-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
Wrestlemania
Banned
The most obvious implication I can think of is that what was happening is something hed been told about while in the red room.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
It was literally all a dream.
Also, I hate Film Crit Hulk on principle because he's writing regular shit under that ditch-stupid fucking name, but this is vey good:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/twin-peaks-the-return-finale-recap.html
Don Draper's Hat
Member
So what was with Ashley Judd and the humming and her husband?
Did Steven kill himself? And if so why?
Who was Billy?
Who was Andy's picnic basket for?
What was up with Jesse?
Who or what was in Sarah Palmer's kitchen?
How's Annie?
Did Steven kill himself? And if so why?
Who was Billy?
Who was Andy's picnic basket for?
What was up with Jesse?
Who or what was in Sarah Palmer's kitchen?
How's Annie?
s_mirage
Member
I thought the same thing. He seemed to act "flat", almost like Mr C rather than Cooper. I was actually expecting him to be Mr C when the sex scene happened, especially after the appearance of the second Diane.
Kinda same.
Kyle definitely deliberately channelled the exact same stern grimace as Mr C during part of the sex
VistraNorrez
Member
I don't watch Twin Peaks because I want definitive closure. I watch because I want to see what Lynch/Frost are cooking up in the world of Twin Peaks.
.........Seems like I picked a pretty appropriate thread title, huh?
So uh, I very much liked these two episodes, and while it didn't reach the heights of the season 2 finale for me I think I do love episode 18 as a season finale. The sense of dread was really powerful, and that scream is etched in my brain. As a series finale however, I'm not sure how to feel about it. Not that that's an uncommon sentiment.
When I watched FWWM I felt like it gave closure to Laura and Dale on a spiritual level, if that makes sense. The Doppelganger plot thread remained unresolved, but least Dale Cooper managed to give Laura some peace of mind. I suppose there's something beautifully tragic to Coop undoing that now, but I'd be lying if I said it's what I was hoping for on an emotional level (which wasn't necessarily a proper happy ending mind you, just something more ambiguous would've been okay). To me this doesn't actually seem all that typical for a David Lynch ending either y'know. In heaven everything is fine.
I always expected there to be new mysteries at the end of this season, but yeah, this is just brutal if it's where it ends. It's also very exciting to me because it makes me long for more, and I'm still convinced for now that we'll get more. That might be foolish on my end though.
What matters to me is the emotional state at the end of things. New mysteries are great, I don't want an everyhing-wrapped-up ending either. But I'd sure like something a little less bleak.
And yeah, overall I really loved this season. So I just want more because of that too.
So uh, I very much liked these two episodes, and while it didn't reach the heights of the season 2 finale for me I think I do love episode 18 as a season finale. The sense of dread was really powerful, and that scream is etched in my brain. As a series finale however, I'm not sure how to feel about it. Not that that's an uncommon sentiment.
When I watched FWWM I felt like it gave closure to Laura and Dale on a spiritual level, if that makes sense. The Doppelganger plot thread remained unresolved, but least Dale Cooper managed to give Laura some peace of mind. I suppose there's something beautifully tragic to Coop undoing that now, but I'd be lying if I said it's what I was hoping for on an emotional level (which wasn't necessarily a proper happy ending mind you, just something more ambiguous would've been okay). To me this doesn't actually seem all that typical for a David Lynch ending either y'know. In heaven everything is fine.
I always expected there to be new mysteries at the end of this season, but yeah, this is just brutal if it's where it ends. It's also very exciting to me because it makes me long for more, and I'm still convinced for now that we'll get more. That might be foolish on my end though.
What matters to me is the emotional state at the end of things. New mysteries are great, I don't want an everyhing-wrapped-up ending either. But I'd sure like something a little less bleak.
And yeah, overall I really loved this season. So I just want more because of that too.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Straight from the original show. Edited out body bag aside.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
What the hell is up with Ontkean, I mean he didnt even get a cameo in old footage...Pete I can understand it being Lynchs friend, BUT FRICKEN LEO, CATHERINE AND JOSIE GOT ONE.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
YMMV but I love all these little asides of unconnected lives. The handyman calling Harvey about the cops and Chip.
It shows that payoff is rarely the intent of this show. It's about moments and lives.
