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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
stuminus3 said:
I thought that from 16, when he wakes up and seems to know everything and directly addresses MIKE. Together with the Diane romance there's clearly things about what Agent Cooper has been up to in the last 25 years that we don't know.

Unless of course everything about Dougie/Super Cooper in S3 is just the power fantasy of some dreamer or other... :)
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It's pretty obvious that nothing happened between Cooper and Diane in the last 25 years. She was retconned into Annie's role.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
BorkBork said:
He knows. Fuck you.
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8zUyFVI.gif
 
B

BTA

Member
hughesta said:
here's my take on it
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The only thing I'd say about your take is that I don't necessarily think Audrey would know she was raped? I'm not exactly a fan of that plot point to begin with, but she'd just slept with Jack, and I feel like the assumption would just be that he was the father?

That's minor, but it stuck out to me.

KO Traveling Hobo said:
It's pretty obvious that nothing happened between Cooper and Diane in the last 25 years. She was retconned into Annie's role.
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Yeah, I'm not sure where people thinking they got together in the Lodge is coming from? (Tulpa) Diane implied they'd at least had some vaguely romantic interactions in the past; I'm not sure we're supposed to think more happened than that.
 
J

Joqu

Member
Cheebo said:
Am I the only one who sees how it is clear how Audrey's scenes tie to the end? I am surprised how no one else is talking about it.
.
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Yeah, the Audrey stuff is definitely part of the reason why I've decided the ending can be interpreted in a hopeful way. The little girl down the lane line being repeated really stands out to me as a sign of what's up in Odessa, and I believe that's Audrey's entire narrative purpose this season hence the lack of a resolution at first glance. You just put it into words way better than I ever could.

Of course we don't know what's going to happen with either of them, and that's scary. but it's not without hope to me.
 
B

BrokenBox

Member
DataStream said:
I really don't see how Cooper is anyone other than himself. Just rewatch when Laura opens the door and see his facial expression of joy and the earnestness he continues to have in explaining things to her in spite of her responses.

Before he sees who is behind the door at the Palmers when the door starts to open he shows a slight hint of optimism again before he sees it's not Sarah and directly refers to himself as Dale Cooper.

He is acting differently because he feels in his gut something is deeply wrong but when he sees glimmers of hope he lets down his guard. I'd feel pretty worried if I woke up in a room i didn't go to sleep in that someone snuck out of and found a letter from a woman with a different name to a man with a different name.
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I agree with this. His facial expression when Laura opened the door reassured me that he was still Cooper after the sex(?) scene with Diane. So when thinking of things, in my own head at the end Cooper is still Cooper, and Carrie Page realizes she's Laura.

Also, just a small thing, but doesn't Linda == Diane if we're using Naido logic?
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
KO Traveling Hobo said:
It's pretty obvious that nothing happened between Cooper and Diane in the last 25 years. She was retconned into Annie's role.
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He does ask her if she remembers everything as soon as she's revealed to be Naido in the station. Now whether or not you believe that scene occurs in any kind of reality is up for debate, but I also think Coop and the "real" Diane (whatever that means) have seen a lot on the other side that we haven't been privy to.
 
G

gagecube

Banned
I just noticed the black car coop is driving after he wakes up when Diane isn’t there, is the exact same car Mr. C got from
jack when he garages that Mercedes. Probably meaningless, but kind of interesting
 
J

Joqu

Member
Also yes, I mentioned it earlier but as Big One says I think Dougie returning in episode 18 is actually really significant. It could have been placed anywhere in 17, but it wasn't. I really think it's a sign that whatever Cooper did, he did not destroy the original Twin Peaks.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
He does ask her if she remembers everything as soon as she's revealed to be Naido in the station. Now whether or not you believe that scene occurs in any kind of reality is up for debate, but I also think Coop and the "real" Diane (whatever that means) have seen a lot on the other side that we haven't been privy to.
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Diane was trapped as Naido. I don't remember his exact tone, but I am pretty sure he was referencing whatever plan he cooked up with Briggs and the squad.

I mean, the original finale obviously wasn't referring to Diane when it sang about reuniting under the sycamore trees. It was about Annie. And yet Diane is the one who shows up like she was always supposed to be there.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Joqu said:
Also yes, I mentioned it earlier but as Big One says I think Dougie returning in episode 18 is actually really significant. It could have been placed anywhere in 17, but it wasn't. I really think it's a sign that whatever Cooper did, he did not destroy the original Twin Peaks.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think it's significant it occurs separately from the over the top scenes in 17
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
Chromatics’ Johnny Jewel Recorded Roughly 57 Hours of Music for “Twin Peaks”

Chromatics’ Johnny Jewel was heavily involved in the music process for “Twin Peaks: The Return.” In a new interview, he detailed just how much he produced for director David Lynch. “I felt compelled to keep recording music and a series of improvisations,” he told Consequence of Sound. “I think I sent them about 57 hours of stuff. In the end, I recorded over 20 albums. I tried to keep it judicious. I knew the show was 18 hours, so I figured, well, 57 hours of music isn’t a big deal.” While Lynch didn’t use it all, he “got ears on it.” Chromatics performed multiple times over the course of the third season, including their singles “Shadow” and “Saturday.” They also backed Julee Cruise during the penultimate episode.

https://pitchfork.com/news/chromati...of-music-for-twin-peaks/?mbid=social_facebook
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:(
 
B

Buttonbasher

Member
I'm going to repost this because it's bugging me.

