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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

B

benicillin

Banned
I still cannot get on-board with all the doom and gloom tragedy for Coop that everyone is interpreting from that ending, nor do I think that he inadvertantly destroyed the universe and everyone in it.

It feels pretty clear to me that he knew what he was doing because the Fireman told him what to look out for, knew how to get where he needed to to find Laura Palmer, etc. He's put off by where he ends up, and isn't sure what year it is, but that moment doesn't seem to carry the finality for me that others are seeing in it.

I also don't think that he's lost his personality or anything - we all might remember Twin Peaks folksy coffee loving Cooper because he spent a lot of the original run surrounded by Twin Peaks folksy characters, but he's never approached the Lodge or any of those supernatural elements with anything but caution and seriousness.
 
J

Joqu

Member
Levito said:
So I just rewatched it again to confirm but when epsiode 18 concludes, the light in the Palmer house actually shuts off, then there's a bright flash of light, then every light source in the shot does after. It wasn't just like a fade to black editing thing.

Log lady's message:

"Hawk. Electricity is humming. You hear it in the mountains and rivers. You see it dance among the seas and stars and glowing around the moon, but in these days the glow is dying. What will be in the darkness that remains? The Truman brothers are both true men. They are your brothers. An the others, the good ones who had been with you...Now the circle is almost complete. Watch and listen to the dream of time and space. It all comes out now, flowing like a river. That which is and is not. Hawk. Laura is the one."

The song that plays at the end of the episode was called No stars....


Did Cooper just like inadvertently destroy the universe or something?? lol
Click to expand...

I know I gave you a joke answer on twitter, but the way I see it Laura's back at the end, seemingly because that's what the Fireman wanted, so while the lights literally go out at that moment hers is still there even if it doesn't seem that way. Maybe she's supposed to be a light for Cooper at that point.

That's just me interpreting things that way on an emotional level though. I want to see some hope in that bleakness, lol.

edit: so yeah, agreed with benicillin
 
T

Tony Redgrave

Member
Reading that Kyle interview, I think I realized why the ending causes such cognitive dissonance, unlike season 2 it's just not a straightforward bad end just... bleak. If we go by a simple checkbox we get:

a) Cooper finally escaping his Lodge imprisonment
b) Cooper surviving all odds and overcoming his Douginess
c) Mr. C, Pike, the Hutchens and even killer Bob dealt with
d) Diane escaping her Naido prison
e) The Jones getting an all-new better Dougie
f) Laura Palmer being saved in a a way, less than ideal but at least getting to live

When you look at it that way it would seem that the good guys have scored high and that the ending shouldn't be so shocking but at what price? When you realize the huge token this all has caused Coop, who is pretty much a different person by the end and you hear that terrible, horrific scream Laura lets out you are overcome by the realization of the insidious evil they've had to go through and that they'll never be the same people again.

I think that beyond all space-time and dream/parallel world shenanigans the truly terrifying part is the realization that the innocent simplicity of season one and our beloved coffe-driking pie-eating Coop is never truly coming back, he's just too scarred and fragmented now, like Laura who will never be able to escape the horror she went through all her life whether she gets to deal with her evil counterpart or not.
 
D

Dalek

Member
I love that when all that shit goes down in Sheriff Truman's office, Sherrif Truman just sits there calmly at his desk the entire time.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Okay but seriously. Laura's house in Part 18 is strikingly similar to the house in Inland Empire, right?

I also wished for a more surreal moment like Rabbits, like I'm numb to surrealness after watching that. Nothing beats it.

FoolhardyTheseDouglasfirbarkbeetle.gif
 
B

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
benicillin said:
I still cannot get on-board with all the doom and gloom tragedy for Coop that everyone is interpreting from that ending, nor do I think that he inadvertantly destroyed the universe and everyone in it.

It feels pretty clear to me that he knew what he was doing because the Fireman told him what to look out for, knew how to get where he needed to to find Laura Palmer, etc. He's put off by where he ends up, and isn't sure what year it is, but that moment doesn't seem to carry the finality for me that others are seeing in it.

I also don't think that he's lost his personality or anything - we all might remember Twin Peaks folksy coffee loving Cooper because he spent a lot of the original run surrounded by Twin Peaks folksy characters, but he's never approached the Lodge or any of those supernatural elements with anything but caution and seriousness.
Click to expand...

