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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

A

Ashby

Member
Coop was so weird after him and Diane crossed over. First he was menacing as hell during the sex scene, then in his interaction with Carrie he was super understated, almost came off as depressed. He wasn't acting like Coop but he thought he was Coop.
 
J

Joqu

Member
I do find it funny how much we're focusing on Lynch here, myself included, when as far as we're aware this season has been just as much Frost's baby unless Lynch made some crazy changes while shooting the thing, and I highly doubt he did. I mean, Frost had just as much of say in the matter if we're talking about things like the way this season has ended.

I guess he's always going to get less recognition, whether it's blame or praise.
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
Ashby said:
Coop was so weird after him and Diane crossed over. First he was menacing as hell during the sex scene, then in his interaction with Carrie he was super understated, almost came off as depressed. He wasn't acting like Coop but he thought he was Coop.
Click to expand...

I wonder if something occurred when he first go into the motel to get the keys but perhaps they had changed the moment that the entered the 'alt dimension'.
 
W

WriterGK

Member
So I have been thinking. I don't care that some people think this wasn't a lot of "Twin Peaks"
For me it was a rollercoaster ride that was amazing and wonderfull. Are there question that haven't been answered? Sure, regular TV creators without the genius and abstract mind of David Lynch do that to, so no worries.
For me it was Magnificent. Kyle Machlachan should win all the awards. He is a true genius, even as BOB/Bad Coop.
Janey-E then. Naomi Watts rocks it out of the Park. Just terrific her acting of a seriously strong , beautiful and well organised woman. How she handled those Loan Sharks; A+
Then there is the Vegas people. Jim Belushi, Robert Knepper and Amy Shiels as Candie. What a pleasure to see nice and soft Mobsters. They really developped into great characters by there amazing acting. Jim delivered what Vaughn failed to do in TD.
Let's not forget Dana Ashbrook as Bobby Briggs. He sure as hell got mature. Episode 11 was just terrifying and amazing. He and The Honking Lady will go down to the Twin Peaks Hall of Fame.
Yeah sure there is enough cliff hanger for season 4 like Audrey and Red among others. But for me it's fine either way. This was soo much better than what I accepted. Only negative would be Tammy. But Laura Dern, David Lynch and R.I.P Legends Miguel Ferrer and Catherine Coulson where all fantastic. David Lynch directs but boy does he Act. Just wauw.
And Episode 17 just amazing. I have to come up with a new scale for that other then A+ and 10/10. Easily among Six Feet Under, Sopranos and Mad Men my favourite tv shows followed by Carnivale, The Wire and The Leftovers.
For me there was still a lot of going on in Twin Peaks but other stuff and cities where amazing to. And my so much Laura Palmer in the last two episodes what a joy.
I love you all so much. Thnx for the great experience. I wish more people would watch these 3 seasons and FWWM. I am not that good as most others with explaining so much theories but I truly loved it here.
Twin Peaks The Return for me will get an A+ / 10/10
 
G

gun_haver

Member
JoJoShabadoo said:
So I doubt I'll ever rewatch season 3, honestly. I felt there were a lot of things I let slide because "Lynch gonna Lynch" and in the hopes that it would come together in the end.

But hours and hours of Dougie only to get about 5 minutes of Cooper was underwhelming. And senseless IMO (make sense of it). Evil Cooper's intentions at this point seem suspiciously improvised on Lynch's end. Episode 8 was good (not a masterpiece) but honestly... I never asked for Laura Palmer to be some divine entity. Bob lost all of his sinister presence with Evil Coop. Instead of being some demon/spirit that feeds on pain and suffering and attacks people's insecurities/weaknesses, he was just a comic book villain reacting passively to what was going on around him (even the arm wrestling scene had emotionless delivery). Like, am I supposed to care that Evil Coop was... Trying to, what, find Phillip Jeffries, so he can, uhh, discover the meaning of Judy?

Lynch had some severe problems in his pacing/editing this season that most people defended as "it'll all come together by the end, it's all there for something" etc. but, I don't see it. Four redundant scenes of Jacoby's radio show, his golden shovels (which were present in the SECOND scene of the season!), all that was... for nothing IMO. And if it had any meaning, it was poorly telegraphed.

The Mitchum Bros. were just left off to the side to witness Lynch's mindfuck. James didn't even acknowledge Coop's presence. A British guy with a green glove (seriously, what) defeated Bob and sent him to the depths of hell from whence he came... Like, man. This was just bad. And I'll clarify again, this is just my opinion, but this was a badly told story. And sure in many cases Lynch has excelled in creating a sense of tension hiding in plain sight, an existential dread, etc. Particularly in the sound design (which has been outstanding).