It shows that payoff is rarely the intent of this show. It's about moments and lives.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Those shots are the opening shots of the pilot leading to Pete discovering Lauras body. It made sense for them to be used, whereas theres no old shots of Harry that needed to be included.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
if we do get more, Im guessing itll even have less Twin Peaks in it than this.
Random Cooper and Laura adventures in who the hell knows.
Cut back to reality Twin Peaks Andy eating a donut browsing for couches for 10 minutes.
Yeah but in a show where we get random door scream Laura with Albert, Zordon Briggs, and Dragonball Bob, it just seems strange by total omission and being off screen sick.
Random Cooper and Laura adventures in who the hell knows.
Cut back to reality Twin Peaks Andy eating a donut browsing for couches for 10 minutes.
Yeah but in a show where we get random door scream Laura with Albert, Zordon Briggs, and Dragonball Bob, it just seems strange by total omission and being off screen sick.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
An article from two years ago holy shit
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/ther...whole-lot-of-screaming-at-twin-peaks-house/
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/ther...whole-lot-of-screaming-at-twin-peaks-house/
Zombie James
Banned
It is Twin Peaks, just changed. I think it would in interesting to revisit the town and the people in a world where Laura wasn't murdered. Bob-possessed Leland is still out there in this one, or at least he stuck around for a good while longer.
Just watched the finale, I'm skimming through the reactions.
I'm a guy who didn't like ep 8. I thought it was boring. But I liked ep 18, a lot. I also liked ep 17.
I think there's probably a lot of stuff that isn't immediately apparent, that would become clear on rewatches. However, I'm probably never going to rewatch this. I don't rewatch things in general and this season was too exhausting and filled with bullshit in general.
Hopefully there's a season 4. This wasn't an ending, after all.
I'm a guy who didn't like ep 8. I thought it was boring. But I liked ep 18, a lot. I also liked ep 17.
I think there's probably a lot of stuff that isn't immediately apparent, that would become clear on rewatches. However, I'm probably never going to rewatch this. I don't rewatch things in general and this season was too exhausting and filled with bullshit in general.
Hopefully there's a season 4. This wasn't an ending, after all.
I feel the same, more or less, I just think a lot of the knee jerk reactions to the ending -- including my own! -- of "Please tell me there will be a S4!!" is kind of predicated on the idea that a fourth season would then resolve this cliffhanger. Which, maybe it would, but then there'd just be another one after that.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
That would be interesting if they played that up, I guess just not knowing at this point kind of leaves 18 as bleak, but if there is more it leaves it more as potentially awesome. Issue is also the OG actors are getting old, like we already won't get Log Lady (although her changed version could also be gone due to cancer etc). Or Albert.... FUCK GENE KELLY!
Watch we get a season 4 with Ontkean who isn't the Harry we remember. Oh god its probably whats going to happen...
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
You can't go back, not really. What's there now is not the same as before. I think that's the main theme. We see two versions of Coop trying to go back to Twin Peaks. In 17 it's a fairytale, a green-fisted superhero kills the bad guy and our heros all come together. Then in 18 we see everything has moved on, there is no Twin Peaks to return to really. Coop was frozen but time didn't stand still, he tries to go back and fix the past but it's gone now. Laura? Who's Laura?
"The future is built on the past" Coop says after our happy ending in 17 just as overlaid Coop is about to tell us "We all live inside a dream". In 18 he yells "What year is it?".
There was no going back to change the past, it's gone now.
Or at least that's where I'm at right now. Give me 10 more minutes and I'll have flipped on the whole thing I'm sure.
All I know is whatever happened, it freaked me the fuck out
"The future is built on the past" Coop says after our happy ending in 17 just as overlaid Coop is about to tell us "We all live inside a dream". In 18 he yells "What year is it?".
There was no going back to change the past, it's gone now.
Or at least that's where I'm at right now. Give me 10 more minutes and I'll have flipped on the whole thing I'm sure.
All I know is whatever happened, it freaked me the fuck out
One thing I've got to say is, when the show ended as Laura screamed and her houselights went out, I actually gapsed and said 'no fucking way' (i was alone). I think part of me was just loving the fact that I was surprised by the way it ended. It is a very bleak ending indeed, but is it? What does it mean? What kind of nightmare is Cooper in now? And so on. That's a really nice emotional state to be in at the end of this.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Also we could be over thinking it, Richard/Coop Laura/Carrie could come across a cosmic sock on the sidewalk and teleport back into the OG Sheriffs Station and eat pie and coffee with Harry, Andy, and Hawk for all we can predict.