Cooper knew Annie for all of like a week or two, if that. He's known Diane for years through the bureau, and it's been said that there was at least one romantic night, preceding Mr C's assault. I'm surprised to see so many people shocked about their love.

I get that Annie had some Lodge appearances in the Season 2 finale, but to assume that their week or two in Twin Peaks was enough for Annie to still be consumed by it after 25 years doesn't seem something realistic.

A throw away line about where she's at would have been fine, but I guess I don't miss its absence.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
KO Traveling Hobo said:
Diane was trapped as Naido. I don't remember his exact tone, but I am pretty sure he was referencing whatever plan he cooked up with Briggs and the squad.

I mean, the original finale obviously wasn't referring to Diane when it sang about reuniting under the sycamore trees. It was about Annie. And yet Diane is the one who shows up like she was always supposed to be there.
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Well going by the show it seems like only Coop, Briggs, Cole and a disembodied Jeffries knew about that so idk. Possible Coop could've told Diane as well, sure.

But considering Coop clearly comes back with a lot of answers (hell, he even knows Freddie), and Diane as Naido had some kind of knowledge of things despite being trapped (and the ability to sense the Mother in Part 3 and Mr. C's approach/arrival), I'm putting my money on +100 Knowledge points during the 25 year gap.
 
S

SmiteOfHand

Member
Easy_D said:
So what the heck was with Jumping Man rushing down the stairs after Cooper and MIKE went inside the door?
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Also when they go out to the hotel courtyard they look across to the room Mr. C went to talk to Phillip but instead turn and walk down a passage to get to him.
 
C

Courage

Member
Also, let's not forget Cooper communicated with Diane on a daily basis throughout the original run. Maybe we never got to see her but I wouldn't be surprised if they were intimate with each other then. There's also this scene.


For me personally it also works on a metatextual level, with MacLachlan and Dern being Lynch's two most prominent actors in his work, so them starting out as this naive couple chicken walking in Blue Velvet maturing in Lynch's mind to the solemn couple fucking in a grimy ass motel we saw last night is fulfilling in some weird, Lynchian way.
 
J

Joqu

Member
Buttonbasher said:
I'm going to repost this because it's bugging me.

Cooper knew Annie for all of like a week or two, if that. He's known Diane for years through the bureau, and it's been said that there was at least one romantic night, preceding Mr C's assault. I'm surprised to see so many people shocked about their love.

I get that Annie had some Lodge appearances in the Season 2 finale, but to assume that their week or two in Twin Peaks was enough for Annie to still be consumed by it after 25 years doesn't seem something realistic.

A throw away line about where she's at would have been fine, but I guess I don't miss its absence.
Click to expand...

I think it makes a whole lot of sense from Annie's perspective for sure, if she turned out okay like doctor Hayward said she would, then I have to imagine she moved on years ago. I just find it really strange that Cooper never brings her up after he returns, from his perspective things are different. But maybe he realizes it isn't meant to be at that point.
 
B

Buttonbasher

Member
Courage said:
Also, let's not forget Cooper communicated with Diane on a daily basis throughout the original run. Maybe we never got to see her but I wouldn't be surprised if they were intimate with each other then. There's also this scene.
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This. It's as if people were surprised those characters knew each other at all, which is baffling because her presence is all over the original series, through his correspondence.
 
A

Ashby

Member
Courage said:
Also, let's not forget Cooper communicated with Diane on a daily basis throughout the original run. Maybe we never got to see her but I wouldn't be surprised if they were intimate with each other then. There's also this scene.


For me personally it also works on a metatextual level, with MacLachlan and Dern being Lynch's two most prominent actors in his work, so them starting out as this naive couple chicken walking in Blue Velvet to the solemn couple fucking in a grimy ass motel we saw last night is fulfilling in some weird, Lynchian way.
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Always thought Coop was kind of a dick in this scene and he talked in the same manner to Diane in the hotel room, off-puttingly demanding.
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
hughesta said:
I'm sure it'll all be released, right after PB2
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;______;

"Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel Audrey... and Annie...even Harry. Laura I've lost...Cooper I've lost... won't stop hurting...It's like they're all still there. You feel it, too, don't you? I'm gonna make Lynch give back our past."
 