The end of episode 17 with a dimension-bending Sarah Palmer thrashing a piece of broken glass at Laura's picture was phenomenal if only because of the lighting and sound. Yes, Laura Palmer's shriek and disappearance in the forest unsettled me. Yes the shot of her screaming and the lights going off in the Palmer residence was atmospheric, and represented the Hell that Cooper has seemingly stepped into... But it's not like that automatically excuses the fact that the story was inconsistently told. Characters were just unceremoniously killed off (or just plain standing off on the sidelines) because... they didn't serve a purpose anymore. And that's the problem. Characters, instead of being actual people, were mostly a representation of an idea. Evil incarnate/Good particularly. Even Norma and Ed's reunion felt undeserved, as Norma spent most of the season leafing through receipts, and Ed barely made his season 3 debut an episode or two before it happened.

Also, one of my biggest disappointments, which cemented itself in episode 8, is that the surreal elements from the show now turned into something with rules. Something that indisputably exists. It feels like Lost, or something, rather than a surreal representation of the evil that dwells inside man.

I doubt I'll rewatch season 3 ever again, but I'll still hold on dearly to seasons one, two, and especially the movie.
Click to expand...

These are the kinds of criticisms I have as well - excluding the Dougie stuff, I genuinely enjoyed that storyline. The season did spend a lot of time on stuff that was not actually interesting to watch and a chore to watch at times even, but I gave a lot of it the benefit of the doubt that it would serve something important in the end and a lot of it just didn't and actually wasn't even addressed in the slightest in these last two hours, so there's plenty to criticise about this, but I did like various chunks of it a lot too. It's just a mixed bag, just like David Lynch always is.

People always wanted to know what Twin Peaks would've been like if Dave was given free rein, well now we know what that would be like.
 
H

HashtagLapsed

Member
WriterGK said:
So I have been thinking. I don't care that some people think this wasn't a lot of "Twin Peaks"
For me it was a rollercoaster ride that was amazing and wonderfull. Are there question that haven't been answered? Sure, regular TV creators without the genius and abstract mind of David Lynch do that to, so no worries.
For me it was Magnificent. Kyle Machlachan should win all the awards. He is a true genius, even as BOB/Bad Coop.
Janey-E then. Naomi Watts rocks it out of the Park. Just terrific her acting of a seriously strong , beautiful and well organised woman. How she handled those Loan Sharks; A+
Then there is the Vegas people. Jim Belushi, Robert Knepper and Amy Shiels as Candie. What a pleasure to see nice and soft Mobsters. They really developped into great characters by there amazing acting. Jim delivered what Vaughn failed to do in TD.
Let's not forget Dana Ashbrook as Bobby Briggs. He sure as hell got mature. Episode 11 was just terrifying and amazing. He and The Honking Lady will go down to the Twin Peaks Hall of Fame.
Yeah sure there is enough cliff hanger for season 4 like Audrey and Red among others. But for me it's fine either way. This was soo much better than what I accepted. Only negative would be Tammy. But Laura Dern, David Lynch and R.I.P Legends Miguel Ferrer and Catherine Coulson where all fantastic. David Lynch directs but boy does he Act. Just wauw.
And Episode 17 just amazing. I have to come up with a new scale for that other then A+ and 10/10. Easily among Six Feet Under, Sopranos and Mad Men my favourite tv shows followed by Carnivale, The Wire and The Leftovers.
For me there was still a lot of going on in Twin Peaks but other stuff and cities where amazing to. And my so much Laura Palmer in the last two episodes what a joy.
I love you all so much. Thnx for the great experience. I wish more people would watch these 3 seasons and FWWM. I am not that good as most others with explaining so much theories but I truly loved it here.
Twin Peaks The Return for me will get an A+ / 10/10
Click to expand...

I love you too, friend, and I completely agree.

I haven't ever experienced anything like this from this type of media. Every week being anxiety about having no idea what is to come. It was a really wild ride and after so many years waiting, it was a real privilege to share watching it with all of you.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
This was probably my favorite work by Lynch. Getting more Lynch for me was just as great as getting more Twin Peaks.
 
B

BTA

Member
Don Draper's Hat said:
So what was with Ashley Judd and the humming and her husband?

Did Steven kill himself? And if so why?

Who was Billy?

Who was Andy's picnic basket for?

What was up with Jesse?

Who or what was in Sarah Palmer's kitchen?

How's Annie?
Click to expand...