The year comment was him desperately grasping for straws. It doesn't really matter what year it was, there should have been some trace of the Palmers.

If the Diane sex scene doesn't suggest it, the Judy cafe scene really sold him as being different. Normal cooper would have reacted to the coffee, would NOT have waved a handgun in the waitress' face. With Kyle playing so many versions, it's obviously he was doing playing a different character, someone still with an innate sense of justice, but lacking that warm compassion we've come to know and love.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
BorkBork said:
The year comment was him desperately grasping for straws. It doesn't really matter what year it was, there should have been some trace of the Palmers.

If the Diane sex scene doesn't suggest it, the Judy cafe scene really sold him as being different. Normal cooper would have reacted to the coffee, would NOT have waved a handgun in the waitress' face. With Kyle playing so many versions, it's obviously he was doing playing a different character, someone still with an innate sense of justice, but lacking that warm compassion we've come to know and love.
Click to expand...
Not to mention throwing guns in a deep fryer and saying "idk maybe this will blow up, whatever"
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Levito said:
So I wasn't the only one that was terrified that Mr. C was going to murder Andy at first right? hahaha
Click to expand...

When he put his hand into his jacket I thought that was it for Andy.
 
A

Ashby

Member
BorkBork said:
The year comment was him desperately grasping for straws. It doesn't really matter what year it was, there should have been some trace of the Palmers.

If the Diane sex scene doesn't suggest it, the Judy cafe scene really sold him as being different. Normal cooper would have reacted to the coffee, would NOT have waved a handgun in the waitress' face. With Kyle playing so many versions, it's obviously he was doing playing a different character, someone still with an innate sense of justice, but lacking that warm compassion we've come to know and love.
Click to expand...

"You didn't love her anyway." Coop was not just cherry pie and damn fine coffee, he killed people. In Judy's diner he knew things were off, he's not gonna Mmmmm! over a cup of coffee in that situation.
 
I

Intheflorsh

Banned
Audioboxer said:
Heh, I was only just reminded there of http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Mrs._Tremond's_grandson

I really should have rewatched season 1/2 before 3. I had forgot about that boy.

I'll ask it on this page in case it's missed on the last page. Does anyone know what the hell was going on with Sarah Palmer? More so the face eating version lol.
Click to expand...

It seems like the Experiment ended up inhabiting her after leaving New York. The "do you want to fuck with this" voice sounds a lot like the voice of the fake Philip Jefferies in episode 2.
 
H

HashtagLapsed

Member
When Jeffries turns the Owl Cave symbol into Infinity, then the Judy ball moves. I don't know, it is bleak. The ball will keep moving, Cooper will keep following it, infinitely.

Maybe his odd behaviour towards the end is the scars his personality has taken already.
 
A

Addi

Member
Levito said:
So I just rewatched it again to confirm but when epsiode 18 concludes, the light in the Palmer house actually shuts off, then there's a bright flash of light, then every light source in the shot does after. It wasn't just like a fade to black editing thing.

Log lady's message:

"Hawk. Electricity is humming. You hear it in the mountains and rivers. You see it dance among the seas and stars and glowing around the moon, but in these days the glow is dying. What will be in the darkness that remains? The Truman brothers are both true men. They are your brothers. An the others, the good ones who had been with you...Now the circle is almost complete. Watch and listen to the dream of time and space. It all comes out now, flowing like a river. That which is and is not. Hawk. Laura is the one."

The song that plays at the end of the episode was called No stars....


Did Cooper just like inadvertently destroy the universe or something?? lol
Click to expand...

If I'm gonna go for a more positive reading of it, I'm thinking maybe he sacrificed himself to close the link between our world and the lodges. Bob needed to be destroyed and then the mother had to be stopped from completely crossing. The link opened with the atom bomb and electricity upheld it, it ends with electricity shutting off.

I wonder if Sarah breaking the picture is when Laura was supposed to show up at her door, only she actually did, but in a different timeline. She shouts out Laura and the scream crosses dimensions. Laura was probably put in the world to suppress the thing inside of Sarah.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
I think coop knew exactly where he was going but he wasn't sure of anything other than "Laura Palmer" will be there. I think when the lights went out he emerged back to where they should be. He pulls Laura out of that dream. Coop even says he'll see them at the curtain call. I'd like to think he met with cole and Diane after the lights went out.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
Addi said:
If I'm gonna go for a more positive reading of it, I'm thinking maybe he sacrificed himself to close the link between our world and the lodges. Bob needed to be destroyed and then the mother had to be stopped from completely crossing. The link opened with the atom bomb and electricity upheld it, it ends with electricity shutting off.

