Lol they all die/disappear or sit around a table with Gordon yelling at them.
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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
Lol they all die/disappear or sit around a table with Gordon yelling at them.
Is he crying because he knows they are going to be wiped from existence?
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I mean, they're all up against a cosmic horror
Intheflorsh
Banned
I did my laundry, barely.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
What really makes the ending really, really bleak is that is isn't the plan devised by The Fireman.
In the first episode The Fireman tells Cooper "It is in our house now, listen" and plays the sounds that can be heard when Laura disappears at the ending of Part 17.
Considering we see the Jumping Man going down the stairs in the Convenience Store, and it is related to Sarah and the Frogmoth from Part 8, I'm pretty sure that the Jumping Man somehow entered the White Lodge and sabotaged the plan. At this point I'm not entirely sure if The Fireman or his friend are alive, or if what happened is just a temporal setback (with Laura apparently remembering everything), or if Cooper's really fucked again.
Interesting enough, Jeffries mentioned that Judy can be found in 8. Considering how Cooper's return was predicted with the number 15 on that machine he used to get back, I'm willing to say that the Frogmoth we saw in Episode 8 is Judy. Also, the Palmer's house has an 8 in it's address, which also gives credit to the theory she has Judy inside of her (plus that weird antenna she showed when she took off her face).
It's an incredible finale all in all. I hope we get another movie at least. I'm sad that Gordon, Albert and Coop didn't have some banter together, specially with Albert's actor passing away, but I guess it does serve as a way to point out that these things are as ephemeral as a dream.
I guess Ike the Spike's deal was that he was a weird assassin. I really did think there was something about his bandaged hand though. Speaking of which, I guess the TP police will just assume Richard is gone so the poor mom of that runned-over kid will never know that his killer died like a chump haha.
Thinking back to his farewell to Janey-E just kills me now. You've made my heart so full.
Dammit Cooper. You should have listened to her and stayed.
y'know, I'm not sure what my interpretation is yet, but there's certainly no wiping from existence in it. showing the new Dougie scene in episode 18 makes no sense that way
Tony Redgrave
Member
I still think it's all going according to the Giant's plan. At least Laura is alive in this dream/reality/timeline and she's "the one", they definitely need her around.
Intheflorsh
Banned
His hand was bandaged because Coop squeezed off a chunk of flesh, that's all.
darkwing-buck
Member
I want Lynch to go left field and do a sticom with the Jones Family. Mitchum Brothers included.
One gave up information, the other hands over folders well, another ended up in a different dimension, and the final one turned into a humidifier.
I don't know what you mean at all, that is a decent success rate.
friskykillface
Banned
should've known it all was too good to be true right here
HE LOOKS SO HAPPY
It's all real, Cooper just wanted to get extra credit when he had an A
Just take the A Cooper and live
I made this post without really thinking about it in that thread about anime franchises people think Hollywood could get right and of course it would never happen but it does bring to mind that I wish I saw more from Lynch that featured young people. I guess Twin Peaks Season 1 and 2 is the closest we'll ever get. There's something uniquely horrifying that comes with being a child/teen that I think Lynch's sensibility would jibe with really well.
Brian_FETO
Banned
There's so much discussion about interpretations in just 24 hours. I can't wait to see what people dig up after mass re-watchings/dissections (especially with the whole "events out of order" deal)
episode 17 is only even remotely interesting as a counterpoint to the utterly brilliant episode 18. in context it seems like an absurd fantasy of what constitutes a "return" before the genuinely chilling, nightmarish one presented to us at the end. truly astonishing piece of television, i didn't want to move for a while after it finished.
i've always liked and been charmed by twin peaks but consider it in the middle of lynch's work - i kinda dreaded that it was being brought back due to its meme/cult status and wished someone would finance another film more akin to inland empire. so i'm stunned at how incredibly good this has been both as a lynch work and as a television series. it's the first masterpiece in this form since the wire finished.
i've always liked and been charmed by twin peaks but consider it in the middle of lynch's work - i kinda dreaded that it was being brought back due to its meme/cult status and wished someone would finance another film more akin to inland empire. so i'm stunned at how incredibly good this has been both as a lynch work and as a television series. it's the first masterpiece in this form since the wire finished.
