FWWM's ending is my canon true ending at this point.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
FWWM's ending is my canon true ending at this point.
DataStream
Member
When Cooper wakes up looking for Diane his tone is very much that of old Dale. On rewatching, I really don't see him as being different in this world as much as extremely serious because it is uncharted territory and he puts his guard up much like he did when he entered the black lodge in the S2 finale.
I read his actions and demeanor more as him becoming further detached as things don't seem to be going his way. After visiting Carrie and expecting Laura Palmer, seeing the horse and the dead body, his sense of urgency increases and on the drive he is pretty much singularly focused on getting to TP as fast as he can. Once they get to the Palmer residence he realizes that things have changed much more deeply than he expected and lets his guard down as he seems to concede that he has not accomplished his goal. He is totally lost after finally finding his way home and is unsure if his home even exists anymore.
I read his actions and demeanor more as him becoming further detached as things don't seem to be going his way. After visiting Carrie and expecting Laura Palmer, seeing the horse and the dead body, his sense of urgency increases and on the drive he is pretty much singularly focused on getting to TP as fast as he can. Once they get to the Palmer residence he realizes that things have changed much more deeply than he expected and lets his guard down as he seems to concede that he has not accomplished his goal. He is totally lost after finally finding his way home and is unsure if his home even exists anymore.
Turin Turambar
Member
Knowing Lynch, I suspect 17 was designed to be like it is in a conscious manner: Long awaited meeting! Evil is defeated! The hero returns! And kisses his lady! Surprise twist with time traveling where he fixes all that was bad in the world!
It was kind of cartoony, if you think about it.
So I think it was just pure setup so the low punch of episode 18 was more shocking.
It was kind of cartoony, if you think about it.
So I think it was just pure setup so the low punch of episode 18 was more shocking.
Heh. Amazing.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Good show. Whole season kicked ass. Episode 8 in particular.
afternoon delight
Member
Fluffhead14
Member
Has anyone on the Internet attempted a somewhat coherent plot synopsis of the series?
In general I'm feeling like this entire show was a bunch of bullshit thrown at the wall but I'd love to read a plot summary of the main events that made sense.
In general I'm feeling like this entire show was a bunch of bullshit thrown at the wall but I'd love to read a plot summary of the main events that made sense.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
11,3 meg gif incoming.
Lmfao
Laura and Audrey are both dreamers. Audrey goes insane after the trauma she experiences post-Season 2 and invents a world for herself where she's miserable and confused, but at least she hasn't been raped by the person she liked and forced to carry his bastard child for the rest of her life. Charlie mentions the "little girl who lives down the lane," and threatens to "end her story." Charlie is a figment of Audrey that wants her to wake up. She's not ready then, but when she runs to him and asks him to "get me out of here," she wakes up, likely in an institution of some sort. She's staring in a mirror because the dream is a reflection of what she could have been, what she would have preferred to be. She is a dreamer who dreams and then lives inside the dream, and then she wakes up. Charlie mentions that she's not the first person whose story he's ended, which means that Audrey may have escaped into many other dreams before, with Charlie and his role as an awakening force being perhaps the only consistent factor in them.
Laura dies and as she dies she dreams. Caught between life and death, she doesn't dream of a life for herself where she turned out differently, but of a world where she never existed to begin with. She didn't rewrite her tragedy, she retconned it and lived far far away from the possibility of that ever happening. Her life is miserable in Odessa, but at least she isn't Laura Palmer, raped and murdered by her own father. She is dead, yet she lives in the dream.
Cooper wants to save Laura Palmer. The ARM tells him that it's the story of the little girl who lives down the lane, which may be a catch-all term for dreamers who dream and live inside their dream. Directly after the ARM tells this to Coop, Leland asks him to find Laura. This is how Cooper knows she's in a dream. He and Diane go 430 miles away from Twin Peaks to a massive power station of some kind, and know that crossing it will take them somewhere else, and that everything will be different.
They go to the motel and Cooper gets him room key from an unseen force. Diane sees herself - Linda, waiting to merge with her in the dream. They go into the motel room and have sex. Literally, an intercourse between two worlds, mentioned by The Arm in FWWM. But that sex is not the intercourse he referred to - what's really happening here is Cooper becomes one with Richard, and Diane becomes one with Linda. Richard has more in common with Mr. C than Diane was ready for, and while she has sex with him she realizes that once again, she's been forced into sex with a Cooper who was not her Cooper. She can't take it, covers his face until it's over, and leaves while Cooper sleeps. Maybe she left before their place between worlds took them into Laura's dream, or maybe she escaped into Laura's dream to make a new life for herself there. It doesn't matter.