I wonder if Sarah breaking the picture is when Laura was supposed to show up at her door, only she actually did, but in a different timeline. She shouts out Laura and the scream crosses dimensions. Laura was probably put in the world to suppress the thing inside of Sarah.
Click to expand...
I like this a lot

Especially since so much of Sarah this season is just sitting on the couch, maybe she's waiting?
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Intheflorsh said:
It seems like the Experiment ended up inhabiting her after leaving New York. The "do you want to fuck with this" voice sounds a lot like the voice of the fake Philip Jefferies in episode 2.
Click to expand...

Interesting theory! What about what was going on in her house when Hawk visits? The Woodsmen?

I wonder if Sarah breaking the picture is when Laura was supposed to show up at her door, only she actually did, but in a different timeline. She shouts out Laura and the scream crosses dimensions. Laura was probably put in the world to suppress the thing inside of Sarah.
Click to expand...

Awesome theory too!

Damn you Lynch. Just going to be pages of fanfiction now to connect dots.
 
D

Death Metalist

Member
I think we can all agree that the sound mix/design of The Return is unlike anything else I've ever came across when it comes to film and TV shows. It was STUPID good.

e: Julee's moment was stunning. I haven't been following the production side of things so seeing her surprised the fuck out of me.
 
D

darkwing-buck

Member
Death Metalist said:
I think we can all agree that the sound mix/design of The Return is unlike anything else I've ever came across when it comes to film and TV shows. It was STUPID good.

e: Julee's moment was stunning. I haven't been following the production side of things so seeing her surprised the fuck out of me.
Click to expand...

Lynch's sound work is always ace :)
 
J

Joqu

Member
Levito said:
You should read into Michael J. Anderson(The Arm) if you really wanna hear some shit about bad blood with the cast.
Click to expand...

Or don't, it just makes me sad. I do like the workaround and I guess it made for more MIKE which I appreciate, but Anderson's presence was still sorely missed.

:(
 
H

HoJu

Member
After the finale yesterday i started to watch some of Lynch's shorts, and I found this one on youtube which was never credited anywhere else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLVH4BXlPc4

Does anyone know if this is a scene from Inland Empire? That's his one movie i still have to watch, and if it's like that scene, then i better get on it
 
H

hughesta

Banned
Rewatching 8, I think the girl from 1956 is Sarah Palmer, if only because she says she "just knows" where the boy lives. Reminds me of her premonitions and psychic visions. Maybe the frogmoth is Judy, and maybe the Mother is something even more powerful.

edit: hoju, that scene is not from Inland Empire, but is a bonus scene that was released alongside it, using characters from it.
 
D

Dalek

Member
hughesta said:
Rewatching 8, I think the girl from 1956 is Sarah Palmer, if only because she says she "just knows" where the boy lives. Reminds me of her premonitions and psychic visions. Maybe the frogmoth is Judy, and maybe the Mother is something even more powerful.
Click to expand...

Crazy to think that we got all the way to the end and never found out more about that.
 
R

russbus64

Member
Clearly the fact that Cooper is teleported to Odessa means only one thing...


Twin Peaks takes place in the Heroes universe. Anything "supernatural" is simply the work of various superpowered humans. Bob is Skylar. Cooper has dream related powers. Everything makes sense now.
 
T

Tony Redgrave

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
I think coop knew exactly where he was going but he wasn't sure of anything other than "Laura Palmer" will be there. I think when the lights went out he emerged back to where they should be. He pulls Laura out of that dream. Coop even says he'll see them at the curtain call. I'd like to think he met with cole and Diane after the lights went out.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't think he had all the info. Like, when he was in the highway and told Diane everything would change he seemed to know where he was going but upon arrival he either forgot or got the wrong idea.

He didn't know about the Richard/Linda part and kept calling himself Dale Cooper, he expected Laura (Carrie) to remember her past and also expected Sarah/Leland to live there but it seems he didn't fully realize that he was seemingly in a parallel universe, to me it seemed more like he thought he'd just traveled in time, that's why he still asked for the year at the end.
 
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