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[EGM1966]

Whelp, watched first four episodes again today after watching 17/18. It's all a lot more obvious now what's going on (or at least my poor brain feels it is).

Episode 2 in particular with it's dialogue that implies time loops and changing fates and the fact much of those early scenes of Cooper with Laura in the lodge seem to be happening congruent to his attempts to prevent her fate and return her home really adds up.

Going to watch through until the wrap again then see where my heads at with the various threads.

Obviously there's no doubt Lynch/Frost took a delight in loading the show with a fair amount of dead ends or ultimately (so far) inconsequential stuff but I feel the core element of Cooper's return and his odd, timeless interaction with Laura Palmer does hold together thematically and even narratively.

Seems though Annie's either suffered a complete deletion retcon or at minimum we're seeing a timeline where Diane is waiting for him outside lodge not Annie - TBH there's a number of areas I feel Lynch has pushed retcons. Wish it was possible to get clear picture of what he liked/disliked with Season 1 and 2 and what's driving these (assuming I'm right) althoug I don't see either Lynch or Frost ever festing up with that level of clear detail on their creative progress and how S3 in 2017 differed from what they may have thought back when S2 wrapped.

 

[Plasma]

Wait what the fuck that can't be it.

 

[Scrawnton]

All this talking reminds me; were there ever ANY hints on what Laura told Dale in the Black Lodge on the season opener, again during episode 18, and again during the credits?

It seems that after his plan to save Laura failed and he was sent to the lodge at the beginning of 18 she said something to him that changed his mindset. He was different the moment he left the lodge and approached Diane. Whatever she said is the key to all of this and it's a shame Lynch dangled that in our faces three times and never told us what was said.

 

[liquidtmd]

Wait what the fuck that can't be it.

Welcome to stage 1

 

[bounchfx]

the best part of endings like this is reading everyones thoughts and interpretations on what actually happened, all the theories are such fun to read and think about. I'd take that over a happy 'everything is wrapped up' ending any day. many people are way more thoughtful about this stuff and pick up way more clues and hints than I ever would so its like a bunch of light bulbs going off one after another when people share the things they noticed that I missed, and attempt to piece them together in ways where I can nod and go 'yeah, I can see that, could make sense. that's rad'.

there's some great shit out there

 

[benicillin]

So many so eager to say Cooper lost, if this was the S2 finale you'd all think he was never coming back too.

 

[BTA]

I'll agree that the Annie stuff is pretty weird.

I can see it being them trying to reclaim season 2 stuff they were forced into doing but if that's the case I wish they had at least mentioned it in the book when they changed Norma's backstory? It was really weird to see that mentioned with nothing about Annie and then have Annie still exist in the show, if only briefly.

 

[Death Metalist]

Welcome to stage 1

 

[hughesta]

All this talking reminds me; were there ever ANY hints on what Laura told Dale in the Black Lodge on the season opener, again during episode 18, and again during the credits?

It seems that after his plan to save Laura failed and he was sent to the lodge at the beginning of 18 she said something to him that changed his mindset. He was different the moment he left the lodge and approached Diane. Whatever she said is the key to all of this and it's a shame Lynch dangled that in our faces three times and never told us what was said.

I don't think there are any hints of it, and I don't think we'll ever know, but I imagine she said something similar to "we are like the dreamer, who dreams, and lives inside the dream."

 

[Kadayi]

In truth even if there were the option I'd struggle to see how a 4th Season would work. Coop basically changed the past when he intercepted Laura, despite losing her before he could deliver her home (as evinced by her dead body disappearing on the shore and Peter happily going fishing) but of course, Coop is unaware and continues his quest. We are deep into Butterly Effect territory by the conclusion of the show.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

11,3 meg gif incoming.

Hahah, oh man. Almost as good as this season.

 

[The God]

I feel like Cooper's awakening was rushed. They could've cut the Dougie saga in half along with some of those stories we'll never get answers to and instead have Cooper wake up a bit earlier. Yeah his mission was urgent but I think him not getting even a brief chance to catch up on the time he lost was a missed opportunity.