Cooper wakes up, now fully in Laura's dream. He finds Judy's, the restaurant Carrie Page works at. Judy being the evil inside Sarah, and the evil Mother herself, it makes sense that she would never be far from Laura, even in a dream. Cooper finds Carrie and takes her back home, but because Laura has dreamt up a reality where she and the Palmers never existed, that house belongs to the Tremond's. Just as names and faces we see in our waking lives follow us into our dreams, the woman she meets in FWWM who gives her the painting sticks with her, and becomes a part of her dream. Cooper's confusion, the names of Tremond/Chalfont, and the appearance of the house itself finally cause something to snap in Laura's dream, and she remembers her mother calling her name, waking her up for school as she did so many times. She remembers everything, screams as her tragedy comes back to her, and the lights fade and she wakes up. But where Audrey had some shred of a life to wake up to, Laura has nothing. Coop, existing now solely as an entity in Laura's dream, goes into nonexistence with her.
Coop is like a dreamer because he dreams about saving Laura, even though it may not be a dream we see. He follows this dream so passionately, and believes in its possibility so fervently, that he follows Laura into her own dream. He is like the dreamer who dreams and then lives inside their dream, but he is not the dreamer itself. Laura is the dreamer. Season 3 happened, and so did seasons 1 2 and FWWM. Those characters are still real, went through what they went through, and will continue to live their lives now that Cooper is gone.
It's just a change, not an end.
Laura dies and as she dies she dreams. Caught between life and death, she doesn't dream of a life for herself where she turned out differently, but of a world where she never existed to begin with. She didn't rewrite her tragedy, she retconned it and lived far far away from the possibility of that ever happening. Her life is miserable in Odessa, but at least she isn't Laura Palmer, raped and murdered by her own father. She is dead, yet she lives in the dream.
Cooper wants to save Laura Palmer. The ARM tells him that it's the story of the little girl who lives down the lane, which may be a catch-all term for dreamers who dream and live inside their dream. Directly after the ARM tells this to Coop, Leland asks him to find Laura. This is how Cooper knows she's in a dream. He and Diane go 430 miles away from Twin Peaks to a massive power station of some kind, and know that crossing it will take them somewhere else, and that everything will be different.
They go to the motel and Cooper gets him room key from an unseen force. Diane sees herself - Linda, waiting to merge with her in the dream. They go into the motel room and have sex. Literally, an intercourse between two worlds, mentioned by The Arm in FWWM. But that sex is not the intercourse he referred to - what's really happening here is Cooper becomes one with Richard, and Diane becomes one with Linda. Richard has more in common with Mr. C than Diane was ready for, and while she has sex with him she realizes that once again, she's been forced into sex with a Cooper who was not her Cooper. She can't take it, covers his face until it's over, and leaves while Cooper sleeps. Maybe she left before their place between worlds took them into Laura's dream, or maybe she escaped into Laura's dream to make a new life for herself there. It doesn't matter.
Cooper wakes up, now fully in Laura's dream. He finds Judy's, the restaurant Carrie Page works at. Judy being the evil inside Sarah, and the evil Mother herself, it makes sense that she would never be far from Laura, even in a dream. Cooper finds Carrie and takes her back home, but because Laura has dreamt up a reality where she and the Palmers never existed, that house belongs to the Tremond's. Just as names and faces we see in our waking lives follow us into our dreams, the woman she meets in FWWM who gives her the painting sticks with her, and becomes a part of her dream. Cooper's confusion, the names of Tremond/Chalfont, and the appearance of the house itself finally cause something to snap in Laura's dream, and she remembers her mother calling her name, waking her up for school as she did so many times. She remembers everything, screams as her tragedy comes back to her, and the lights fade and she wakes up. But where Audrey had some shred of a life to wake up to, Laura has nothing. Coop, existing now solely as an entity in Laura's dream, goes into nonexistence with her.
Coop is like a dreamer because he dreams about saving Laura, even though it may not be a dream we see. He follows this dream so passionately, and believes in its possibility so fervently, that he follows Laura into her own dream. He is like the dreamer who dreams and then lives inside their dream, but he is not the dreamer itself. Laura is the dreamer. Season 3 happened, and so did seasons 1 2 and FWWM. Those characters are still real, went through what they went through, and will continue to live their lives now that Cooper is gone.
