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[Slaythe]

I can't be the only one (because it's literally spelled out in the episode...) that thought Cooper meeting all those characters at once and not having time to interact with any of them felt like when you're having a nice dream and then you briefly wake up then fall back asleep and it's a different dream you're going back to.

That's what it felt like.

Cooper wakes up, leaves everyone, goes back into the dream and go meet Jefferies the Teapot before time travelling.

The fact he had no time with them felt very deliberate, and not "rushed" IMO. Like, that was the point.

 

[liquidtmd]

I have no problem with the ending or this season provided there is a season 3 but if it just ends like this then fucking hell I'll be annoyed.

FTFY to reflect '91 sadness

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Am I the only one that thought much of Cooper's behaviour this episode was reminiscent of evil Cooper?
And actually how come BOB was still in the doppelganger, I thought he had been removed already?

Oh my head...

The way Cooper said "I am with the FBI" to the waitress felt very Mr. C.

 

[Mogwai]

Any particular meaning behind deep frying those guns?

 

[Jokab]

I can't be the only one (because it's literally spelled out in the episode...) that thought Cooper meeting all those characters at once and not having time to interact with any of them felt like when you're having a nice dream and then you briefly wake up then fall back asleep and it's a different dream you're going back to.

That's what it felt like.

Cooper wakes up, leaves everyone, goes back into the dream and go meet Jefferies the Teapot before time travelling.

The fact he had no time with them felt very deliberate, and not "rushed" IMO. Like, that was the point.

My only question is where the dream starts though. Did he never wake up from being Dougie?

Any particular meaning behind deep frying those guns?

I guess he just didn't want them to work anymore after he left.

 

[Rien]

On rewatch, I'm 100% at the point where I think 18 is far superior to 17.

I am at that point on my first watch already. 18 is great and i wish there was more of that. Loved the sex scene as well.

 

[Intheflorsh]

the real question is how did Coop get his FBI pin back after the confrontation at the sheriff's station

Did he have it before he stepped through the basement door? If not, I assume it's just there as part of the dream reality.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

"In such a characteristically modern work what matters is not so much the plot, but a series of situations, some of which can be portayed statically, through tableaux, set-pieces, depth psychology, and others dynamically, through linked episodes, stream of consciousness."

Reading a commentary on "The Culture of Modernism"

By Irving Howe for class and that stood out. Was this what Lynch was going for?

This is how I like to watch things

 

[Scrawnton]

Any particular meaning behind deep frying those guns?

I think it's sopposed to be nonsensical. It's Coolper acting a certain way because he knows he's in a dream. Same reason why he didn't freak out over the dead guy in Carrie's house. He knows none of the world is real and it's just a hangup to prevent him from getting Carrie Page back to Twin Peaks.

 

[Death Metalist]

so what are they gonna call season 4 assuming it happens?

Twin Peaks The Return: The Return

Infinite Peaks. There is always a dead girl, there's always an FBI agent, there's always a town.

 

[liquidtmd]

Did he have it before he stepped through the basement door? If not, I assume it's just there as part of the dream reality.

Indeed, him walking through the basement door with quite literally 'a key to the past'

Having his old pin would be a reasonable jump

Infinite Peaks. There is always a dead girl, there's always an FBI agent, there's always a town.

Have Twin Peaks go full Metal Gear Solid 2 with the SSS

 

[The God]

I can't be the only one (because it's literally spelled out in the episode...) that thought Cooper meeting all those characters at once and not having time to interact with any of them felt like when you're having a nice dream and then you briefly wake up then fall back asleep and it's a different dream you're going back to.

That's what it felt like.

Cooper wakes up, leaves everyone, goes back into the dream and go meet Jefferies the Teapot before time travelling.

The fact he had no time with them felt very deliberate, and not "rushed" IMO. Like, that was the point.

I...didn't get that feeling at all

 

[Vectorman]

Infinite Peaks. There is always a dead girl, there's always an FBI agent, there's always a town.

Oh god you're right. This is Bioshock Infinite haha. Elizabeth = Laura

 

[Zach]

This attempt at discounting the views of people who disagree with you as "stans" is poisonous, toxic, and frankly pathetic. Accept that people like different things or you're destined for a life of resentment and disappointment.