Net_Wrecker
Member
OK, after marinating for a day, I feel like I have to get some thoughts out of me before I can go back to launching hot one liners (because, like James, Net_Wrecker's cool, he's always been always cool)
On The Return as a whole: Like any challenging work, it leaves you with a lot of emotions wrestling in your head. Not just the final 2 parts, but the entire piece now that we've seen it. Am I completely satisfied with this season as a S3 to Twin Peaks? Not exactly. While in many ways it pushes an atmosphere, themes, characters, and places we've come to love from the original series forward 25 years, it's also very much its own thing with its own flair (or, sometimes, lack thereof). In this respect, I can 100% understand where a fan of the original would not be on board with this series, much in the same way a LOT of diehards were not on board with Fire Walk With Me in 1992. Can I imagine a more traditional S3 of Twin Peaks? Of course. Do I wish we got a hell of a lot more classic Dale Cooper? Absolutely. Do I wish the series had a structure more conducive to linear storytelling as the OG seasons did, allowing for surreal breaks and emotional beats that leave a bigger impact on you? Yes, yes, yes. I've been hugely positive on the season overall, but I don't want to give the impression that I absolutely love every decision made here. This is not a perfect 18 hour piece, and there is a void that was not filled because Frost, and especially Lynch are different artists now than they were 30 years ago, and are doing different things.
HOWEVER, that is not to say I am disappointed with The Return. On the contrary, I found most of it intensely engaging on a level I haven't felt with a TV series in years. While I am a big Twin Peaks fan, I'm also a big David Lynch fan, and there is a lot in The Return to love from that perspective. This man has gone a decade without making a feature length movie, and came back with a vengeance pulling from every era of his life in order to make what could potentially be seen as a huge thesis statement on his view of things, particularly after "Jiao Dai" was spoken BY HIM as Gordon Cole in relation to what is now a central antagonistic force in the Twin Peaks universe. This has to relate, in some way, to the non-stop comedy of errors all season long, with plans going awry time and time again, including the climactic moment of the season where Coop seemingly finds himself stuck on Jeffries' infinity loop by his own hand. Whatever this season was, it was special. At turns horrifying, enchanting, bewildering, convoluted, meandering, and intense.
Above all, it's unique. Nowhere else on TV am I going to get a Part 3. Nowhere else am I going to get a creator twisting his beloved protagonist into a shell of himself and still managing to create an emotional high such as Part 11. Nowhere else am I going to get a Part 14, a Part 16, a Part 17, a Part 18. Incredible, incredible, incredible. Then there's Part 8, which almost seems distant and quaint in a post-17/18 world, where tempers are flaring and minds are thoroughly broken, but make no mistake, Part 8 is an all time great episode. There are moments littered all over this thing that will never be replicated again on television because who in their right mind greenlights this stuff?
I say all that to say this: With or without a S4, I am satisfied. That was an 18 hour, 4 month vortex of creative energy. In five years when I think of Twin Peaks, is The Return the first image I'll see? Probably not. There's something timeless about OG Twin Peaks. The quirky qualities, the writing, the music, the warmth, the light surreal touches, and Cooper as the driving force of the show. The S2 finale is one of my favorite things ever. Does that mean The Return is not a worthy addition to this saga? Absolutely not. Much in the same way Fire Walk With Me has not been the first thing on my mind when I recall TP, neither will The Return, but they're both incredible dives into the dark, dark ideas at the core of the show, and at the core of the creators.