It's just a change, not an end.
Master_Funk
Member
Really interesting to see that although the opinion of the finale is divided among fans, it seems to have near universal critical acclaim from critics.
No way I would have thought this initially after watching the finale.
No way I would have thought this initially after watching the finale.
There's not much to look at honestly. What happened at the end of episode 17 and all of 18 is what Cooper was supposed to do the moment he stopped talking to the Fireman and tried to leave the lodge. Literally every episode in between was about how Mr. C screwed up the body exchange and how Cooper got lost and Mr. C spent time trying to kill him and trying to get his coordinates to obviously Twin Peaks.
They could've skipped the whole evil coop angle and made a 2-3 hour movie that was episode 1, parts of 2, half of 17, and all of 18 and we would be left with a great follow up to FWWM.
i loved this entire season btw, but it seems the satisfaction of the ending I got had nothing else to do with 98% of what I watched this summer.
Daffy Duck
Member
See you on the other side.
His entire scene at the house was masterclass. You can see the barely suppressed panic as he tries to hold himself together.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Seriously. It's a credit to Mark, David, and Kyle that Cooper being shook is still so deeply unsettling, 25 years later.
Turin Turambar
Member
I agree mostly with this, it has several tidbits I also thought while I was watching the episode.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
I wonder how long it's going to be until Kyle tweets something again. That's still his most recent tweet. :lol
I loved how patient and intentionally frustrating Cooper's trip to and meeting with Laura was. Everything at her place was attempting to delay them, from the phone ringing, packing, grabbing a coat, the dead guy, being hungry, and later being followed on the road, it was all so dream-like. The best part was arriving at her place in Twin Peaks, and hearing the home owner talking to her partner off-screen. His voice is so faint and muffled that we never hear the specifics.
The final two episodes were great. I think the revival was a massive artistic success.
The final two episodes were great. I think the revival was a massive artistic success.
11,3 meg gif incoming.
Ahahah 10/10 gif
I think part of Laura's dream is the way it is because Mother also influenced it. I think the Palmer's were supposed to still live in Twin Peaks in the same house, just without a daughter. Obviously Dale felt the dreamers (Judy AND Laura) would have an awakening and mother would be neatralized if Sarah Palmer was reunited with her long lost daughter; however, Mother had such a control over Sarah that she virtually removed herself from the equation within Laura's dream to make sure Cooper and Laura would be lost in existence.
I think this explains the panic and fear in Coopers final line. He WANTS it to be the wrong time period. He wants this error to boil down to a miscalculation and not him losing to Judy like Chet and Phillip. He was supposed to have all the answers and he went too far and was defeated. He was hoping it was just timing, not his own failure to foresee Judy interfering.
He got stuck.
Thank you for this, I think it really ties up a lot of what happened in 18 and how it links with 16. The thought of Cooper falling into a dead girl's dream is pretty evocative.
Kinda like with Audrey and Charlie
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I wonder what was up with the Jumping Man going down the stairs after Coop and Mike went up to meet Jeffries.
I enjoyed the ride overall, but I do agree somewhat - in a good 18 episode series, there was a stellar 12 episode show striving to get out.
Could have said the same about S2 overall though and over the years I've come to appreciate even the rough episodes just to spend time with the characters.
I really enjoyed this season, but I have no idea what the final episode was about. Seemingly I missed hearing Laura's mum call her name at the end, which made Laura's scream completely inexplicable.
Still, best season of a show I've seen in a long time. Jim Belushi hamming it up was amazing.
Still, best season of a show I've seen in a long time. Jim Belushi hamming it up was amazing.
The more I ponder the ending of this show, I don't think a season 4 will even fix what is happening in the show. The ending to me obviously represents how Cooper will never stop giving up saving Laura Palmer and how Laura Palmer is meant to be killed or not exist at all. It's not a "evil will always win" type of story but a "Laura is meant to die and nothing Dale does can reverse that."
I fear that even if we do get a Season 4 it will end up exactly like this again. The only upside to the ending now compared to Season 2 is that BOB is now dead. Yes Cooper is lost and his future may be debated but where we are at now is Laura is gone and it's obviously she can't come back and now BOB is dead.
I don't think Mother still existing in the world is much of a cliffhanger or hookup. I think Mother/Judy's actions were amplified by the presence of BOB. With BOB gone I don't think Twin Peaks will have as many problems as they did the past 25 years.