Ragnarsson
Member
An incredible conclusion to Twin Peaks. I'm torn between feeling totally satisfied with this season and wanting more of this insanely amazing show. I will try to collect some thoughts later today and post something coherent.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
This attempt at discounting the views of people who disagree with you as "stans" is poisonous, toxic, and frankly pathetic. Accept that people like different things or you're destined for a life of resentment and disappointment.
I can only imagine that the impulse that drove you to this post is a deep seated fear that you having an opinion is not enough. You didn't like certain parts of the finale, but there was this itch, this sense that maybe some people did. But would that mean you're wrong? You missed something? They're better than you? Smarter than you? Are you somehow lesser than?
Nah dude. People just like different things. You can share what you like and don't like and I can share what I like and don't like, but don't dismiss opinions as some kind of fawning.
We all see the fear in you, and it's not going to change anyone's mind. It's just sad.
HashtagLapsed
Member
Honestly, I fucking love how many people were upset about Lucy freaking out about mobile phones and it became one of the most important things in the show.
Some people are going to write this opinion off as pretentious bullshit, so I just want to preface it by saying I didn't love this season and I thought several episodes were boring and pointless, and it might still be pointless overall - but here it goes:
I think typical prestiege TV drama fans just don't know what to make of this thing. I don't think they get it. They talk about it in terms of 'villains going out like bitches' and 'og coop is back baby!' etc, and that's just not the field this this was playing in. It wasn't a continuation of Twin Peaks the 90's sensation, either, it was something else. It was an alternate reality Twin Peaks, from the start. It might actually be a very deep and interesting thing, I can't say right now because I just saw it and haven't thought about it, or it might not be. The only thing I know is that this is arthouse cinema masquerading as a premium cable TV drama, and people who don't know how to take arthouse cinema don't know how to deal with this, so you just get a bunch of dissatisfied people and the consensus will eventually be that this season was bad, but it actually wasn't bad, it just wasn't Twin Peaks season 3.
I think typical prestiege TV drama fans just don't know what to make of this thing. I don't think they get it. They talk about it in terms of 'villains going out like bitches' and 'og coop is back baby!' etc, and that's just not the field this this was playing in. It wasn't a continuation of Twin Peaks the 90's sensation, either, it was something else. It was an alternate reality Twin Peaks, from the start. It might actually be a very deep and interesting thing, I can't say right now because I just saw it and haven't thought about it, or it might not be. The only thing I know is that this is arthouse cinema masquerading as a premium cable TV drama, and people who don't know how to take arthouse cinema don't know how to deal with this, so you just get a bunch of dissatisfied people and the consensus will eventually be that this season was bad, but it actually wasn't bad, it just wasn't Twin Peaks season 3.
A Serious Man
Member
All I know is that ending was terrifying.
plagiarize
Banned
I totally understand the frustration people have towards stuff like the night driving, but I absolutely can tell you why I liked that, a lot more than I liked Coop's face floating over a bunch of scenes, which just frustrated the hell out of me.
And while I'd normally be responding to you much like Benjamin just did, I'm giving everyone a mile of rope today to gather themselves and pick themselves back up after that finale last night. Because a lot of people I know are complete wrecks today. A lot are distraught. A lot are angry. A lot are beyond satisfied with the ending. A lot love it.
I don't think anyone is *happy* about it though.
So yeah, everyone gets at least a day to piece themselves together. We're all super emotional right now.
I had nightmares all night.
I am slowly figuring out exactly how I feel about what we saw, which is pretty much how the first finale made me feel when I saw it.
I'm glad there isn't a bow on it and an underline beneath it though. Because then we'd all move on. Maybe we'd all love it. Maybe we'd all hate it. But it would be what it was.
This? We'll be debating for years, until the day when if we are really lucky, more comes along. We'll have a lot of answers about season three... but I'll be expected to be left with a whole host of questions when that hypothetical season 4 ends.
HashtagLapsed
Member
For what it's worth, I agree with you. I kind of figured that was the case after episode 3 and by the end of episode 8 it seemed clear it was its own thing.
Kyle after the finale:
DougieMakeSenseofIt.gif incoming!!
Corpsepyre
Banned
I feel like crying.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
That's fair. I probably needent have gotten in the dude's face like that. We all process things differently.