I can only imagine that the impulse that drove you to this post is a deep seated fear that you having an opinion is not enough. You didn't like certain parts of the finale, but there was this itch, this sense that maybe some people did. But would that mean you're wrong? You missed something? They're better than you? Smarter than you? Are you somehow lesser than?

Nah dude. People just like different things. You can share what you like and don't like and I can share what I like and don't like, but don't dismiss opinions as some kind of fawning.

We all see the fear in you, and it's not going to change anyone's mind. It's just sad.

Ice cold.

(And deserved.)

 

[BorkBork]

I can't be the only one (because it's literally spelled out in the episode...) that thought Cooper meeting all those characters at once and not having time to interact with any of them felt like when you're having a nice dream and then you briefly wake up then fall back asleep and it's a different dream you're going back to.

That's what it felt like.

Cooper wakes up, leaves everyone, goes back into the dream and go meet Jefferies the Teapot before time travelling.

The fact he had no time with them felt very deliberate, and not "rushed" IMO. Like, that was the point.

Yup. That's the feeling I got too. It's of someone who already knows everything and all the interactions that will happen but some other force is pushing them away and onto something new even though part of them yearns to stay. Cooper is sincere in saying that he hopes he can meet each one of them again one day, like one would trying to return to a good dream but knows it's probably not going to happen, not in the same way anyways.

 

[120v]

Any particular meaning behind deep frying those guns?

look man, this is texas. we all carry guns and deep fry em. then ride our horses to work

 

[thenexus6]

Damn this show wrecked me... so many questions.. There has to be a fourth season surely??

I think this season had alot of ups and downs, one thing for sure though is my excitement of sitting down every Monday night to watch it knowing i had NO idea what I was about to see.

I found Diane and Coop being together weird, and man Audrey? Hello? How's Annie? Coop didn't even acknowledge Albert in the station which was weird.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I can't be the only one (because it's literally spelled out in the episode...) that thought Cooper meeting all those characters at once and not having time to interact with any of them felt like when you're having a nice dream and then you briefly wake up then fall back asleep and it's a different dream you're going back to.

That's what it felt like.

Cooper wakes up, leaves everyone, goes back into the dream and go meet Jefferies the Teapot before time travelling.

The fact he had no time with them felt very deliberate, and not "rushed" IMO. Like, that was the point.

Agreed. Other than Diane, that part was perfect. I mean, there's literally a giant floating Cooper head superimposed on the screen saying we live inside a dream lol

 

[Vectorman]

I can't be the only one (because it's literally spelled out in the episode...) that thought Cooper meeting all those characters at once and not having time to interact with any of them felt like when you're having a nice dream and then you briefly wake up then fall back asleep and it's a different dream you're going back to.

That's what it felt like.

Cooper wakes up, leaves everyone, goes back into the dream and go meet Jefferies the Teapot before time travelling.


The fact he had no time with them felt very deliberate, and not "rushed" IMO. Like, that was the point.

It's called Lynch giving the audience a cocktease and then says 'Onto Lynch's Wild Ride'.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Ok before I dive into the theories and analysis everywhere

Where has this idea that Judy is Sarah came from? Cos I never got that :/

Also all of this talk about dreams and time travel that some people here seem to be talking about??

I'll be honest I took much of it at face value on first watch tbh but this will need a rewatch and wikis now etc

 

[Flipyap]

My only question is where the dream starts though. Did he never wake up from being Dougie?

I'm not convinced that he ever truly left the lodge. Maybe in part 18, but even that gets hazy.

Laura!

 

[friskykillface]

Feel like it's cooper remembering that it's happening again
Repeat
Repeat
Repeat
Until the end of time

Cooper is stuck X SHOOK

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I love that no one was shocked at Lucy just blasting a motherfucker like that. Hawk glances at her gun with concern for a moment and that's about it.

 

[Static Veins]

Just watched the finale. We're going to be dissecting this thing for the next 25 years.

Put me in the camp that enjoyed 18 more than 17. Lynch can create a dreamscape like no other and that entire episode once Coop and Diane hit 430 miles was as dreamy as they come. The long night ride to Twin Peaks was so relaxing. Alongside the horrifying final moments that was probably my highlight.

Story-wise, I'm pretty sold on the theory that no matter how hard Cooper tries to stop it, Laura will always die as history corrects itself, and episode 18 was Cooper finding Laura in her own dream and it ended with her waking up to reality and nothingness (as she is dead). But like I said, I think we'll be dissecting this for a while before anything can remotely be settled upon.