I fear that even if we do get a Season 4 it will end up exactly like this again. The only upside to the ending now compared to Season 2 is that BOB is now dead. Yes Cooper is lost and his future may be debated but where we are at now is Laura is gone and it's obviously she can't come back and now BOB is dead.
I don't think Mother still existing in the world is much of a cliffhanger or hookup. I think Mother/Judy's actions were amplified by the presence of BOB. With BOB gone I don't think Twin Peaks will have as many problems as they did the past 25 years.
i'm not so sure that was coop. rather some kind of amalgamation of all the coops we've known, or whatever... seemed to have the detachment and tone of mr. c but he obvs wasn't evil (his "heroics" at Judy's Diner).
but i like the idea of him wanting to just get the damn thing over with. heh
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I think it might have been implying that Cooper was fucked at that point. It was like the dopplegangers running around the Lodge in the original finale.
Issa trap
Is Coop even aware of Judy being with Sarah Palmar? He's only heard Judy once from Jeffries. Also it seems just so crazy that both of Laura's parents were both taken over by BOB and Judy. I always thought whatever was going on with Sarah Palmar was because she was a medium but nope she's been controlled by Judy. But then why does BOB as Leland not care about Sarah and knock her out sometimes then if Judy was already in her in the original seasons?
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I think I like Episode 18 divorced from the rest of the season. Like, I like the eerie bleakness of episode 18 and it goes well with other aspects of the season like episode 8 and Mr. C parts. I'm not sure I like it in how it drops all other story threads and characters, but at the same time makes me wish the rest of the season was like episode 18. Cooper (Richard?) navigating this familiar yet strange world of Earth 2 was really cool.
I care about Annie as much as I cared about Dianne in the return. She didn't matter to me. They were both just tools for Cooper to have reasons to enter/exit the lodges. I think the whole ending reveal of Diane was the worst thing about this whole season. Naido turning into Diane and the sex scene could have both been removed and the character not ever being there and it would've changed nothing for me.
I don't think Judy was inside of her in Seasons 1 and 2. Judy is some sort spiritual embodiment of evil and suffering, so I sort of assume that it finds her after Leland's death. Her misery and suffering, combined with her ability to sort of channel spirits and act as a medium, led Judy to her. I don't think the Frogmoth from Part 8 was Judy, but I think it was Bob or some sort other Lodge spirit.
edit: I agree that I don't really care about Annie, but her complete disappearance this season is something that should at least be acknowledged, even if the ultimate explanation for it is swept aside.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yeah seems like he let the real culprit get away. When Jeffries told Mr. C he already met Judy, he mean the Jumping Man and not the woman who let him in the room.
It was always the plan for Coop to go after Judy. Dumb retcon.
I wish certainly we'd spent one more episode or two like this with Cooper.
Not the 'cherry pie, winking, thumbs up' Dale Cooper that many inferred people wanted. Just the competent, aged man trying to put it all together and potentially failing pretty much that we got in 18.
As much as Dougie ultimately grew on me, I would have like episode 16 to have hit around episode 14 and a few episodes to breathe in Cooper's return before him being lost again to time and an alien place
.
Not all. But a little bit more
I think we are supposed to assume that Dale disappeared much like Chet and Phillip once he got too close to Judy or tried removing her from the equation. Judy knew what he was doing by trying to save Laura. So Judy removed Laura and Dale from existence in the world. She won.
11,3 meg gif incoming.
This is godtier haha
Turin Turambar
Member
Something I learned from David Lynch with this season I didn't know before, it's that he is big fan of painting, as art. Several scenes and characters from the season are inspired actually from some paintings.
Knowing that, I imagine he is the type of person who associates strongly 'Art' with painted art, even if there are more types of art. And you don't have explanations or clear meanings in a painting, not in surrealism or abstract paintings, nor in other styles. It's just there, to be appreciated and judged by the viewer. No explanations out of the work, and not even explanation inside the work itself.
You can see how he applies that philosophy to his films and series.
Knowing that, I imagine he is the type of person who associates strongly 'Art' with painted art, even if there are more types of art. And you don't have explanations or clear meanings in a painting, not in surrealism or abstract paintings, nor in other styles. It's just there, to be appreciated and judged by the viewer. No explanations out of the work, and not even explanation inside the work itself.
You can see how he applies that philosophy to his films and series.