Nice one, Richard.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I could use a supercut of all the knocked on doors in the series
John Dunbar
correct about everything
well these last two episodes managed to kill whatever little interest i had left in twin peaks.
mvp for the season: mitchum brothers and candie. runner up wally brando.
mvp for the season: mitchum brothers and candie. runner up wally brando.
Twin Peaks: The Return is Lynch's attempt to recon alot of what he disliked about the older seasons and also comment on how he now feels about OG TP personally. It seemed more about him wanting to focus more on the mystery of both Lodges and its inhabitants more than the characters that lived in TP, especially since he couldn't go back to a period where no one knew who murdered Laura. So to do that, this season was used to help wipe the slate clean if he ever wanted to return to this 'alt TP' show afterwards. If he liked anything previously, he would cherry pick it and plopped into this story so that he could wrap it up (or not, in some cases).
Honestly, most kind of had closure I feel. Even Audrey - that sometimes however harsh our realities may be, sometimes we hide away in our dreams where we may dance once again to our song.
The only closure I would have preferred to have is Coops - and honestly, if episode 17 had lingered on his face a bit longer then ended with him having the realising you cannot change the past. That would have done me.
Episode 18 leaves him in another place, another time, lost once more. I see the frustration.
Right now - like some others - I'm of the view EP17 was essentially thp e wrap of this season and as much of it as Lynch/Frost felt like closing off or at least making clear plotwise. That is apart from it's last scenes which felt like the prologue/start of something new.
The initial wrapping things up scenes in EP18 felt like final reminders of the previous season and the reality (or realities) it defined and characters it contained. EP18 then went on to feel like Episode 1 of something new. Characters changed subtly or overtly and a whole new reality presented abruptly and shockingly.
I'm fine with thr 18 hours we got but it Lynch/Frost and whoever they need from the cast want to pick up another season with the vibe and reality of EP18 then I'm super up for that too.
Damn though this season has wreaked other shows for me. Everything else is just so obvious and paint by numbers when you've been drenched in this amount of what - despite the obvious presence of Frost - feels like 100% Lynch on full power for so 18 hours.
The initial wrapping things up scenes in EP18 felt like final reminders of the previous season and the reality (or realities) it defined and characters it contained. EP18 then went on to feel like Episode 1 of something new. Characters changed subtly or overtly and a whole new reality presented abruptly and shockingly.
I'm fine with thr 18 hours we got but it Lynch/Frost and whoever they need from the cast want to pick up another season with the vibe and reality of EP18 then I'm super up for that too.
Damn though this season has wreaked other shows for me. Everything else is just so obvious and paint by numbers when you've been drenched in this amount of what - despite the obvious presence of Frost - feels like 100% Lynch on full power for so 18 hours.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
So I doubt I'll ever rewatch season 3, honestly. I felt there were a lot of things I let slide because "Lynch gonna Lynch" and in the hopes that it would come together in the end.
But hours and hours of Dougie only to get about 5 minutes of Cooper was underwhelming. And senseless IMO (make sense of it). Evil Cooper's intentions at this point seem suspiciously improvised on Lynch's end. Episode 8 was good (not a masterpiece) but honestly... I never asked for Laura Palmer to be some divine entity. Bob lost all of his sinister presence with Evil Coop. Instead of being some demon/spirit that feeds on pain and suffering and attacks people's insecurities/weaknesses, he was just a comic book villain reacting passively to what was going on around him (even the arm wrestling scene had emotionless delivery). Like, am I supposed to care that Evil Coop was... Trying to, what, find Phillip Jeffries, so he can, uhh, discover the meaning of Judy?
Lynch had some severe problems in his pacing/editing this season that most people defended as "it'll all come together by the end, it's all there for something" etc. but, I don't see it. Four redundant scenes of Jacoby's radio show, his golden shovels (which were present in the SECOND scene of the season!), all that was... for nothing IMO. And if it had any meaning, it was poorly telegraphed.
The Mitchum Bros. were just left off to the side to witness Lynch's mindfuck. James didn't even acknowledge Coop's presence. A British guy with a green glove (seriously, what) defeated Bob and sent him to the depths of hell from whence he came... Like, man. This was just bad. And I'll clarify again, this is just my opinion, but this was a badly told story. And sure in many cases Lynch has excelled in creating a sense of tension hiding in plain sight, an existential dread, etc. Particularly in the sound design (which has been outstanding).