Dude doesn't even acknowledge Albert in 17

 

[VistraNorrez]

I like the introduction of the infinity symbol. For me the original series plus FWWm create a loop. This new season creates another loop, but both loops are connected. They over lap around FWWM.

One if my worries with the new season was that the original loop would be broken. Instead they created an interconnected second one. It fits.

As much as I would like more resolution on some characters and situations I wonder where it could go. Would it take away or add?

If Lynch/Frost feel like making more, I will be there though. They justified my trust.

 

[PizzaFace]

For me, people really took the "but who is the dreamer?" scene far too literally, I don't think that's a question that is supposed to have an actual answer

 

[Vectorman]

I feel like Cooper's awakening was rushed. They could've cut the Dougie saga in half along with some of those stories we'll never get answers to and instead have Cooper wake up a bit earlier. Yeah his mission was urgent but I think him not getting even a brief chance to catch up on the time he lost was a missed opportunity.

Dude doesn't even acknowledge Albert in 17

Ikr. You literally had the entire cast of people that you wanted together and Lynch sends Coop into the Twilight Zone not even a minute. The scene didn't even have time to breathe. He just went ahead to let's go to the boiler room now.

 

[sphagnum]

In truth even if there were the option I'd struggle to see how a 4th Season would work. Coop basically changed the past when he intercepted Laura, despite losing her before he could deliver her home (as evinced by her dead body disappearing on the shore and Peter happily going fishing) but of course, Coop is unaware and continues his quest. We are deep into Butterly Effect territory by the conclusion of the show.

Easy way for them to continue on without relying on the old actors since the population of the town has apparently changed.

 

[120v]

I don't think Judy was inside of her in Seasons 1 and 2. Judy is some sort spiritual embodiment of evil and suffering, so I sort of assume that it finds her after Leland's death. Her misery and suffering, combined with her ability to sort of channel spirits and act as a medium, led Judy to her. I don't think the Frogmoth from Part 8 was Judy, but I think it was Bob or some sort other Lodge spirit.

well if the frogmoth wasn't judy it still means something was fucked with sarah the entire time regardless

 

[jett]

Would've preferred if they had gone back to the original idea of Audrey being Cooper's love interest, but whatever. The romance with Diane is just odd and makes no sense to me.

 

[Joqu]

I know we're still dissecting the finale here, but I just gotta say it was nice to see MIKE be all ominous again during his Fire Walk With Me chant. It was only for a brief moment, but that's actually something I had been waiting for this entire season! Al Strobel has still got it.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

So many so eager to say Cooper lost, if this was the S2 finale you'd all think he was never coming back too.

Coop lost in s2. Everything he did in this season just drove the nail in further.

 

[Kelsdesu]

"In such a characteristically modern work what matters is not so much the plot, but a series of situations, some of which can be portayed statically, through tableaux, set-pieces, depth psychology, and others dynamically, through linked episodes, stream of consciousness."

Reading a commentary on "The Culture of Modernism"

By Irving Howe for class and that stood out. Was this what Lynch was going for?

 

[hughesta]

well if the frogmoth wasn't judy it still means something was fucked with sarah the entire time regardless

There's nothing that proves the woman from 1954 was Sarah.

 

[BorkBork]

Would've preferred if they had gone back to the original idea of Audrey being Cooper's love interest, but whatever. The romance with Diane is just odd and makes no sense to me.

I think Annie would have slotted in perfectly instead of Diane, especially post curtain call. Having two kindred spirits cross over and become strangers would be even more heartbreaking. Making Diane a tulpa only would also have been great and would have fitted in with her being artificial (tulpa/recorder) across the entire series. That choice was probably the only major misstep for me in the finale. But maybe Lynch didn't like Graham or loved Dern too much. Did he even create Annie the character?