On this thread: From moment 1, there's been a feeling that some have been downplaying the praise as Lynch fanboys losing sight of his failings, or falling victim to hyperbole, or whatever, and it's annoying. I'm not going to go back through 2 OTs and thousands of posts to pick fights and call people assholes, but there have definitely been more than a few posts displaying asshole tendencies, at the very least (and if you're feeling a type of way right now, it was probably you. Yes you, with all that salt in your veins). To these people I say- Get a grip. Open your eyes to the fact that other can earnestly enjoy something you don't, and find meaning in something you can't. That doesn't mean anyone thinks you're dumb, it's just means it's not for you. it's possible to discuss what you didn't like about the season without attacking the people who did. Lynch operates on emotion, sometimes putting sequences together purely to stimulate something in you, disregarding narrative logic to take you to a dream place and express ideas abstractly. This will not hit everyone the same way. He knows this. You should know this. It's OK to not like this. We've been here before. If Lynch makes something else, we'll be here again.
With that said, I've enjoyed every page of this journey. I feel lucky to have been a part of it, and the Twin Peaks summer of 2017 is not a TV moment I'll soon forget. I haven't been this invested in a series since The Wire was airing. Seriously, think of all the super fans who died in the 26 years since Laura bid Coop farewell. Think of all the actors involved with the show who didn't get to see this through to the end, even people who were a part of The Return. This is special. Despite North Korea ratcheting up the fuckery, despite living through what's already one of the worst US presidencies in history, despite the world seemingly going crazy and reverting back to outwardly tribal, conservative, and idiotic values, we got 16 weeks of Twin Peaks on Showtime with total creative control by Mark Frost and David Lynch. Damn good TV.
On The Return as a whole: Like any challenging work, it leaves you with a lot of emotions wrestling in your head. Not just the final 2 parts, but the entire piece now that we've seen it. Am I completely satisfied with this season as a S3 to Twin Peaks? Not exactly. While in many ways it pushes an atmosphere, themes, characters, and places we've come to love from the original series forward 25 years, it's also very much its own thing with its own flair (or, sometimes, lack thereof). In this respect, I can 100% understand where a fan of the original would not be on board with this series, much in the same way a LOT of diehards were not on board with Fire Walk With Me in 1992. Can I imagine a more traditional S3 of Twin Peaks? Of course. Do I wish we got a hell of a lot more classic Dale Cooper? Absolutely. Do I wish the series had a structure more conducive to linear storytelling as the OG seasons did, allowing for surreal breaks and emotional beats that leave a bigger impact on you? Yes, yes, yes. I've been hugely positive on the season overall, but I don't want to give the impression that I absolutely love every decision made here. This is not a perfect 18 hour piece, and there is a void that was not filled because Frost, and especially Lynch are different artists now than they were 30 years ago, and are doing different things.
HOWEVER, that is not to say I am disappointed with The Return. On the contrary, I found most of it intensely engaging on a level I haven't felt with a TV series in years. While I am a big Twin Peaks fan, I'm also a big David Lynch fan, and there is a lot in The Return to love from that perspective. This man has gone a decade without making a feature length movie, and came back with a vengeance pulling from every era of his life in order to make what could potentially be seen as a huge thesis statement on his view of things, particularly after "Jiao Dai" was spoken BY HIM as Gordon Cole in relation to what is now a central antagonistic force in the Twin Peaks universe. This has to relate, in some way, to the non-stop comedy of errors all season long, with plans going awry time and time again, including the climactic moment of the season where Coop seemingly finds himself stuck on Jeffries' infinity loop by his own hand. Whatever this season was, it was special. At turns horrifying, enchanting, bewildering, convoluted, meandering, and intense.
Above all, it's unique. Nowhere else on TV am I going to get a Part 3. Nowhere else am I going to get a creator twisting his beloved protagonist into a shell of himself and still managing to create an emotional high such as Part 11. Nowhere else am I going to get a Part 14, a Part 16, a Part 17, a Part 18. Incredible, incredible, incredible. Then there's Part 8, which almost seems distant and quaint in a post-17/18 world, where tempers are flaring and minds are thoroughly broken, but make no mistake, Part 8 is an all time great episode. There are moments littered all over this thing that will never be replicated again on television because who in their right mind greenlights this stuff?