L

Levito

Banned
Buttonbasher said:
I'm going to repost this because it's bugging me.

Cooper knew Annie for all of like a week or two, if that. He's known Diane for years through the bureau, and it's been said that there was at least one romantic night, preceding Mr C's assault. I'm surprised to see so many people shocked about their love.

I get that Annie had some Lodge appearances in the Season 2 finale, but to assume that their week or two in Twin Peaks was enough for Annie to still be consumed by it after 25 years doesn't seem something realistic.

A throw away line about where she's at would have been fine, but I guess I don't miss its absence.
Click to expand...

I kinda hate to say it but I think Annie was just left by the wayside, pretty much like Donna. I know Annie got 1 mention in The Return but it's so weird that she's so absent.
 
T

traveler

Not Wario
Annie always felt weird to me anyways, like an inorganic addition to the show.

Cooper is too noble to sleep with Audrey because of her age and his job, but Annie is somehow acceptable.... why? A lot of season 2 feels inauthentic because of factors external to the show.
 
L

Levito

Banned
traveler said:
Annie always felt weird to me anyways, like an inorganic addition to the show.

Cooper is too noble to sleep with Audrey because of her age and his job, but Annie is somehow acceptable.... why? A lot of season 2 feels inauthentic because of factors external to the show.
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I believe Kyle was the biggest reason Annie was written into the show. He didn't think Cooper would start a relationship with a high schooler.
 
C

cb1115

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
traveler said:
Annie always felt weird to me anyways, like an inorganic addition to the show.

Cooper is too noble to sleep with Audrey because of her age and his job, but Annie is somehow acceptable.... why? A lot of season 2 feels inauthentic because of factors external to the show.
Click to expand...

that's partially why i was surprised Audrey wasn't the one waiting for him at Glastonbury Grove. her "waking up" at the end of 16 seemed to imply she would play a major role in the finale. it also would've made the RichardCoop stuff even weirder.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
A

Ashby

Member
traveler said:
Annie always felt weird to me anyways, like an inorganic addition to the show.

Cooper is too noble to sleep with Audrey because of her age and his job, but Annie is somehow acceptable.... why? A lot of season 2 feels inauthentic because of factors external to the show.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but she was really hot and kinda weird.
 
H

hughesta

Banned
jett said:
Where IS Audrey, physically?
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somewhere where you fall asleep standing up looking into a mirror.

fwiw I don't think the scene of Audrey waking up is meant to be taken literally. She's staring into a mirror, and mirrors show you reflections of yourself. She spent all this time dreaming of something better and has to immediately face the cold harsh reality of who she really is and what she's really been through, the instant after snapping out of her dream. Perhaps it was too much for her and she fell right back into it after 16 ends.
 
K

kevin1025

Banned
I think she's in a world where she's forced to relive The Return forevermore, and so she must dance and hope to one day make it to the Roadhouse for realsies.
 
S

sappyday

Member
Dale Cooper has become pretty much my favorite character in any piece of media. He was already great with just season 1 & 2 but after everything he went through in The Return, he's been elevated to the top. Just Dougie Coop alone is top ten tv characters material.
 
O

Omadahl

Banned
I just finished watching the finale with my wife. She's kind of pissed off but I'm really satisfied. Anyone going into this hoping for a concrete conclusion was delusional.
 
J

jetpacks was yes

Member
Wow, so I finally watched the finale. I've been on board with this season the whole time, and I was expecting the unexpected, but man... that just left me feeling so dead inside. I realize that was probably the intention, but what the hell David Lynch.

Maybe I'll warm up to it as I process it some more but it has really left me with an empty feeling.
 
L

Linkin112

Member
With Cooper basically becoming what Jeffries was in FWWM in this finale, I kinda wish the final line Cooper said was "HELL GOD BABY DAMN NO" instead of "What year is this?"
 
J

jett

D-Member
jetpacks was yes said:
Wow, so I finally watched the finale. I've been on board with this season the whole time, and I was expecting the unexpected, but man... that just left me feeling so dead inside. I realize that was probably the intention, but what the hell David Lynch.

Maybe I'll warm up to it as I process it some more but it has really left me with an empty feeling.
Click to expand...

It somehow becomes better when you start reading fan theories LOL.

It has become intensely creepy for me.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Listening to Chromatics' Shadow...

You're in the water
I'm standing on the shore

...

Still thinking that I hear your voice
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?

...

At night I'm driving in your car
Pretending that we'll leave this town
We're watching all the street lights fade
And now you're just a stranger's dream
I took your picture from the frame
And now you're nothing like you seem
Your shadow fell like last night's rain

...

For the last time
For the last time
For the last time
For the last time

...

David Lynch, you motherfucker you!
 
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