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

There's nothing that proves the woman from 1954 was Sarah.

Were the screencaps of the frogmoth/jumping man proboscis inside of Sarah's opened face debunked?

 

[Rran]

I think part of my frustration is that I really enjoyed last night's episodes as a premise than a conclusion if that makes any sense lol

i need* more.


*want

 

[Just_myles]

It's just a change, not an end.

Dude. Thank you very much for that breakdown. Seriously, I really appreciate it.

 

[hughesta]

Were the screencaps of the frogmoth/jumping man proboscis inside of Sarah's opened face debunked?

no but I just don't think there's evidence that proves it enough for me to buy into it without reservation. It's certainly not an unlikely outcome, I just don't think we have enough to say for sure.

edit: your welcome myles! glad you liked it <3

 

[Scrawnton]

For me, people really took the "but who is the dreamer?" scene far too literally, I don't think that's a question that is supposed to have an actual answer

If anything, I think one of the Lodge beings is the dreamer, whether that be the Fireman or Judy. I believe Judy to be the dreamer more since the Fireman is constantly fighting against her.

I personally don't think the ending episode takes place in a dream by Laura Palmer. I think Dale tried changing the past but Mother/Judy wasn't having any of it. Instead of Mother letting Dale win and Laura having a happy life in Twin Peaks, she moved both of them far away and changed their identities as a result. Yes Cooper was smart enough to see past the dream world (not enjoying the coffee?! Pshh) but he still thought returning Laura or Carrie Page (the final page?!) to Twin Peaks would end it all, but Dale wasn't expecting Mother/Judy to erase the Palmers from existence period.

There's no world left for Laura and Dale within Judy's dream. I don't think Judy/Mother is inherently evil, but she does not want the presence of Laura, and now Dale, within her dream.

 

[EdmondD]

I wonder what was up with the Jumping Man going down the stairs after Coop and Mike went up to meet Jeffries.

I was wondering about that too. I think Jumping Man did something to mess with Coop. Last time they showed JM he had Sarah's face and Leland's face.

 

[Joqu]

Yeah, during the latter Diane stuff I couldn't help but think I would've preferred this with Annie, and whether it was actually written with her in mind but that they couldn't get Heather Graham or something. It probably wasn't actually conceived that way though.. I just find it baffling Cooper didn't even bring her up for a single line of dialogue.

 

[cyba89]

I think one thing is for certain: No one expected the third season to be anything like THIS when it was first announced.

 

[grumpy]

Those two episodes were probably my two most favourite hours of tv, of all time... yet a part of me feels sickened by them and I can't shake this feeling of me wanting to punch Lynch and Frost square in their fucking, elderly mouths.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Strange transparency layer from the window in the car after the hotel scene before going to Judy's. Probably a layering mistake, but it is pretty obvious when you look for it. Didn't see it mentioned.

 

[TheKeyPit]

Finished Ep 17 and 18.

Oh boy, I loved 17 and then 18 happened...

Why? Why? Why?

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

no but I just don't think there's evidence that proves it enough for me to buy into it without reservation. It's certainly not an unlikely outcome, I just don't think we have enough to say for sure.

edit: your welcome myles! glad you liked it <3

If those screencaps were legit, then we've literally seen the frogmoth inside of Sarah, just as we saw it enter the girl. And then there's the horse connection with the neighing and the Woodsman's chant.

It is certainly possible that Sarah and the girl aren't the same person, but I don't see any reason to assume that given that there is evidence to the contrary.

 

[liquidtmd]

Would've preferred if they had gone back to the original idea of Audrey being Cooper's love interest, but whatever. The romance with Diane is just odd and makes no sense to me.

Without big inferences, it's odd.

In my head cannon, Mr C goes to Diane as she said around 95. He raped her. He took her to the conveinience store and created her Tulpa. There's a physic link between Diane and her Tulpa but ultimately it's weak and intermittent.