The end of episode 17 with a dimension-bending Sarah Palmer thrashing a piece of broken glass at Laura's picture was phenomenal if only because of the lighting and sound. Yes, Laura Palmer's shriek and disappearance in the forest unsettled me. Yes the shot of her screaming and the lights going off in the Palmer residence was atmospheric, and represented the Hell that Cooper has seemingly stepped into... But it's not like that automatically excuses the fact that the story was inconsistently told. Characters were just unceremoniously killed off (or just plain standing off on the sidelines) because... they didn't serve a purpose anymore. And that's the problem. Characters, instead of being actual people, were mostly a representation of an idea. Evil incarnate/Good particularly. Even Norma and Ed's reunion felt undeserved, as Norma spent most of the season leafing through receipts, and Ed barely made his season 3 debut an episode or two before it happened.
Also, one of my biggest disappointments, which cemented itself in episode 8, is that the surreal elements from the show now turned into something with rules. Something that indisputably exists. It feels like Lost, or something, rather than a surreal representation of the evil that dwells inside man.
I doubt I'll rewatch season 3 ever again, but I'll still hold on dearly to seasons one, two, and especially the movie.
But hours and hours of Dougie only to get about 5 minutes of Cooper was underwhelming. And senseless IMO (make sense of it). Evil Cooper's intentions at this point seem suspiciously improvised on Lynch's end. Episode 8 was good (not a masterpiece) but honestly... I never asked for Laura Palmer to be some divine entity. Bob lost all of his sinister presence with Evil Coop. Instead of being some demon/spirit that feeds on pain and suffering and attacks people's insecurities/weaknesses, he was just a comic book villain reacting passively to what was going on around him (even the arm wrestling scene had emotionless delivery). Like, am I supposed to care that Evil Coop was... Trying to, what, find Phillip Jeffries, so he can, uhh, discover the meaning of Judy?
Lynch had some severe problems in his pacing/editing this season that most people defended as "it'll all come together by the end, it's all there for something" etc. but, I don't see it. Four redundant scenes of Jacoby's radio show, his golden shovels (which were present in the SECOND scene of the season!), all that was... for nothing IMO. And if it had any meaning, it was poorly telegraphed.
The Mitchum Bros. were just left off to the side to witness Lynch's mindfuck. James didn't even acknowledge Coop's presence. A British guy with a green glove (seriously, what) defeated Bob and sent him to the depths of hell from whence he came... Like, man. This was just bad. And I'll clarify again, this is just my opinion, but this was a badly told story. And sure in many cases Lynch has excelled in creating a sense of tension hiding in plain sight, an existential dread, etc. Particularly in the sound design (which has been outstanding).
The end of episode 17 with a dimension-bending Sarah Palmer thrashing a piece of broken glass at Laura's picture was phenomenal if only because of the lighting and sound. Yes, Laura Palmer's shriek and disappearance in the forest unsettled me. Yes the shot of her screaming and the lights going off in the Palmer residence was atmospheric, and represented the Hell that Cooper has seemingly stepped into... But it's not like that automatically excuses the fact that the story was inconsistently told. Characters were just unceremoniously killed off (or just plain standing off on the sidelines) because... they didn't serve a purpose anymore. And that's the problem. Characters, instead of being actual people, were mostly a representation of an idea. Evil incarnate/Good particularly. Even Norma and Ed's reunion felt undeserved, as Norma spent most of the season leafing through receipts, and Ed barely made his season 3 debut an episode or two before it happened.
Also, one of my biggest disappointments, which cemented itself in episode 8, is that the surreal elements from the show now turned into something with rules. Something that indisputably exists. It feels like Lost, or something, rather than a surreal representation of the evil that dwells inside man.
I doubt I'll rewatch season 3 ever again, but I'll still hold on dearly to seasons one, two, and especially the movie.
plagiarize
Banned
I think what makes it espescially hard, is that he is without guidance this time. Sure he isn't trapped in a place with rules he doesn't understand, but he's in a world, perhaps without magic, and the one person who went with him was lost to it.
He's without anchor.
It's a very different trap.
HashtagLapsed
Member
That may have been Frost, I think. A lot of the Lodge stuff references and takes some liberties with aspects of Western Occultism.
I feel like the dreams/identity/doppelganger stuff is more Lynch's wheelhouse, given Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive etc.