch would avoid like hell the finale of Season 2 and its frenetic horror and darkness and he did. Instead this time we get a slow, steady movement away from the apparent victories of EP17 and back into the darkness of uncertainty and doubt to close of one hell of a stinger.
 

Scrawnton

Member
Where's the fun in that?
I think Lynch and Frost has a whole lot of fun messing with us all summer just to pull the rug from underneath is, flash back to the first episode again, and more or less tell us this is what was supposed to happen and everything you just watched was meaningless.

I loved this season, it was amazing. But to negate all of it in the final episode makes you wonder why not skip all the dark cooper stuff and just make a 2-3 movie that really messes with our minds.

This story has been genius and I commend them for it.
 
DoppelArm was right all along: Coop is non-existent.

The closest we get to other 'Coop overlay' moments in the show are Garland's floating head, and when Cole opens the door and the Fire Walk With Me scene plays over the doorway.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Sorry if asked - when Coop was driving in 18 with Diane (or possible later with Carrie/Laura) during the night - was something greyish occasionally being overlayed on Cooper's side towards the window / screen?

Apologies if vague also, im at work now and tired - will take screen caps later. It just stood out
 

JohnDoe

Banned
Here is my rambling mess of a theory or at least what I've got so far:

Cooper saves Laura so the timeline changes as we see the beginning of the pilot is changed to Pete simply going fishing
Present Day Judy/Sarah Palmer realizes this and gets angry. She's destroying Laura's picture but the picture is unharmed the same way Laura is now out of harms way.
Coop is leading Laura to the white lodge entrance but she is teleported away by Judy as a last resort (just like at the beginning of the season in the black lodge when she opens her face and gets sucked out of the room; it has the exact same scream and warping sound effect).
Cooper enters the black lodge again and sees the arm who asks him if this is the story of the little girl who lived down the lane. This to me is basically the arm hinting at the "alternate timeline" people are talking about where Laura Palmer is Carrie Page.
Cooper leaves and ends up back to what I assume is the present (at this point I doubt even that is true). This is where it gets tricky. Think back to Laura Palmer being saved by Dale.
Now that Laura doesn't die, he's never assigned to the case or perhaps she is only missing and the case takes a completely new direction.
This is where the new timeline (Timeline 2) starts:
Even though Laura Palmer isn't found wrapped in plastic, Cooper is part of the Blue Rose task force and winds up finding out about the lodges etc. In this timeline as we clearly see Diane waiting outside. Since the events between April 23rd 1989 and 2015/16 in this timeline are largely unknown to us this also explains why only Diane is waiting for him and not the rest of the Twin Peaks crew.
Also notice that while Cooper *completely* changes after crossing 430 miles his voice here sounds more like Mr C and he isn't his usual chipper self either. I am guessing that he's already been changed by Timeline 2, retaining knowledge from his experiences in Timeline 1. But that's not all...
Remember The Giants clue: 430
They drive 430 miles and once they cross that point, they won't be the same. Many people are assuming that Coop (or both of them) entered a dream reality/different dimension similar to Audrey's after that point (dreamer who lives inside the dream). I think he's already in a different reality as soon as he leaves the black lodge. The switch from one reality to other one isn't instantaneous however! In my opinion the black lodge acts as a link between the "dream world" and the world from S01E01 - S03E17 and moving away from it further than 430 miles means you transition into the "dream world" completely.
When they arrive at the motel Cooper gets out of the car, gets a room and then comes back. When he comes back his transition into "RichardCoop" is complete. He's now a fusion of Richard and Dale; the cold guy we see beating up those three rednecks later with all of his memories as Dale Cooper intact.
Cooper completely changes and Diane notices this. We get the awkward sex-scene and after they wake up Cooper reads her note and finds out they are called Richard and Linda (one of the Giants clues). When he leaves his room he's standing in front of a completely different Motel and his car is different too. His transition into the dream world is 100% complete now.
When he finds Laura he sees things like the white horse statue which are obviously constructed from memories of the original world.
They visit the Tremonds who bought the house from the Chalfonts. Obviously something's up with those names. Cooper starts to realize he fucked up. He asks what year it is. This triggers something inside Laura/Carrie. Why? Because she got banished to this world in 1989 when she was with Coop.
They both are banished inside Laura's dream world now (she's the dreamer who lives inside the dream). For Judy that's...

Two birds with one stone B-)
 
I really need to watch Ep 17 and 18 again knowing what we know now. What year is it when Coop leaves the lodge the second 'correct' time, when they stay at the hotel after mile marker 430 is time flying into the future and he wakes up in the same location x amount of years in the future, thus leading him to wonder what year it is?

I don't think Judy won, or that Coop is doomed - he was clearly worried about what year it was and that he messed something up, but Laura's scream of recognition means that he was right and she was Laura Palmer in some shape or form.
 

jett

D-Member
Episode 17 was great.

People pretending Episode 18 was anything but abject garbage are suffering from the most extreme and fucked up case of Stockholm syndrome.
 