Diane stays in the store and gets transported to the Lodge, reunites with Coop and...has a romance for a time? Then she goes crazy, loses her eyes and then banishes herself to room above the purple sea / becomes Naido.

Meantime the Tulpa walks the earth helping Mr C occasionally. At some point in '98, Mr C realises creating a Tulpa of himself may be handy in preventing being pulled back in. He creates Dougie, giving him to Tulpa Diane to look after. She says 'fuck this', sets him up with her half sister Janey-E and then is done with it?

No idea. Interpretation. Most of it is unexplained.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

The ending was fucking perfect

 

[BTA]

I think Annie would have slotted in perfectly instead of Diane, especially post curtain call. Having two kindred spirits cross over and become strangers would be even more heartbreaking. Making Diane a tulpa only would also have been great and would have fitted in with her being artificial (tulpa/recorder) across the entire series. That choice was probably the only major misstep for me in the finale. But maybe Lynch didn't like Graham or loved Dern too much. Did he even create Annie the character?

Someone should correct me (because as always, I only got into the show starting a month ago and haven't really absorbed enough about the original show's production) but she was created to deal with Donna's actress (who was dating Kyle) not wanting Cooper to actually get involved with Audrey, right? I could see her being ignored due to her not being intended to begin with but... even that feels weird?

 

[oatmeal]

Strange transparency layer from the window in the car after the hotel scene before going to Judy's. Probably a layering mistake, but it is pretty obvious when you look for it. Didn't see it mentioned.

The entire show is full of VFX fuck ups. It's baffling.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I don't know what just happened?
I guess there is time travel or alternate dimensions or something?
So are we getting a season 4?

Am I the only one that thought much of Cooper's behaviour this episode was reminiscent of evil Cooper?
And actually how come BOB was still in the doppelganger, I thought he had been removed already?

And what about the stuff with Audrey, Gerry and Sarah?

Oh my head...

 

[Joqu]

Those two episodes were probably my two most favourite hours of tv, of all time... yet a part of me feels sickened by them and I can't shake this feeling of me wanting to punch Lynch and Frost square in their fucking, elderly mouths.

Hehehe. I do feel this is accurate to how I'm feeling. I really did love those two episodes as hours of television, I just didn't want to see Cooper look so lost at the end after all we've been through. It's hard not to feel frustrated after something like that, man.

 

[Kadayi]

Easy way for them to continue on without relying on the old actors since the population of the town has apparently changed.

Continue what though? This is a different reality/dream

 

[SictorVullivan]

So after watching it last night I was pissed off about how it ended.

Having a whole day at work to think about it, has made me come round to it so much more, definitely an ending to piece of media that will stick with me for many years to come.

Spoiler

Season 4 please.

 

[Master_Funk]

Still cannot think about anything else. An ending has never stuck with me as much as this. It's probably because I love twin peaks but still.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Ikr. You literally had the entire cast of people that you wanted together and Lynch sends Coop into the Twilight Zone not even a minute. The scene didn't even have time to breathe. He just went ahead to let's go to the boiler room now.

Lol its the anti Game of Thrones.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Has anyone on the Internet attempted a somewhat coherent plot synopsis of the series?

In general I'm feeling like this entire show was a bunch of bullshit thrown at the wall but I'd love to read a plot summary of the main events that made sense.

I feel like I need this as well

I've deliberately not kept up with theories etc online and people here are talking all sorts I'm not following D:
Where's this time travel chat coming from? Apart from last episode I wasn't getting that??

 

[cb1115]

the real question is how did Coop get his FBI pin back after the confrontation at the sheriff's station

 

[Plasma]

I have no problem with the ending or this season provided there is a season 4 but if it just ends like this then fucking hell I'll be annoyed.

 

[SictorVullivan]

so what are they gonna call season 4 assuming it happens?

Twin Peaks The Return: The Return

 

[TheKeyPit]

Why is Cooper so different in Episode 18? It's not our real Coop, right? The way he talks and moves, it's nothing like it was in Episode 17.