Sheryl Lee's scream will be haunting my dreams tonight.

 

[robochimp]

Would've preferred if they had gone back to the original idea of Audrey being Cooper's love interest, but whatever. The romance with Diane is just odd and makes no sense to me.

Coop and Diane was probably a thing just because Laura Dern was willing and able to do the show.

When it comes down to it Diane went through hell and back because of and for Cooper, their relationship isn't that out of place.

 

[grumpy]

Hehehe. I do feel this is accurate to how I'm feeling. I really did love those two episodes as hours of television, I just didn't want to see Cooper look so lost at the end after all we've been through. It's hard not to feel frustrated after something like that, man.

At the very least literally no one can accuse Frost and Lynch of taking the easy way with this. I'm sure they must have had at least some idea as to how many people they were gonna piss off with the way this season went. I only wonder if people back in 1991 felt exactly the same way as I do right now xD

And hey, at least we got to hear another scream by Sheryl Lee.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Personally, I see episode 18 as being inseparable from episode 16/17 in the same way that you couldn't have the s2 finale without the episodes leading up to it. The contrast in tone and weight is absolutely essential.

 

[Ashby]

At the very least literally no one can accuse Frost and Lynch of taking the easy way with this. I'm sure they must have had at least some idea as to how many people they were gonna piss off with the way this season went. I only wonder if people back in 1991 felt exactly the same way as I do right now xD

And hey, at least we got to hear another scream by Sheryl Lee.

Man, I can't even think of how fucking weird the end of season 2 would have been to audiences in 1991. I wish the end of this season felt even a 1/10 as strange.

 

[BlueLiquid]

When Cooper wakes up looking for Diane his tone is very much that of old Dale. On rewatching, I really don't see him as being different in this world as much as extremely serious because it is uncharted territory and he puts his guard up much like he did when he entered the black lodge in the S2 finale.

I read his actions and demeanor more as him becoming further detached as things don't seem to be going his way. After visiting Carrie and expecting Laura Palmer, seeing the horse and the dead body, his sense of urgency increases and on the drive he is pretty much singularly focused on getting to TP as fast as he can. Once they get to the Palmer residence he realizes that things have changed much more deeply than he expected and lets his guard down as he seems to concede that he has not accomplished his goal. He is totally lost after finally finding his way home and is unsure if his home even exists anymore.

This is my take on Cooper's behavior in Part 18 as well. Especially with...

The way Kyle delivered the line "What year is it?" got me so god damn shook

Same. He knows things have gone completely pear-shaped at that point.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

So, what was Laura Palmers mother in the end? I thought she was pretty cool when she took her face off and took a bite out of that guy.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Maybe the "merged" Cooper in the alternate world is cold but not quite as malicious because BOB has been removed from him? Just a thought.

 

[snausagesUK]

One of the problems I had with this season is how much lore stuff got poured into it.

For me at least it distracts from trying to work out what this series was about. I don't know what the Experiment is or any of that and I don't get the sense that Lynch cares either (I guess that stuff is Mark Frost stuff)

I liked TP season 3 but the Dougie stuff near ruined it. The Dougie scenes were so bad I can't see myself watching it again.

Otherwise episode 18 felt close to classic Lynch but 18 hours is far too long of a buildup for what it was

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Ok before I dive into the theories and analysis everywhere

Where has this idea that Judy is Sarah came from? Cos I never got that :/

Also all of this talk about dreams and time travel that some people here seem to be talking about??

I'll be honest I took much of it at face value on first watch tbh but this will need a rewatch and wikis now etc

Well, Cooper quite clearly time-traveled to 1989 to save Laura from the events in FWWM.

Like, that was the whole climax.

Sarah is evidently inhabited by some demon-spirit that is not BOB, and as the only new demon-spirit we've been semi-introduced to is Judy, that just seems like a plausible theory.

 

[uncblue]

This attempt at discounting the views of people who disagree with you as "stans" is poisonous, toxic, and frankly pathetic. Accept that people like different things or you're destined for a life of resentment and disappointment.