I say all that to say this: With or without a S4, I am satisfied. That was an 18 hour, 4 month vortex of creative energy. In five years when I think of Twin Peaks, is The Return the first image I'll see? Probably not. There's something timeless about OG Twin Peaks. The quirky qualities, the writing, the music, the warmth, the light surreal touches, and Cooper as the driving force of the show. The S2 finale is one of my favorite things ever. Does that mean The Return is not a worthy addition to this saga? Absolutely not. Much in the same way Fire Walk With Me has not been the first thing on my mind when I recall TP, neither will The Return, but they're both incredible dives into the dark, dark ideas at the core of the show, and at the core of the creators.
On this thread: From moment 1, there's been a feeling that some have been downplaying the praise as Lynch fanboys losing sight of his failings, or falling victim to hyperbole, or whatever, and it's annoying. I'm not going to go back through 2 OTs and thousands of posts to pick fights and call people assholes, but there have definitely been more than a few posts displaying asshole tendencies, at the very least (and if you're feeling a type of way right now, it was probably you. Yes you, with all that salt in your veins). To these people I say- Get a grip. Open your eyes to the fact that other can earnestly enjoy something you don't, and find meaning in something you can't. That doesn't mean anyone thinks you're dumb, it's just means it's not for you. it's possible to discuss what you didn't like about the season without attacking the people who did. Lynch operates on emotion, sometimes putting sequences together purely to stimulate something in you, disregarding narrative logic to take you to a dream place and express ideas abstractly. This will not hit everyone the same way. He knows this. You should know this. It's OK to not like this. We've been here before. If Lynch makes something else, we'll be here again.
With that said, I've enjoyed every page of this journey. I feel lucky to have been a part of it, and the Twin Peaks summer of 2017 is not a TV moment I'll soon forget. I haven't been this invested in a series since The Wire was airing. Seriously, think of all the super fans who died in the 26 years since Laura bid Coop farewell. Think of all the actors involved with the show who didn't get to see this through to the end, even people who were a part of The Return. This is special. Despite North Korea ratcheting up the fuckery, despite living through what's already one of the worst US presidencies in history, despite the world seemingly going crazy and reverting back to outwardly tribal, conservative, and idiotic values, we got 16 weeks of Twin Peaks on Showtime with total creative control by Mark Frost and David Lynch. Damn good TV.
darkwing-buck
Member
Still thinking wtf on that scene haha their was a freaking AK47 on the floor as well
Tony Redgrave
Member
Btw I love how not only the persona but the very concept of agent Cooper has embraced impermanence and become so fragmented that the original Coop has literally turned into nothing more than a time-travelling White Lodge (?) agent whose only purpose is to stop the Black Lodge's influence in the world.
We literally had good Coop, bad Coop, Dougie Coop and lastly what seemed merged/transient Coop. We event have a part of Coop living happily with his family, if they still exist that is.
We literally had good Coop, bad Coop, Dougie Coop and lastly what seemed merged/transient Coop. We event have a part of Coop living happily with his family, if they still exist that is.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Top of her class at Langley.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
And a dynamite smile
So I'm leaning towards the idea that Laura is the dreamer, especially with lines like "Laura is the one". I mean, she hears her mother call for her at the end of Part 18 and then screams, maybe waking up from her dream? Maybe she's waking up the day after she was supposed to die?
Discotheque
Banned
Damn good post Net Wrecker. Echoes my sentiment about this one for the most part
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
To add to my last post, Julee Cruise's song at the end of Part 17 just shows that what's about to happen is tragic. The last time she had appeared (chronologically) was when Maddy died. This could be another death in some way.
I wondered if they would address if Maddy was a doppelganger during this season but she wasn't brought up either, which makes James' singing that song even more hilariously out of place...Just Youuuuuuu......AND IIII.
stuminus3
Member
I thought that from 16, when he wakes up and seems to know everything and directly addresses MIKE. Together with the Diane romance there's clearly things about what Agent Cooper has been up to in the last 25 years that we don't know.
Unless of course everything about Dougie/Super Cooper in S3 is just the power fantasy of some dreamer or other...