At least regarding Steven- he and Gersten were talking about him having done something to "her". Which I assume is Becky, and this is actually a murder-suicide? But we never saw anything about her being hurt/killed, nor did Bobby seem affected by it in 17, so it might have just been the incident with her shooting at Gersten's door and the thing he did was just cheating on her, I dunno.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
In these first two, I think it's interesting that Mr. C and his goons and their gross cabins exist in close proximity to school principals and lawyers and dinner parties. It's a very potent illustration of that darkness living with and having access to the world that we consider to be stable and above all that.
 
B

big ander

Member
This gave me such a horrible nightmare. I lit a person on fire and had to go on the run, endless empty highway like Carrie and Richard's trip, I encountered Mr C.

All thanks to Twin Peaks.
 
H

HashtagLapsed

Member
That HULK article on Vulture is really good.

.....we may have to live with Sheryl Lee's final haunting scream resounding in our brains for the rest of time, along with the words of a whisper we'll never hear. Not knowing is the very nature of Twin Peaks. It is practically what defines it.
Click to expand...

I really agree with the article in that The Return ended up seeming more like Lost Highway than anything else.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
gun_haver said:
haha, it has some good stuff in it, but I think Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet are waaaaay better than this, though.
Click to expand...

There are so many individual scenes in season 3 that I love. For me this and MD are really close. I need to rewatch Blue Velvet. I rate Eraserhead high as well.
 
F

Frost_Ace

Member
Mmmmm what if the sex scene we witnessed was the one later Tulpa Diane tells Gordon about? We see another Diane just before. Maybe it was the past?
 
L

Levito

Banned
The best take I've read is that Twin Peaks--the whole series was actually a commentary on abuse and the impact it has on the victim/those around them. Laura found some peace in an alternate timeline after Cooper tried to change everything, but you can't totally erase abuse. That's why when Laura went back to the Palmer house and old memories came flooding back in, cause you can't totally erase abuse. (Tremond and Chalfont were also the names of the owners of the Palmer house, so the lodge spirits are still involved)


This also works for Audrey. After Mr. C raped her, she was trapped and that experience ruined her.


Maybe it's not the resolution that some folks wanted but I think it's probably a lot more thoughtful than explanations to 'mysteries'. Starting to warm up to it more.
 
S

Slaythe

Member
big ander said:
This gave me such a horrible nightmare. I lit a person on fire and had to go on the run, endless empty highway like Carrie and Richard's trip, I encountered Mr C.

All thanks to Twin Peaks.
Click to expand...

Sigh

Don't fucking start. It's Cooper not Richard.

We barely got out of "Bob Cooper" and people are still somehow thinking that was a thing despite bad Cooper having his own distinct personality and Bob never controlling him.

Levito said:
The best take I've read is that Twin Peaks--the whole series was actually a commentary on abuse and the impact it has on the victim/those around them. Laura found some peace in an alternate timeline after Cooper tried to change everything, but you can't totally erase abuse. That's why when Laura went back to the Palmer house and old memories came flooding back in, cause you can't totally erase abuse. (Tremond and Chalfont were also the names of the owners of the Palmer house, so the lodge spirits are still involved)
Click to expand...

Lol.

Amazing peace she found with a fucking corpse on her couch.
 
F

Frost_Ace

Member
Levito said:
The best take I've read is that Twin Peaks--the whole series was actually a commentary on abuse and the impact it has on the victim/those around them. Laura found some peace in an alternate timeline after Cooper tried to change everything, but you can't totally erase abuse. That's why when Laura went back to the Palmer house and old memories came flooding back in, cause you can't totally erase abuse. (Tremond and Chalfont were also the names of the owners of the Palmer house, so the lodge spirits are still involved)


This also works for Audrey. After Mr. C raped her, she was trapped and that experience ruined her.


Maybe it's not the resolution that some folks wanted but I think it's probably a lot more thoughtful than explanations to 'mysteries'.
Click to expand...
Mr. C raped Audrey?
 
G

gun_haver

Member
Levito said:
The best take I've read is that Twin Peaks--the whole series was actually a commentary on abuse and the impact it has on the victim/those around them. Laura found some peace in an alternate timeline after Cooper tried to change everything, but you can't totally erase abuse. That's why when Laura went back to the Palmer house and old memories came flooding back in, cause you can't totally erase abuse. (Tremond and Chalfont were also the names of the owners of the Palmer house, so the lodge spirits are still involved)


This also works for Audrey. After Mr. C raped her, she was trapped and that experience ruined her.


Maybe it's not the resolution that some folks wanted but I think it's probably a lot more thoughtful than explanations to 'mysteries'. Starting to warm up to it more.
Click to expand...

yeah, but Laura's alternate life seemed to involve her killing some man by shooting him in the head and leaving him to rot in her living room, and working at a shithole diner where the customers grope the waitresses so...doesn't really seem like a respite.
 