I can only imagine that the impulse that drove you to this post is a deep seated fear that you having an opinion is not enough. You didn't like certain parts of the finale, but there was this itch, this sense that maybe some people did. But would that mean you're wrong? You missed something? They're better than you? Smarter than you? Are you somehow lesser than?

Nah dude. People just like different things. You can share what you like and don't like and I can share what I like and don't like, but don't dismiss opinions as some kind of fawning.

We all see the fear in you, and it's not going to change anyone's mind. It's just sad.

The fear in me lol. I've enjoyed most of this season but the endless defense of Lynch is weird to me. You all can continue to try to make sense of this mess of a story but I'm done.

 

[Plasma]

FTFY to reflect '91 sadness

Well I was only 2 at the time and when I first watched Twin Peaks I was 20 and went into it fully knowing it ended on a cliffhanger. This though I dunno why do it at all if you aren't going to give some sort of closure? I didn't expect a big bow to be put on top of the series but episode 18 seemed like it was there just to set up a load of new things rather than to resolve anything either from the second season of the third.

I think it was made worse by episode 17 being so good I got so emotional when Coop reunites with Laura and then seeing Jack Nance again just sent me over the edge. Again it's not that I disliked it I really liked how wrong everything felt in episode 18, I was constantly on edge and when the lights when out and Laura screamed I got goosebumps. But it doesn't really matter if they don't make good on it in another season.

 

[snausagesUK]

Regarding lack of closure people should read what Lynch said about season 2s ending. Basically that closure just gives you an excuse to forget you saw the damn thing. This season was always going to end like this and likely won't have a follow up

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Well, Cooper quite clearly time-traveled to 1989 to save Laura from the events in FWWM.

Like, that was the whole climax.

Sarah is evidently inhabited by some demon-spirit that is not BOB, and as the only new demon-spirit we've been semi-introduced to is Judy, that just seems like a plausible theory.

Ok doke, yeah got all of that.

Just wondering if there was anything else that I'd missed that was more "concrete" I guess

 

[Rran]

Why is Cooper so different in Episode 18? It's not our real Coop, right? The way he talks and moves, it's nothing like it was in Episode 17.

Yeah, but it seemed like the closer he came to Twin Peaks, the more he resembled OG Cooper (e.g. his demeanor was significantly more amicable at Laura's house than when at the diner)... that had to be intentional, right??

 

[DJ Gunner]

Regarding Sarah/Judy. This, in my opinion, is the key to unlocking much of the mystery here.

The noise that the frogmoth makes in Ep 8 is the same noise that occurs the moment Laura vanishes from the FWWM timeline, and this occurs immediately after Sarah destroys the photo of Laura.

Mr. C makes it clear he is looking for what we assume to be the frogmoth symbol (black circle with tiny dog ears). The coordinates he searches for lead him to the white lodge with a destination on the screen of Sarah Palmer's house, that is then changed by the Fireman to the Sherriff's station.

These things, in addition to Jeffries telling Coop straight up "this is where you'll find Judy" before he goes back in time, and the girl in 1954 being the right age range to be Sarah, AND the shit we see when Sarah takes her face off- she's got to be Judy.

I feel like the answer, or more insight into what actually happens in those final moments of the finale is firmly rooted in the Lodge scenes/Audrey's scenes in other episodes. Because even as far back as the S2 finale, people in the lodge (Laura, specifically) make references to the fact that one moment they are not who they appear to be, but the next moment they are. Carrie is not Laura but she is. In what way, through a dream, a timeshift, or a reality divergence, we don't quite know, but the things she says about (paraphrasing here) being a long way from there (Twin Peaks?) and being too young to know what she was doing seem to directly reference being Laura. But then she doesn't recognize the town, or the house.

Maybe the Final Dossier will map the road, but I feel like we have the information scattered about in the episodes now.

 

[Slaythe]

Come on now guys, don't be surprised when we had this :


Pressed by the Los Angeles Times on whether he could deliver a conventional resolution to a mystery, Lynch lost his patience: “Closure. I keep hearing that word. ... As soon as a show has a sense of closure, it gives you an excuse to forget you’ve seen the damn thing.” For Lynch, the attraction of the serial form was precisely the freedom that it offered, even if momentary, from obligations like closure.

 

[Joqu]

At the very least literally no one can accuse Frost and Lynch of taking the easy way with this. I'm sure they must have had at least some idea as to how many people they were gonna piss off with the way this season went. I only wonder if people back in 1991 felt exactly the same way as I do right now xD

And hey, at least we got to hear another scream by Sheryl Lee.