I didn't mind the ending. 18 wasn't as fun to watch as some of the best episodes of the series but I think once they arrive in the Twin Peaks and we get that destablising feeling that it is a different reality is great. Also, that image of the house's lights turning off with Laura's scream is an excellent and terrifying moment to end the series. I think I posted before in the thread that I like when Lynch unsettles you even if you don't understand what is going on.
Also, I think Lynch is kind of impressionistic in terms of how he conveys his themes rather than plot focused and I think there is a lot of similar scenes to try and think about and make connections, so I am not that bothered we don't have literal answers or endings to plot threads.
Take Audrey's storyline, we don't know what is happening but I think it works as a sister scene to the finale, as well Ruby's bizarre screaming at the Roadhouse. Are these characters gaining awareness of another self that exits/existed in another reality?
In fact, the more I think about it, I kind of like of how it ends at least thematically. Twin Peaks sort of feels like it is about the mysteries of evil and darkness. Throughout both series, darkness is introduced enigmatically but then we learn more about the mechanics of the Lodges, Bob, dopplegangers and so on. The culmination of this ends up in episode 17 where darkness is literally defeated by the mechanics introduced in the series. I think it is good he sort of just fucks with this and destabilises everything and leaves us with the unresolved of horror of Carrie's awakening to the trauma of Laura Palmer. Darkness and evilness in humanity cannot be literally eradicated, it is always there lurking. The goodness of Coop is also his folly, where his attempt to confront evil resolves some things but also introduces new complications and unsettling discoveries.
Also, I think Lynch is kind of impressionistic in terms of how he conveys his themes rather than plot focused and I think there is a lot of similar scenes to try and think about and make connections, so I am not that bothered we don't have literal answers or endings to plot threads.
Take Audrey's storyline, we don't know what is happening but I think it works as a sister scene to the finale, as well Ruby's bizarre screaming at the Roadhouse. Are these characters gaining awareness of another self that exits/existed in another reality?
In fact, the more I think about it, I kind of like of how it ends at least thematically. Twin Peaks sort of feels like it is about the mysteries of evil and darkness. Throughout both series, darkness is introduced enigmatically but then we learn more about the mechanics of the Lodges, Bob, dopplegangers and so on. The culmination of this ends up in episode 17 where darkness is literally defeated by the mechanics introduced in the series. I think it is good he sort of just fucks with this and destabilises everything and leaves us with the unresolved of horror of Carrie's awakening to the trauma of Laura Palmer. Darkness and evilness in humanity cannot be literally eradicated, it is always there lurking. The goodness of Coop is also his folly, where his attempt to confront evil resolves some things but also introduces new complications and unsettling discoveries.
Maybe I'll sound silly here but I kinda wished they had used Nadine to defeat BOB over One Punch Man. Nadine's super strength never had even a slight explanation, have her in One Punch Man's Role, totally smack the shit outta BOB, boom her super strength was something from the white lodge all along.
An explanation and a hilarious ending where BOB gets starched by a golden shovel. Ah well I guess.
An explanation and a hilarious ending where BOB gets starched by a golden shovel. Ah well I guess.
darkwing-buck
Member
All of us if we find out S4 is not happening.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
All I know is this has something to do with dreams. That's as far as I got.
But what am I going to do with so many telephones?
All of us if we find out S4 is not happening.
darkwing-buck
Member
lol
This has been my favorite take on the finale so far. It views the finale through a lens that results in an interpretation of Twin Peaks I'm most fond of: Not Laura as some Christ-like figure, just a girl who wasn't helped.
Death Metalist
Member
this is still me
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
All of us if we find out S4 is not happening.
Nothing about this ending makes S4 in any way realistic.
The Return in a nutshell.
this is still me
Ed and Norma were amongst the very few characters that got the ending that everyone wanted, interestingly enough.
Lys Skygge
Member
What's the story behind this?Well... if nothing else, I have to say that this Finale definitely answered ONE of the big mysteries of this season:
Well... if nothing else, I have to say that this Finale definitely answered ONE of the big mysteries of this season:
They squashed that beef
Fenderputty
Banned
An unnecessary plot contrivance
It's too bad it took about 4 too many Jacobi monologs before the money scene with Nadine happened giving ed that freedom