B

BTA

Member
Vectorman said:
I say one thing about Lynch that we can all agree on: He's still such a pervert and the ladies in his shows all have to face every horrific shit that is thrown their way. Lol at Tammy still being way different than her book character as well.
Click to expand...

Joqu said:
I do find it funny how much we're focusing on Lynch here, myself included, when as far as we're aware this season has been just as much Frost's baby unless Lynch made some crazy changes while shooting the thing, and I highly doubt he did. I mean, Frost had just as much of say in the matter if we're talking about things like the way this season has ended.

I guess he's always going to get less recognition, whether it's blame or praise.
Click to expand...

Agreed regarding Frost- having not much experience with Lynch outside of this, I imagine it's easier to point to his works for similarities than things Frost has worked on?

I have to wonder mainly about Tammy still. It's not even that she was different as much as she... didn't really have anything that showed her character in the show? Is that because she's more just Frost's character for the book(s)? And they didn't want to pin too much down on her given that the books might be changed/edited post-filming? Hmm.
 
H

HashtagLapsed

Member
Slaythe said:
Sigh

Don't fucking start. It's Cooper not Richard.

We barely got out of "Bob Cooper" and people are still somehow thinking that was a thing despite bad Cooper having his own distinct personality and Bob never controlling him.
Click to expand...

Fairly sure identity and concepts of identity are fairly integral to this season. Attachment to identity might be too, given how much the DoppelCoop/Coop/Dougie/Richard/? has managed to needle so many.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
hydruxo said:
I was thinking that too. Also the way Diane covers up Cooper's face was odd.
Click to expand...

They were both unsure they were with the right version of the other one, and during sex she slowly realizes this isn’t her Coop. Even if it isn’t her rapist, Richard still wears the same face as Mr.C.

So he passed the kiss test, but not the sex test. So she ghosted.

Seeing that other Diane was so chilling, what a world of uncertainty these characters end up in.
 
G

gun_haver

Member
Kensation said:
Honestly, the way he has just blankly staring at her didn't help.
Click to expand...

it even plays the doppleganger cooper music for a few seconds during that sex scene

honestly i dunno what the fuck was going on there. i'll need to take a second look at 18, i think maybe they combined somehow into one.
 
W

Wrestlemania

Banned
gun_haver said:
yeah, but Laura's alternate life seemed to involve her killing some man by shooting him in the head and leaving him to rot in her living room, and working at a shithole diner where the customers grope the waitresses so...doesn't really seem like a respite.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Cooper created a shitty life for her and made it even shittier by taking her “home” which results in her realising what happened to Laura and now having to live with that knowledge.
 
S

Slaythe

Member
HashtagLapsed said:
Fairly sure identity and concepts of identity are fairly integral to this season. Attachment to identity might be too, given how much the DoppelCoop/Coop/Dougie/Richard/? has managed to needle so many.
Click to expand...

He refers to himself as Special Agent Dale Cooper and retains all of his memory while not knowing who Richard and Linda are.

Can't be more straight forward than that as to who he is.

People calling him Richard are trying to make this more complicated than it is for no reason.

I can understand people trying to say Mr C and Cooper merged, and this is perfectly fine.

But Mr C was NEVER Bob, and the "new" Dale isn't Richard either.
 
F

Flipyap

Member
Vectorman said:
Lol at Tammy still being way different than her book character as well.
Click to expand...
You can only blame Frost for that. The book was written after the show, and without Lynch's input.

blame space said:
can someone smarter than me explain Cooper's face overlay on the post orb punching/birthing vagina head Diane reveal?
Click to expand...
It might have been a coping mechanism because the ball punching scene was the dumbest shit I've ever seen and I needed to explain it out of existence, but I interpreted it as a reflection on a TV screen as Cooper watched an over-the-top fictionalized version of the events, as if Twin Peaks became its own show-within-a-show.
The pacing, editing style, just everything about what was being shown suddenly shifted its tone to become like a pulpy action serial. It's really hard for me to accept a scene where a goofy cartoon gimmick character punches the Bob Ball to death as taking place in any version of Twin Peaks's "reality."

Kinda felt like a leftover from an unused idea. That accidentally leaked scene draft has the camera focusing on a TV as "we enter the film and it becomes the reality."
ERA9YgY.png
Click to expand...
 
B

Blader

Member
JoJoShabadoo said:
Also, one of my biggest disappointments, which cemented itself in episode 8, is that the surreal elements from the show now turned into something with rules. Something that indisputably exists. It feels like Lost, or something, rather than a surreal representation of the evil that dwells inside man.
Click to expand...