My main take away is that 90% of Season 3 wasn't supposed to happen. The Return could've easily been a two hour follow-up movie where the fireman tells Cooper about the way to stop Mother was to save Laura from the murder and they could've played the last hour and a half of the finale and things would've been content in the world of Twin Peaks. What we learned was that you can't save everyone and Laura Palmer is destined to not existence in any time line as an adult. Lynch more or less told us there's no going back and Twin Peaks as we know it can't exist anymore, it's just he made us wait through 16 episode of mostly irrelevance to get to that point.

This could've just been a 2-3 hour movie that told us Dale and Laura are destined to be lost to time/space.
Storytelling does not exist to give you answers as soon as possible. It's the same as "this journey could've been avoided if the characters just did this". Sure. But they didn't. So here's the story

I understand people feeling let down that there's zero closure but if you were someone who enjoyed the ride (as I did) the ending doesn't invalidate those feelings. It just leaves you with more questions. There really wasn't a "mystery" this time around as much as an overwhelming sense of "what is going on", which kept up for all 18 episodes.

I also have the suspicion that there may have been more of a plan for a season 4 than anyone has let on. Episode 17 was some heavy "wrapping it all up, everything's great" before the rug is pulled out from everyone in 18. What's nice is the ending could be used as the jumping off point for "Cooper fixing things" but as a weird cliffhanger it can at least be seen as a bleak ending. (Whereas Season 2's finale is "uh oh Bad Cooper is out in real life and Good Cooper is trapped who's gonna fix this?") There doesn't need to be more after this. But it would be nice.

Where's the fun in that?
That's the spirit!
 
I think Lynch and Frost has a whole lot of fun messing with us all summer just to pull the rug from underneath is, flash back to the first episode again, and more or less tell us this is what was supposed to happen and everything you just watched was meaningless.

I loved this season, it was amazing. But to negate all of it in the final episode makes you wonder why not skip all the dark cooper stuff and just make a 2-3 movie that really messes with our minds.

This story has been genius and I commend them for it.

More than pull the rug out from under us, I'd say they just swept everything under it. Almost all storylines went nowhere.
 

hamchan

Member
Holy fuck. That was some of the best television I've ever watched. The second half of part 17 was so incredibly emotional and well put together. I started crying when I heard Julee Cruise's voice. And then the drawn out, surreal, reality that is part 18. And that ending. This will stick with me for a long time.

Also this shot was the scariest fucking thing:

The Jumping Man being Sarah/Mother/the ultimate big bad of the series is something I sure didn't expect. This shot seems to be the moment where she sees what Dale is up to and is like "not on my watch".
 

Corpsepyre

Banned
My mind is fucking shot to oblivion. Someone help me. I'm stuttering my words here trying to talk to people at what transpired at the end. WHAT HAPPENED? HELP ME!!!
 

JohnDoe

Banned
Episode 17 was great.

People pretending Episode 18 was anything but abject garbage are suffering from the most extreme and fucked up case of Stockholm syndrome.

This shit again.
People can genuinely like things you absolutely don't. It's fine this is only a TV show.

What if the Fireman was warning him, not advising him?

That's exactly what I am thinking.
Laura was created for the purpose of stopping Judy or keeping her in check and now Cooper has established himself as a huge threat too (working with the Fireman and winning against Mr C and BOB).
 
Found this hilarious tidbit about "Judy" on Reddit, courtesy of user Draktsakal:

交代, that is "jiāo dài", is Chinese meaning 'to explain'. The ultimate negative force is explanation. Lynch's life philosophy. Son of a bitch.
 
Why you gotta do me like that fam

Rex Racer lives in a dream

Its all a dream, why is the evil british guy so intent on ruining the Racer family. What makes Speed so good compared to the other racers, with that naive family first mindset. It's all a delusion by a drugged out Nascar fan.
 

hamchan

Member
What if the Fireman was warning him, not advising him?

Then he messed up real bad! Should have just info dumped straight into Cooper's head like he did Andy.

Anyways nah, I think everything is turning out like the Giant wants, which makes the ending less bleak if we assume the Giant is good.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Then he messed up real bad! Should have just info dumped straight into Cooper's head like he did Andy.

Anyways nah, I think everything is turning out like the Giant wants, which makes the ending less bleak if we assume the Giant is good.

Didn't the Giant seemingly operate equipment in the scene Evil Coop went from the Lodge with Briggs next to him to the Sheriff station.

Looking like he was assisting the travel process?
 
This shit again.
People can genuinely like things you absolutely don't. It's fine this is only a TV show.

No, you're only pretending to like something. It's impossible for people to like things I don't like.

Fire Walk With Me had me baffled as to why she never hit it big. Then she gives a couple horrifying screams in here too that raise the question once again.

She blew me away in FWWM. Combine that with her red room scenes from the original series, she's incredible.
 
Then he messed up real bad! Should have just info dumped straight into Cooper's head like he did Andy.

Anyways nah, I think everything is turning out like the Giant wants, which makes the ending less bleak if we assume the Giant is good.

But if Cassie/Laura is the dreamer, and Coop/Richard is living in her dream, then she screams and wakes up... Where does that leave Coop?
 
Didn't the Giant seemingly operate equipment in the scene Evil Coop went from the Lodge with Briggs next to him to the Sheriff station.

Looking like he was assisting the travel process?
When Evil Coop arrived the screen originally had the Palmer house (which would have reunited Bob and Mother). He shifts it to the police station
 
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