Oh yeah, they knew what they were doing all right. I wasn't there in 1991, but I have to imagine what I'm feeling right now isn't too dissimilar. It does feel appropriate. And painful.

I've said this about Kyle, but Sheryl Lee deserves all of the awards too. I'm really pleased we got a healthy dose of her in the finale. Bit bummed there wasn't more Ray Wise though.

Spoiler

call for help

 

[liquidtmd]

Regarding lack of closure people should read what Lynch said about season 2s ending. Basically that closure just gives you an excuse to forget you saw the damn thing.

I see what he's saying in some respects, but I believe you can provide...a provocative closure and narrative resolution without necessarily just throwing out more and more questions

I really do wonder in an alt world we got a S2 where Lynch and Frost didn't solve who killed Laura Palmer. I really wonder want that would have been like.

For all the issues I have with S2, actually telling us who killed Laura wasn't one of them - it was a great springboard

 

[Wrestlemania]

The noise that the frogmoth makes in Ep 8 is the same noise that occurs the moment Laura vanishes from the FWWM timeline, and this occurs immediately after Sarah destroys the photo of Laura.

The sound when Laura vanishes in the woods is the one from the gramophone in episode 1. The frog moths don't make that sound.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Well I was only 2 at the time and when I first watched Twin Peaks I was 20 and went into it fully knowing it ended on a cliffhanger. This though I dunno why do it at all if you aren't going to give some sort of closure? I didn't expect a big bow to be put on top of the series but episode 18 seemed like it was there just to set up a load of new things rather than to resolve anything either from the second season of the third.

I think it was made worse by episode 17 being so good I got so emotional when Coop reunites with Laura and then seeing Jack Nance again just sent me over the edge. Again it's not that I disliked it I really liked how wrong everything felt in episode 18, I was constantly on edge and when the lights when out and Laura screamed I got goosebumps. But it doesn't really matter if they don't make good on it in another season.

I didn't really understand how people saw the original finale as a cliffhanger, and I don't really see how people see this one as a cliffhanger either. Cooper's reality being destroyed and replaced with one where he has already failed is even more conclusive than Cooper squaring off against cosmic evil and losing his soul.

 

[DJ Gunner]

The sound when Laura vanishes in the woods is the one from the gramophone in episode 1. The frog moths don't make that sound.

Drat, you're right. My mistake.should have rewatched 8 before making the post to be sure.

 

[Slaythe]

Lmao I love how we've become Frog moth experts over the course of the past 2 months.

 

[Scrawnton]

I haven't really seen this discussed but: was it a dead give away that Cooper was destined to disappear like Chet did in FWWM when the telephone pole outside of Carrie Page's house was number 6 with the numbers 324810 stickered into it? This is the third time those poles with the same numbers showed up.

 

[hamchan]

I will say that at least even if I'm not a big fan, episode 18 made me think and speculate on its meaning more than anything else this season.

Much better than for example, a guy sweeping for 5 minutes, where I get nothing from it.

 

[uncelestial]

It's definitely not a question of "when" in the very end, despite Cooper's last line. The car Coop is driving is pretty modern, as is the Valero they stop at, which is complete with modern-day gas prices. ($2.89) "Laura" is modern-day age, too, indicating she has aged the appropriate amount since then.

I'm really not feeling this "whose dream is it" stuff. If it's anyone's it's Judy's or The Fireman's, but it's not Laura's or Audrey's or Cooper's.

It seems far more likely that Cooper concluded the "Fireman's Dream" (i.e. sequence of events manipulated by The Fireman) during the superimposed-Cooper-face sequence, and ended up in a reality manipulated by Judy - by "crossing over" with Diane (at which time they became Richard and Linda) in search of a confrontation with Judy. Everyone who was ever on Judy's trail has disappeared and now Cooper has disappeared from the nice reality in Twin Peaks into this alternate dimension. That's all that is meant by the "dream" stuff.

I am not sure how the 1989 intervention really connects with the reality he arrives in after crossing over, but who knows, maybe the final dossier will make that more clear.

 

[sphagnum]

Continue what though? This is a different reality/dream

Cooper and Laura trying to stop Judy?