Man, if there are rules around this, I would love to hear them!

If anything, I think this season upended a lot of what we understood about the rules from the previous seasons/FWWM, introducing new worlds, new spirits, new ways that all these things interact with each other.
 
L

Levito

Banned
Slaythe said:
Lol.

Amazing peace she found with a fucking corpse on her couch.
Click to expand...

Relax, friend.

gun_haver said:
yeah, but Laura's alternate life seemed to involve her killing some man by shooting him in the head and leaving him to rot in her living room, and working at a shithole diner where the customers grope the waitresses so...doesn't really seem like a respite.
Click to expand...

Well, exactly--I said "some respite"; despite the fact that Laura was saved from that particular night still, carries Trauma with her.


Frost_Ace said:
Mr. C raped Audrey?
Click to expand...

Early in the series Doc Hayward said Mr. C visited Audrey when she was in the Hospital. Then we learned Richard was Mr. C and Audrey's child. Diane also said Mr. C raped her.(this is obviously an activity Mr. C and BOB are all about)

So yeah.
 
H

HashtagLapsed

Member
Slaythe said:
He refers to himself as Special Agent Dale Cooper and retains all of his memory while not knowing who Richard and Linda are.

Can't be more straight forward than that as to who he is.

People calling him Richard are trying to make this more complicated than it is for no reason.

I can understand people trying to say Mr C and Cooper merged, and this is perfectly fine.

But Mr C was NEVER Bob, and the "new" Dale isn't Richard either.
Click to expand...

Mr C had memories Cooper had too, remember. And Tulpa Diane had the memories of Diane. And so on. I am not trying to say the Cooper from the final episode is actually a whole other character exactly. But I wouldn't shout down people who may express that idea either.
 
K

Kensation

Member
Blader said:
Man, if there are rules around this, I would love to hear them!

If anything, I think this season upended a lot of what we understood about the rules from the previous seasons/FWWM, introducing new worlds, new spirits, new ways that all these things interact with each other.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in the first two seasons, it's like we were on the inside looking out at all these weird cosmic things. In season 3, we're on the outside WITH all these cosmic things looking into the "normal" stuff. If that makes sense.
 
davepoobond

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Levito said:
Relax, friend.



Well, exactly--I said "some respite"; despite the fact that Laura was saved from that particular night still, carries Trauma with her(this is obviously an activity Mr. C and BOB are all about).




Early in the series Doc Hayward said Mr. C visited Audrey when she was in the Hospital. Then we learned Richard was Mr. C and Audrey's child. Diane also said Mr. C raped her.

So yeah.
Click to expand...

Mr. C also called him "my boy" or something after he died in the zapper
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
So who do we think was talking to Mr. C then on the phone, telling him that he was gonna go back in? Who was trying to murder him in the first place? Jeffries? Fake Jeffries? MIKE? Judy/The Experiment?
 
davepoobond

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
jett said:
How did they do the new scenes with young Laura? Was it just a double?
Click to expand...

They used old footage and combined new footage. I think the newer footage was with the same actor except she was masssively silhouetted so you couldn't tell her age in those shots
 
J

Joqu

Member
BTA said:
Agreed regarding Frost- having not much experience with Lynch outside of this, I imagine it's easier to point to his works for similarities than things Frost has worked on?

I have to wonder mainly about Tammy still. It's not even that she was different as much as she... didn't really have anything that showed her character in the show? Is that because she's more just Frost's character for the book(s)? And they didn't want to pin too much down on her given that the books might be changed/edited post-filming? Hmm.
Click to expand...

I don't think a lot of people here are familiar with Frost's work outside of this, I know I'm not. I can really only compare it to the Secret History book and his episodes in the original run.

I do feel like the expanded mythos we saw this season really had that Frost flavour to them for one. It's actually something I'm not all that fond of, I prefer that stuff a bit more small scale, but there's no going back now! And I imagine he was more responsible for things like ensuring consistency with the original series, especially the season 2 references. Other than that it's hard for me to pinpoint specific story elements to either one of them, but that's okay with me, it's a collaboration. But there's no way especially major business like the ending isn't something they both cooked up.
 
T

therealminime

Member
jett said:
How did they do the new scenes with young Laura? Was it just a double?
Click to expand...

I think it might have actually been Sheryl Lee in heavy makeup and a wig, but it could definitely have been a double too.

They did that really well. The combo of old and new footage and shooting from a distance, it was very effective.
 
S

Solo

Member
After sleeping on it my mind is still a clusterfuck of thoughts and emotions. I need the Bluray stat - this show is going to look amazing on Blu.
 
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